Xvid - Pal Settings

[Dejavoo]

Hi all ...
i'm trying to convert a DVD movie for several weeks
and always get bad results.
i'v been reading a lot of documents on best settings for XVID encoding.

i'm currently using the latest Ripping Packs like:
A.G.K
G.K
AR.C

with the latest V.D.M and AviSynth versions

i'm really in to it but it became exhausting.
i tried using MPEG Custom Matrix of "jaw" for 1 CD or H.263
with default setting and customed settings as well - but no luck !

i don't want to use DIVX , it has less setting for good quality and fixed sizing.

so ... my DVD properties :

source = PAL
dimension = 720 x 576
aspect ratio = 4:3
film = Interlaced
movie length = 1:18:46 hr
audio = LPCM / 2ch / 48kHz / 16bit

and ... my preferred settings :

XVID
1 CD [700 MB]
size = 512 x 384 / a.r = 4:3 / anamorphic ??
not interlaced
movie length = all
audio = MP3 / 128 CBR / stereo / 2 channels

i used DivXDRFAnalyzer and always got 9 - 13 as DRF Avg
when needed value is : 2.8 .
i wish you will find the best solution for my problem !

B.t.W - The DVD source is a very good quality !

Tanx in advance !!

[Elic]

It seems to be you forgot about interlacing :) Is source an interlaced movie or interlaced video? In second case, you must deinterlace it; in first case, attempt to simply deinterlacing can irreversibly destroy the quality so try other means first (for instance see here (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm#PALTheGoodTheBadAndTheUgly)).

And, maybe, you have very bad source (noisy and/or overcompressed during DVD mastering). Try some noise filtering.

[Dejavoo]

... oh i forgot to show you my settings

i use the folowing programs :
======================
Gordian.Knot v0.35
Virtual.Dub.Mod v1.51
Avi.Synth v2.5
XviD[Keopy Final Release] v1.0.3-20122004


My AviSynth Script :
===============

# Created with Gordian Knot

# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\Undot.dll")

# SOURCE
mpeg2source("D:\____010____\encode\agk_tmp\dvd.d2v", idct=0)

# DEINTERLACING (1)
FieldDeinterlace()

# CROPPING
crop(14,4,692,568)

# RESIZING
LanczosResize(512,384)

# DENOISING
Undot()



My XviD Settings :
==============

Twopass encoding - 11 pics

http://img51.echo.cx/img51/8933/image17fk.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/273/image23gt.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/534/image35hk.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/7526/image41lw.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/2681/image55qq.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/2249/image61gw.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/3936/image79qq.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/209/image83mu.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/83/image90yy.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/9509/image101ah.jpg (#)
http://img51.echo.cx/img51/5631/image110gd.jpg (#)

Now .... where did i go wrong ???

[Harley Quin]

What exactly is the "bad result"? Blocky image and lot's of artefacts? Or non-smooth playback? Or...?

79min at 512x384 /w 128mp3 on 700MB. Hmmm, that leaves 620 MB for video which is an average bitrate of ~1100 and 0,225 bits/pixel*frame. That might not be sufficient...

1) What kind of movie is it? A fast-paced-daylight-explosion-laden-action-flick or a dark-single-room-family-drama? You won't get 79min of "The Rock" on one CD with good image quality. You'd need an act of god for this... ;)
Try reducing the resolution. The movie looks better when the player does upsizing of a smaller but better image compared to having blocks and artefacts already in the (larger sized) encoding.

2) Credits still included? Try to encode without credits, or encode credits seperately with a lower bitrate. If the codec is left on its own, he tends to give the credits lots of bitrate. Often these 5 minutes credits, because of their motion complexity, get an average bitrate twice or three times the avg bitrate of the whole movie, while a third would be sufficient. 5min at 400 kbit/s = 15 MB, 5min at 2200 kBit/s = 80 MB.

3) In addition your movie is 4:3 (512x384=196.608) so it is enlarged more while playing than a movie which has the same pixel/frame but an aspect ratio of say 2,35:1 (672x288=193.536). With Widescreen you do not see that much on the screen so the image looks better.

If playback is stuttering: Is your CPU (memory, GPU...) sufficient to cope with GMC, Qpel, B-frames and (perhaps) post-processing?

[Dejavoo]

Hi Harley Quin and tanx for replying :goodpost:

So i'll do my best to give you accurate answers

1. The source movie is in very good quality.
2. My convertion results comes a little blocky and a little smooth
and i need it cleaner and sharper.
3. The movie is on my wedding day that becomes later on a big party
with hundreds of peoples dancing and jumping (80%) of the time.
There were 3 cameras ,2 on the ground and 1 flying above.
It was in the night in a big hall , lightning was by big colorised spot-lights
Yet dark was'nt rooling (30%) , and you could see clearly.
4. No creadits

All i ask is :
* Get this DVD backed up on a single CD of 700MB or 800MB
and be able to watch it on a DVD player connected to a TV.
* I prefer it as 4:3 , maybe you know a way to convert it to 16:9
and not get streched movie ... i don't - you can try and instruct me though :D

[Teegedeck]

As ' very good quality' is a subjective term, and the source is homevideo, I'd say, how about trying a serious denoiser?

[Dejavoo]

Maybe that will give a little idea on the source movie quality.
This is a capture from Classic Windows Media Player as in PNG format =471 KB
Playing one of the VOBs.
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/7039/img16fb.png (#)

As you can see , on my PC it looks crap but on my TV screen it looks much better (clear and sharp).

[Harley Quin]

I think your source might simply have a low compressibility (= difficult to compress). In that case 1100 kbit/s is not much, really. So if you stick to 1 CD, there is not much room for improvement. In addition, if you want the image sharper you lower the compressibility even more which will very likely result in a worse image quality.
Yes, try a denoiser. But it will get difficult if that does not work. You _can_ get rid of blocks, but not with sharpening. On the contrary, softening the image will increase the compressibility and result in less blocks and artifacts. My first choice would be NeutralBicubic instead of Lanczos. Then a lower framesize. Then a softener.
Sharp, large and without blocks, that's hardly reachable. If you're only willing to spend 700 MB you have to compromise somewhere.
Concerning 4:3, sorry, I was unclear. No, I was not recommending to stretch the image. I just wanted to point to the fact, that a 4:3 picture is enlarged more and that signs of compression are more visible than with a widescreen image of 700 MB which only fits half the screen. It's an explanation for your quality issue, but you can't do anything against it. To get the same quality, you have to invest more filesize.
Greetings

[Dejavoo]

Tanx Both!!!
I'll try and reduce the movie dimensions.
I'll use NeutralBicubic though specialists say when reducing dimensions ,much better results comes when using BilinearResize.
I'll use denoiser filter and softener.

Will post results latter on.

[sysKin]

Hmm a party is bad enough, but if the ground cameras were hand-held (and shaking) than you're pretty much screwed indeed...

However:
- use XviD 1.1 beta, it has slightly higher quality and is faster
- disable Turbo - you need maximum compression even if it takes longer

[Koepi]

Also you report about light effects - I tried to encode some live concerts and usually do 1CD encodes, this is quite impossible with such sources.

You should step through your source with such scenes frame-for-frame to verify there aren't blocks (not visible on tv but on pc) already. You should use postprocessing options in the mpeg2-decoder (in case of DGIndex i.e. CPU=6 as option).

Cheers
Koepi

[Harley Quin]

NeutralBicubic is kind of an allrounder, does not sharpen the image like Lanczos but preserves a good amount of detail.
Bilinear is a severe blow to sharpness (that's why it helps compressing so well). I use it with 384x288 @~400kbit. I did not recommend it because you explicitely asked for a sharper image. It may be worth a try, use it as an alternative to the softener. My guess is you will be disappointed, but best is always to decide for yourself. ;)
Happy testing

[Harley Quin]

Oh, and try turning off cartoon mode ;-). Your first picture shows the modifier C in zones.

[Dejavoo]

Much obliged all - will to that too !!

[scharfis_brain]

the sample image looks like bob()-deinterlaced.

please provide an unprocessed video sample.
so we can judge the quality

[Dejavoo]

I didn't like the result - even worse :confused:

Settings :

AviSynth Script :
#Created with Gordian Knot

# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\Convolution3d.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\FluxSmooth.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\Undot.dll")

# SOURCE
mpeg2source("D:\____010____\encode\agk_tmp\dvd.d2v", idct=6)

# DEINTERLACING (1)
FieldDeinterlace()

# CROPPING
crop(10,14,700,548)

# RESIZING
BicubicResize(448,352,0,0.75)

# DENOISING:
# 2) medium noise
Temporalsoften(3,5,5,mode=2,scenechange=10)
Convolution3d("moviehq")
FluxSmoothST(7,7)
Undot()


Xvid Settings :

P@L - AS@L5 / Q.T - H.263
Adap.Q / Q.Pel / GMC / B-VOPs[2|1.50|1.00] / Pac.Bit / C.GOV - all checked

M.S.P - 6 - U.High
VHQ - 4 - W.Search
Chroma - checked

Quantization :2-31 / 2-31 / 2-31
Trellis - checked

SecondPass :
10 / 1 / 20
5 / 5 / 5
0 / 0

Zone :
W - 1.00
Chro.Op - checked
BVOP.Sens - 5


I have deleted the movie so i'm sorry i can't give the idea how it looked
i'll tell you - blocky / not sharp / very low image quality
DRF Analyzer:
Average Frame quality is LOW [Average DRF/quantizer is 6.67]
Standard Deviation: Quality is MEDIUM [Std. Deviation is 1.41]
Image Resolution is LOW

It took 8 hours for converting on P4 - H E L L

Now what ?!?!? :confused:

[Harley Quin]

Use one change at a time.
You reduced framesize and used no less than 4 denoisers simultanously. No wonder it took that long, avisynth did a lot of thinking.
Start with one denoiser at LanczosResize(512,384) or BicubicResize(512,384,0,0.5). If you don't like it, no denoiser and BicubicResize(448,336,0,0.5). Sharpness will degrade, blocks may hopefully disappear. Still, no guarantee that you will actually like the image.

[Dejavoo]

Tanx "Harley Quin"
I'm in a middle of a new conversion

But now i'll post an image then use your guide

[Dejavoo]

1 CD Conversion - 384 x 288 NeturalBicubicResize 0:0.5 / Heavy Denoise
#DENOISING
Temporalsoften(4,8,8,mode=2,scenechange=10)
Convolution3d("movielq")
FluxSmoothST(10,15)
Undot()

http://img57.echo.cx/img57/1253/384x2881cd2ue.jpg (http://#)



2 CDs Conversion - 512 x 384 NeturalBicubicResize 0:0.75 / Medium Denoise
#DENOISING
Temporalsoften(3,5,5,mode=2,scenechange=10)
Convolution3d("moviehq")
FluxSmoothST(7,7)
Undot()

http://img57.echo.cx/img57/4735/512x3842cd7yp.jpg (http://#)

Xvid Settings:
As my previous post above

[Koepi]

Hum, the images look a little better to my eye now, but still isn't too pleasant (as in: looks like DVD quality). You may wanna get rid of Temporalsoften and FluxSmooth. Try Conv3d at "MovieLQ" or... hm, can't remember the VHS-tape-option anymore.

From the images you posted it looks like the source already hasn't the "best" quality, so I fear there isn't much left you could do to improve the image. It reminds me of my TV captures which I often tried. You may wanna take a look at the capture forum, there are some examples and scripts posted (a longer time ago I have to admit) which can help you getting the maximum out of such a source.

Cheers
Koepi