x264-MP4 that is playable in Quicktime 7, completely via CLI!

[Zak Kingston]

Hi there,

In many threads of this forum I've read about creating mp4-files with x264 that are playable in Quicktime 7. Some guys seem to have found a solution already, but I've never seen a complete "workflow". So, I'd like to publish mine. It works entirely via Windows command-line. Basic video is a dv-avi.

What is needed:

-x264.exe (I've used the latest build 270)
-faac.exe for the sound (version 1.24.1)
-avi2wavcmd.exe (to create an intermediate wav-file)
-mp4creator.exe (to mux, version 1.2.8)
-avisynth (for x264 input)

What to do:

1. Prepare an avs-file as our input with the following code:

avisource("c:\INPUTFILE.avi")
ConvertToYV12()


2. Create a batch file with these parameters:


avi2wavcmd c:\INPUTFILE.avi c:\sound_temp.wav

faac -q 75 -c 32000 --mpeg-vers 4 -o c:\sound_done.aac c:\sound_temp.wav

x264.exe -q 30 --bitrate 650 -I 250 -i 25 --bframes 0 --no-b-adapt -r 5 -w --analyse all --subme 6 --no-psnr --progress --fps 25 -o "c:\raw.264" "c:\INPUTSCRIPT.avs" 720x576

mp4creator -c c:\raw.264 -rate=25 c:\h264.mp4
mp4creator -c c:\sound_done.aac -aac-profile=4 -hint -interleave c:\h264.mp4
mp4creator -optimize c:\h264.mp4
mp4creator -list c:\h264.mp4


That's it. Unfortunately due to the lack of money I couldn't test it on a Mac - maybe you can?

Bugs:

- Hinting doesn't work yet (If I do so, mp4creator produces a huge and worthless file)
- I can't mux with mp4box, if I try it always says "h264-file is truncated"

I hope you have some suggestions for me!

[DeeGee]

Hmm... I myself would do things little bit different, but basically I need AAC-audio (non HE), and H.264 with no b-frames, no psnr, no 8x8dct and no adaptive b-frame desicion?

[edit] And what's with the raw outputs? At least x264 can output nice .mp4 which should work with mp4box just fine (although raw h.264 should too).

[Sirber]

Could you explain more what avi2wavcmd does?

[DeeGee]

Seems like program to extract the audio. I'd myself use mplayer as i have it already installed with "mplayer -ao pcm -vo null input.avi".

[SeeMoreDigital]

Urgh....

If you're interested, I've just finished creating a whole (preliminary) web site full of TV commercials for use with QuickTime7 player. All have been generated in X264 (no B-VOP etc, etc) with AAC-HE audio. They've even be re-muxed from .MP4 to .MOV, so they can stream better for people with 512Kbps ISP connections or higher...

Here, please, see what you think: -

http://www.stuartgraham.homechoice.co.uk/


Cheers

[madoka]

This is what I use:x264 -r 5 -A p8x8,b8x8,i4x4 -w --me umh -m 6B-frames will work only if the clip is short (~2000 frames or so). I'm guessing that's a bug. Also, for some reason the mp4 output from x264 won't play unless I re-mux it with mp4box.

For AAC audio, I just use iTunes. QT7 doesn't seem to support mp3-in-mp4. Moreover, it'll bork if there are any unsupported streams in the mp4 (for example, TTXT), instead of just ignoring them.

Maybe the Mac version is more capable and less buggy...

[Sharktooth]

I wonder why ppl still use QT...

[SeeMoreDigital]

I wonder why ppl still use QT...For me, the choice is simple... The QuickTime player looks very slick and uncluttered when incorporated into web pages, the .MOV is very stream flexible, it's Win and Mac OS compatible, and it works very well indeed :D


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

... and it's proprietary ...

[SeeMoreDigital]

... and it's proprietary ... If somebody else can create a web page compatible player that looks and works as well as QT7, I'll give it a try with pleasure ;)


Cheers

[nm]

If somebody else can create a web page compatible player that looks and works as well as QT7, I'll give it a try with pleasure ;)

Since QT7 is not available on Linux, people have already come up with something better:
http://mplayerplug-in.sourceforge.net/

Mplayer works quite well on Windows and Mac OS X, so I'd imagine the piece of code
required to make a browser plugin for IE and Safari would not be a huge deal.
Of course, since mplayer lacks corporate support and MPEG4 licences, it would
not catch on among the ordinary people, but at least the tinkerers would have
decent video playback in their browsers.

[Sharktooth]

If somebody else can create a web page compatible player that looks and works as well as QT7, I'll give it a try with pleasure ;)


Cheers
VLC or Mplayer web plugin.

[SeeMoreDigital]

VLC or Mplayer web plugin.Do you know whether the VLC or Mplayer plug-ins display the video player in the same way as QuickTime ie: within the web page. Or do they launch a separate player?


Cheers

[nm]

Oh, I forgot the news about the Google Video Viewer (http://video.google.com/) based on VLC. It is designed to only work with the Google Video service, but Jon Johansen already hacked the player to work generally.
See http://www.pcworld.com/resource/article/0,aid,121653,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp and Jon's page: http://www.nanocrew.net/?p=114 for more detail.

And yes, it displays the video within the browser window. I don't know about fullscreen capabilities though. At least the mplayer plug-in allows one to zoom the video to full screen which I think is great (although personally I prefer command line to browser plugins :)

[Zak Kingston]

well, well...just want to reply...

Urgh....


Is it so bad ;) Your examples work quite well on my side.

But I'd like to know if you're able to produce an aac HE via command-line...and were you able to hint the files? And how did you put it into a .mov-container? So many questions ;)

-avi2wav2cmd is indeed a tool that just extracts an uncompressed wav-file out of an avi. This step wouldn't be necessary if I'd know how to create an aac directly of an avi-sound...you know a solution?

- the x264 parameter -A p8x8,b8x8,i4x4 doesn't work on my side...it does well on Mac, but on PC the video is stuttering...same with using b-frames...but quality is still great, in my opinion

- I tried exporting an mp4 from x264 and mux it with mp4box...it worked, but the file is not playable in qt7, not even in vlc...

[Doom9]

But I'd like to know if you're able to produce an aac HE via command-line.how about BeSweet using the Nero DLLs?

if I'd know how to create an aac directly of an avi-soundhow about besweet again?

[Zak Kingston]

No success with encoding via BeSweet...the aac-file was playable in Winamp, but not with QT...

And I wanted to avoid proprietary software like nero.

For straight avi-aac-converting in BeSweet I tried the VOBInput.dll, but it also didn't work...BeSweet just says that it cannot load the input file...but it should work with avi's shouldn't it?

But thanks anyway!

[bond]

it makes no sense to use he-aac when you aim at playing the file in qt, as qt cant decode the sbr part -> crappy quality

[Doom9]

And I wanted to avoid proprietary software like nero.Uh, and QT is open source or what? In many ways QT is a lot worse than what Nero offers.

[Zak Kingston]

Well, it's for the production part...if the published file is done using open source-soft, I'm satisfied. The player is the problem of the user. But the only spreaded player right now is Quicktime 7, and it will be even more in the future. So I have to take care to do the right settings that the file is playable in Quicktime.

I'd be glad, too, if one day everybody has VLC as the default player. But I'm afraid that won't happen so soon.

Sorry, I didn't know that QT isn't able to decode AAC HE.

Cheers!

[travisbell]

I wonder why ppl still use QT...

In my opinion cross player compatibilty is probably one of the most important things we need to focus on right now. I thought the days of needing "this" player or "that" player to play our videos was over. Divx/Xvid did a great job at creating a simple 1-click executable that once installed would allow these files to be played in your favorite player (whether it be QT, WMP, Real...) I thought we were advancing from there to have out of box support for these new codecs. Microsoft will probably never conform to this way of thinking (atleast with open source technologies like x264), but guess what? The second most used player on the planet did. Isn't that a good thing? Wouldn't it be amazing if a x264 video I create with MeGUI would play on my dad's PowerBook completely untouched? Or my mom's Windows computer at work?

Power users like us may choose to use another player, I use VLC. I do however, see the reason this is important. We need to start uniting to create the most compatible files as possible. This goes for way more than just videos, but music, web content, hardware etc...

That anyways, in my opinion is the more important thing going on here.


Cheers!!!!

[bond]

In my opinion cross player compatibilty is probably one of the most important things we need to focus on right now.first step for achieving that: use standardised formats all the way:
for avc this means .mpg or .mp4

I thought the days of needing "this" player or "that" player to play our videos was over.imho it will never be over, simply because the big player manufacturers, especially m$, have an interest in getting the users to use their stuff. broad interoperability is not wanted in the internet video business imho

but this also shows the main problem: even if you have a standardised way of creating avc files (and i see avc-in-mp4 as this), there is still the problem of players supporting it
i mean avc-in-mp4 is already very widely supported, still if a player provider doesnt want to support a format (by default) you can have the best format existing and it still will not be supported

Divx/Xvid did a great job at creating a simple 1-click executable that once installed would allow these files to be played in your favorite player (whether it be QT, WMP, Real...)xvid/divx provides tools for being able to play divx/xvid .avi files in realplayer and qt? have a look again, definitely not xvid

Wouldn't it be amazing if a x264 video I create with MeGUI would play on my dad's PowerBook completely untouched? Or my mom's Windows computer at work?qt7 supports avc+aac-in-mp4 by default. there is only a bug in qt7 preventing you to play such files created with x264cli

of course x264-in-avi will never play in qt7

[travisbell]

first step for achieving that: use standardised formats all the way: for avc this means .mpg or .mp4

I completely agree.



xvid/divx provides tools for being able to play divx/xvid .avi files in realplayer and qt? have a look again, definitely not xvid

Maybe not Xvid, but what I mean more specifiaclly regarding Divx/Xvid is that the two file formats are more or less, completely compatible with each other. I am an Apple user. I installed the Divx codecs which first, let Divx files pay in Quicktime. It also enabled Xvid playback. That is what I was getting at.



qt7 supports avc+aac-in-mp4 by default. there is only a bug in qt7 preventing you to play such files created with x264cli

I didn't realize the dev team was that close to having them work natively. That is great news to hear!



of course x264-in-avi will never play in qt7

I think the days of avi are numbered. Once we start moving into AVC, everything will be contained in either .mp4 or .mpg like you said above.


Cheers!

[bond]

Maybe not Xvid, but what I mean more specifiaclly regarding Divx/Xvid is that the two file formats are more or less, completely compatible with each other. I am an Apple user. I installed the Divx codecs which first, let Divx files pay in Quicktime. It also enabled Xvid playback. That is what I was getting at.hehe funny that divx is supporting playback of its competitor, xvid, in qt :D

btw both divx and xvid use the .avi container, still both are stored differently in avi so they are strictly speaking not 100% the same (still both have an extra support for the other codec included)

[SeeMoreDigital]

it makes no sense to use he-aac when you aim at playing the file in qt, as qt cant decode the sbr part -> crappy qualityI would not totally agree with this.

AAC-HE audio plays fine in QT7, even though it can't decode the SBR element.

I can however confirm that Nero's filters can fully decode AAC-HE audio in .MOV, and their ShowTime player even correctly flags the audio stream: -

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9359/aacheinmov8bb.png


Cheers

[bond]

AAC-HE audio plays fine in QT7, even though it can't decode the SBR element.as you know he-aac is backwards compatible, so you can play an he-aac stream with every aac decoder, still with crappy quality
so a normal 64kbps aac stream will sound better than a he-aac stream at 64kbps decoded with a normal aac decoder

therefore it makes no sense to encode with he-aac when you want to play the stream in qt (or with any other aac decoder not handling sbr)

[Doom9]

But the only spreaded player right now is Quicktime 7uhh.. I dare say that more people have WMP and the Realplayer installed.. except for movie trailers QT has never catched on and never will. What you say only applies to Mac and that's a small percentage of the whole market. I think most people play AVC via the Nero filter, followed by ffdshow. And you mention publishing.. if you're going to spread content, you'll have to pay license fees so using a commercial soft all the way works to your benefit. Licensing x264 for commercial use could prove to be rather complicated.

[Zak Kingston]

Well, we can talk on for hours that way...of course I meant for H264-based content, what else should be my reason to post this thread ??! Of course Windows Media and Real are more spreaded. But Windows Media will probably never support 264, and Real...who knows. So Quicktime remains the only possibility in my opinion, by the way I see H264 as it's last chance. Just my 2 cent...

I have to study the licensing stuff for H264 content. It's an interesting point, I guess I'll write an e-mail to Via.

I don't even see ANY commercial soft providing the flexibility of a command-line to produce H264-content right now.

I don't believe that most of the people watch H264 via Nero. Maybe some of the "pro's" do, but the average user will never install a CD-burning-suite to watch a video. This solution is also not capable of streaming.

[SeeMoreDigital]

as you know he-aac is backwards compatible, so you can play an he-aac stream with every aac decoder, still with crappy quality
so a normal 64kbps aac stream will sound better than a he-aac stream at 64kbps decoded with a normal aac decoder

therefore it makes no sense to encode with he-aac when you want to play the stream in qt (or with any other aac decoder not handling sbr)But the point is bond... it's not that crap a quality!

In reality 2Ch AAC-HE at say 64Kbps, sounds much better than 2Ch AAC-LC at 64Kbps, even if the SBR element can't be decoded properly.

But, if the SBR element is preserved (in either .MP4 or .MOV) it can be decoded correctly in other decoders/players and sound better than ever!


Cheers

EDIT: Bond: Yes you are right AAC-LC at 64Kbps does sound better than AAC-HE at 64Kbps - without the SBR element... However if you increase the bit-rate to say 96Kbps the differences between the two are hardly noticable. It might be interesting to carry out an "blind-test" at 128Kbps...

[bond]

In reality 2Ch AAC-HE at say 64Kbps, sounds much better than 2Ch AAC-LC at 64Kbps, even if the SBR element can't be decoded properly. i doubt it, maybe its the well known effect of "it sounds better as i assume it should sound better"
double blind abx listening tests are needed

also he-aac is propably using 22100hz whereas normally the encoder would use something like 32khz for getting the best quality

there simply is no point in decoding he-aac on a normal aac decoder, if you want to do that you could also simply resample to 22100hz with lc-aac, cause thats exactly what the he-aac is for the aac decoder: lc-aac with 22100hz

[Sputnik776]

Just a few thoughts...

If you had to choose between WMP and QTx you'd choose Quicktime right? Becuase when it all comes down to it.. those 2 are the only free players with any kind of market penetration. Quicktime continues to grow it's install base due to iTunes. It plays back lots of great formats that can be encoded with great software like x264 and mencoder. AAC and h.264 will grow as QT7 grows. Yea it has limitations but people here are already finding great workflow workarounds. And if Apple wakes up and includes more playback support it will be even better.

I for one want to be able to put videos out on the net and have anyone be able to play it with minimal tech support needed on my end. Telling them to download the latest build of ffdshow, VLC, or some obscure partially supported open-source app isn't really a comfortable option... Nor should it be for anyone looking to mass distribute content.

[Zak Kingston]

Totally agree...and think about it, Quicktime 7 for Windows is just a "public preview"...things will be working even better in a few weeks (I hope so).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yep... as media player/encoders go, QT7 is rather flexible :)

But one of the things I don't understand is why Apple have not (at the very least) offered AAC-HE decoding.


Cheers

[neo75903]

hmm been playing with Quicktime for a few days,
saw some hd samples on their website.
looks very good, only, why is QT so cpu hungy?
it runs over 60% cpu usage on my dual, while vlc was using around 30%???

[MOCKBA]

Guys,
I cannot get x.264 to work with QT. I am Using GordianKnot and mux with mp4creator or YAMB. mp4creator complains with "Can't make ISMA compliant when file contains AVC1" when I hint tracks, but otherwise everything looks OK, alas QT just hangs while opening the file.

Is it B-frames that QT doesn't like? (I used all default x.264 settings from Doom9 x.264 guide in GK X.264 Advanced pop-up)

[Zak Kingston]

Yeah, that was exactly my problem. I'd suggest that you download a new version of mp4box (GPAC 0.3), and if you mux with that using the -hint and -isma parameter, hinting & streaming via Darwin works.

[bond]

Guys,
I cannot get x.264 to work with QT. I am Using GordianKnot and mux with mp4creator or YAMB. mp4creator complains with "Can't make ISMA compliant when file contains AVC1" when I hint tracks, but otherwise everything looks OK, alas QT just hangs while opening the file.are you muxing the raw stream or the .avi?

[MOCKBA]

are you muxing the raw stream or the .avi?
I am muxing raw streams and with mp4box (GPAC 0.3) it doesn't work for me. However, I figured out how to make QT open my movies. The problem apparently was that with mp4box and by default with mp4creator muxed AAC is not what QT could swallow. Muxing with mp4creator with -aac-profile=4 does the trick, but I could only play audio and video get stuck. Is it because of the B-frames or am I encoding it wrong?

[bond]

I am muxing raw streams and with mp4box (GPAC 0.3) it doesn't work for me. However, I figured out how to make QT open my movies. The problem apparently was that with mp4box and by default with mp4creator muxed AAC is not what QT could swallow. Muxing with mp4creator with -aac-profile=4 does the trick, but I could only play audio and video get stuck. Is it because of the B-frames or am I encoding it wrong?indeed qt only handles mpeg-4 aac and not mpeg-2 aac (mpeg-2 aac is the same as mpeg-4 aac, but they are differently signalled in .mp4 and apple is too dumb to support both. the same way as ttxt is exactly the same in .3gp as in .mp4, but still they only support it when being in .3gp :rolleyes: )

about the video: qt7 should be able to play main profile avc video, which excludes cqm, i8x8, 8x8dct, lossless
make sure these are disabled when encoding
maybe it also has problems with other funky tools as b-references/pyramid or weighted biprediction, dunno

[Zak Kingston]

I'm using this command-line, works with Quicktime in my case:

x264.exe -q 30 --bitrate XXX -I 250 -i 25 --bframes 0 --no-b-adapt -r 5 -w --analyse all --subme 6 --no-psnr --progress --fps 25 -o "X:\PATH\raw.264" "X:\PATH\video.avs" 384x288

The MPEG-4 header problem in AAC-files can be fixed by

- using faac with the --mpeg-vers 4 parameter or

- using nero_fends

aacenc32.exe -cbr 16 -mono -notag -aac C:\PATH\sound.wav C:\PATH\sound.aac

and afterwards

mp4creator -aac-profile=4 C:\PATH\sound.aac C:\PATH\sound.mp4

Then, you can mux this mp4-audio with mp4box in a new mp4. This might not be a "clean" solution, but it works.

[MOCKBA]

I could only play audio and video get stuck. Is it because of the B-frames or am I encoding it wrong?

This is very bizarre. My original problem was indeed AAC audio being flagged as MPEG-2 and QT unable to play mp4 as a result. But now I am stuck with video "being stuck" during playback which is not really a stuck video problem, but decoding maxing CPU and showing new frame every 30 sec or so. I did several tests and anything above 384x288 encoded on my box using either

x264.exe -q 30 --bitrate XXX -I 250 -i 25 --bframes 0 --no-b-adapt -r 5 -w --analyse all --subme 6 --no-psnr --progress --fps 25 -o "X:\PATH\raw.264" "X:\PATH\video.avs" 384x288

or GordianKnot is not playable (one or couple frames every 30 secs). But at the same time I have no problems playing clips from http://www.stuartgraham.homechoice.co.uk/ that have higher resolution and CPU stays at 80% or bellow.

What makes it especially bizarre is that I get better results (about 3fps) when streaming thru Darwin Streaming Server, then playing the same clip from HDD that gives less then 1 fps.

Any ideas what might be wrong?

Thanks.

[bond]

maybe the reference frames? try to set them to 1

[MOCKBA]

Turns out the problem was not with video at all. Once again QT didn't like the audio. QT was maxing out CPU because my mp4 had AAC 48 KHz audio at about 110 kbps and this was enough to completely hose QT that could play mp4 with video only at 80-90% CPU. Encoding audio at 35 kbps as 20 KHz made videos playable on my CPU.

All in all QT is such a crap especially on windows, but that's a different story. In the meantime, encoding x.264 (2 passes) with GordianKnot does work for QT (default settings minus B-frames that I didn't try to be safe) and if it doesn't then most likely the problem is audio or QT.

[Peter1234]

*** tests with X264 files using QuickTime 7 PP3 for Windows ***

******* the following audio formats work:

M4A
ACC MPEG4 version
AAC audio generated using the following FAAC command line from Zak Kingston
faac -q 75 -c 32000 --mpeg-vers 4 -o "audio.aac" "input.wav"


******* the following audio format does not work

MP3


******* the following command lines work:

FROM Zak Kingston:

"x264.exe" --bitrate 300 -q 30 -I 250 -i 25 --bframes 0 --no-b-adapt -r 5 -w --analyse all --subme 6 --no-psnr --fps 25 -o "raw.264" "script.avs"

FROM madoka:

"x264.exe" --bitrate 300 -r 5 -A p8x8,b8x8,i4x4 -w --me umh -m 6 -o "raw.264" "script.avs"


using defaults:

"x264.exe" -o "raw.mp4" "script.avs"


with --bframes 3 :

"x264.exe" --bitrate 300 --analyse all --ref 5 --bframes 3 --subme 6 --qpstep 1 --no-psnr -o "raw.mp4" "script.avs"

the last command line was tested using video with 5000 frames, so b-frames may not be a problem



******* the following command lines do not work:

command lines using --8x8dct do not work


******* muxing:

files muxed using MP4Box work

files not muxed do not work

[smok3]

Peter1234: so basically the entire main profile should work fine?

[Randall]

Does anybody know definately one way or the other if B-frames work in QuickTime 7.0.3? I have encoded (using x264) season 2 of The Simpsons. It worked nicely with B-frames on QuickTime 7.0.3 on windows. I then tried to encode season one of Auqa Teen Hunger Force using x264, I tried to stick with the 'main profile' because I know 8x8 intra search will not work at all with QuickTime. I used AAC-HE Nero codec 4.2.1.0 (from Nero 7) to rip the audio track. I mux together the raw video.264 file with the aac audio using YAMB (MP4Box) and it plays beautifully on all libavc players and Nero (mplayer, VLC, etc.) But when I try to play it on QuickTime 7.0.3 I get a blank white screen, and only the audio track plays. QuickTime sux0rs bigtime! They shouldn't claim compatibility of H.264 if they can't handle the standard. I dunno what the problem is, because my Simpsons encode worked perfectly on QT 7. :confused: I am %100 percent sure that I used all of the same settings on my Simpsons encode as I did with the ATHF encode. The only difference was in the source. Simpsons is teleclined to 29.97 fps interlaced, so I used an INVT pulldown filter on it to get it back to 23.76 fps progressive. ATHF was already progressive source, so I left it at 29.97 fps. I highly doubt this has anything to do with me not being able to see the video on QuickTime though. I am coming to the conclusion that QuickTime sux. Any suggestions?

[bond]

just a sidenote: qt doesnt handle sbr of aac, you will get lower quality when playing he-aac in qt than when playing aac without sbr in qt

[Randall]

Thanks bond, I didn't realize this was the case as well. Yet another reson to dislike QuickTime at the moment. I really like the sharp looking interface to QT and it's a snap to use, but the lack of support is killing me. AFAIK I have perfectly encoded MPEG-4 H.264 video, but it refuses to play in a "H.264 complient" media player. Apple needs to step up their support for H.264 and also HE-AAC.

[smok3]

randall, i got some random results like that as well, in my case the source was of the same type even (always dv 25fps) and same avs used... (i cant figure out any pattern yet.)

[Randall]

Hi smok3, as frusturating as it is, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one with this problem. I thought I was going crazy... using the same H.264 main profile specs and getting a completely different result as far as QT compatibility goes. I was going to re-encode everything a second time, but it sounds like this is just a QuickTime bug/issue. Hopefully Apple will beef up the support of H.264 with a future release. Until then, I think I might just have to use mplayer or Nero for my mp4 movies. I will try to start looking for a pattern as well, but this is appearing to be a random problem. I am gonna rip another source later this week, I'll post back my results. And if I'm successful, I'll post my x264 version and settings used as well.