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View Full Version : Any open source VC-1 project in developing?

Valeron
22nd June 2005, 17:05
Encoder or Decoder is ok.
H.264 is hot.
Why no projects like x264/ffdshow for VC-1?

Do the developer have to pay MS for VC-1's patents?
Or it's hard to start without reference encoder/decoder?
Or just the hatred to MS stop the people do so?
Do MS still hold all the patents of VC-1 or all patents fees goes into Bill's pocket?


AFAIK, VC-1 can perform as good as H.264 with good implementation.
MS's encoder is inferior when compare to the current H.264 implementation as x264 and ateme. It hasn't got any updated for 3 years. MS seems to have forget it.
I don't care if it's a MS standard or not. Because it's open now.
So I'm just looking for another VC-1 codec to see how well it can perform.
Hopefully it'll be an open source project.

Anyone know any VC-1 project is running?
bond
22nd June 2005, 18:26
the specs for vc-1 are not publically available nor finalized
Sharktooth
22nd June 2005, 20:12
VC-1 OS project? are you creazy? M$ is enaugh...
Tommy Carrot
22nd June 2005, 22:54
Some time ago there was some discussion in the ffmpeg mailing list about adding vc-1 decoding ability to libavcodec, as far as i can recall even some code was committed. I don't know if it's already working or not, but there are some efforts to make an open source decoder at least.
Valeron
23rd June 2005, 04:23
VC-1 OS project? are you creazy? M$ is enaugh...

Why not? When it become standard and finalized and the specs come to public in the future, I don't think MS can stop the people from doing something for it. Just like the MPEG os project, the patents holder can't and won't.
I am crazy?
Maybe, but I never be satisfied with MS's implementation and think it's enough. It had never got updated.
It's old, slow, quality inferior.

For instance, just imangine there's only ateme's H.264 codec left for you, and all the contenders like x264 disappear, do you still think it's enough?
Valeron
23rd June 2005, 04:36
Some time ago there was some discussion in the ffmpeg mailing list about adding vc-1 decoding ability to libavcodec, as far as i can recall even some code was committed. I don't know if it's already working or not, but there are some efforts to make an open source decoder at least.

Sounds like good news, hopefully it will be included with ffdshow in the future.
I think an encoder will be more interesting.:D
Sharktooth
23rd June 2005, 12:23
Well, VC-1 is a MS standard and since MS policies are known to be not "user friendly", i prefer to leave VC-1 die...
lamer_de
23rd June 2005, 12:29
If MS manages to get VC-1 to be used on HD-DVDs (and atm it looks like it), I doubt it'll be anything but dead.

CU,
lamer_de
bond
23rd June 2005, 19:41
when looking at how many companies claim to own patents on vc-1 i dont think you can say something like "its owned by m$", of course supporting it means supporting the only and surely for a long time most widely existing implementation of the standard: wmv9

but i am sure m$ is already working on a non-backwards compatible wmv10 of which it doesnt have to share the specs with other companies
saratoga
3rd July 2005, 01:53
when looking at how many companies claim to own patents on vc-1 i dont think you can say something like "its owned by m$", of course supporting it means supporting the only and surely for a long time most widely existing implementation of the standard: wmv9

but i am sure m$ is already working on a non-backwards compatible wmv10 of which it doesnt have to share the specs with other companies

Its pretty much irrelevent though even if they do extend the format, since the VC-1 spec is already finalized AFAIK. They can make as many WMV(9+n) formats as they like, and it won't matter to someone using VC-1.

If you believe Benwaggoner, the spec is on par with h264, even if the reference implimentation sucks, so it could be an interesting codec if someone cared enough to further develop it. Personally though I think x264 has more potiential since its already so far along.
Sirber
3rd July 2005, 01:59
(IMHO), Best put efforts on x264 than on M$ crap.
bond
3rd July 2005, 10:08
If you believe Benwaggoner, the spec is on par with h264, even if the reference implimentation sucks, so it could be an interesting codec if someone cared enough to further develop it. Personally though I think x264 has more potiential since its already so far along.if you look at the specs yourself (or at least at my avc sticky) you will realise that the format is not on par with h.264, especially not with high profile
Episode
4th July 2005, 21:10
I heard that DVD Jon is working on VC-1 decoder for VLC. I found few screenshots on his weblog showing wmv9 video playing on Linux and it looked quite good. I hope this patch gets commited into VLC's cvs soon, because there is currently no way to play wmv9 encoded material in avi container on OSX. (WMP9 for OSX doesn't support avi)
bond
4th July 2005, 21:26
afaik dvdjon uses the vc-1 reference decoder
Rash
5th July 2005, 03:21
but i am sure m$ is already working on a non-backwards compatible wmv10 of which it doesnt have to share the specs with other companies
Maybe not. If they were, indeed, then they would probably push this one into BD/HD-DVD and not VC-1.
bond
5th July 2005, 10:04
Maybe not. If they were, indeed, then they would probably push this one into BD/HD-DVD and not VC-1.the main purpose of wmv9 is streaming atm and i assume m$ has an interest to offer an own streaming codec that is not open, but bluray/hd-dvd requires an open format
Inventive Software
11th July 2005, 09:15
Yup, and as we all know, Microsoft doesn't really like to go open!
hellfred
19th September 2005, 16:25
Looks like inclusion of the referenc VC-1 decoder into VLC is done:
See this blog (http://nanocrew.net/2005/09/01/compiling-vlc/)

Hellfred
movax
19th September 2005, 18:43
IMO, I think a VC-1 decoder would be enough to rile Microsoft, an encoder would certainly get their legions of litigating lawyers loose to send cease and desist orders. (Mm, alliteration.)
PatchWorKs
20th September 2005, 11:34
Just a question: why wasting your time on it ?
Help Dirac, Theora or SNOW instead.
movax
20th September 2005, 18:35
Just a question: why wasting your time on it ?
Help Dirac, Theora or SNOW instead.

A VC-1 decoder would be very worthwhile, whereas an encoder could as well be useful if VC-1 turns out on par with AVC for implementation into Bluray or HD-DVD. Being limited to commercial decoders for mainstream content is not a good thing. (I want to watch "Steven Segal Movie #2398298", packaged in HD-DVD + VC-1, but alas I'm limited to this decoder which <enter flaw here> :( )