NTSC<->PAL DVD Conversion with Menus

[AmbientMike]

Hi Guys,

I have long frequented these pages but have only just joined this forum.

Hopefully my first post may be of some use to some people. I have put together a guide detailing how to FULLY convert a DVD to/from NTSC/PAL whilst keeping menus, extras, DTS etc

http://www.ntsc2pal.hostrocket.com/

I think a lot of people on this forum will be quite familiar with most of the tools and processes - but I haven't seen anyone else do a FULL conversion guide anywhere.

All the best.

Mikey

[Zeul]

Not a bad guide that. The reason that all the PGC commands are not scripted into the titles, is that for NuMenu that would be totally unneccessary. The scenario was never intended to be used as you have, but congrats.
:goodpost:

[AmbientMike]

Thanks Zeul - I'm a big fan of your work.

I was just looking at another disc (Blade III) and I can't quite work out how the DVD navigation accesses it's chapters (I've still got to get my head around Scenarist and PGC commands...). It would be a HUGE help if numenu4u would completely create the DVD structure in Scenarist - is that at all possible? Do I need to post that in the numenu4u forum as a feature request?

As far as I am aware it would be a bad idea to use IFO Update in this process because of the differences between NTSC and PAL IFOs.

With your NTSC<->PAL conversion script being part of numenu4u how did you envisage the WHOLE process of DVD conversion being done? Doitfast4u could be better integrated (although audio transcoding is a pain the ass)?

Mikey

[Zeul]

Sure, I can have a look at creating the correct layout for the titles also. I had always assumed that dif4u/scenaid at some point would offer conversion also, and I am sure they will in the future. Being that the 'big3/4' were only interested in FULL backups, it made no sense for the others to work on conversion until the menus could be done also, which is now a reality.

I can forsee some problems with a full layout, and I am sure that scenarist would not compile until you had replaced your assets, but I can have a look :)

Your chapters are just a list of programs inside a PGC. Each program is a chapter (on the DVD player). Now a program can consist of multiple cells (scenes in the tracks). So it is very common to have multiple scenes in the track, but less chapters. So Chapter1 may play scene 1, scene 2, scene 3. Chapter 2 might play scene 4 only. If you have a DVD with different versions of the movie (directors cut, extended edition etc), you would find that the chapters have the same #of scenes, but directors cut might use PGC1 that plays programs 1,2,4,5,6. The extended edition might use PGC2 that plays programs 1,2,3,4,5,6 (NB the extra chapter3). The programs in each PGC use the same scenes, but PGC1 is missing program3 (which in this case would be an extra scene). BOV can work in the same way.

The jump to chapter from a menu works by the button command linking to a specific program in the title (of the same VTS). To link to a different VTS then the button must link to a PGC in the VMG. This then links to the correct VTS.
A chapter link is commonly LINKPGCN ...pgc# this tells the player to play the whole PGC (until another command breaks the chain); or LINKPGN..program# this tells the player to play a specific program/chapter; or LINKCN...cell# this tells the player to play a specific scene from the current program being played.

phew..

[AmbientMike]

OK - sorted that out.

Two different movies - one had 1 PGC per chapter, the other had 1 PGC for ALL chapters.

The only benefit of creating full navigation for the scenarist script would be to easily visualize where the converted assets have to be replaced - this would be VERY helpful in the instance of multiangle content so you just have to replace the assets after demuxing and converting.

It would be also be very handy if the dummy PGC's had the correct aspect ratio. At the moment they are all 4:3 and you have to change it for every PGC that uses 16:9.

Of course the project can be completed without these things - but automation of them would be cool... but you're obviously a VERY busy man with more important things to do.

...and I am sure that scenarist would not compile until you had replaced your assets, but I can have a look :)So long as there are dummy assets in place (like there already are) I can see no reason for Scenarist failing to complie

Mikey

[D3s7]

I'm actually in the process of mapping out how to add format conversion into Scenaid... Your guide will be very useful in this regard

Thanks

[AmbientMike]

I'm actually in the process of mapping out how to add format conversion into Scenaid... Your guide will be very useful in this regard

ThanksI'm working on a slight revision to the guide for different formats of chapters stored in the main movie and importing chapters - give me a shout if there's anything you need a help with (although I'm guessing you know a load more than I do on this topic)

Mikey

[dgoodbourn]

Wow, just checked out your conversion process on your website. It seems a bit long winded to me ;) And surely most people can't perform the process, as a lot of people don't have Scenarist ;). And for the price of a Scenarist seat, you could buy loads of NTSC/Pal DVDs :sly:

Also, I think that most authoring houses have their own internal tools for conversions, which are probably a lot eaiser and quicker. I know we do :)

Also, why would you want to convert a ripped DVD to/from NTSC/Pal???

Cheers,
D.

[influenza]

Seems like a nice guide. :goodpost:

as a lot of people don't have Scenarist

Hopefully muxman can bring real authoring power to a broader audience somewhere in the near future :)

[AmbientMike]

Hopefully muxman can bring real authoring power to a broader audience somewhere in the near future :)Too true. I tried out Muxman to recreate the missing VTS's - but because scenes in the main movie are often held in different ways in PGC's it causes a problem that sometimes you maybe can only get the 1st chapter.

It's good news to hear that Scenaid is possibly going to support the format conversion process as well.

It's really not that complicated to do the conversion as long as you know how to convert the video, audio and subs - it's really just a case of replacing the missing assets in the Scenarist project (a little understanding of DVD structure is essential though) and then importing all of the commands from the original DVD back into the newly authored project.

Wow, just checked out your conversion process on your website. It seems a bit long winded to me And surely most people can't perform the process, as a lot of people don't have Scenarist . And for the price of a Scenarist seat, you could buy loads of NTSC/PAL DVDs

Also, I think that most authoring houses have their own internal tools for conversions, which are probably a lot eaiser and quicker. I know we doMost quality DVD authoring guides use Scenarist and it is ESSENTIAL for the free version of numenu4u to use it so I don't see it's use in this guide a problem.

I'm sure professional DVD authors don't have to convert a finalized DVD from one format to another - they have all the source files ready to reimport into their DVD structure (although most PAL DVD's are not generally exact copies of their NTSC counterparts (or vice versa)).
Also, why would you want to convert a ripped DVD to/from NTSC/Pal???you obviously don't frequent too many video forums other than this one. One of the most frequently asked questions is from people in the USA who get PAL stuff and want to watch it on their sytems - most NTSC hardware can't play back PAL spec material because their hardware just doesn't support it.

I also like to convert any of my bought NTSC DVD's to PAL so I know I can lend them to friends and family and know that it'll work in their hardware.

Mikey

[influenza]

I tried out Muxman to recreate the missing VTS's - but because scenes in the main movie are often held in different ways in PGC's it causes a problem that sometimes you maybe can only get the 1st chapter.

I have access to both scenaid and muxman versions that can compile an entire dvd. Including button over video and such. Unfortunately nog multi-angles though. Mpucoder is making great advancements.D3s7 is also working on some nice new features in scenaid :)

So hopefully somewhere in the near future that will be a complete solution available to everyone.

[dgoodbourn]

Most quality DVD authoring guides use Scenarist and it is ESSENTIAL for the free version of numenu4u to use it so I don't see it's use in this guide a problem.
But being that Scenarist is NOT free, how are people supposed to use numenu4u without spending a fortune.

D.

[AmbientMike]

But being that Scenarist is NOT free, how are people supposed to use numenu4u without spending a fortune.

D.
If they've not got it they wait until Muxman is advanced enough to do it - then they pay Zeul to get the advanced version of numenu4u. That's out of my hands my friend.

I just wanted to see if I could do the conversion with tools that I had - when I knew I could I posted my 'How-To'. When free / cheap tools are available to do the same conversion I'll probably post another 'How-To'. I would love to be able to do this without Scenarist - but at the moment that is not an option for me...

Mikey

[influenza]

I've done multiple menus with numenu and muxman and so far they all worked great.

[AmbientMike]

I've done multiple menus with numenu and muxman and so far they all worked great.It's not the menus that are a problem - it's completely recreating the navigation of the original DVD that is easy do visually in Scenarist though...

If numenu4u completely recreates the navigation and Muxman can read it then I should be able to switch over to Muxman quite happily.

Mikey

[ancient23]

hi
read with interst
my problem (uk) is getting the ntsc tape onto the pc - there is no colour
i have a friend who lives ib the states an he would send video tapes of the family which wouldnt play on pal setups
i would try to convert for friends here but they were always black & white
anyone knnnnow of a cheap convertor for the tape or is it cheaper to import an usa vcr

regards

[AmbientMike]

You can get VCR's in the UK that can play back NTSC tape on a PAL TV - or in PAL 60 for around £50~80

Converters would cost at least that much.

Mikey

[ElRey]

Two questions (caveat, I only half understand all of this stuff):

In the encoding video section, I don't see a script for Interlaced PAL to Interlaced NTSC. Is there a technical reason for that (eg. wouldn't work or something)?

Any reason to prefer changing the frame rate in Avisynth and reencoding the audio versus just resizing in Avisynth, using DGPulldown (25->29.97), and remuxing the original audio for interlaced PAL to NTSC?