Impossible to inverse telecine my Canon DV camera files?

[fluor]

I've spent two days now using various software to try storing my DV material to my computer. I instantly discovered that I needed to de-interlace the movie, but the end-result is "ghosted". Basically, the output sucks. I do NOT want this for TV output! I want this to be saved as Xvid, so i can share my camera movies with my parents and family. (that eliminates any player filters, as it's like impossible to talk all family members into using that)

I have tried like everything (Virtualdub with dozens of settings, MS Movie Maker, Sony Vegas 6, Adobe Premiere Pro), and I end up with the most explaining message (from Microsoft Media Encoder): This source does not have a frame rate of 30 fps. Therefore, it is not possible to apply the inverse telecine filter to the source.

My camera is: Canon MV700 . I'm not so "good" in this stuff, but it seems to me that the camera produces 24fps or something like that..

Well what do I do?

I've uploaded a original clip from my camera (using WinDV (http://windv.mourek.cz/) capture tool).. Somebody please check it out, and see if you can fix my problem!

Download: http://home.no/bluesector/canon_mv700.avi (5,6MB)

[scharfis_brain]

This is pure interlaced PAL Video. so there is no IVTC possible.
also, IVTC is only possible with hard-telecined NTSC-Film.

Please do NOT deinterlace it. Leave it interlaced.
Deinterlacing will destroy image resolution and motion fluidity.

[fluor]

but what do I do? it looks awful when I try play that canon_mv700.avi on my screen. I would like to play it on my computer (mind you: I do NOT want this for TV output).

I might add that when I try to use AVIsynth on this one, it fails with the error: "AVISource: couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dvdsd". This was also a problem in Virtualdub 1.5.X (dunno what version I had). But when I upgraded to the latest Virtualdub, the avi-file read fine.

[Guest]

Install a freeware DV codec. Here is one:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94458

Then use one of the many available Avisynth deinterlacers.

[fluor]

Thanks for the codec. I found the binary codec at http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida016.zip This is another step on my way to make a de-interlaced movie.. (without ghosting!)

I also experienced a little more with virtualdub filters. I found that the filter "Deinterlace MAP" (downloadable from http://webjory.tripod.com/vb/ ) was the best for me. However it seemed to create a rapid drop in framerate, thus I cannot live with that!

What do I do now? Anybody have any Avisynth script to suggest?

[Guest]

Get the Decomb package and try FieldDeinterlace(blend=false). There are others that do not blend, too. Let's try this one first because I know it well and we can find out if we are talking about the same thing when you say "blending". So:

loadplugin("decomb.dll")
avisource("yourfile.avi")
fielddeinterlace(blend=false)

[fluor]

Thanks for your help, neuron2, but that didnt help at all. :(

I read the guide at http://www.100fps.com/ (VERY interesting read) and I ended up with separating and then joining and stuff like that. Well the result still doesnt look good enough, which make me wonder if I should just resize the movie ( 720x576->384x288 ) which seem to work ok. However I think I'm loosing something there, but I'm not sure...

Still waiting for a way to automate this...

[Guest]

Did you try my script? If not, why not? If so, what were the results?

[fluor]

yes i tested. it wont work. why dont you just try it yourself? download the clip and try?

[communist]

However it seemed to create a rapid drop in framerate, thus I cannot live with that!
Thats what one type of deinterlacers do - create 25 (29.xxx) frames from 50 (59.xxx) fields.
which make me wonder if I should just resize the movie ( 720x576->384x288 ) which seem to work ok. However I think I'm loosing something there, but I'm not sure...
You're throwing away 50% of temporal resolution ("motion fluidity"). If you want a 50 / 60 fps encode apply some Bob deinterlacer.
I do NOT want this for TV output! I want this to be saved as Xvid, so i can share my camera movies with my parents and family. (that eliminates any player filters, as it's like impossible to talk all family members into using that)
If you want to encode to xvid then they will have to have xvid or any other mpeg4 decoder installed. The easiest way would be to encode to a 50/60 fps MPEG1 file which will play just about everywhere and look fluid (no jerky motion / ghosting / whatever). You could aswell encode it interlaced to XviD and have it deinterlaced on playback with ffdshow or that experimental dshow decoder that was flying around here somewhere.

[Guest]

yes i tested. it wont work. why dont you just try it yourself? download the clip and try? Try adding the missing color space convert call:

loadplugin("decomb.dll")
avisource("test.avi")
converttoyuy2(interlaced=true)
fielddeinterlace(blend=false)

That works fine for me. Of course it generates 29.97fps. If you want double rate, you'll need a bobbing deinterlacer.

Please try to be more explicit than "it won't work" next time. Thank you.

[fluor]

thanks for very informative answers, both of you!
what's the point of creating 50fps movie? will that take more use of the original's "motion fluidity"?

If' so, how do I do that in avisynth?

[communist]

thanks for very informative answers, both of you!
what's the point of creating 50fps movie? will that take more use of the original's "motion fluidity"?

If' so, how do I do that in avisynth?
Since you said you read the information on 100fps.com you should know that PAL Video consists of 50 fields which are weaved together to 25 frames. However each one contains motion and hence when you discard 50% of it you'll get reduced temporal resolution ('normal' deinterlacer).
The other option is to convert those 50 fields into frames - giving you full temporal resolution.
'Normal Deinterlacer'
AviSource("canon_mv700.avi")
LeakKernelDeint(order=0, threshold= 5) #or any other deinterlacer you prefer
-> 50 fields -> 25 progressive frames.

Bob Deinterlacer
AviSource("canon_mv700.avi")
LeakKernelBob(order=0, threshold= 5) #or any other Bob deinterlacer you prefer
-> 50 fields -> 50 progressive frames.

You can obtain LeakKernelDeint from here (http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/).

[scharfis_brain]

Better results can be achieved using Tdeint() especially with short shutter speeds, the artifact protection of tdeint may become important.

and for experiments I like to advertise mvbob().
it tries to recreate the lost image information from the previous and next frame relative to the current one.
But it is VERY CPU- and RAM demanding and may also show up some bugs.

[fluor]

thanks communist! LeakKernelBob was just fantastic! finally a watchable movie!
I don't care if the fps is 50 or 25, since my monitor, and most other monitors, run above 50hz anyways! thanks!

[scharfis_brain]

I don't care if the fps is 50 or 25, since my monitor, and most other monitors, run above 50hz anyways! thanks!

running a Monitor above 50Hz is not the only condition needed to be fullfilled!
For smooth video, the refreshrate needs to be a multiple of the framerate.
So for 25fps video 75 and 100 Hertz are okay
and for 50fps video only 100 Hertz is okay.

other refresh rates will cause jerkyness.

[fluor]

but what about sound?

when i use this:
Loadplugin("LeakKernelDeint.dll")
AVISource("movie.avi")
LeakKernelBob(order=0, threshold= 5)

i get no sound! what do i do wrong now?

[Guest]

Use your DV editor software (or the latest VirtualDub) to save the audio to a WAV file. Then use this script:

Loadplugin("LeakKernelDeint.dll")
AVISource("movie.avi")
video=LeakKernelBob(order=0, threshold= 5)
audio=WAVSource("audio.wav")
AudioDub(video,audio)

DirectShowSource() can also read the audio, so you can avoid saving a WAV that way. Please refer to the Avisynth documentation.

[fluor]

I would just like to post this for future reference for any other person with this problem..

this is for the Canon MV700 camera capture:
This "guide" will create the best possible viewing pleasure if you plan on creating a movie for local playback.

1. Rip the movie using any tool to DV-AVI. I used Microsoft Movie Maker (included in XP), since it stores dates of clips, and it also rewinds and stops tape automatically.

2. Download AviSynth (from doom9.org homepage) and the LeakKernelDeint plugin (http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/) (place it in AviSynthPlugins folder). You also need the freeware DV input filter so you can actually open the AVI: (http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida016.zip)

4. save the following script to c:\avisynthscript.avs


dllDir = "c:\Program Files\GordianKnot\AviSynthPlugins\"
Loadplugin(dllDir + "LeakKernelDeint.dll")
video=AviSource("c:\movie.avi")
audio=DirectShowSource("c:\movie.avi", video=false)
AudioDub(video,audio)
LeakKernelBob(order=0, threshold= 5) # will create 50fps movie


5. Open the avisynthscript.avs in Virtualdub (File > Open) and select compression for both audio and video (I use the default XVID setting, and I use 128kbps mp3 sound.. )


Note: If you would like 25fps instead, use "LeakKernelDeint(order=0, threshold= 5)" instead of the Bob.

[Guest]

I would just like to post this for future reference for any other person with this problem.. Why do you install GordianKnot when you appear to not be using it?

[fluor]

uh.. because it includes all the stuff for avisynth? okay i will edit the post