Hostage backup difficulty

[magic144]

RC1 (Pro) - generated movie-only backup of the latest R1 (North American) Bruce Willis action flick "Hostage" seems to be having a problem with stuttering playback on my Sony/Tosh DVD players

There doesn't seem to be any perceived problem until after where the layer break naturally occurs on the original disc - thereafter, playback is occasionally choppy. (This is just a theory, I haven't sat down and watched it all the way through, but that does seem to be the problem point after an initial scan viewing).

I've done dozens of backups before with the Pro version without any incident.

It doesn't appear problematic on a couple of my other DVD players, just the Sony and Toshiba which seem to choke.

Any thoughts or ideas Mr Dobbs? Can you reproduce the problem?
Thanks again for a fantastic product.

m

PS - Using CCE 2.67 & 2.70.02.00 both produced the same effect.

PPS - I'm trying to re-encode after having done a non-compressed run through DVD-Shrink to see if whatever that does to the Layer Break will make a difference - I'll let you know what happens

[magic144]

ok, went through a LOT of grief with this one

first theory - blank media is damaged/defective/error-prone

step 1 -> re-burn onto new blank disc (same media kind)

result -> same problem, same glitching on Sony/Toshiba in same places (it's very obvious just watching the end credits) - still doesn't seem to occur in the first half of the film, still seems to play without problems on Apex/Panasonic players

second theory - media batch is dodgy

step2 -> re-burn dvd-rb image onto new blank disc (new/different media kind)

result -> same defects

third theory - (LG 4163) burner is flaky (dubious, since I burned another DVD on the same day as Hostage without incident)

step3 -> re-burn dvd-rb image with different burner (NEC 6500)

result -> same defects

fourth theory - something about Layer Break is causing a problem

step4 -> run original dvd-decrypter image through dvd-shrink prior to dvd-rb, to "remove" Layer Break indicator/marking/code

result -> same defects

fifth theory - brute force mayhem required

step5 -> re-author original dvd-decrypter image title video track with TMPGEnc DVD Author before dvd-rb, run dvd-shrink after to remove Layer Break

result -> success - image that finally works without glitching on ALL 4

players


some analysis
----

so the successful workflow was:
a)decrypter
b)tmpgenc dvd author (oversize/uncompressed re-author - ignore usual warnings about size/bitrate)
c)dvd-rb (cce)
d)dvd-shrink (remove LB)

interestingly, IfoEdit lists these 4 params
SP/ILVU/DISC/SA as:-

orig: no/no/no/no (Layer Break cell/comment)
(there is a second Layer Break cell/comment in a final "phantom" chapter, time: 00:00:00.15)

post-TMPGEng: no/no/yes/no (Layer Break comment) - extra cell introduced (a cell was split by TMPGEnc maybe at 4.7Gb size? - anyway, the "split" was before the Layer Break cell/comment)

post-dvd-rb: no/no/yes/no (Layer Break cell/comment)

post-dvd-shrink: yes/no/yes/no (no Layer Break cell/comment)


NB from TMPGEnc author stage on, "time:", "Pos:" and "Frames:" references are CLOSE BUT DIFFERENT from the original values (but consistent thereafter)


NB final cell (final "phantom" chapter) in original is removed by TMPGEnc - it was listed as a (2nd) Layer Break and "time: 00:00:00.15"


NB for SP/ILVU/DISC/SA in the original basic decrypter/dvd-rb (only) process:-

post-dvd-rb: yes/no/no/no
all cells same time/pos/frames are kept as in the original too, including "phantom" final chapter


things that are weird/noteworthy:
1) the original dvd-decrypted image has DISC=no at the Layer Break cell, whereas, for instance in another DVD I inspected, DISC=yes at this point (as it does after the workflow in the successfully working image for this one)

2) the time/pos/frames counts CHANGE after the TMPGEnc reauthoring process - what???


if any of this makes any sense to anyone or provokes further comment/discussion/analysis - please throw in your 2 cents (including jdobbs!)

there is obviously something in the basic workflow that does not produce an image fully compliant with all the players (some timecode/count issues? to do with the layer break/discontinuity???)


BTW - can anybody give me a succinct explanation as to what the terms SP/ILVU/DISC/SA mean?


cheers, hope this helps to improve an already great product

[borgraf]

fifth theory - brute force mayhem requiredTake that, Einstein! :D

so the successful workflow was:
a)decrypter
b)tmpgenc dvd author (oversize/uncompressed re-author - ignore usual warnings about size/bitrate)
c)dvd-rb (cce)
d)dvd-shrink (remove LB)

...

if any of this makes any sense to anyone or provokes further comment/discussion/analysisIn all honesty I only skimmed through the posts cause it's too hot here to concentrate.. but you could try and burn the project after c), before d), to possibly eliminate DVD-Shrink from the equation.

[magic144]

absolutely
I just decided to do d) as well, since I've seen in the past where a single-layer burned DVD with a Layer Break code actually triggers a pause in the (Sony) player, even though there's no physical second layer! - it's nuts

(plus I've wasted enough laser energy and plastic for one movie!)

anybody have any thoughts on why TMPEng DVD author would have changed the frames/times for the cells, or the DISC flag discrepency?