DVD Rebuilder 0.93 PRO Undersize problem

[Djuby]

jdobbs,

I just tried v0.93 PRO with a series disk (Everybody loves Raymond Season 3 Disk 2) and the result came out very undersized. Just wanted to let you know.

Djuby


-------------------
Ignorance is bliss.

[Fishman0919]

Djuby, what encoder are you using... do you have "Steal space from Extras" or "Half D1" on??

[Fishman0919]

Djuby, what encoder are you using... do you have "Steal space from Extras" or "Half D1" on?? Any and all info would help


Edit: opps...lol

[Djuby]

Fishman0919,

I am using CCE SP 2.70.02. No "Steal space from extras" or "Half D1" enabled.

Djuby



-------------------
Ignorance is bliss.

[camelx]

I set dvdrebuilder to do a complete FULL copy with the exception of DTS and lang subtitles.

Original: Primus Hallucino Genetics
size: 7.662 gig

Post dvdrebuilder size 3.387 gig

No movie only selections, No steal space %, No half D1 or half size

I've been using it for a long time now, do a lot of episodic discs and I'm very aware of those settings.

Thanks in advance!!

[TECK]

Try in Hidden Options, CCETargetSectors=2260000. It's the safest value I found, it works for me in every movie to get the perfect size.

For more info on this hidden option, read the stickies.
Cheers.

[Djuby]

I've been using the same settings for a very long time with Rebuilder. The only thing that changed from the last backup I made was the Rebuilder application version.

Djuby



-------------------
Ignorance is bliss.

[t3rror]

I am going to second this. I just finished backing up GIJOE Season 1 Part 2 Disc 1. It holds 8 episodes. Only the 4th episode was actually re-encoded. The other 7 were missing. I am using CCE 2.70.something and I did have Movie and Menu only with a 3pass set. I used one click mode and was trying out the new make iso feature. Jdobbs, I love the new version. Just wanted to let you know there may be a problem. I used the Installer also.

**Removed my log file since it was irrelevant**

[Tore]

WHY do use "movie and Meny Only" when backing up an episodic disc???

When using this mode DVD-RB assumes the biggest VTS / episode to be the main movie.

And all the other episodes are blanked.

From your log:
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 54.9%
- Overall Bitrate : 2,849Kbs
- Space for Video : 3,593,966KB
- Movie improvement from extra reduction = 55.9%
- Blanking all EXTRA Segments

[Djuby]

I just tried it again with series disk and the problem was there again. I did not select any special treatment of the disk.


Djuby

[Tore]

There have been reported some problems with v2.70 of CCE IIRC.

Maybe you could try v2.50 or 2.67?

[alfixdvd]

From new 0.93


- Changed the "MPEG Standard" matrix so it is updated to what is generally considered more "standard" today. In order to update it, you can just delete the file "MPEG Standard.mtx" from the MATRIX directory under the DVD-RB installation path. DVD-RB will see it is missing and update it when next started.


If you use matrix Mpeg Standard, perhaps the new "MPEG Standard" matrix it causes undersize problem.

[Djuby]

Tore,

I've been using 2.70.02 since it's out and never gave me a problem. I am doing a recode with v0.92 PRO right now. I'll post the result. The matrix used is the decoder default.

Djuby

[alfixdvd]

The matrix used is the decoder default.


It is Encoder matrix default. For CCE is Mpeg Matrix Standard.

[jdobbs]

@djuby

Nothing has changed in Rebuilder that would affect sizing. I've done about 20 discs with this version in testing and haven't gotten undersizing on any.

There's something peculiar going on with that disc.

Could you please send your rebuilder.inf, rebuilder.ini, and rebuilder.ecl files to dvd-rb@dvd-rb.com?

[t3rror]

I don't know what I was thinking when I first tried this last night. I ran it again overnight without movie and menu only. Everything looks great now. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Djuby]

I just did the problem disk with v0.92 PRO and it came out perfect. No sizing problem whatsoever.

@jdobbs,

I am sending you the requested files.


Djuby

[jdobbs]

Are the files from the 0.92 encode or the 0.93 encode?

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Djuby
I just did the problem disk with v0.92 PRO and it came out perfect. No sizing problem whatsoever.

@jdobbs,

I am sending you the requested files.


Djuby Could you try it one more time with v0.93 and see if it repeats? Is it the NTSC version? Also, did the other discs in that series come out sized correctly?

[Djuby]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Are the files from the 0.92 encode or the 0.93 encode?

@jdobbs,

The files are from v0.93 Pro encode. I did the disk with v0.92 PRO and size came out right. I'll try it again with v0.93 PRO. And yes this is the NTSC version of the series.

Djuby

[jdobbs]

Thanks.

[jdobbs]

@Djuby

If you have the files from the 0.92 encode, it would help if you could send them as well. Maybe by looking at the two I can find a difference.

Thanks.

[Djuby]

Originally posted by jdobbs
@Djuby

If you have the files from the 0.92 encode, it would help if you could send them as well. Maybe by looking at the two I can find a difference.

Thanks.


Just sent them.


Djuby

Edit: Finished recode of the same disk with v0.93 PRO and the size came out right. Can't explain it. I just unzipped the files over v0.92 and did the recode.

[jdobbs]

Thanks. It's good to know that it came out right the second time with v0.93.

[Aladdin]

(First of all, since this is my first post, I would like to thank jdobbs for his excellent work on RB; it's one mean piece of coding)

In order to help iron out the last problems before 1.00, I'm reporting a serious undersize problem (3.5 GB) with backing up Der Untergang R2 (dutch). It's a dvddecrypter iso rip mounted using daemon tools. So no preprocessing whatsoever.

I manually deselect all audio and subtitle tracks from all VTS' except for the DTS audio and dutch subtitles on the main VTS. After prepare, I blank out all content except for the main movie (which just leaves the complete main VTS). I'm using HC as the encoder. No filters, no stealing from extra's or anything. I simply press 'encode' and afterwards 'rebuild' and end up with a 3.5GB dvd. Other dvd's processed the same way don't have this problem.

I had this problem with version 0.90 and tried again now with 93.2 and the result is identical. The #004 error I had with this same dvd is fixed now, though :)

[18:30:37] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- HC encoder selected
- VTS_01: 29.821 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.297 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_02: 3.404.535 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 223.230 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_05: 62.205 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 4.045 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_06: 40.911 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 3.113 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_07: 33.068 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.330 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_08: 27.817 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.175 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 55,6%
- Overall Bitrate : 2.785Kbs
- Space for Video : 3.225.140KB
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 3.382/546/2.785 Kbs

The main VTS is just under 7GB. Deleting all the extra VTS' results in an average bitrate of just under 3000. The 'space for video' value seems to be too low considering I selected only 1 DTS track (the menu makes up around 355MB). But that still doesn't explain a 800MB undersize.

[edit]: The DTS track is 833 MB, just about the amount of undersizing. Perhaps that gives some insight.

Any ideas?

[TECK]

The problem is not comming from DBD-RB, but from CCE. Upgrade to 2.70.02.01 and your sizing problem is fixed.
I used to have this problem also, until I upgraded to the version above.

[Aladdin]

Thanks TECK, but I'm not using CCE; I'm using HC. And I don't have the same problem with other dvd's, just this one.

[Chelu]

Hmm, i had just the opposite results. I was backing up a pre-processed 'Darkness' with 93.2 PRO and CCE 2.70.02.0 and when finished it was about 500mb undersized. I did it with same CCE and 92 PRO with same results. I switched to 93.2 and HC and the backup came out to the full dvd-r size. Maybe a little too full though since IMGTool classic says it is 9mb over a single layer size. So i dont know, HC worked for me while with CCE it was the first time i ever got undersized. Maybe check your targetsectors=, I erased that line from my .ini for all three attempts

[Aladdin]

Anyone?

(I didn't change any of the .ini settings, btw)

[jdobbs]

I manually deselect all audio and subtitle tracks from all VTS' except for the DTS audio and dutch subtitles on the main VTS. After prepare, I blank out all content except for the main movie (which just leaves the complete main VTS). You do both of these things with DVD Rebuilder, or some other tool?

[Aladdin]

I only use DVD rebuilder for the whole process (after the ISO rip with dvddecrypter, of course)

[feedback]

I believe HC has a inherent problem with undersizing.
However, all you have to do is use the hidden options to set the
HCTargetSectors=2261000 in the Rebuilder .ini. (that is the value I use). Look in the Help section of DVD-RB for further information on Hidden Options.

One thing, make sure you put the HCTargetsectors=xxxxxxx just beneath the OPTIONS section in the Rebuilder ini.

Regards,:)

[Aladdin]

Thanks for your input, but the targetsectors hidden setting is there to be able to stretch out to those last couple of mb's for the people who care about that. It's not there to correct a 800+ mb undersize problem.

I'll do another run tonight with the automated 'movie and menu only' mode. I'll report any (lack off) differences...

[edit]
In the highlighted lines below, are the 'before' and 'after' values supposed to be the same?

[edit2]
jdobbs, on a sidenote: there still are 4 quality settings in the HC encoder settings menu, but Hank315 reduced that to just 3 settings. It's only cosmetic, as HC will default to the nearest setting, but you might want it ironed out before going 1.00.

-----------------
[21:17:49] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- HC encoder selected
- "Movie and Menus Only" mode is enabled.
- VTS_01: 29.821 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.297 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_02: 3.404.535 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 223.230 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_05: 62.205 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 4.045 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_06: 40.911 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 3.113 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_07: 33.068 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.330 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_08: 27.817 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.175 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 55,4%
- Overall Bitrate : 2.774Kbs
- Space for Video : 3.212.238KB
- Blanking all EXTRA Segments
-- Feature before/after: 2.958 / 2.958 Kbs
[21:22:37] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 5 minutes.

[jdobbs]

That's odd... if anything at all was blanked you'd expect the bitrate to change, could you post a directory of the original disc.

[feedback]

on a sidenote: there still are 4 quality settings in the HC encoder settings menu, but Hank315 reduced that to just 3 settings. It's only cosmetic, as HC will default to the nearest setting, but you might want it ironed out before going 1.00.



@Aladdin:rolleyes:

jdobbs knows about the HC quality settings issue. I told him about it a long time ago Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94160)

He is working on more pressing problems.

[Aladdin]

@feedback:rolleyes:

Please accept my sincerest apologies for mentioning something you have already mentioned 'a long time ago'. Especially since I explicitly mentioned it as a sidenote. Come on, we're all trying to help here, aren't we?

@jdobbs

All the VTS' in that list are actually blanked (except for VTS 2, of course). And the bitrate actually has been increased: the overall bitrate was 2.774Kbs. It's just strange that it displays the same values for 'before' and 'after'.

The automated 'movie and menu only' run last night completed with the exact same result as my 'manual' run. I simply selected the dvd folder, selected the 'movie and menu only' mode, deselected the dolby track on the main VTS (leaving a dts track) and clicking prepare followed by encode. Nothing else. I monitored HC while encoding some segments and it seemed to hit the target bitrate spot on.

[edit]
Correction: this morning I only quickly checked the size of the encoded video fragments and that was exactly the same as before. But now that I've done a rebuild, the final dvd is nicely on target with 4,30GB. If the video is the same size, only the audio can make the difference. Stupidly I didn't check if my previous attempt had any audio in the output. I'll do another run tonight with manually deselecting and blanking the extra's like I did before to see if I can reproduce the problem.

[edit2]
I was not able to reproduce the problem. My latest run with manual selection came out just fine at 4.3GB. The only thing I've changed during all this is the mode ('movie and menu only' or normal); I've left all other settings as they were. I've done two previous rebuilds with these settings that resulted in the undersize. The only thing different that I can think of is that in my previous attempts I didn't let it run overnight, but stopped and resumed the process two or three times. Could it be that the audio track selection is not reloaded properly after restarting DVD rebuilder after it has been interrupted? It did show the right checkmark in the audio track selection box. Ah, what the heck, I'll just do another run to test just that :) (I'm not giving in to user error just yet, since I double checked everything during the last rebuild that went wrong)

The dir listing:
16-03-2005 23:34 20.480 VIDEO_TS.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 20.480 VIDEO_TS.IFO
16-03-2005 23:05 157.696 VIDEO_TS.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 28.672 VTS_01_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 28.672 VTS_01_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:05 163.840 VTS_01_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:06 61.073.408 VTS_01_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 108.544 VTS_02_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 108.544 VTS_02_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:05 372.338.688 VTS_02_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:06 1.073.565.696 VTS_02_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:10 1.073.565.696 VTS_02_2.VOB
16-03-2005 23:14 1.073.565.696 VTS_02_3.VOB
16-03-2005 23:18 1.073.565.696 VTS_02_4.VOB
16-03-2005 23:22 1.073.565.696 VTS_02_5.VOB
16-03-2005 23:26 1.073.565.696 VTS_02_6.VOB
16-03-2005 23:30 531.093.504 VTS_02_7.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_03_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_03_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:06 157.696 VTS_03_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:33 223.232 VTS_03_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_04_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_04_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:06 157.696 VTS_04_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:33 223.232 VTS_04_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_05_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_05_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:06 157.696 VTS_05_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:33 127.395.840 VTS_05_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_06_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_06_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:06 157.696 VTS_06_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:33 83.785.728 VTS_06_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_07_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_07_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:06 157.696 VTS_07_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:33 67.723.264 VTS_07_1.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_08_0.BUP
16-03-2005 23:34 18.432 VTS_08_0.IFO
16-03-2005 23:06 157.696 VTS_08_0.VOB
16-03-2005 23:34 56.969.216 VTS_08_1.VOB
41 File(s) 7.744.024.576 bytes

[feedback]

the targetsectors hidden setting is there to be able to stretch out to those last couple of mb's for the people who care about that. It's not there to correct a 800+ mb undersize problem.

@aladdin
It was this gauche comment that piqued my response. As you said, we're all trying to
help here, aren't we?:sly:

[Aladdin]

@feedback

You conveniantly left out the Thanks for your input part of that quote. But, although I still think it wasn't a realistic suggestion to use the targetsectors setting to correct a 800MB undersize problem, I would agree with you that I could have stated it in a different manner. You were, indeed, just trying to help.

Can we leave it at that?

[feedback]

@aladdin

conveniantly :confused: I believe you mean conveniently.

Still, I am not one to waste time with inane blather. So, yes we can leave it at that.

Au revoir,

[Aladdin]

@feedback

Indeed I did. Thank you for correcting me. So, how's your Dutch these days?

--

As for the undersize problem; I was not able to reproduce it in any way. Seems this was all a complete waste of time...sorry.

[feedback]

@aladdin

So, how's your Dutch these days?
About as good as your, apparent, technical acumen. LOL

[Rockas]

@feedback
@Aladdin

Well... I don't want to look like your "father" here but... I'm getting a little tired of... getting e-mail messages about new posts on this thread... and "read" private messages between you... use the PM function... the button is there to be used... and guess what... it's free :D :p

ps. I'm portuguese... so ... please forgive my english... since you're on the corrections mood ;)

[jptheripper]

you do realize that the m2v segments out of hc are video only correct? therefore the size of the should be dvd size - audio and menu size

[Aladdin]

you do realize that the m2v segments out of hc are video only correct? therefore the size of the should be dvd size - audio and menu size

Yes, of course. The 3,5GB was always about the final output. A little over 3GB is video (which is more or less correct for a 2,5 hour movie @ +-3000 Kbs) and the menu comes to about 350MB. This leads me to believe the audio was not muxed into the final output. Unfortunately I can't check this anymore, since I didn't save a copy of the undersized result. And even though I have an education at university level in computer science (sorry, can't help myself :p), I was not able to reproduce the original problem.

It must have been user error even though I have no idea how to reproduce it on purpose. And I apparently repeated the same error three times in a row over several weeks, doing a clean installation of DVD Rebuilder in between, double checking the settings the second and third runs. In other words; I'm at a complete loss as to the origin of the problem. Which still makes this a complete waste of time...