Does anyone use "Process WAV"?

[Guest]

I'm considering removing some of the legacy audio stuff from DGIndex, but before doing that I thought I'd better poll the users. Let's start with the "Process WAV" functionality. Does anybody actually use this feature?

FYI, it's easily performed in (for example) BeSweetGUI, azid, etc.

[madoka]

I've never used it. I always demux the AC3 track and process it separately using azid. I guess there's no good reason why I do this, but old habits die hard.

So I vote for removing the feature. :sly:

[iNFO-DVD]

No problems here, as long as I can still demux the audio, AC3 & MPA.

[manono]

Hi-

Does anybody actually use this feature?

I use it for those rare instances that the DVD has LPCM audio. Otherwise, for AC3 audio, I'm like the rest and do any audio conversions necessary outside of DGIndex.

[fccHandler]

Honestly, I never even noticed it before today.

[iNFO-DVD]

Just a quick thought, I presume obviously the demuxing with stay, is there anything you can do if the audio is LPCM (demux/extract) so it can be further processed by a 3rd party app as in mpa & ac3?

[geoffman]

Yeah, like manono I use it occasionally for much the same reasons.

[Guest]

I use it for those rare instances that the DVD has LPCM audio. Why is it needed in that case? Are you conflating this with "Decode to WAV", which I have not proposed to eliminate?

[Guest]

Just a quick thought, I presume obviously the demuxing will stay, is there anything you can do if the audio is LPCM (demux/extract) so it can be further processed by a 3rd party app as in mpa & ac3? Wouldn't "Decode to WAV" be adequate?

[Wilbert]

@neuron2,

Not every lpcm is supported. Once i posted a link with different kind of samples:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=630154#post630154
second download link: http://www.videohelp.com/~jsoto/AudioTests/
contents: http://www.videohelp.com/~jsoto/AudioTests/infoAudioDVD.txt

I hope you can look at it :)

[Cyberia]

Both "Process WAV" and "Decode to WAV" need to be removed. Yes, we know about the LPCM issue.

Wilbert you and others are talking about the "Decode to WAV" option not "Process WAV"

[ron spencer]

why remove process/decode to WAV? it is handy

[manono]

Doh! Decode To WAV is what I thought you meant. I know, if you had meant that, you would have said it. I don't even know what Process WAV does, have never used it, so I guess I don't need it.

I had to look up "conflating", too. I don't think I'm conflating, just confusing. :)

[Wilbert]

So, what does "Process WAV" do?

[Guest]

@manono

I thought it would be insulting to suggest that you were confused.

@ron spencer

I'm a strong believer in proper partitioning of functionality. There are a lot of "handy" things that could be thrown in, but do they really belong there? Also, there are better solutions available nowadays. And from a practical standpoint, I don't want to have to maintain and document this stuff. Maybe Cyberia will give you his take on it, too.

[Guest]

So, what does "Process WAV" do? It lets you apply sample rate conversion (SRC) (48 -> 44.1), normalization, and delay correction to existing WAV files. But the SRC is not the best nowadays, the normalization is limited to attenuation, and these things can be much better performed with modern audio applications.

[unskinnyboy]

I don't use the feature either and I also agree that this functionality is better left to the constantly updated audio apps. :)

[guada 2]

For my part, i always demux the AC3.

@Neuron2

Would you have other projects for DGindex?

[Cyberia]

Maybe Cyberia will give you his take on it, too.

Always glad to give people a piece of my mind ;)

Several audio functions were added to DVD2AVI back in it's original incarnation. They were added because there was a real need for these functions and no alternative software existed then.

Times have changed.

There are several audio applications available (BeSweet comes to mind first and foremost) that can perform ALL of the audio functions in DGIndex and do them better and faster. Plus they provide many other options not in DGIndex. Additionally, these other programs are in active development, whereas the 'Decoding' functions in DGIndex have not been updated in years.

The Demux functionality of DGIndex will not be affected by this. AGAIN: Demux will remain and continue to be improved.

The following functions are strongly being considered for removal:

Process WAV
Decode to WAV
Dolby Digital Decode (and sub functions)
48 -> 44.1Khz
Normalization

[Guest]

Would you have other projects for DGindex? Please see the sticky thread called "DGMPGDec Development List" for pending work.

[Guest]

The following functions are strongly being considered for removal:

Process WAV
Decode to WAV
Dolby Digital Decode (and sub functions)
48 -> 44.1Khz
Normalization That's right. So as they say at weddings, if you have any objections come forward, or forever hold your piece (or is that "peace"?).

[iNFO-DVD]

Originally Posted by iNFO-DVD
Just a quick thought, I presume obviously the demuxing will stay, is there anything you can do if the audio is LPCM (demux/extract) so it can be further processed by a 3rd party app as in mpa & ac3?

Originally Posted by neuron2
Wouldn't "Decode to WAV" be adequate?
What I meant was this:

At the moment I'm saying.... 'Demux All Tracks' (via 3rd party proggy), It's just the job, don't have to worry about anything and when it's finished I can take a look at what's there, AC3, DTS or MPA. I don't need to know anything about the audio beforehand as DGIndex will tell me all I need by it's audio files dropped.

Well, if the audio track is an LPCM I'm stumpt as nothing will happen after a 'demux all tracks' as I'm sure it would need a, as you said, 'Decode to WAV', now if I had a option to allow the LPCM get treated as the other audio types do when a 'demux' request is passed would be just awesome. By treated I mean it comes out so aware of it and can do some further processing on it.

Does that make sense?

[Guest]

Does that make sense? Yes. I will not leave you without a means to extract LPCM audio. Wilbert would never let me get away with that. :)

[guada 2]

" Please see the sticky thread called "DGMPGDec Development List" for pending work "(Neuron2).

I Am Not Necessarily Aware Of the Operations in Progress, Since I Work.
I Think That You Can Understand That.

However, thank you for the information.

[Guest]

I Think That You Can Understand That. I have no idea what you are talking about. I tried to answer your question in good faith.

[iNFO-DVD]

I will not leave you without a means to extract LPCM audio.

So does that mean when I 'demux all tracks' it will do something with the LPCM?

[unskinnyboy]

That's right. So as they say at weddings, if you have any objections come forward, or forever hold your piece (or is that "peace"?).
To be precise, it is: Speak now or forever hold your peace. :)

[Wilbert]

So does that mean when I 'demux all tracks' it will do something with the LPCM?
It means be patient, he will work on it!

[Guest]

So does that mean when I 'demux all tracks' it will do something with the LPCM? Yes, exactly. Most likely it will create a WAV file. We could create raw audio, but would anyone want that?

[Cyberia]

Yes, exactly. Most likely it will create a WAV file. We could create raw audio, but would anyone want that?
No, a WAV will work.

Is PCM -> WAV anagalous to MPEG-4 -> AVI? In other words, is the WAV format a container format for PCM audio?

[iNFO-DVD]

Yes, exactly. Most likely it will create a WAV fileCool, look forward to future versions.

[Guest]

Is PCM -> WAV anagalous to MPEG-4 -> AVI? In other words, is the WAV format a container format for PCM audio? Yes, exactly.

[geoffman]

Why is it needed in that case? Are you conflating this with "Decode to WAV", which I have not proposed to eliminate?

Oops, I misread it too, decode to wave is what I use sometimes..... :o

[Guest]

Good news for Wilbert...

I have 48KHz/96KHz, 16-bit/24-bit, stereo/mono LPCMs working correctly. They'll be supported in 1.4.0 final.

I can't find any specs or code examples for the 20-bit parsing.

[mg262]

I'm pretty new to this, but FWIW I've never used that feature either.I'm a strong believer in proper partitioning of functionality. Hear, hear! Especially with CLI support!

[Wilbert]

Great thanks!

I wanted to point you to a thread in the dev section, but i see you already responded in that thread :)

It's perhaps nice to add audio info (like no of channels, bit-depth, samplerate, etc ...) to the demuxed filename?

[ron spencer]

ok just to be straight here...if you have LPCM audio it will still demux....but anything else (including ac-3) you have to do yourself later (via. belight etc)

[unskinnyboy]

ok just to be straight here...if you have LPCM audio it will still demux....but anything else (including ac-3) you have to do yourself later (via. belight etc)
No. Please read what Cyberia emphasized in post #19. The Demux functionality is untouched - you can still demux AC3, MP3, DTS, AAC same like you used to before.

[ron spencer]

My post was poor....I meant to say that there will be no conversion from ac-3 to WAV, etc. sorry

[Guest]

My post was poor....I meant to say that there will be no conversion from ac-3 to WAV, etc. sorry Correct.

[ron spencer]

this is fine by me really....the demux is all that is really needed as belight, etc do a fine job

[WarpEnterprises]

I will miss the decode to WAV functionality, as there AFAIK is no AviSynth plugin to load AC3 and do a controllable downmix (dynamic range compression).
Although the plugins from Nic/A_afra seem to partially do the job.
Maybe I overlooked some possibilities?

[Guest]

I will miss the decode to WAV functionality, as there AFAIK is no AviSynth plugin to load AC3 and do a controllable downmix (dynamic range compression).
Although the plugins from Nic/A_afra seem to partially do the job.
Maybe I overlooked some possibilities? Is it just that you don't like having to do an extra step in a different application? Or is there something else?

Let's put our efforts into getting the AC3 source filter to do what we need. Can you specify what is missing from Nic's AC3 filter?

[shawbros]

I use "Decode to WAV" all the time! It's one of the most convenient features and a great loss.

[Guest]

I use "Decode to WAV" all the time! It's one of the most convenient features and a great loss. What does it do for you that can't be done using AC3Source() or NicAC3Source()?

If you want the feature retained, you'll have to justify it.

[Cyberia]

I will miss the decode to WAV functionality, as there AFAIK is no AviSynth plugin to load AC3 and do a controllable downmix (dynamic range compression).
Although the plugins from Nic/A_afra seem to partially do the job.
Maybe I overlooked some possibilities?

I don't understand. DGIndex doesn't currently provide any sort of Downmix/DRC within AviSynth. And removing the Deocding stuff doesn't prevent you from using BeSweet to generate a WAV from the AC3.

It seems like you are going to miss a feature that doesn't exist.

[squid_80]

What if instead of the decode to wav option (which outputs pcm) there was an option to add a wav header to the demuxed ac3 file, the same as projectX has? Then if ac3acm is installed the wav file can be loaded easily by avisynth, virtualdub etc.

[Cyberia]

Can someone enlighten me on why a WAV file is needed at all?

If you are authoring a DVD or encoding an AVI, you can just mux in the original AC3 audio and be done.

If you want to create a MP3 (or MPA) you can do that directly with BeSweet without creating the WAV file. Direct AC3 -> MP3(A) conversions have been possible for a while now.

Of course BeSweet can also create a Downmixed/Normailized/DRCd WAV file also.

What are people doing with WAV files that is any harder if we remove the Decode functionality?

[squid_80]

Well, things won't be harder for me if decode functionality is removed. I was just proposing another option for the people that say they will miss it. Here are the reasons for my proposal:

a) Avisynth's wavsource() command will load ac3 data if it has a wav header and ac3acm is installed. No worrying about plugins to get ac3source() etc.
b) Regular virtualdub (not mod) can only use wav files for adding audio. Sticking a wav header on the ac3 makes it possible (again using ac3acm) to mux the ac3 data directly or transcode to something else within virtualdub.

[Guest]

I don't understand. DGIndex doesn't currently provide any sort of Downmix/DRC within AviSynth. Yes, but DGIndex provided those things and the OP wants to be able to get the same functions through Avisynth and not have to resort to another application, such as BeSweet. I'm happy to help in enhancing an AC3Source() filter in that regard. Let's hear what things are needed to fully obsolete the decoding stuff in DGIndex.

@squid_80

I'd consider the WAV wrapper for 1.5.0.