Low Compression >80% DVDrebuilder Vs Shrink?

[SpazzHH]

If I am not mistaken, the suggested Prec_Q should be set to 16. Some CCE versions use a scale of 0-64, others 0-100. Rebuilder automatically adjusts the number in CCE according to your version, so you don't need to make the adjustment yourself.

[casperse]

Originally posted by onesoul
I recommend not using any optional settings if you are not absolutely sure what you are doing. For example this movie I highly doubt that it is interlaced, even if it is flagged interlaced. If that's the case I suggest you use the setting "disable interlaced" on the respective vts. That way the encoder will see it as progressive and dvd-rb will flag it as progressive.

Even if it was interlaced, I wouldn't recommend deinterlacing. And it sure did have a negative impact in your test.

I suggest you try the "disable interlaced" setting and following settings:
- gop 12 2
- cce standard matrix
- 2 pass
- vbr_bias=35
- quality_prec=16 for cce 2.67 and if you use cce 2.70 try quality_prec=25

If you can I'd suggest you use cce 2.70 although it is reported to be buggy due to some missing frames, so use it with care.

One last note:
If you had really a interlaced movie, I would strongly suggest using HC encoder (Edit: or Quenc), had much better results with it.

Cheers

Hi onesoul

I would really like to get your input on settings for "Alexander" a movie that blows my settings (Yes I know you can only do so much when the bitstream is limited)

This is what I have after Editing:
Menu = 45MB
Movie = 6413MB (This is including 512MB 5.1 Sound + 12MB subs)
So I have a Approx 4465MB - 512MB -12MB -45MB menu = Approx 3895MB Left

This means I have 5889MB Movie that have to fit 3895MB.

I have cropped with settings Overscan 3, to squeze as much to picture quality as possible. (NO RESIZING! Aspect Ratio Error = 0%)
****************************
Crop(24,80,672,416)
AddBorders(24,80,24,80)
****************************

Settings: (Movie: Alexander)
CCE SP 2.7 (I have tried it an as you said it is excellent!)
QP = 16
VBR Bias = 40 (Tried it and it looked much better than when I did it with 25!)
Pass = 4
DC Presicion = 9
Q Matricies = Standard
And I have used RB-OPT to Compress The End TXT to a absolute maximum!
Giving more space to the actual movie.

(Im still a Newbie here and dont know if this Q Matricies should be altered?)

Any suggestions ? :D

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Edsel
And the defaults would be... ?

I've got Bias 25, Quality 24, but I think I changed them on advice of some posters here before. If you go into your REBUILDER.INI file and delete those lines, the defaults will be used.

[onesoul]

@ casperse

Your settings seem fine to me and as long you like the results that's cool :cool:.

Personally I wouldn't do any cropping because I like to keep every video information, imagine one day you will be seeing the movie using a projector :) and most important, you are cropping precious vertical resolution (unless we were talking about a 2.35:1 movie but I wouldn't crop anyway)!

I really like cce standard matrix, I use it with everything, QLB is very similar and I use it when avg bitrate of the feature is around 2000-2500.

The last suggestion I give to you is that 4 pass isn't really necessary, generally I go with a 2 pass maybe 3 sometimes if you feel it's a hard movie but then again if you can afford the time let it pass away, harm it won't do :).

In the end it's all subjective and you should use what you find best.

[casperse]

Originally posted by onesoul
Your settings seem fine to me and as long you like the results that's cool :cool:.

I Do! :D
I was thinking about changeing the VBR Bias = 40 to 45 to see if it changes something, could see the differens with 25/40! Nice


Personally I wouldn't do any cropping because I like to keep every video information, imagine one day you will be seeing the movie using a projector :) and most important, you are cropping precious vertical resolution (unless we were talking about a 2.35:1 movie but I wouldn't crop anyway)!

Hmm If I only Crop the ORG and keep Overscan at 1 then it would be the same, only fifferent would be that the Black bars would be Macro Block "optimized" or did I get this wrong? That way I dont scrue with the aspect right?


I really like cce standard matrix, I use it with everything, QLB is very similar and I use it when avg bitrate of the feature is around 2000-2500.[/B]

QLB? :D What about DC Presicion = 9 or as default 10? & GOP=12


The last suggestion I give to you is that 4 pass isn't really necessary, generally I go with a 2 pass maybe 3 sometimes if you feel it's a hard movie but then again if you can afford the time let it pass away, harm it won't do :).

I only do this because I sometime get oversized result when I use passes lower than 4 :D and have size set to = CCETargetSectors=2260000 (A sidenote CC 2.7 Oversizes alittle more so I now have it at CCETargetSectors=2250000 and am testing it right now, didnt have any problems with 2.67 I guess something is changed)

[onesoul]

Originally posted by casperse
I Do! :D
I was thinking about changeing the VBR Bias = 40 to 45 to see if it changes something, could see the differens with 25/40! Nice Between bias 40 and 45 you won't be able to see much difference but if you feel that some sequences (at low bitrate, scene transitions and fading in/out) could be improved I suggest you test that clip using each setting.

Hmm If I only Crop the ORG and keep Overscan at 1 then it would be the same, only fifferent would be that the Black bars would be Macro Block "optimized" or did I get this wrong? That way I dont scrue with the aspect right? I bet you are using fitcd or fitdisk, right? :) Which is fine and will do a good job but in my opinion it isn't worth to mess wih cropping.

QLB? :D What about DC Presicion = 9 or as default 10? & GOP=12 In my tests I opted for choosing a dc precision of 9 which is a good value for medium bitrate and a good compromise between high motion/low motion features (dc 10 would best for low motion and dc 8 for high motion). Stick with dc 9.

QLB is Quenc Lower Bitrate which is a tweaked matrix by dragongodz, you can find it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91821&highlight=qlb).
For using QLB in DVD-RB you can use Rocka's Rebuilder's Matrix Editor, you can find it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=629239&highlight=quenc+lower+bitrate#post629239).

As for GOP, in my experience I find 12 2 (in cce you would choose M=3 and N/M=4) the best default, and as recommended I would only use GOP 15 2 (M=3, N/M=5) with NTSC (29.97 fps) pure interlaced material.

I only do this because I sometime get oversized result when I use passes lower than 4 :D and have size set to = CCETargetSectors=2260000 (A sidenote CC 2.7 Oversizes alittle more so I now have it at CCETargetSectors=2250000 and am testing it right now, didnt have any problems with 2.67 I guess something is changed) [/B] That's weird, 2 pass should suffice in achieving desired space target, I have used both hc and cce 2.70 (2 pass) with targetsectors=2264000 and obtained a 4480mb dvd ready to burn.

[borgraf]

That's interesting :)

Just like casperse I had a higher targetsectors for 2.67, but with 2.70 i've worked my way down. For a long time I did well with 2256880 but an oversize here and there has me down to 2246640. That's the highest I can go with 2.70 multipass and be sure it will fit on my +R discs.

And I also use QLB for bitrates up to 3000 with nice results, it's well worth a try.

[jdobbs]

It's very likely that the use of matrices might be the factor that is affecting the varying output sizes.

[casperse]

Originally posted by jdobbs
It's very likely that the use of matrices might be the factor that is affecting the varying output sizes.

So far I have only used the standard Matrix in CCE, and this morning after 6 hours of encoding it was still 8MB to large with settings set to 2255000 I will try to use the settings from Borgraf, and also calculate a new value from the values I get. :D

So far Alexander,Heat,Collateral with 2.7 have all ben to big.
I tried 2.67 with same settings on Heat and it was right on target.

Cheers

[jdobbs]

@casperse

I don't mean to sound terse, but the default target size for DVD Rebuilder is 2236400. It was selected after much testing and noted variances in source discs. You've decided to manually change it to a much larger value. So when you say:

"So far Alexander,Heat,Collateral with 2.7 have all ben to big."

You should caveat the statement with "but I made them that way"

:(

@Everyone

As I've said in the past, changing the target size is something you do at your own risk. Frankly the return you get for a handful of megabytes is not worth it (especially after "6 hours" of encoding). If you change it, fine, but please don't post saying you've "oversized'. Changing the target and then oversizing is a self-inflicted wound, not one caused by DVD-RB.

[onesoul]

I totally agree with you jdobbs.
We all get greedy sometimes... :o

[casperse]

You misunderstanding me :confused:
Sorry English is not my mother tounge, and everybody can see that I have changed the default settings, so yes ofcource its my own fault.

This is just a comment that something have changed in version 2.7 :D
And in no way to critize your excellent work.

Cheers

[jdobbs]

:cool: No problem... I'm sensitive today. My web server decided to kick me in the gonads as a wake up call.

[casperse]

No Problem I know how that feels!

PS: Finally joined your VIP club today cant wait to test out the Pro features! QLB settings etc- I wanted to do this loong time ago but had many problems with PayPal :D