Sample HD MPEG-1 Clip...

[IgorC]

Pour IgorC - la question d'accuracy de 'matices de quant'. Excuse-moi, mon francais est terrible.


You're violarion rules of this firum speak i english

I also can say you some pair of words on spanish,portgues, russian, tatar.

[digigami]

But there are blocking artifacts on this MPEG2 encode (because average quant 6).
Oui. Je pense que vous encodez une autre MPEG-2 VBR libavcodec a 6 mbits/s?
---
Yes. I think that you encode another MPEG-2 VBR with libavcodec at 6 mbits/s? I think it will be perfect quality for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. At 6 mbits/s! Do you agree?

You are really incredible ....
Merci beaucoup. You are incredible yourself. Much better than Waaaggggonnnner. You should write for DV magazine.

Je pense que libavcodec utilizez I-frame injection and exhaustive ME? Oui?

[digigami]

You're violarion rules of this firum speak i english

I also can say you some pair of words on spanish,portgues, russian, tatar.

Pobre sos vos pelotudo de mierda. Ya se que cuestion de accurancy esta en matrices de quantizacion. Disculpa mi español. Pero la concha de tu madre era una puta y vos sos un puto del orto.

C'est bon, parce-que I do not speak french! Barely.
----
That's good, because I do not speak french! Barely.

[IgorC]

Read the rules http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

You are violating folowing rules
3. Keep the focus: Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved, locked or simply be deleted.

4. Be nice to each other

13. The official language is English

[digigami]

Read the rules http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

You are violating folowing rules
3. Keep the focus: Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved, locked or simply be deleted.

4. Be nice to each other

13. The official language is English

OK, I have translated my minor french statements. Also, you will see all my posts are related to the discussion...

Also, do you notice I am H.264 advocate now? We are all working on the same thing. Except I am mostly mac these days:
http://www.digigami.com/eurekagram/pdf/1993_11_SD_Hacking.pdf

[digigami]

and my best possible encoding at 3800 Kbps for libavcodec MPEG2 encoder
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/MPEG2-HQ5.m2v


Sagittaire - I believe this is not your _best_ possible. The source is 24fps and you have encoded at 25fps. Your encoder is time-resampling the frames which introduces extra motion blur. Encode again, everything the same except 24fps instead of 25 and you will have your best. Also, maybe enough to remove light blocking during fade in.

[Sagittaire]

Sagittaire - I believe this is not your _best_ possible. The source is 24fps and you have encoded at 25fps. Your encoder is time-resampling the frames which introduces extra motion blur. Encode again, everything the same except 24fps instead of 25 and you will have your best. Also, maybe enough to remove light blocking during fade in.

don't change anything for quality (except bitrate -> 3800 Kbps for 25 fps and 3648 bps for 24 fps) ... it's simply a speed frame conversion 24@25 fps in avisynth.

[bond]

guys, keep cool. no french plz

[digigami]

don't change anything for quality (except bitrate -> 3800 Kbps for 25 fps and 3648 bps for 24 fps) ... it's simply a speed frame conversion 24@25 fps in avisynth.

OK . 24@25 I understand. Any hits on using Recode?

I have no idea what I am doing wrong with Recode:
1. Import 720p trailer from Apple.
2. Select Cinema AVC profile
3. Clear 'fit to size of media'.
4. Click next.
5. Click burn or set to 1-pass. Always fails.


Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: CD80 (354000)

15:50:29 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

15:50:29 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 133
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: C:\Documents and Settings\gen\My Documents\Nero Recode\New Folder (57338826752 bytes free)
NeroDigital profile: Cinema - AVC
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

15:51:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 158
NeroDigital: init

15:51:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 269
NeroDigital: burning 42632 sectors (42632 required)

15:51:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 343
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

15:51:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 697
NeroDigital: encode ice_age_2-tlrD_720p

Source:
Size (1280,688)
Display Aspect Ratio (80,43)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (0, 0, 0, 0)
Resizing enabled (1280,688)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 8000000 bps

15:51:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 722
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\gen\LOCALS~1\Temp\\ice_age_2-tlrD_720pa01908.bin

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2 Compare\Nero Recode II\burning\burn_ndigital.cpp, line:1884, error:Unspecified error (0x80004005)
15:51:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit

[Sharktooth]

Seems the problem is "burn". Set up recode to encode to a file instead of burning to a disc.

[digigami]

Seems the problem is "burn". Set up recode to encode to a file instead of burning to a disc.

I'm not sure what I have has that option. I have the Hard Disk Folder option set, rather than a physical burner, but I cannot see an option to do something other than make a CD.

I am using the 30-day trial of Recode CE, because although I purchased it, they have not sent me an email.

Right now the command line tool (x264) is looking quite appealing.

UPDATE: I looked at various ripping guides for using Nero for iPod video, PSP, etc and other than changing the profile/target, I am using Recode correctly. Burn is indeed the button. I'm not sure that failing with a MFC ASSERT statement is "production software".

[Sharktooth]

You may want to adapt MeGUI to Mono so it can run on OSX. It should be quite an easy task coz Mono supports C#.
You can also try updating to the lastest Nero 7.0.1.4b just released...

[digigami]

My codec comparison sources. Look at my review scenes of Matrix3.. the source simply isn't good enough.


Can you post the forum url for this, thanks?

[Revgen]

@Digigami

I think that MPEG-1 as an HD rez clip will be good because of the lack of licensing fees for mass production, and because people with slower processors would be able to watch them.

But to say that MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 is comparable to AVC is not an accurate statement.

If I were you, I'd promote your encoders (especially your MPEG-1 encoder) as a cheaper, more compatible, and more processor friendly alternative for mass distribution. You won't get trashed as much, and you might be taken more seriously.

Just my 2 cents.

[digigami]

You may want to adapt MeGUI to Mono so it can run on OSX. It should be quite an easy task coz Mono supports C#.
You can also try updating to the lastest Nero 7.0.1.4b just released...

Nah. If I need a gui, I can whip one up right quick like. The fact that x264 built without a problem with configure && make is a big plus for getting started. I tend to go about things a little differently so my gui probably won't look like the other ones....

[digigami]

If I were you, I'd promote your encoders (especially your MPEG-1 encoder) as a cheaper, more compatible, and more processor friendly alternative for mass distribution. You won't get trashed as much, and you might be taken more seriously.
Just my 2 cents.

You think? Go up the to the top of the thread and read the first page.

I've been reading the specs for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and I can tell you, Blu-Ray has the bitrate ceiling, and HD-DVD supports a really nice wide spectrum of frame sizes, so MPEG-2 is going to work great for both of those. But like I said, the intelligent posters here have won me over to x264.

[digigami]

But to say that MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 is comparable to AVC is not an accurate statement.

Well, I'm still working on getting to the bottom of that. Using x264 I have generated another 720p test of Ice Age that is about 26MB. It still has some strobing effects, partially because there is banding in the Apple trailer, but also because video compression is about illusion, not about perfection. I think if Sagittaire adds another 1-2 mbit/s to his MPEG-2 clip it will be hard to improve. Which is why I want to generate an H.264 clip that is free of artifacting, or an accurate rendering of the source. Instead of trying to get the bitrate as low as possible I am interested in the least bits while still studio quality results. What we have done thus far is simply started a discussion.

I am going to answer the H.264 questions to my own satisfaction. Now that I know what the best codecs are considered to be, I can produce my own tests and publish my findings. And at the same time I have discovered some passionate people who have an excellent understanding of the codec.

H.264 may be a ratified standard in print, but I think it has a ways to go before that is mirrored in the implementations. All across the board, perhaps except for Ateme Pro, which is unobtainium. Even if Ateme is perfect, I think the decoders also have some maturing to do.

If you read every item above this post, you will not see Apple described as being incapable of making a MP4 container with a good audio stream; only the limitations on their use of AVC HP. So why, then, does Nero Showtime not play audio when it auditions HD H.264 content from the Apple site? This kind of inconsistency is everywhere. There is no question that H.264 is a revolutionary technology - I just think it is a bit raw at this point.

I just read that Microsoft's newest codec is basically a dumbing-down of H.264 so to be playable on a wider class of hardware? Does anyone know if this is factual? If it is true, I think Apple's choice of using a subset of the standard to accomplish the same goal is an example of supporting the standard, not undermining it.

[bond]

If you read every item above this post, you will not see Apple described as being incapable of making a MP4 container with a good audio stream; only the limitations on their use of AVC HP.apple uses not really main profile avc in their encoder. they are using baseline profile + 1 b-frame

So why, then, does Nero Showtime not play audio when it auditions HD H.264 content from the Apple site? This kind of inconsistency is everywhere. There is no question that H.264 is a revolutionary technology - I just think it is a bit raw at this point.audio has nothing to do with avc of course...

also aac-in-mov is not the same as aac-in-mp4 of course, so a mp4 player doesnt necessarily play mov (or mpg if you like)

[digigami]

apple uses not really main profile avc in their encoder. they are using baseline profile + 1 b-frame

Yes, I am clear on that now.


audio has nothing to do with avc of course...
It does have to do with H.264. George Lucas "Sound is 50% of the movie experience".


also aac-in-mov is not the same as aac-in-mp4 of course, so a mp4 player doesnt necessarily play mov (or mpg if you like)
Although I haven't been tracking things closely, my understanding is that MPEG-4 adopted the QT file format. In 97 I wrote a cross platform tool to reorganize the QT atoms for streaming. It looks to me like the container is the same, what is the difference and why would Apple not put AAC into the MOV in the way expected for .MP4? Seems odd. Also, since Nero plays other QT content, why would this MOV be any different.

[bond]

It does have to do with H.264. George Lucas "Sound is 50% of the movie experience".lol, now what? avc is a video standard, aac is an audio standard, both are independant

eg avc can be placed in .mp4 without needing aac and the other way round...

Although I haven't been tracking things closely, my understanding is that MPEG-4 adopted the QT file format. In 97 I wrote a cross platform tool to reorganize the QT atoms for streaming. It looks to me like the container is the same, what is the difference.mp4 and .mov is similar but not the same container

for whats different, read the specs... but how aac is placed in the file is one example

and why would Apple not put AAC into the MOV in the way expected for .MP4? Seems odd. because apple is braindead?

[digigami]

because apple is braindead?

Given your opinions, you have an unusual sig.

[Sharktooth]

It's the usual story. Apple does things how they like to do them with no respect for standards and compatibility.

[digigami]

I can make the same MPEG2 encoding in 1080p with libavcodec with 5 Mbps I think (same metric). IMO libavcodec is the best MPEG2 encoder. I think that if you can prove that your encoder is better than libavcodec could be a good publicity for your encoder ...

Sagittaire - since you seem to know the most about MPEG-2 compared with H.264, can you make a comparision of each H.264 profile/AVC level vs MPEG-2 libavcodec? It does not need to be perfect, for instance:


H.264 AVC L 5.1 - 2.5 x better than libavcodec
...
H.264 PSP Profile - 2.0x better than libavcodec
H.264 iPod Profile - 1.5 x better than libavcodec


Or anyone else that knows, approximately.

[digigami]

It's the usual story. Apple does things how they like to do them with no respect for standards and compatibility.

Sharktooth, in your posts about your custom quant matrices you refer to the recommendations for H.264 from the JVT - other than the standards document, is there a place I can read about this?

[digigami]

Here sample H264 High Profil
King Kong (http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/x264HP_KingKong_720p_1500.mp4)
1280*720*25
1500 Kbps


John, Sagittaire and anyone else who created H.264 samples - please post the AVC level, encoder/parameters used to encode the streams so others can duplicate the results.

[digigami]

It's the usual story. Apple does things how they like to do them with no respect for standards and compatibility.

OK, I'm doing some 1080p comparisons right now.

Nero H.264 sample 1080p "The Greatest Game": P4HT 3.06 Gz
* VLC 082 - does not play - massive glitches
* Nero Showtime - drops frames/audio

QuickTime H.264 Sample 1080p "Ice Age"
* QT Player - plays perfectly.

"The Greatest Game" is drama, almost no motion and very slow fades through black.

[slavickas]

why using VLC 0.8.2? 0.8.4 official release exists for some time

[CruNcher]

Digigami in Nero7 their is the newest Nero Decoder Nevideo.ax 4.2.2.3 and it has HT support (dunno if its also in the other packages but Nero sometimes don't keep them sync look in C:\Program Files\Shared Files\Ahead\DSFilter) for your Version it could be older unfortunately. In case you really have older Filters you can just download and install the Nero7 Demo and the newest update and voila newest filter ;)

VLC Win32 has massive problems with HD H.264 Decoding whyever this is the case.
Mplayer Win32 would be another good solution same as FFDshow
Also a very good new Decoder on "the market" is CoreAVC (unfortunately its only available @ the moment as a plugin for The Core Pocket Media Player) you could try this too.

The Greatest Game Ever Played playbacks here fine useing CoreAVC on my 2.4 GHz Athlon 64 Venice. With all other players i have droped frames/audio

[digigami]

why using VLC 0.8.2? 0.8.4 official release exists for some time

Because earlier in the thread 084a was not working and someone suggested 082

[digigami]

Also a very good new Decoder on "the market" is CoreAVC (unfortunately its only available @ the moment as a plugin for The Core Pocket Media Player) you could try this too.

The Greatest Game Ever Played playbacks here fine useing CoreAVC on my 2.4 GHz Athlon 64 Venice. With all other players i have droped frames/audio

I found Core Pocket Media Player but it is for handhelds. Do you have an URL for the desktop software?

[Sagittaire]

Sagittaire - since you seem to know the most about MPEG-2 compared with H.264, can you make a comparision of each H.264 profile/AVC level vs MPEG-2 libavcodec? It does not need to be perfect, for instance:


Test in progress for my mega-test codec but only for HD ...

[sillKotscha]

Do you have an URL for the desktop software?

Win32 Player + Plugins (http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/tcpmp.win32.0.71d.zip)

You're welcome!

[CruNcher]

http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/avc.win32.0.71e.zip <- CoreAVC and AAC plugin just put it in the same folder as the Player extracted files ofcourse :)

[digigami]

Win32 Player + Plugins (http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/tcpmp.win32.0.71d.zip)

Danke schoen.

[PicardGK]

I have uploaded a new version of TCPMP and CoreAVC. Please use that. The old player had a buffering problem. Additionally I actually invested a little time to optimize the AVC decoder. Multithread and CQM support is still missing (which I plan to support someday)

http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/tcpmp.win32.0.71g.zip
http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/avc.win32.0.71g.zip

CruNcher: could you test the new version and compare the speed with the "Greatest Game Ever Played" clip? Select options/video/null and options/audio/disabled and use the file/benchmark menu. I'am interested how these changes effected the speed on AMD (I have only a P4).

[CruNcher]

TCPMP Version 0.71d Benchmark Results + CoreAVC 0.71e

Average Speed 141.03%
Video Frames 3673
Amount of Data 115601 KB

Bench. Time 1:48.625
Bench. Frame Rate 33.81
Bench. Data Rate 8.7 Mbit/s

Original Time 2:33.194
Original Frame Rate 23.98
Original Data Rate 6.1 Mbit/s

URL \mplayer2\TheGreatestGame_HD_AVC.mp4
Size 118458379
Platform Windows
OS Version 5.01
Video output DirectDraw 1280x1024 32bits Lookup
Video zoom 1920x1080 -> 1280x720

TCPMP Version 0.71f Benchmark Results + CoreAVC 0.71g

Average Speed 158.62%
Video Frames 3673
Amount of Data 115601 KB

Bench. Time 1:36.578
Bench. Frame Rate 38.03
Bench. Data Rate 9.8 Mbit/s

Original Time 2:33.194
Original Frame Rate 23.98
Original Data Rate 6.1 Mbit/s

URL \mplayer2\TheGreatestGame_HD_AVC.mp4
Size 118458379
Platform Windows
OS Version 5.01
Video output DirectDraw 1280x1024 32bits Lookup
Video zoom 1920x1080 -> 1280x720

TCPMP Version 0.71d Benchmark Results + CoreAVC 0.71e

Average Speed 196.80%
Video Frames 3673
Amount of Data 115601 KB

Bench. Time 1:17.843
Bench. Frame Rate 47.18
Bench. Data Rate 12.1 Mbit/s

Original Time 2:33.194
Original Frame Rate 23.98
Original Data Rate 6.1 Mbit/s

URL \mplayer2\TheGreatestGame_HD_AVC.mp4
Size 118458379
Platform Windows
OS Version 5.01
Video output Null Video 1920x1080 0bits Lookup
Video zoom 1920x1080 -> 0x0

TCPMP Version 0.71f Benchmark Results + CoreAVC 0.71g

Average Speed 232.28%
Video Frames 3673
Amount of Data 115601 KB

Bench. Time 1:05.952
Bench. Frame Rate 55.69
Bench. Data Rate 14.3 Mbit/s

Original Time 2:33.194
Original Frame Rate 23.98
Original Data Rate 6.1 Mbit/s

URL \mplayer2\TheGreatestGame_HD_AVC.mp4
Size 118458379
Platform Windows
OS Version 5.01
Video output Null Video 1920x1080 0bits Lookup
Video zoom 1920x1080 -> 0x0


fantastic results keep it up picard :) or should i say Make it so ;)

the decoding problems also are gone
i see now that you downscale the picture to the nearest display res hehe so for me thats 720p :)

[PicardGK]

Thanks.

i see now that you downscale the picture to the nearest display res hehe so for me thats 720p :)
In the case of DirectDraw overlay mode the full sized YUV color space frames are transfered to the video card memory and it's downscaled by video card during displaying.

But the null vs directdraw speed difference is larger as mine. Do you have a 8x AGP video card? Or maybe it does vsync even in benchmark mode. Do you seen tearing during benchmark? (I do with my Radeon 9600)

Sorry for being offtopic. For further CoreAVC discussion: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104277

ps: ops. I forget to update the version number in the player to 0.71g

[Sharktooth]

im truely impressed!
i can play most of my HD stuff with less than 50% of CPU occupation (the remaining stuff has been ecoded with custom matrices...).

[Sharktooth]

back on topic (more or less)... that could be interesting: http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2113
so, FVD is a third contender and IIRC it doesnt support mpeg codecs.

[digigami]

Test in progress for my mega-test codec but only for HD ...

Sounds great. I picked up a copy of the Ice Age (#1) DVD to take a look at their quant matrices. I will post them here in a bit, maybe you can re-do your test with their qmatrices.

Also, could you post your AVISynth script used to make your winning MPEG-2? I think there are a lot of lurkers who might want to duplicate your results.

Gen

[digigami]

i also redid Ben Waggoners 8 Mbps The Island Trailer with the Ateme Encoder and X264 alot more complex then his quicktime encode, unfortunately i don't have so much space available for upload i see that i can host it maybe on Rapidshare :)

I'm reworking Wagonner's 'HDTV MPEG-2 file. It's a 2.21:1 aspect ratio, and he used letterboxing. I switched to 1280x720 and am using aspect ratio signalling, and so far I am about 1/2 the size, average bitrate of 9.8 mbits/s.

If you want a place to host samples, I will create an account on our server.

[digigami]

back on topic (more or less)... that could be interesting: http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2113
so, FVD is a third contender and IIRC it doesnt support mpeg codecs.

Yes, the chinese have been loathe to follow along. My guess is that MS gave them the codec royalty free. When MS is building market share they will do almost anything. I understand licensing/patents were prime motivators behind the development of SVCD vs DVD.

[Sagittaire]

Sounds great. I picked up a copy of the Ice Age (#1) DVD to take a look at their quant matrices. I will post them here in a bit, maybe you can re-do your test with their qmatrices.

Also, could you post your AVISynth script used to make your winning MPEG-2? I think there are a lot of lurkers who might want to duplicate your results.

Gen

My matrix (Sagittaire Matrix) seem to be the best for metric at this time. It's a HVS like matrix (HVS-good structure with lower coef for high frequencies intra/inter)

Avs script is very simple script without advanced tweak filter:
source=DirectShowSource("D:\Mes dossiers\High-Definition\ice_age_2-tlrD_h1080p.mov", fps=23.976)
source=Crop(source,12,4,-12,-4)
source=LanczosResize(source,1280,720)
source=AssumeFPS(source,25)
Return(source)

But before all it's a Libavcodec performance and not Matrix or Script performance.

First result: for same quality (metric) with HPIV at 1250 Kbps with the best AVC encoder I must use 2600 Kbps with Libavcodec MPEG2 encoder

[digigami]

no-one will encode professionally HD stuff with your or any other mpeg-2 at 3.3mbps or even at 8mbps as well...
however h.264 can be LOSSLESS too (that's different from transparent).
a professional h.264 encode with all the quality needed for distribution will be something around 3000kbps but you will not notice ANY kind of artifacts even with a frame by frame comparison unlike some actual DVDs.

Ok, I'm referring to this:
http://www.ti.com/asia/docs/india/tiidevconf2004/analog_symp/munish.pdf

They are quoting H.264 FRExt "Stunning Quality" 720p at 6.6 mbits/s. Does this sound right to everyone?

Also, having familiarized myself with the coding techniques in H.264, I think it is interesting that the post 03 extensions were primarily aimed at making H.264 more MPEG-2 like.

Regarding the film grain modelling, while an interesting addition, I think it will be tricky to implement automatically because if you look at the way modern cinematographers are using film stock, they are using it more as a way to tell a story, which means mixing different stock, with different grain characteristics intercut into the feature. Which means, if you want film grain modeling to work first you have to : 1) automatically detect the size of the grains and/or film stock in a scene. 2) remove the original grains and finally code the correct model. Does anyone know how Ateme handles this? You can bet this won't be in any single-pass hardware encoders anytime soon. Those will be the ones feeding your DVB in europe.

[Kostarum Rex Persia]

digigami, I don't know what are you trying to prove us? Even baby know that H.264 codec is much better then MPEG2 on same bitrates.

I begining to suspect that your idea is to block further improving H.264 in quality? It seems that Sony pays you to tell that MPEG2 is better or same than any H.264 codec.

[digigami]

digigami, I don't know what are you trying to prove us? Even baby know that H.264 codec is much better then MPEG2 on same bitrates.

I begining to suspect that your idea is to block further improving H.264 in quality? It seems that Sony pays you to tell that MPEG2 is better or same than any H.264 codec.

What are you talking about? Read the thread please. I don't know about anyone else, but right now I am working on learning what the correct bitrate is for H.264 720p 'stunning quality'. I am using Nero Digital Pro, which I just bought, and x264.

[Sharktooth]

Ok, I'm referring to this:
http://www.ti.com/asia/docs/india/tiidevconf2004/analog_symp/munish.pdf

They are quoting H.264 FRExt "Stunning Quality" 720p at 6.6 mbits/s. Does this sound right to everyone?

Also, having familiarized myself with the coding techniques in H.264, I think it is interesting that the post 03 extensions were primarily aimed at making H.264 more MPEG-2 like.

Regarding the film grain modelling, while an interesting addition, I think it will be tricky to implement automatically because if you look at the way modern cinematographers are using film stock, they are using it more as a way to tell a story, which means mixing different stock, with different grain characteristics intercut into the feature. Which means, if you want film grain modeling to work first you have to : 1) automatically detect the size of the grains and/or film stock in a scene. 2) remove the original grains and finally code the correct model. Does anyone know how Ateme handles this? You can bet this won't be in any single-pass hardware encoders anytime soon. Those will be the ones feeding your DVB in europe.
IMHO 6.6mbps is a bit excessive, expecially if you look at how poorly some DVDs are encoded.
3mbps seems fair to me for almost 90% of movies around. Sure there's always the ultra-grainy movie that requires more bits...
For what concerns grain modelling, the ateme encoder already has that, but the decoder must support it (ateme decoder does) or no grain will be added while decoding.

[digigami]

But before all it's a Libavcodec performance and not Matrix or Script performance.
First result: for same quality (metric) with HPIV at 1250 Kbps with the best AVC encoder I must use 2600 Kbps with Libavcodec MPEG2 encoder

Ok, can you go with Sharktooth's recommendation for 3 mbits/s AVC and discover the bitrate for Libavcodec?

Also what commandline switches do you pass to Libavcodec MPEG-2 encoder?

Gen

[CruNcher]

munishs presentation is ok but their marketing is bad http://www.fastvdo.com/H.264.html their software decoder is way of to be one of the bests :P and also one thing is outdated in that presentation, also even if the Blu-Ray founders where happy with the results after the 8x8 transform was introduced to FreXt they still decided as we all know for Mpeg-2 as their first choice :P, but if you read something like this it's clear why this is the case ;)


Thank you for the chance to see our material after compression with the AVC
encoders. The butterfly images are a good way to compare compression
algorithms. We recognize that the material we provided was some of the most
challenging that can be presented to a compression scheme, but it does
provide indication of the performance of the compression.

You presented two image segments for our review. You stated that both were
encoded at roughly 15Mb/s bit rate.

We saw the two segments and we do not know the details of the encoding
process, that being said the resultant image from current
Main Profile AVC encoder was not acceptable for quality due to the 'dancing'
of the noise floor. The modification to the AVC algorithm that you showed
did solve this problem and was a better resultant image.

We don't know if a different application of the current AVC toolbox could
have been applied that resulted in the same image quality.

We are still very concerned with the terms and conditions for licensing of
the AVC algorithm, especially for streaming applications. This would need to
be fully addressed prior to our support of the approach.“

--
Jerry Pierce
Senior Vice President
Technology
Universal Pictures
818-777-6300 cell 818-749-7776
jerry@jerrypierce.org



'm reworking Wagonner's 'HDTV MPEG-2 file. It's a 2.21:1 aspect ratio, and he used letterboxing. I switched to 1280x720 and am using aspect ratio signalling, and so far I am about 1/2 the size, average bitrate of 9.8 mbits/s.

If you want a place to host samples, I will create an account on our server.


Thx for that offer but seems you missed that http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=756989#post756989 ;)

[digigami]

munishs presentation is ok but their marketing is bad http://www.fastvdo.com/H.264.html their software decoder is way of to be one of the bests :P and also one thing is outdated in that presentation, also even if the Blu-Ray founders where happy with the results after the 8x8 transform was introduced to FreXt they still decided as we all know for Mpeg-2 as their first choice :P, but if you read something like this it's clear why this is the case ;)

Very interesting. Although since H.264 and 'smpte' VC1 are still part of the hardware spec for Blu-Ray, I think they have deferred using AVC. Possibly the hardware encoders are not ready. Have any of you tried/seen hardware encoders? The AVC encoders I read about were PC/hardware hybrids with dual Xeons. "Prototypes".

Thx for that offer but seems you missed that http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=756989#post756989 ;)
Yes, hmm. I have got lost in the thread. I did get some of the rapidshare files but I was having trouble remembering to click after 60s.