dual layer dvd9 rite

[ancient23]

:confused:

Hi
Which software writes to dual layer discs
i have recordnowmax v4.5 doesnt appear to
work
regards

ps
is there a highly rrecccommended software that does this
:rolleyes:

[MasterSource]

hi there,

the latest version of nero 6 will happily write to dual layer discs, as will the king of DVD programs - DVD decrypter

no doubt there are many others, but ive found these two work flawlessly

[Zyphon]

Also ImgToolBurn will burn to a DVD9 and this works flawless for me and is very easy to use.

[ancient23]

Many thanx guys

appreciate the help

:D

[Encoder Master]

But you shouldn't Author with NERO because it's very incompatible. Use for this DVDLab or TMPGEnc DVD Author and create an image and this you can burn with Nero but I use for this DVD Decrypter with verifiing option.

[belunt]

I was also wondering what program to use to burn double layer DVDs, I'm doing alot of editing and transfering from VHS and pictures to DVD. I'm currently using Pinnacle Studio V9 does anyone know if there is a way to burn double layers with this program or create the video and then burn (double layer) with a seperate program or is there any like program that will do double layer and still has the same capabilities ie: transitions, adding music, menus, titles? And what is a good Double Layer burning burner, what should I look for; budget is not a major concern.

[ancient23]

HiGuyz STILL getting coastrs

decrypter how do you crete this dvd mds file
i have a 6gb dvds (vobs) file covering my children growing up - used pinnacle studio and tmpegenc dvd auhor
i dont want to split it over 2 dvds - in itslf at this size it is a canny little movie.
reading th forums - or am i wrong - it is best for dual layr to get this in dvd iso form - i assume to get over the 2 layer swtch point

i tried nero but glitched at layer change over using the basic 6gb files = coastr
is there someway in nero you can make dvd friendly iso
read the manual = useless

or do i invest in proggy like magiciso to form user friendly dvd iso

where am i going rong - any ideas

rgards
:devil:

[CWR03]

Others have said Nero 7 supports DL burning and creates the necessary layer break automatically. I have neither Nero 7 nor have tried DL, so I can't confirm this. DVD Decrypter (or ImgBurn) doesn't create the layer break without the .MDS file, which can only be created when decrypting a DVD.

You might consider DVD Shrink - create an ISO file with Nero which you can load into Shrink and fit to a single-layer with minimal quality loss.

P. S. I don't know if it was a mistake or not, but it's not necessary (and it's against the forum rules) to create a new thread to continue a problem - you can still delete the other one.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgBurn does create the layer break IF it's possible - and doesn't already exist. (You're right to say DVD Decrypter doesn't though)

It won't edit the filesystem, that's why I said 'IF' above ;)
The filesystem / layout of the files must already be such that a cell starts on an ECC boundary.

[setarip_old]

i tried nero but glitched at layer change over using the basic 6gb files = coastr
I have had 100% success using NERO v.6.6.xx to burn double layered (Verbatim DL +R) discs from hard drive DVD file "packages" (>IFOs, .BUPs, .VOBs - NOT .ISOs).

Make certain that the lower right corner of the NERO window is displaying something like 8500Mb and not something like 4500Mb - If necessary, click the down arrow next to this amount and select the proper number (THere are only two to choose from)

[ancient23]

thanx for the help

have managed to burn it and it works

have to go thro all th above methods to ee hich is easiest

i'm just wondering if maybe i need a diffeennt burner
cant seem to find recommended media for this model

rgars

[setarip_old]

have managed to burn it and it works
cant seem to find recommended media for this model

It's more important that, as you indicate, you've found media that actually burns properly ;>}

BTW I'm fairly certain that virtually every burner that's capable of burning DL DVD+R can successfully burn Verbatim DL DVD+Rs...

[frank]

First some terms that often mismatched:
Double Layer stands for DVD+R DL media. (DVD+RW Alliance, Philips, HP, Sony, Ricoh)
Dual Layer stands for DVD-R DL media. (DVD Forum, Pioneer, Panasonic)Only the latest drives can handle DVD-R DL.

We speak about DVD-Video content.
With PgcEdit and ImgBurn/DVDDecrypter you can properly burn Double Layer DVD = DVD+R DL. Nero 6 and Gear also do it, if you know what you do.

But on Dual Layer DVD-R media I have got until now only coasters!
ImgBurn/DVDDecrypter cannot handle the Layer Break position on DVD-R DL, size of L0 is unchanged. Nero 6.6.0.18 and CloneDVD 3.6.1.0 (DVD X Studios) have the same issues.
In every case the max. L0 size was unchanged, the content was written until the end of L0 and the rest on L1, regardless of what the LB setting says.
The dvd plays on PC, but that means not that it is compliant to the standard. On a standalone it plays with a break when the laser goes through the layers (in this case at the end of L0, outer radius).

Tested Media: Verbatim DVD-R DL (MKM01RD30),
DVD Identifier reports the Book Type as DVD-R part version 6 (= DVD-R DL)
Drive: Lite-On SHW-16H5S (brandnew)

Why that difference from handling +R DL media??

Don't use DVD-R DL for DVD-Video!

[LIGHTNING UK!]

AFAIK, there is no way to move the layer break position on DVD-R DL media. (Unless you use the 'layer jump' recording method - which I dont)

The only time you're ever supposed to 'shift' the middle area is when burning less than a single layers worth of data - which is of course totally pointless on a double layer disc!

[frank]

Ok, layer jump is useful on PTP media, good for incremental data backups. The 2 layers are written simultaneously and so we get an equal reflexion environment for the reading laser.
But timing is useless for video content!

Why does Nero not give us a warning before burning dvd-video to DVD-R DL?
They never learn...

ImgBurn
Maybe it's better to disable the Layer Break option for DVD-R (DL).
Same to Book Type, (on DVD-R DL = DVD-R part version 6) because unchangeable.

[r0lZ]

Well, it should be possible to burn DVD-R DLs with PgcEdit. Some successful tests have been made in Japan. But you MUST force the number of sectors per layer in the burn setup dialog (last field). The hardcoded value for DVD-R (2092896) should work fine. It forces the gap between VIDEO_TS.IFO or VIDEO_TS.VOB and VIDEO_TS.BUP to be large enough to fill completely L0 with data.

For +Rs, this field must be at 0, which means that the optimal layer break sector must be computed by PgcEdit.

Of course, as I've always said, it's better to use the good technology, +Rs: you have less data to burn, and the layer break is at the right place. The burned +R is therefore similar to a pressed DVD, and with a CD-ROM booktype, you have a good inssurance that it will be recognized by most standalone players. It is obviously not possible to have the same degree of compatibility with DVD-Rs, because of the limitaiton on the LB position, and the lack of booktypes.

Frank, have you tested with this "force layer break" value set? (Remember, this has been heavily discussed in the PgcEdit 0.6 beta thread, with, among others, jinjin_jp.)

[frank]

Yes, I remember the long discussion and know the workaround in PgcEdit.

What I've not seen at this time was a heavy difference between DVD+R and DVD-R.
During DVD-R production process the lead-in is pre-written (pre-embossed). That includes parts of the DVD that contain information about the disk: CSS, booktype, sizes... It can't be modified afterwards, because the laser of your DVD burner simply can't write to this part of the disk.
Therefore on DVD-R, DVD-R DL... you
- never can change the Book Type
- never can change the layer size info
- never can write CSS

During DVD+R production this space is untouched. Only the firmware prevents writing this space. However, there is no limit for writing book type field or layer sizes.

On DVD-R (DL) both the last sector LBA on L0 and the first sector LBA on L1 are fixed. Until last week I didn't realize that fact and thought there was something wrong in ImgBurn... :rolleyes: (and my profession is electronic engineering)

What PgcEdit does is a workaround by shifting the video content until the Layer Break matches the first sector on L1. But in every case the burner has to write the fully size of the two layers = 8.5 GB. :scared:
It seems that PgcEdit is the only program that solved thist crappy -R problem. The result is a fully recorded but compliant DVD!

I have tested Nero 6 and CloneDVD (DVD X Studios) that promise Dual Layer burning for DVD-video. But what they produce is a non-standard, linear recorded DVD. Without any information, or warning! :devil:

Here you can see results from a test on cdfreaks.com
LG GSA-4167B Super Multi DVD-Writer Review - DVD+R DL/-R DL Writing performanceStandalone DVD-Player compatibility: (http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/242/7)
We only have 3 standalone DVD-Players and 1 standalone DVD+R/W recorder available to test the DVD+R DL media (BookType: DVD-ROM) and the DVD-R DL media (BookType: DVD-R) with:

* Aiwa DVD Player XD-DV370
* Medion DVD/Div-X Player MD7457
* Red Star DVD-Player 230G
* Mustek R100A DVD+R/W Recorder

Compatibility results:
All DVD Standalone devices played the LG GSA-4167B burned DVD+R DL medias. But only one DVD Standalone devices would play the DVD-R DL media.I think the problem is not much realized because
- the most user play on PC - that works
- the media is very new

But on standalone this Dual Layer DVD won't work properly!!

[r0lZ]

It seems that PgcEdit is the only program that solved thist crappy -R problem. The result is a fully recorded but compliant DVD!:)

What software was used at cdfreaks.com to do the test?
[EDIT:] Stupid question. I've found the answer on the test page: Nero Burning ROM 6. Should have used PgcEdit! ;)

BTW, since you proved that the workaround used by PgcEdit is sufficient to successfully burn a DL-R, I think I will remove the "Force Layer Break" option, difficult to understand and to access, and replace it by a DL DVD+R/DVD-R selector in the main GUI.

[frank]

Yeah, but the user must set the right size of L0 for DVD-R DL.
I have found on my 4 Verbatims 2 different values!!

[r0lZ]

Right? That's incredible. I thought the layer size of the DL-Rs was constant! They are even more stupid that I thought.

So, I will leave the original option, but change it so that the value is ignored when burning a +R, and used when burning a -R, and add the +R/-R selector on the main page.

Could you give me the values you got? I may add them in the defaults dropdown list.

[frank]

8.5 GB minimum size is the constant on dual -R.
Only the +R specs have a standardized number of sectors.

The first L0 value was equal to that in PgcEdit, the other differed by some hundred sectors. Sorry I made it to garbage.

Better way is to read out the sector numbers as ImgBurn does.
Maybe LUK can write it to the registry.

As I said, the -R DL is NOT suitable.
-R what a pain!

Good night! :tired:

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Ok well after reading this and replying yesterday I went about adding support for Layer Jump Recording - rather than just DAO.

This would have solved the layer break issues on DVD-R DL media.

Trouble is, very few drives seem to support it and on top of that, as documentation isn't that wonderful, I'm having trouble with writing anything on the second layer. All I get is an 'Invalid Address For Write' message from my Pioneer 110. This is burning Verbatim MKM media, and at £4 a go, I'm not prepared to do too much messing around!

So if anyone knows anything about Layer Jump Recording, please tell me what on earth I'm supposed to do in order to get it to work!

I'd assumed one just needed to set the write parameters (Write Type 0x04 - Layer Jump Recording), then either shift the middle area (Send DVD Structure - 0x21), or specify a manual layer break (Send DVD Structure - 0x23). Then you'd just write consecutive LBA addresses (in 16 or 32 sector chunks) until the entire disc had been written. Sync Cache, Close track / disc / session and it would be finished!

Well that doesn't work, so now I'm open to suggestions!

[r0lZ]

Thanks for considering it, LUK!
I know nothing about Layer Jump Recording. Sorry.
The method I use is simply to increase the gaps between files so that L0 is completely filled with data. I suppose that with the Layer Jump method, there is less data to write to the DVD. Anyway, since my method works, and I don't want to support DL-Rs too much, I think I will not change it.
If you implement the Layer Jump method in ImgBurn, could you assure me that the current method will still work?

[frank]

:D I will do some investigation.

But I think the Layer Jump Record (LJR) method was developed for data backup on DVD-R DL (OTP) [edit]media, or for special dual DVD recorders. A method for "multisession" on dual layer dvd. Nero press info May 2005 (http://www.nero.com/enu/PR_2005_05_24.html)
Not recommended for DVD-Video standard. Every jump between the layers needs time, isn't it?

Maybe PCs will play it but I don't believe that standalones will do it.
Hardware players only can use udf 1.02 and the ifo pointers.[deleted]

[ron spencer]

i hope you don't change anything rolz!!! you're method works. if you do change anything please make it a separate menu option and leave what you have alone

[r0lZ]

Don't worry. If I change anything, it will stay compatible with the way it works now.

[ron spencer]

hey I am all for progress, but -r DL is a mess that is likely never going to pan out. I am all for adding it to PGCEdit, but only as a separate module so that +R DL, which works, is left by itself so no monkey business can happen.

this is, of course, just a suggestion

[r0lZ]

-R DL can be burned as well right now. All you have to do is to fill the last field in the burn setup dialog with the right value.
What I want to do is to add a DL +R/-R selector in the main dialog, so that this value is ignored when burning a +R, and used for a -R. This way, it will be easier to switch between medias, and the Number of Sectors in L0 value will not interfere anymore when burning a +R. (Currently, you have to be sure this value is 0.)
It's only a cosmetic change. Nothing will be changed in the engine.

[ron spencer]

ok i get it!!!

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The first zone in LJR media is supposed to be 100% compatible with normal DVD standards. As I'd only be using one zone/border, that's fine for me ;)
The fuji specs kinda tell you how you can use LJR to burn a disc that's basically the same as burning in DAO, only with the bonus of being able to change the layer break (or rather, 'shift' the middle area). LJR with only a single layer jump is pretty much identical (in functionality) to normal DVD+R DL burning. That's why I thought it would be worth my time to implement it :)

I actually found my BenQ 1640 also supports layer jump mode and my engine had no trouble burning the image I gave it. This leads to me believe that there is perhaps some issue with the Pioneer 110 1.37 firmware. I did have a long old play around with the 110 and nothing I did seemed to work - I'm sure it shouldn't be THAT difficult to get it working, which leads me to believe the problem lies with Pioneer even more.

r0lZ,

If you pad the first layer out so it always reaches L0 fixed middle area LBA, the program still uses that.

Basically I've done it so that if the layer break isn't equal to that LBA, the program knows Layer Jump Recording mode is required to accurately position the layer break.

If LJR mode is needed, it then checks to see if the drive supports LJR.
If LJR mode is supported, it enables LJR mode and shifts the middle area to the desired location so that the LB is in the correct place.

If LJR mode is not supported, is displays a message saying so, and that it's not possible to position the LB in DAO mode.

If LJR mode is not needed, it simply keeps using DAO mode.

[r0lZ]

OK, I understand. This means that, with a drive supporting LJR, the -R user will have the choice to create an ISO exactly like for a +R, or continue with the current method. Right?

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Erm... not a 'choice' exactly, well not in terms of 'Use LJR or DAO?' anyway. Seems pretty pointless to offer a choice of something that'll honor LB position against something that wont.
You can force disable LJR in the settings though.

So far as PgcEdit is concerned with passing LB to ImgBurn, it'll work exactly the same - so long as the LBA you pass for padded L0 is the same figure shown as 'L0 Data Zone Capacity:' in ImgBurns little info panel on the right. In such cases, the users wont be prompted for LJR support or lack of.

[r0lZ]

OK. It's exactly what I want! Thanks.

[ron spencer]

anyone know if ANY standalones play -r dl?

[frank]

Ok, the drive must support LJR. And the media?

AFAIK LJR needs PTP pre-formatted DVD-R DL media (addresses of L1 continue from the inner radius). OTP makes no sense for LJR.[deleted]
It wasn't easy to get the specs... 1000 pages, huhhh!
Right, DVD-R Dual Layer specs define only OTP disks.
An address remapping mechanism was developed for Layer Jump recording to adapt UDF file system and ISO 9660 file system.
The player drive MUST support the reading of remapping information.
At the time there are no PTP media available, isn't it?
The Verbatim Dual Layer DVD-R (MKM01RD30) I tested is OTP formatted!

Maybe that's the reason why your tests are failed, LIGHTNING UK![deleted]

[LIGHTNING UK!]

No, just the drive + software need to support it.

LJR is for OTP media, there is no spec for a double layer PTP discs.

In what way does OTP make no sense for LJR? It's meant for allowing data to be equally spaced out over both layers - giving best read compatibility.

Read the FUJI specs if you're not 100% on where/how LJR is used. All their diagrams clearly show it to work in OTP style.

[eriksen76]

I've had same problems with DVD+R DL burning as mentioned before in this thread. When I have a folder with VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders I've tried using imgtool to create an image and then I burned it with Dvddecrypter.

In all but one dvd players I tried it simply freezed at the layer break. The original layer break in the files in the VIDEO_TS had been removed with ifoedit. But I though a new one was created.

Then I started burning with a program called COPY2DVD and that creates a layerbreak (acording to log) and plays flawlessly everytime. I'm not able to see the layerbreak on the burned disc with ifoedit though. (There isn't any according to that program)

Is there a difference between Dvddecrypter and IMGBURN when it comes to creating a "working layer break"??

And will I be able to burn my VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders using the latest build of IMGTOOLCLASSIC 0.91.6 which supports IMGBURN??

What is it with the new feature with IMGBURN that I can select a layer break??

And finally, what is "Layer Jump Recording". Should I make a special setting? I can see a option under "Display warnings"

Many question, hopefully you guys are able to answer them

Thanx

/Eriksen76

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgTool Classic makes no attempt to position a cell on an ECC boundary. That's why double layer discs made with that won't work.

You need to use PgcEdit.

Yes, ImgBurn is much better with layerbreaks. So long as the image has been made properly (as noted above), it will find the correct LBA for the LB by parsing the IFO files.

Layer Jump isn't 100% yet, just ignore it for now.

[eriksen76]

ImgTool Classic makes no attempt to position a cell on an ECC boundary. That's why double layer discs made with that won't work.

You need to use PgcEdit.

Yes, ImgBurn is much better with layerbreaks. So long as the image has been made properly (as noted above), it will find the correct LBA for the LB by parsing the IFO files.

Layer Jump isn't 100% yet, just ignore it for now.

That makes sense, but how do I then make a working image with PgcEdit then which I can burn with IMGBUN?

And what is it with the new feature with IMGBURN that I can select a layer break??

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

As far as I know, ImgTool Classic do not set the layer break for you. And the layer break must be correctly positionned in the middle of the ISO for ImgBurn (or DVD Decrypter.) Though you may have per chance a cell exactly at the right place for the layer break, you cannot rely on this chance! So, you have to use PgcEdit to pre-process the IFOs, and create the right ISO for ImgBurn. (When the IFOs are saved by the burn function, you may use ImgTool classic to create the ISO, but PgcEdit can do it more easily.)
If you have used only ImgTool/ImgBurn in your first try, it is normal that it doesn't work.

Don' t worry about Layer Jump Recording. This technique is not yet implemented in ImgBurn, and concerns DL DVD-Rs, not +Rs.

[EDIT:] Sorry, LUK! I haven't seen your reply.

[r0lZ]

how do I then make a working image with PgcEdit then which I can burn with IMGBUN?
Just open the DVD in PgcEdit, and click on the Burn icon. Then, follow the instructions. You will be prompted to select the layer break cell.
See the guide here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm).

[eriksen76]

Just open the DVD in PgcEdit, and click on the Burn icon. Then, follow the instructions. You will be prompted to select the layer break cell.
See the guide here (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm).

Thanx for the tip, the guide just tells me to use "ImgTool Classic version 0.91.5". Why is this needed. According to Lightning UK Dual Layer burning should not be possible using that program.

I thought I should just create an image with Pgcedit and burn with IMGBURN for a working DL backup??

Other thing, the guide tells me to enable the "When saving leave atleast 32K.......". Is that nessesary?

Sorry for being such a newbie, but I'm learning.

/Eriksen76

[LIGHTNING UK!]

It uses mkisofs from the ImgTool Classic package, that's all.

[r0lZ]

Yes, it's right. ImgTool Classic is not really needed, but you must install it on your computer, because PgcEdit uses MkISOFS.exe, distribued with ImgTool Classic, to generate the ISO.

(BTW, this is why you can also create and burn the ISO with ImgTool: it uses exactly the same method. But you still have to modify the IFO files so that the ISO will be correctly created, and for that step, you need PgcEdit. And, as I said, it's easier to use PgcEdit alone, because it will take care of everything for you: exclude the backup files, if any, from the compilation, create VIDEO_TS if it doesn't exists, launch MkISOFS and ImgBurn when needed, and even add 32KB gaps between IFO and BUP files, if you want so.)

[eriksen76]

Thanx for explaining. "Will the 32KB gaps between IFO and BUP files" be needed?

And one last thing. The guide told me something about that when I've set the layer break value I have to remember the value and insert it to IMGBURN before burning the DL. Is this also nessesary making the hole thing work?

And I guess its the path to IMGBURN and not Dvddecr. that I have to set, right?

/Eriksen76

[r0lZ]

No, it's not really needed, but it's highly recommended: your DVD will be more or less protected against scratches and defects.
It's an option because some bad burning programs (notably Nero) are not able to deal with the 32K gaps. But with the excellent MkISOFS/ImgBurn combo, you may safely use this option.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Just to make things clear to eriksen76, PgcEdit does special stuff to pad the image to ensure a cell starts on an ECC boundary on the disc. That's a requirement for nice DL burns.

ImgTool Classic doesn't do that - so in that sense, you CANT use it to create and burn the ISO. (It's perfectly fine for single layer discs though!)

32kb gaps means nothing if there is no cell on an ecc boundary!

The LB is passed to ImgBurn via CLI now so there is no need to remember anything. This is a left over from DVD Dec. days.

ImgBurn can also find the LB PgcEdit intended to be used by parsing the IFO files, should you decided to not let PgcEdit initiate the burn

[r0lZ]

And I guess its the path to IMGBURN and not Dvddecr. that I have to set, right?
Yes, in the burn setup, you have to set the path to ImgBurn and MkISOFS (and optionally Daemon Tools.)
You can still use DVD Decrypter instead of ImgBurn to burn the ISO, but it is highly recommended to use ImgBurn.

[r0lZ]

The LB is passed to ImgBurn via CLI now so there is no need to remember anything. This is a left over from DVD Dec. days.That's right, too. I have just removed this old stuff when PgcEdit detects that ImgBurn is used. The new version 0.6.2 is ready, and will be available very soon, probably tomorrow.

[eriksen76]

Thanx for all you help. One tiny thing left.

If I want to use Pgcedit to create the iso, but I just want the .iso on Hd waiting to burn another day maby.

In that case, can just follow the guide and making the .iso with Pgcedit and burn the .iso with IMGBURN like I normally do with Dvddec.. "Iso write options".

Doing it that way, will IMGBURN do the layer break thing correctly or is there a special setting I need to be aware of??

Thanx again for your help

/Eriksen76