General RealProducer Audience Selection Guide

[nathanmoorehead]

Since RealMedia 10 has been released I have experimented with all of the RealProducer Basic 10 VBR audiences. If you, like me, would like information on the various audiences and their resulting sizes please refer to the attached PDF. I chose PDF format because Adobe Acrobat Reader is freely available for a majority of PC users (linux/apple/microsoft/etc) from here http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

* Apparently PDF is not a valid format for attachment on this forum, the file has now been zipped. You can unzip this file using several archive managers, here is a link to a freely available one: http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

*attachment removed until I recalculate the values, which I did not calculate properly

[Sirber]

Best use your own settings with another GUI. Those "audience" are not the best and are outdated feature-wize.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82042

[karl_lillevold]

attachment approved... Nice table of bitrate calculations -> filesize.

[Sirber]

I don't quite agree with you about CQ (Constant Quantizer / Quality) numbers for animation:

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42

Also, using CQ for movies is totally insane. Resulting filesize is totally impredictable. Also, please note that CQ is in no way related to a specific bitrate.

[nathanmoorehead]

Thankyou, I may have been a bit too accurate for the audiences being variable, so they shouldn't be taken too seriously. I was wondering where my attachment went when I posted it, I didn't realize the process involved approval. As far as the 'use your own gui' comment, I'm not one to use modified software.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by nathanmoorehead
As far as the 'use your own gui' comment, I'm not one to use modified software. I said use your own settings with another gui. GUIs are not modified software, they are Graphical User Interface that uses Helix Producer commandline application or the SDK. RealAnime for exemple is in Delphi 7, AutoRV10 is in VB6, both use the commandline version of Producer which is in C++.

[nathanmoorehead]

I don't know about constant bitrate considering I have always heard variable bitrate with 2 pass encoding was the best choice for every digital format.

[karl_lillevold]

Originally posted by Sirber
Also, using CQ for movies is totally insane.
That's not quite true. Like I mentioned in another thread, I prefer to set bits/pixel, this is somewhat like constant quality, in that different content gets to be different filesize.

[nathanmoorehead]

Originally posted by Sirber
I said use your own settings with another gui. GUIs are not modified software, they are Graphical User Interface that uses Helix Producer commandline application or the SDK. RealAnime for exemple is in Delphi 7, AutoRV10 is in VB6, both use the commandline version of Producer which is in C++.

WOW, this forum is active! I realize that a GUI does not effect the actually encoder, however, nonetheless, the GUI Realnetworks provides seems the most logical to use.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by nathanmoorehead
I don't know about constant bitrate considering I have always heard variable bitrate with 2 pass encoding was the best choice for every digital format.
Rate(VBR kbps) % Quality Use
350 60
450 70
750 80 Animation
1000 90 VHS
2000 95 DVD
5000 100 Mission Critical
I ment that table. CQ 60 may produce 100kbps, 400kbps or 1000kbps or any number above 0 of average kbps (VBR), depending on the source.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
That's not quite true. Like I mentioned in another thread, I prefer to set bits/pixel, this is somewhat like constant quality, in that different content gets to be different filesize. With b/px, you can predict the final size. Not with CQ :)

[Razorblade2000]

Cool that you made the effort to create the document...

But the bitrate -> size part is just... uhmmm... wrong

your document tells me:
bitrate 350 kbit/s
video 4800 sec
----------------------
size: 242 MB


basic math tells me:
bitrate 350 kbit/s
video 4800 sec
------------------
--> (350 / 8 / 1024) * 4800
= 205 MB

[nathanmoorehead]

This is how I did my math,

64kb (one second of audio) * 4800s (seconds in video)=audio size
350kb (one second of video) * 4800s (seconds in video)=video size

307200kb (one movie worth of audio) + 1680000kb (one movie worth of video)=1987200kb (one RMVB file of audio/video) / 8 (248400KB)(8 bits to a byte) / 1024 (242.578125MB)(1024 bytes in a megabyte)

---

Of course these numbers should not be taken too seriously because we are talking about variable bitrates, however, they are correct if you assume the encoder followed a constant rate of 64kbps for audio and 350kbps for video.

[nathanmoorehead]

To clear things up, I removed the % quality section, it was wrong. I also switched this "Movie (4800sec/80min)" to this "Movie (80min/4800sec)." All other values are the same.

(perhaps this should be stripped of all replys (including mine), locked and stickied)

[Razorblade2000]

Originally posted by nathanmoorehead
This is how I did my math,

64kb (one second of audio) * 4800s (seconds in video)=audio size
350kb (one second of video) * 4800s (seconds in video)=video size

307200kb (one movie worth of audio) + 1680000kb (one movie worth of video)=1987200kb (one RMVB file of audio/video) / 8 (248400KB)(8 bits to a byte) / 1024 (242.578125MB)(1024 bytes in a megabyte)

---

Of course these numbers should not be taken too seriously because we are talking about variable bitrates, however, they are correct if you assume the encoder followed a constant rate of 64kbps for audio and 350kbps for video.


ahh... ok...
You gotta take into consideration:
The audiences are named after their TOTAL Bitrate (Audio + Video)!
--> 350k audience = X kbit/s Video and y kbit/s Audio = 350 kbit/s

[notags]

Hmm.... I didn't know there were still people using the official Real Producer these days :eek:

[Sirber]

Yeah. Last time I used it it was 2½ years ago. GUIs are by far better... feature-wize and quality-wize.

[nathanmoorehead]

Originally posted by Razorblade2000
ahh... ok...
You gotta take into consideration:
The audiences are named after their TOTAL Bitrate (Audio + Video)!
--> 350k audience = X kbit/s Video and y kbit/s Audio = 350 kbit/s

Darn, you are right, so now I have to recalculate all those numbers...darn!

[karl_lillevold]

No need. You can use a bitrate calculator, as suggested by Sirber, or the excel spreadsheet I just made, see post below (or next page).

[Sirber]

Why not just posting a bitrate calculator?

[edit]

A web-based one :)
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/videostream_bit_calc2.html

[karl_lillevold]

Simple excel bitrate calculator attached.

EDIT: added section for bits/pixel -> Video bitrate