Best DTS to AC3 transcoder is BeSweet

[mugz8391]

I wasted alot of time trying to find a better way to transcode DTS to AC3 after reading all the criticism of BeSweets method in this forum.

I extracted a 2 hour and 15 minute DTS soundtrack from a rare and unique DVD that I wanted to re-author to include an AC3 soundtrack.

What I discovered was that other opensource and 'freeware' transcoders failed miserably, as did other 'purchseware' I tried.

Foobar2000 and Hypercube Transcoder both succeded in producing WAV/PCM files, but in both cases the resulting output files were about 15 minutes shorter than the DTS input, (the end of the track was mysteriously getting cut off). I managed to find a way to split the DTS file in two, (using reauthor mode of DVD Shrink and splitting the DVD in two, then extracting the DTS tracks), after seeing that smaller DTS files transcoded to the end. Both HyperCube and Foobar2000 successfullty transcoded both halfs to the end BUT...

The resulting WAV/PCM files had most of the sound going to the LEFT in both Stereo and 5.1 surround modes. I managed to fiddle with the AC3 filter settings, (which Hypercube used by default), and get resulting WAV/PCM file, (or files when extracting 6 seperate wavs), to come out right BUT...

When I finally got those wav files and plugged them into my 'purchaseware' AC3 encoder(s) the volume was no better than the file ouput by BeSweet, and I still had the problem of how I was going to join the split files.

Finally I must also add that I did get Foobar2000 to trascode to AAC and then tried to use 'purchasware' to transcode the AAC to AC3, and when the 'purchseware' did not crash, which was often, the resulting AC3 was not as good of quality, and no 'louder' than the output of DTS to AC3 by BeSweet.

Then I ran accross this very informative article, for those of you who don't want to read the whole thing, which was very educational for me, just go to the paragraph that starts out:

"A common criticism is that Dialogue Normalization "normally" reduces the level of the soundtrack by about 4 dB" :

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-dialog-normalization-6-2000.html

Bottom line, BeSweet ROX! (IMHO)

[Erupter]

The resulting WAV/PCM files had most of the sound going to the LEFT in both Stereo and 5.1 surround modes. I managed to fiddle with the AC3 filter settings, (which Hypercube used by default), and get resulting WAV/PCM file, (or files when extracting 6 seperate wavs), to come out right BUT...

I used Hypercube too.
Now i noticed this thing of channells being swapped that i think is a fault on besweet side.
I say so because the pure DTS plays ok (correct channells), a 6ch wav transcoded with default settings by Hypercube plays fine, the AC3 produced by besweet from the wav has all channells mixed!
After numerous tries i found that i had to change the channels sequence in Hypercube to obtain a correctly transcoded AC3.
But i also discovered that the Wav so produced by Hypercube did not sound correctly anymore.
So i believe it is something in besweet.
About the "dialogue normalization": i didn't use any normalization at all in my transcodings (not even the DRC) nevertheless my AC3s have a volume a lot lower then their DTS parents.

[mugz8391]

I used Hypercube too.
About the "dialogue normalization": i didn't use any normalization at all in my transcodings (not even the DRC) nevertheless my AC3s have a volume a lot lower then their DTS parents.

Well again, according to the article, DTS plays 'too loud' by default.

I don't think there is a way to adjust or reduce the dianorm in BeSweets ac3 plugin, is there?

I am assuming that the default -27db setting is 'built in' to the BeSweet plugin. Every application I have seen that ALLOWS you to adjuist the settng has "-27db" set as the default. That includes SoftEncode, SurCode, ACID, Sonys' latest Vegas+DVD production suite, etc etc etc. If the BeSweet plugin did NOT have that setting built in, it would be an 'oddball' in the world of AC3 encoding since it seems to be a 'standard' setting/feature of AC3 encoding everywhere else.

The purpose of the article is to point out that dianorm is not a 'bad thing' and 'so what' if you have to adjust your volume up a little when listening in AC3.

mugz

PS - I did not try to encode AC3 from WAV files using BeSweet, I was going direct from DTS to AC3 ie DTS input, AC3 output in the BeSweetGUI - and the resulting AC3 plays fine, the channels are not switched.

My guess is that you could 'tinker' with getting the channels to come out right with BeSweet using 6 WAV input, just the same way you have to tinker with Hypercube's AC3 filter settings to get the WAV output you want.

[Erupter]

I would rather not use any normalization or dynamic range reduction for music.
I am doing all this to listen to AUDIO DVDs on my pc using winamp and the Ac3filter plugin.
Reducing the dynamic range on a song would mean listening to something different from what i hear from the DVDA.


PS - I did not try to encode AC3 from WAV files using BeSweet, I was going direct from DTS to AC3 ie DTS input, AC3 output in the BeSweetGUI - and the resulting AC3 plays fine, the channels are not switched.

My guess is that you could 'tinker' with getting the channels to come out right with BeSweet using 6 WAV input, just the same way you have to tinker with Hypercube's AC3 filter settings to get the WAV output you want.

If i do not thinker at all with Hypercube i have perfect 6chWavs.
But then when i go convert the wav into AC3 by means of besweet, the channels are all mixed up.
So see what seems to get wrong channels is Besweet itself.
Anyhow how are you able to have besweet decode the dts? I haven't been able to do so.
I'd really like to try this as it is a real pain to manuall transcode each and every file (hypercube does not feature batch processing).

And by the way i tried setting manual gain to 10dB in besweet and it has no effect.
Nor has any effect (other then slightly inficing quality) the DRC.

I tried HeadAC3 and its gain works: i have transcoded some files with 10dB of gain and they sound much more like their parents in DTS and without any DRC.

[mugz8391]

[QUOTE=Erupter]If i do not thinker at all with Hypercube i have perfect 6chWavs. But then when i go convert the wav into AC3 by means of besweet, the channels are all mixed up. So see what seems to get wrong channels is Besweet itself.

---snip---

Anyhow how are you able to have besweet decode the dts? I haven't been able to do so.
QUOTE]

Are you using Hypercube to transcode the DTS to one six channel wav or to six mono wavs? Either way, have a look at this and scroll down to 'Transcode Dolby Digital' at:

http://hypercubemx.free.fr/html/transcoding_guides.html

Either way you are using AC3filter as your mixer. Take a long hard look at the recommended settings for AC4filter/mixer - it has right going to center, center going to right, surround left going to surround right, etc. That is what I was saying about trying to get the proper output from Hypercube, you have to tinker with it because the default AC3 filter settings won't work right. I was getting 6 'perfect?' wave files but they were not labeled correctly. I was putting them into my AC3 transcoder and it was comming out all mixed up until I realized what Hypercube was doing.

If you use hypercube to transcode the DTS to six individual files, you can can/must reorder them (ie tinker with), them yourself to get the right output from BeSweet when transcoding to AC3.

I use the BeSweetGUI to transcode DTS, it uses the InterVideo filter as opposed to the AC3filter that Hypercube uses. The Hypercube page says it can also be configured to use the InterVideo filter too, but the documentation for that process is lacking and I don't see a forum there anywhere to ask questions, ie, I have not figured out how to do that yet.

To use BeSweet/BeSweetGUI to transcode DTS you need to have AZIDTS installed in the directory below BeSweet/BeSweetGUI and you also have to have InterVideo WinDVD installed. Just search the forum here or google for the words azidts besweet windvd and/or intervideo and you'll find plenty of guides.

mugz

[Erupter]

Are you using Hypercube to transcode the DTS to one six channel wav or to six mono wavs? Either way, have a look at this and scroll down to 'Transcode Dolby Digital' at:

http://hypercubemx.free.fr/html/transcoding_guides.html

Either way you are using AC3filter as your mixer. Take a long hard look at the recommended settings for AC4filter/mixer - it has right going to center, center going to right, surround left going to surround right, etc.


Lets sum it up.
I decode DTS to a single 6ch wave.
I do indeed change the order of extraction of the channels (from L-R-C-LFE-SL-SR to L-C-R-SL-SR-LFE) but that's just for besweet!
As i said: if i play the DTS (in BS with AC3filter) straight it sounds fine, if i play a 6ch wav decoded by Hypercube without modifing the channel sequence, it plays fine.
If i encode this wav to ac3 it does not play fine anymore!
Channels are all mixed up!
And since BS is always using AC3filter for playback, then i say it's not ac3filter to have problems.
It's besweet!


To use BeSweet/BeSweetGUI to transcode DTS you need to have AZIDTS installed in the directory below BeSweet/BeSweetGUI and you also have to have InterVideo WinDVD installed. Just search the forum here or google for the words azidts besweet windvd and/or intervideo and you'll find plenty of guides.

I downloaded the last version and now it supports DTS extension.
Previously it did not support that and i could not select those files.
Anyway i tried a direct transcode using besweetgui (with various settings) from dts to ac3.
And still the gain does not work.
HeadAc3 is so much better.
First the gain works so that the AC3 sounds pretty much like the DTS (and it is a huge 10dB difference we are talking about!), and i also think i hear some differences in quality and dynamics.
But that could well be my immagination...