RatDVD?

[ajp]

Just noticed this software. I wonder what it really does.... ?

http://www.ratdvd.dk/

"If it sounds too good to be true...." :p

[KickF]

Just noticed this software. I wonder what it really does.... ?

http://www.ratdvd.dk/

"If it sounds too good to be true...." :p

Hey I have just read about it to and had hoped that someone in here had tested it ... well there is only one way to find it out .. DL and try it yourself hopefully a test of it will soon to bee found on the doom9 site ... I intend to test it myself .. maby I`ll post pictures of the result
:D ... I`ll start with the Matrix DVD ;) and the lobby ;)

[Enots_]

Looks real. I took out a 2 minute sequence out of galaxy quest using DVDShrink's reauthor mode. Used ratDVD to convert it and had it playing back nicely in media player. I then converted it back to a DVD - all worked like a charm. I'm certainly looking forward to testing menus and angles when I get back from work.

"If it looks too good to be true, it might just quack like a duck"

[KickF]

"If it looks too good to be true, it might just quack like a duck"

"If it quaks like a duck it is a duck" :p

I`ll sure read more about the codec he uses ... it not DivX , Xvid ore 264 ... just read what he wrote in the FAQ site :

Why didn't you use a standard codec like XviD, H264?

There are three main reasons I have my own codec. First, I needed to store many of the original MPEG2 features to restore the original. Second, I had this idea that a real transcoder would be better than a decoder/encoder approach.

Third, I wanted to write my own video encoder just for the hell of it. XviD is nice but it's an OLD STANDAR and it'll be outdated soon. Also H.264 and XviD (and other standard codecs) are covered by a wide range of patents and patent pools. I don't like that.


:D LOL do I smell GNU ? ore GPL :confused:

[mezzanine]

I don't know about compression and everything but the name is horrible.

[Leonardo1001]

Actually I like the name... and I start the like to program more and more... BUT, is this the right place for a discussion about it? It is not really about 1 click DVD backup... but than again, maybe I would place it here and in Containers and in new Codecs...

Well, one thing is for sure, I am eager to get other opinions about it from people that tried it out! And personally I would love if one day I could get my downloads with everything that makes a DVD - eventually as ratdvd.

[MaXiMuS]

i am testing RATDVD now so far encoding went ok .I did for testing purpouses used :
"Sound & Vision : Home Theater Tune Up" (DVD5) R1 (NTSC) i chose this disk because it has a lot of menues and different soundtracks including DTS

compressed to 600 MB (about 2 hours compression time)
i was not able to play whole disk ...
right now i am decompressing it to regular DVD5 & i want to see the difference bettwen original and recompressed one ... will post pics later

i am attaching picture of part of structure.. huh...

=====[EDiT]=====
i forgot to mention after decompression from RATDVD back to DVD5 audio is Ac3 92ch)
i will test it with other disk

[jwo62]

I am trying it too. i dont see how to set a destination size. i am trying it with a movie called suspect zero.

how small are we supposed to be able to compress advd?

[Amnon82]

Sounds interesting. Lets see what the Software can do.

[hpn]

cdfreaks.com just posted an article at
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/11893

Sounds interesting, but most likely just another "compress your DVD to a single diskette" project :)

Anyway, the guy claims he has developed his own patents free codec (unlike XviD, H.264 etc.) to do the DVD shrinking.

[danpos]

It seems very interesting and cool ! I'll d/l and will give it a try soon.

I like of tool name so much ! :D

See ya !

[unskinnyboy]

Interesting indeed. Will be interesting to see how the badly authored Asian DVDs fare against this tool, which will be its real fire-test.

[opsis81]

Video quality is very good and audio quality is superb.
I couldn't render the graph automatically with graphedit and all players crashed when I tried to open a ratDVD file with them.Maybe it's a codec conflict in my computer because I have successfully created a grf file from them manually.Zoom Player opened those grf files successfully.
a .ratDVD file is just a zip file.I have successfully unzipped it with winzip and winrar.The video files have the XVO extension.These seem to be mpeg files.Microsoft's MPEG Demultiplexer could split the AC-3 VS audio that they contain and ffdshow Audio Decoder could decode it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Can anybody encode a small 720x480/576 sample and make it available for download please?


Cheers

[unskinnyboy]

Video quality is very good and audio quality is superb.
I couldn't render the graph automatically with graphedit and all players crashed when I tried to open a ratDVD file with them.Maybe it's a codec conflict in my computer because I have successfully created a grf file from them manually.Zoom Player opened those grf files successfully.
a .ratDVD file is just a zip file.I have successfully unzipped it with winzip and winrar.The video files have the XVO extension.These seem to be mpeg files.Microsoft's MPEG Demultiplexer could split the AC-3 VS audio that they contain and ffdshow Audio Decoder could decode it.
What was the space savings like? I am interested to know how much of space is saved from DVD-->ratDVD while setting the 'max quality' settings (if any).

Even though there might be no size prediction per se, over a period of time and a range of materials, we should be able to arrive at a safe estimation.

As SMD said, sample(s) would be nice..:D

[jwo62]

Video quality is very good and audio quality is superb. all players crashed when I tried to open a ratDVD file with them.


So what player did you view the ratdvd file with to determine the video quality was good? or did you just look at stills?

the first movie I tried didnt seem to work right. it played all the previews,without audio,but hung up on the main title. I was using windows media player 10.

[opsis81]

@jwo62
I explained that I created manually a grf file with graphedit and opened the grf file with Zoom Player.Please read more carefully :(
@unskinnyboy
I have made only one complete backup of the hellenic version of Blade Trinity.I used anydvd/clonedvd for ripping it and removing the unwanted titles (with no compression of course) and ifoedit for removing unwanted menus.Then I encoded it with ratdvd using the default settings(value 95).The final ratdvd file was 786 MB.I'm not going to use it until it includes size prediction.But we have to be patient,this rat is newborn,only 3 days in life.

[Leonardo1001]

@opsis81
Why do you need size prediction? I understand it of XviD and the like that are meant to fit on a DVD. However, with ratdvd isn't the really interesting part that it fits to the DVD after "unratting" the .ratdvd file? For me the size of the .ratdvd file is sort of irrelevant... I care more about the quality - and that seems to be fine.

[unskinnyboy]

Agree with Leonardo1001. I don't care about size prediction much. Then we are again talking about CD sizes, DVD sizes, bah! There is enough and more tools for that atm.

What would really be interesting to see is how much of the original DVD quality will ratDVD retain if we 'rat' a whole DVD (menus, extras, trailors etc) setting 'max' quality values, and then compare the size versus the original uncompressed DVD.

[opsis81]

@Leonardo1001
I also care about quality very much,that's why nowdays I'm using DVD+R DL for my DVD backups.I want to use ratDVDs for my HTPC.I want to store them to my 300 GB hard disk.When I say I want size prediction,I don't mean exact size prediction :) .I would like each ratDVD not to exceed 1 GB for example.I'm waiting for a "max file size" option.

[Scarpad]

My guess is this is moreof a Dowload transport tool than anything else, however I'll be testing it. I Wonder about it's server application. If this couldbe useful for a DVD Server tool. WHat I Would Like is to see the Entire DVD compressed to 2GB but be able to play it and have it uncompress in real time and full quality...

[jwo62]

@jwo62
I explained that I created manually a grf file with graphedit and opened the grf file with Zoom Player.Please read more carefully :(

sorry,I thought I did read carefully,I just wanted some clarification.

I understood that you "opened" the grf file you created with graphedit(not familiar with that program) with zoom player(which I dont have either).

The intention of my question was to find out if you played the .ratdvd file successfuly (un modified) and if so,what player.

I guess I should have been more clear

You seemed,to me, to contradict yourself by saying the file crashed every player you tried and also saying the video quality was good. Not being familiar with graphedit,I didnt know that a .ratdvd file converted to grf will give an accurate representation of how the .ratdvd file should play.

Now I do know.


Jim :)

[Leonardo1001]

@opsis81: Understood and agreed. Let's hope for version 2

@Scarpad: Not sure I get it. Yes, ratdvd is a kind of a transport format, but what do you mean with Server application? As I understand it, you can watch the ratdvd files in realtime without converting etc. already...

[opsis81]

Jim I think I should be more clear.
I should explain better what a grf file is :)
After re-registering ratDVD's filters (the ax files that are located in XEB folder) and rebooting everything works OK.I can open ratDVD files in all directshow players including WMP10.In MPC you have to disable the built-in MPEGSplitter to make them work.

[Scarpad]

Ok I did some tests tonight and some more are ongoing. This is an interesting program. Here's what I did. I pulled an episode of Space 1999 off one of the disks. The Ep was about 2.5 Gigs. I chose this show becasue one it's film and two it's quite Large for TV on DVD. I also took Disk 1 of the Show "The Job" and did that. And Right Now I'm doing movie only of Criterion's Disk of "The Rock"

Impressions.

Disk one of "The Job" took about 4 Hours. This was on my Centrino Laptop.
I kept the default 95%. The Result 1.2 Gb. All menu's intact. Now I can only view this on my Laptop, but my Dell 700m has a pretty nice screen. And I compared it to the original. One person said his result was soft. I don't see that. Occasionally you do see some Macroblocking but overall this is a very nice result.

The single Episode of 1999 reduced down from 2.5 Gb to 450mb at 95%.
Once again very close to the original except to the macroblocking. I would say it looks like a very well encoded High Bitrate Xvid, and probably comparable to Nero Digital's Cinema Template.

The Macroblocking may keep this from being usuable on my 96" Projector, but I'm hazarding a guess here that on my 30" Widescreen Samsung I'd be Hard Press to tell the difference. And Keep in mind this is the First release and you can do better than 95% if you'll accept hight file size.

The Negative aspect would definately be that for know you have to use WMP10. I'm hoping eventually more players will be compatible, I personally use Theatertek, but Hell I'd settle for Nero Showtime 2.

I can see this as very usable for someone that wants to encode either Single TV Eps or their entire Disks for a TV Server.

I'll report Back after I see what happens with "The Rock" and see how it looks via the Projector.....

JW I meant this would be a good application to save Movies or TV to a Media server. Look at my "Job" Disk above, the original is Over 8Gb, and the 1.2 GB Rat version is very usable.

I also wonder what happens when you convert the Rat version back to DVD. In my Space 1999 example above Putting it back on DVD it would be 2.5 gb again, so what happens to the macroblocking? Would the reburned DVD be an exact copy of the original or would it show signs of compression? I'll have to test this.

[Chetwood]

@opsis81
Why do you need size prediction?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the main reason for him to release it to be able to download movies from the net (which therefore need to be small) that when 'decompressed' later would fit on a regular DVD (and thus playable on any standalone) keeping all the menus intact? So the smaller you can get the rat file the better and size prediction matters.

[celtic_druid]

Well no. If you are simply aiming for smaller downloads from which you can create a DVD. Then size prediction doesn't matter. It only matters when you are aiming for a specific media, like when you convert the ratdvd back to DVD.

But if on the other hand your aim was to store the ratdvd file on a CD then size prediction would matter.

[Leonardo1001]

Why does someone still want to bother with CDs? To save 0,2 US$? No, I think DVD is the was to go... are CD-Recorders still getting sold?

[eb]

Graph from ratDVD
http://img177.echo.cx/img177/9113/ratdvd2wv.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[celtic_druid]

CD Recorder? What as in standalone audio recorder?
No idea. But CD writers are still being sold and I most certainly still use my CD burners along with my DVD burners. For instance in my car head unit only accepts CD's or ipod's for input. DVD's are not an option.

[Enots_]

Strange graph, Eb. It probably renders it's video and then all them other filters ends up getting connected. I'd say it looks like your computer is full of junk filters with a too high merit that'll connect to anything when you render. Since I doN't have all them filters even installed I know for sure that ratDVD doesn't intend the graph to be that way. Maybe you should clean up your filters?

Anyway I rattet Independence Day yesterday. Complete with all audio, video and menus with default settings. The movie is 7.74 GB in the original covering some 3 hours 2 minutes. I has still as well as motion menus and the movie has seamless branching. It compressed to just short of 2Gb. Playing back in media player work 100%. Converting back to DVD worked like a charm and the DVD played back without any problems. The quality was nice with no too obvious hitches. As for AC3 VS I was unable to distinguish between the original 5.1 and AC3 VS on my PC-speakers. Taking the original DVD and the unrattet to my stereo I was able to hear the difference, in dialog scenes as well as music scores there where no real difference. With surround effects the 5.1 was more "directional" and thus marginally better. But AC3 VS is in my opinion definately an ideal replacement for 5.1 when size matters.

[eb]

Strange graph, Eb. It probably renders it's video and then all them other filters ends up getting connected. I'd say it looks like your computer is full of junk filters with a too high merit that'll connect to anything when you render. Since I doN't have all them filters even installed I know for sure that ratDVD doesn't intend the graph to be that way. Maybe you should clean up your filters?.

You are absolutely right!
It is a good example how "inteligent" M$ system is trying to build filters for players that are based on this system. Main reason why I am using VLC Player.
This graph was not so bad, but in many other cases you can hear from WMP, MPC, mplayer2 super hiper surround efects when players build their filters for audio with Matrix Mixer+AC3Fiter+ multiple ffdshow audio decoders numered up to 10 or more. Again for playback in M$ use VLC !!!.
Main target in my post was to present three basic ratDVD filters together with their pull downs.

eb

[danpos]

@All

Dedicated RatDVD forum at http://forums.afterdawn.com/forum_view.cfm/155

Just for information ... :cool:

See ya !

[jwo62]

Why does someone still want to bother with CDs? To save 0,2 US$? No, I think DVD is the was to go... are CD-Recorders still getting sold?



I thought I could use this program to compress movies to watch on my pc at work.

[gpilot]

I just finished converting a highly interactive dvd with 91 titles, lots of menus, and multiple angles everywhere. It's amazing, but the ratDVD file plays back great in media player and all the interactivity (menus, angles, etc) work just like the original dvd! This dvd would be useless unless you kept all the menus and angles. The original dvd was ~7GB, and the ratDVD file, using all default settings, keeping everything, was ~ 1.8GB. And the quality was great.

[danpos]

@gpilot

Impressive result indeed ! :eek:

See ya !

[denret]

I tried it out.....took 8+hrs to compress a 4.35g movie file to 1.2g. When I tried to watch it via Media Player 10, I got jerky motion and poorly synchronized audio. Also it appears that it will be usefull only for small screen viewing. I then tried to re-expand the file as advertised, and it was on it's way to another 8+hrs session. Thats when I gave up. I found the resulting file pretty much unusable.

I like the idea however, and if anyone knows what I may have done wrong please feel free to call me an idiot.

[jwo62]

I tried it out.....took 8+hrs to compress a 4.35g movie file to 1.2g. When I tried to watch it via Media Player 10, I got jerky motion and poorly synchronized audio. Also it appears that it will be usefull only for small screen viewing. I then tried to re-expand the file as advertised, and it was on it's way to another 8+hrs session. Thats when I gave up. I found the resulting file pretty much unusable.

I like the idea however, and if anyone knows what I may have done wrong please feel free to call me an idiot.


I had similar results with son of mask. but the finished files were still 2.8 gb.

[mrbass]

http://news.com.com/2100-1025_3-5731042.html

[KickF]

everyone says they don`t know where the program comes from ... in the articel I read at a norwegian online IT mag. ( www.itavisen.no ) they told that a group of students in denmark and a grup of students in St. Petersburg.

You can read more about it here ( if you can read norwegian ;) )

http://www.itavisen.no/showArticle.php?articleId=1306273


Bak det nye programmet står studenter ved universitetet i Århus, Danmark - i samarbeid med studenter ved universitetet i St. Petersburg i Russland.


What it say is : Behinde the new program RatDVD stands a group of students from Århus, Danmark which have work togeter whit students in St.Petersburg Russia

I can`t say I have read that in any of the other Online News I have readed

I just thougth you pepz would like to know ... maby some you allready know but what the heck :D

[dragongodz]

from the link mrbass gave
"I don't know what people will use it for; that's an individual decision," said the programmer, who asked to remain anonymous. "I don't think the program does anything illegal, although it certainly could be used illegally."

hmm and yet on the main rat page we have in big bold letters at the top
Welcome to ratDVD - the DVD movie download format
and then further down
RatDVD is the result of my downloading experiences. Downloading movies, even DVD rips never really worked out to what I expected.

so pretty damn clear to me what this programs intended purpose is. as such not suitable for discussion IMHO under rule 6.

[Leonardo1001]

from the link mrbass gave

Quote:
"I don't know what people will use it for; that's an individual decision," said the programmer, who asked to remain anonymous. "I don't think the program does anything illegal, although it certainly could be used illegally."


Like guns

hmm and yet on the main rat page we have in big bold letters at the top

Quote:
Welcome to ratDVD - the DVD movie download format

What is wrong with downloading movies? Aren't there legitimate uses like Cinema Now or T-Online? Wouldn't ratDVD be better than the current "VHS like" MS DRM approach?

and then further down

Quote:
RatDVD is the result of my downloading experiences. Downloading movies, even DVD rips never really worked out to what I expected.

I would agree to that statement. Without ratDVD viewing downloaded movies isn't really like watching DVDs.
so pretty damn clear to me what this programs intended purpose is. as such not suitable for discussion IMHO under rule 6.

Why please?

[dragongodz]

What is wrong with downloading movies? Aren't there legitimate uses like Cinema Now or T-Online? Wouldn't ratDVD be better than the current "VHS like" MS DRM approach?
tell me how many people(not companies) have permission to make the dvds or movies they buy available for download by others. dont bother i already know the answer...none. this isnt a tool for companies to better facilitate a reasonable business model for pay services. its for people to make their complete dvds smaller to download by others.

I would agree to that statement. Without ratDVD viewing downloaded movies isn't really like watching DVDs.
quality of downloaded movies is irrelivent. downloading copyrighted content,such as copyrighted movies(rips or complete dvds), is illegal in most countries and discussion of such things is against this forums rules.

could it have a legal use ? yes if it was used for distributing home movies. considering however it also says things like
Keep movie versions (Directors Cut, Theatrical version, etc.), Alternate story endings, making of, video commentary , cut scenes, etc..
and all pictures on the page are of commercial films there is not even an attempt to suggest a legal use.

[wmansir]

Regardless of the author's intent, I don't think this tool is inherently designed for copyright infringement, at least not any more than many of the tools we discuss here. It has obvious legitamate backup usage potential and is interesting on a purely technical level also. I haven't had a chance to check it out myself, but it sounds very interesting.


@KickF
That is interesting, but,from the language used, the RatDVD website suggests this is the work of one author,.

[wmansir]

@dragongodz

I agree his intent is clear, but as long as the discussion remains about using it as a backup tool and not sharing/shared material, I think it is appropriate.

[opsis81]

I'm sorry dragongodz I don't want to be rude but only moderators can decide what is suitable for discussion and what is not.
Everybody here is talking about making dvd backups that we own with ratDVD to ratDVD format.
Like everybody here is talking about making dvd backups that we own with DVD Rebuilder to DVD-5.
I'm sorry but I can't see any difference.

[Enots_]

I do believe we're all entittled to an opinion about what is appropriate or not for this board, moderator or not. Obviously the moderators ultimately have the responsibillity and thus the priveledge of making the decision.

I'm of the opinion that Doom9 does not nor should it any manner or fasion further the violation of copyrights. Authors are entittled to reap the benefits of what they sow. Like the rest of us.

As for Dragongodz opinion that we shouldn't discuss ratDVD because of rule 6 I couldn't disagree more. There is times when free speech shouldn't apply. Yelling "Fire" in a cinema is one such case. However this is not one of those times. Censorship (and that is what it would be) is a tool that should be used a bit more carefully - except if you're Kim Jong Il or a close friend of Saddam Hussein.

1. To draw inference from your interpretation of the authors intend to that of the users is a gross misrepresentation of the people in this forum.

2. ratDVD has legitimate uses - even in connection with downloads. The movie of somebody's wedding say could be "ratted" and thus easilier distributed over the internet without this being a copyright violation. I find absolutely no reason why we should try to discourage such use. Another possible use would be that of harddisk backups of DVD collections. I couldn't possibly put my 40 movies on my harddisk without compressing them - with ratDVD I just might!

3. Even when ratDVD wouldn't have a legitimate use it would still serve a purpose to discuss it. ratDVD regardsless of how you see it does contain technology which is interesting. I'm convinced that most of doom9 users have an outspoken interest in technical matters - regardless weather they use them or not. I don't use Xvid - it odesn't by a long shot mean I'm not interested in the technology.

4. You may or may not be right about the intend of ratDVD. Judging by an out of context quote from an online interview and the word "download" - is probably a bit of a harsh way to judge people. I believe the entire quote is:
"I don't know what people will use it for; that's an individual decision," said the programmer, who asked to remain anonymous. "I don't think the program does anything illegal, although it certainly could be used illegally." And although I think the statement was unwisely chosen wouldn't this statement not be true for DVDShrink, Nero, Nero Recode, DVDDecrypter, XVid, Matroska and windows explorer (Infact I cannot think of a single tool that is intensely discussed in DOom9 for which this statement wouldn't be true)?

5. It would set a dangerous presidence as to when rule 6 should be applied. Let's not forget that XVid is the tool of choice by internet movie pirates. I think we would be kidding ourselves if we assumed that people didn't use Nero recode to commit copyright violations (The users of Doom9 of cause all don't - but in the real world). DVDShrink, DVDDecrypter and AnyDVD goes even further than ratDVD does because they contain code which is defacto illegal in the majority of the countries from which the users of doom9 comes. And I havn't even gotten to the slippery part yet..... Are you willing to suggest censoring discussing on those programs too, Dragongodz?

[onesoul]

I smell a rat. :D Sorry, couldn't help it. ;)

[Leonardo1001]

@Enots_: I couldn't agree more!

@onesoul: Do we continue with this "good software, good guys" vs. "bad software, bad guys" discussion now involving posters from doom9, or what do we do? We'll see...

[bond]

ok lets try to collect the facts:

1) audio is 2 channel ac3

2) the .ratDVD format is mpg (ps) in a .zip (is it imaginable that they simply use the original .vob from the dvd with reencoded streams?)

3) any info about the video format? the authors claim its a new format. anyone tried playing the unzipped mpg program stream in mplayer, videolan aso?


another thing i saw is that the ratDVD tools look very much like nero's tools (buttons aso...), also their navigator dshow filter looks exactly like nero's dvd navigator filter properties