How to duplicate the framerate.

[Oki]

Dear all,

I have been interested for a long time in codecs, since the uLaw ADPCM there has been a lot of improvements in lossy and lossless audio and video compression.

Now I feel very happy with the current implementations of certain algorithms like AAC in the audio arena and AVC (H264) or VP7 in video but there are other areas than just pixel or color fidelity.

One day I was shocked by a TV in a Bang & Olufsen shop. There was a CRT TV showing "The Lord of the Rings" with an impressive movement softness. I researched on that and I found that some manufacturers calls this Digital Motion Interpolation, others Motion Morphing MultiSampling (http://www.crystalplayer.com/index.php?session=6086463215a5d8d51ccda789&page=cp&feature=multisampling) or simply Film Mode (http://www.bang-olufsen.com/web2/competences/pictureD.asp?section=competences&sub=pt).

I found some settings in the FFDSHOW codec that allows to duplicate the framerate with a sort of motion compensation. You can easily activate the Deinterlacing filter with the Framerate doubler method and 1 pixel motion as search effort. This was not the right way, you can see some diference but it was not the kind of softness that I saw in the Bang&Olufsen TV.

A few days ago in this forum I found a reference to the Crystal Player (http://www.crystalplayer.com/). This a an awesome piece of software. Its framerate doubler using Motion Morphing is impressive but it still has some artifacts, anyway it is impressive and finally I could see the softness of the Bang&Olufsen TVs in my computer. Without any doubt I moved from MPC to CrystalPlayer as my default media player. Just test the explosion at the beginning of Star Wars Episode II if you want to know why. But...

5 days ago I found a software capable of doing a lot more. The problem is that it is not a player and it can not display its output in real time. See some samples here (http://www.goodervideo.com/videos/MpVideos.html). It is really amazing but ATM there is not any player or filter capable of doing this. Please, dont miss those samples, they are really amazing.

IMHO software players and/or decoding filters like FFDSHOW should focus in this area because it can give more visual impact and pleasure to the audience than many of other features. There is a lot of work in this area and it is a common subject for PhD Thesis.

Does anyone know about a fiter or any other player with this feature?

Thanks
Oki

[E-Male]

you can do that in avisynth using mvconvertfps

[Shinigami-Sama]

that blows up the filesizea lot though, I think that having flim at 48fps would have been better for HD but meh, nothing ican do about it now, I think I'l lcheck this out, I;ve always thought that tv should do this, ever since I was about 12 anways, old enough to know how tvs worked

[Oki]

you can do that in avisynth using mvconvertfps
MVConvertFPS is too slow for realtime. Is there any way of making a fast avisynth script with this plugin?

I want to have the double of the stored framerate when viewing a movie not when enconding it. I do not want to create video files @ 48 or 50fps. I want to be able to watch original DVD movies, or any other media stream, with a software player at 2xfps. As I said before I found only 2 solutions:

1. Specific software media player. The only one as far as I know is Crystal Player. This is my current best option.

2. A decoding filter fast enough for realtime.


nb: I know that someone in this forum thinks that "realtime is too slow" :-), but for me is enough.


Oki

[scharfis_brain]

encode as MPEG1 or MPEG2 and watch it with WinDVD6 Platiums Truemotion enabled.

[E-Male]

well, it seems to me that this (depending on what quality you want) is a very CPU intensiv process
so realtime in good quality might be difficult (especially on average or slow systems)

[Oki]

encode as MPEG1 or MPEG2 and watch it with WinDVD6 Platiums Truemotion enabled.
Thank you scharfis_brain, I did not know that InterVideo included the Trimension (http://www.trimension.com/index.php?page=products.html) technology from Philips in WinDVD 6 Platinum.

I have tested their implementation of TrimensionDNM (Digital Natural Motion) and it is really impressive, better than Crystal Player in this matter but it seems that this feature is only available when playing MPEG1 and MPEG2 streams as you say.

Maybe InterVideo is planning a future version of this technology with support for MPEG4 ASP (XviD & co.) and AVC (H.264) streams. By the way, WinDVD 7 Platinum displays the H.264 logo... What does it means?

In this page page (http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVD_Profile.jsp)(in English) InterVideo says:
supports Real Player files, Quick Time files, Windows Media files, DivX 5.2 Pro, HD Audio, MPEG-4 AVC H.264 Main Profile, 3GPP/3GPP2, & WMV-HD files.But they do not give any detail or limitations regarding this formats.

Anyway I am convinced that implementing a kind of motion interpolation in MPEG decoding (IMHO ffdshow would be the best for this task) is easy because the stream already has the motion vectors needed for motion interpolation and that is half of the work.

nb: Nice reading about 'Natural Motion' estimator here (http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/naturalmotion/index.html).