Subtitle streams stripping & deletion of their VM commands

[SoundScape]

Hi,

Before stating my question about safe deletion of some VM commands that relate to subpicture stream selection, I would like to ask something else first: As you may know, SPRM 18 holds the preferred sub-picture language of the player. Is this set according to which country the latter is sold or can the user define that through the setup utility of the player? What about PowerDVD that, as far as I know, doesn’t have an option to change the preferred sub-picture language? Does it have English as its default or does it set the particular SPRM according to the Regional and Language Options defined in Windows? Having said that, whenever I play a DVD in PowerDVD, and jump straight to the movie (without going though the disc set up) Greek subtitles are selected by default (I live in Greece).

OK, now to my primary question. Have a look at a screen capture here (http://www.picjar.com/pub/SoundScape/Misc/) that shows some DVD commands concerning selection of a subtitle stream according to the contents of SPRM 18. You can see that there are quite a few sub-picture streams and as far as I could tell by enabling the trace function in PGCEdit, this is the place where a subtitle stream is selected if the user presses the “Play Movie” button and doesn’t go though the “Subtitles” set-up utility of the disc. As you can also see, I have altered line 49 that corresponds to Greek subtitles and in particular the “Set gprm(3) = (mov) 1” field, which was originally set to “(mov) 7”. I did that because after transcoding DVD with DVD Shrink, I only kept English and Greek subtitles. The latter where originally stream number 7 (counting from 0) and since I shifted it to position 1 (English were kept at position 0) I had to edit the command above to reflect that shift.

So, is it safe to just keep the command in line 49 and delete lines 43 through 59 that correspond to sub-picture languages that have been stripped off? If I left them intact and the disc is played in another country, say Denmark, will the player be confused when it reached line 47 and selects Danish as the default stream, since there is no such subtitle in movie’s VOBs? Will it select the next available stream or will it just hang up? Deleting all these lines that refer to non-existant streams won’t do any harm, will it?

And a final question, I hope I didn’t bore you to death… :) I noticed while Trace function was ON that when I chose to jump straight to the main movie (when Main Menu was reached), SPRM 2 – Sub-pictire stream number was holding the value 1, as expected (Greek subtitles). But when I set-up the DVD through the Subtitles menu and chose Greek, SPRM 2 was holding value 65. This is of course a valid number, isn’t it? But is it valid to choose a subtitle stream using different numbers (1 and 65 in our case)?

Many thanks in advance and I apologize for such a long post…I can’t help it! :)

[blutach]

It is safe given your described situation - even easier would be to replace them all with Set gprm(3) = (mov) 1

The difference between the 1 and the 65 is that 1 is set subpic stream number 1 off and 65 sets it on you may notice in your subtitle PGC that all it does is add 64 to the gprm holding the subtitle number and then transfer it over to SPRM2).

As far as setting SPRM 18 is concerned, I would think that this can be done in your player's set up.

Regards

[r0lZ]

I agree. You can safely delete the non-valid SetSTN commands.

I think PowerDVD (as many other software players) retrieves the language codes from the Windows registry. In PgcEdit, you can set it to the language code of your choice, for testing purposes.

[SoundScape]

Hello blutach and thanks for your quick reply. However, more questions arose from your answer… :) Also, thanks r0lZ for your input.

The difference between the 1 and the 65 is that 1 is set subpic stream number 1 off and 65 sets it on
Do you mean that anything that isn’t in the range 64 to 80 (for example), isn’t considered a valid subtitle stream? If it is another number, in our case 1, does that tell the player to turn subtitles OFF? Why then the author of the particular DVD chose to represent subtitle streams with numbers ranging from 1 to 16 if this means “Turn them OFF”? He could as well author it in a way that only numbers like 65 are loaded into SPRM 2, right?

Even if “1” means “Turn subtitles OFF”, PowerDVD still displays Greek subtitles when going straight to the movie. I believe it doesn’t turn subtitles OFF, even if this is chosen through the Subtitles menu. Please confirm that.

Finally, excuse me if I didn’t understand correctly your post. Thanks in advance!

[r0lZ]

Codes 0 to 31 are used to select the subpic, but to not display it, while 64 to 95 are used to display them.
Some remote do have a button "Subtitle On/OFF". If you use it, you will be able to display (or to turn off) the currently selected subpic, without having to cycle through the subtitle list to find your language (or the OFF entry).

Normally, a player must select the right audio and subpic automatically (without the need of a SetSTN command), if the audio or subpic code is still unset (code 62 for subpics, and 15 for audio.) But if a SetSTN command sets the code to another value (either ON or OFF), the player should not change the setup anymore.

[blutach]

@soundscape - re PowerDVD

If you are using version 6, you may experience subtitle display problems - I know I do. PowerDVD v6 doesn't seem to be able to turn them on and off properly. If you have previously turned them on - through PowerDVD's right click function - they don't turn off (even after an "eject" or a menu call to turn them off) and if they are off and you select a stream in the DVD menu, they select the stream but don't turn on (which is what you may be seeing - a tick next to Greek but not on). You need to press U to get them on - at least I do.

Version 5 was much better. Let's hope they bring out a fix (unless I am doing something wrong).

Regards

[SoundScape]

r0lZ,

So basically the fact that subtitles are selected (stream 1) but not displayed, if "Play Movie" is selected", was intentionally made that way, right? In order to display Greek subtitles by default when movie is played and no set up is done beforehand do I need to alter every command that sets SPERM 2 to value 1 so that it actually sets the latter to value 65? It's a bit tricky because as you can see in the image (link in my first post), a subtitle stream is first set in the Root Menu of the DVD but before the actual movie is played, a series of PGCs are accessed that change the value of SPRM 2 a lot of times :( So I guess I have to be very careful when altering these specific commands! One last question: what's the point in selecting a stream but not actually displaying it (as it happens in my case)???

blutach,

You are absolutely right about PowerDVD 6, it's a nightmare! I hope they can bring out a fix too. Thank you for your reply! :D

[r0lZ]

I haven't analysed your IFOs, so I cannot be sure. But if you want to force the selection of the subpic ON, yes, you may try to change the 1 to 65.

As I said, selecting a subpic but leaving if OFF may be useful: all you will have to do to turn it on is to use the Subpic ON/OFF button of your remote (if you are lucky enough to have such a button!), without the need to browse through all languages with the subpic language selection button.

[blutach]

This stream shifting is typically seen with DVD Shrink's logical remapping set to on. I see no reson to do this, and every reason not to.

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45228


Regards

[r0lZ]

There is one good reason to do it: some standalone players really doesn't like the removed streams.
IMHO, it is better to remap the streams if PgcEdit says it is safe to do it, and to leave them when it is not safe.

Anyway, I don't think the remap option was ON, as the commands in the image of the first post are not remapped. Since these commands are direct SetSTNs, DVDShrink should have renumbered the streams automatically.

[blutach]

@r0lZ

True. I have found if English is say stream 2 and I have stripped streams 0, 1 and 3+, then my SONY is as happy as can be with disabled streams before the first, but pressing subtitle on my NAD gets to English and stays stuck there (I need to turn it off via the DVD's menu). To fix this, I have to re-enable streams 0 and 1 (even though they are stripped) for the cycling to work. Goodness know why players can't just be on spec, or at least be the same. :(

Regards

[SoundScape]

Thank you guys for your replies. I don't need to turn Logical Remapping ON in DVD Shrink as I always remap streams myself :) I also change menu buttons commands to reflect that remapping. I will try and edit my DVD so that number 65 is loaded instead of 1. Let's hope it will work!

blutach,

To fix this, I have to re-enable streams 0 and 1 (even though they are stripped) for the cycling to work
Why don't you just change English from 2 to 1 so that there are no gaps between the actual stream and the stripped streams? For example:

Original IFO:

1. French
2. English
3. Danish

Edited IFO:

1. English
|
|
|
|
|
No other stream present

This is how I do my DVDs. Wrong maybe??? :D

[blutach]

Yup - that's how I could do it, but I like to keep the streams where they are originally, so there's no need to reprogram menus or menu PGCs etc.

So sometimes, I end up with some stripped streams before English. No big deal.

I suppose that with only 1 subbie stream, I shouldn't care about a bit of menu reprogramming, should I? I'll try it that way next time :)

Regards

[SoundScape]

I think I got it right! I deleted all references to the stripped subtitles streams and changed the line that refers to Greek subtitles so that a "(mov) 65" is carried out (see image in my first post). So, if Play Movie button is pressed without going through Subtitles setup menu, SPRM 2 is loaded with value 65. It then gets altered along the way (changes to value 1) until DVD reaches main title (title 1) where it is changed again to value 65 with an AND command. Same happens if user sets the subtitle stream through the Subtitles menu. I am going to test DVD in various standalones and see if I got it right :)

Now, while I was editing Terminator 3, the DVD I referred to in my original post, I started editing another one and there's something strange happening with the subtitles (not again!), something I do not understand. I hope you can shed some light on the problem. So, the movie is Batman which by the way has a very simple structure and very few VM commands. I've have provided some links to images so that you can draw some conclusion easier. As you can see in Image 1 (http://www.picjar.com/pub/SoundScape/PGCEdit/PGCEdit-Title2.png/), DVD jumps to VTST 1, 2 TTN 2 (0:12) Title 2 after First-Play PGC is accessed. For your information, Title 2 is a studio logo. You can see that in line 44, a check is made to determine if Greek is the preferred sub-picture language. As I have set up PGCEdit virtual player to have Greek as the preferred language, as soon as the DVD reaches that line, sets the sub-picture stream to stream 11 ON. That means that SPRM 2 is loaded with the value 75, which is the Greek subtitles stream. Then the DVD jumps to the Root Menu. Selecting Play Movie here takes us to VTST 1, 1 TTN 1 (2:01:11) Title 1, which is the main feature. As you can see in Image 2 (http://www.picjar.com/pub/SoundScape/PGCEdit/PGCEdit-Title1.png/), line 47 checks again the state of SPRM 18 and as it is set up to Greek, it loads GPRM 2 with the value 139. Note that I altered that value (mov=139), which was originally set to 11 for a good reason. After line 48 is executed, DVD jumps to line 72. GPRM 3 is set to 75, line 73 is skipped and in line 74 GPRM 2 becomes 75 (remember GPRM 2=139 – 64 = 75). Then, SPRM 18 is loaded with the value held by GPRM 2, i.e. 75. Finally, main movie is played.

The problem was traced when DVD was played in my SONY standalone. When Play Movie button was pressed and movie was presented, NO subtitles were displayed! As soon as I pressed the cycle button, I got English (stream 0 in our case) which made me think that the previous state of the subtitles was OFF. Since SPRM 2 was properly loaded with the value 75, why on earth didn’t Greek subtitles displayed? As you’ve told me values greater than 64 turn subtitles ON without the need to press the respective ON/OFF button on the remote (which by the way does not exist on my standalone’s remote…). Subtitles display correctly though, when selected through the respective menu. Note that I have not transcoded the DVD; therefore no streams have been stipped off. I retained the original structure of the disc since it fits a DVD-5 perfectly as it is. Maybe all the above are happening because my SONY is non-specs, as blutach mentioned in one of his posts above about standalones not following DVD specifications to the letter. I guess there's nothing we can do about it except from being careful next time we buy a player...:)

Any help and guidance is much appreciated! Thanks.

[blutach]

Hiya soundscape (or is it subtitlescape? :))

I can see you want to automatically play this movie with the subbies on. Have you traced your commands though on a STEP basis with PgcEdit. Does SPRM 2 end up with 75? You mention SPRM18 in title 1 - this I guess is SPRM 2.

There is an easier way. Do nothing to the PGCs at all - restore your backup of the IFOs. Now, figure out exactly the effects of pressing the subtitle menu, selecting Greek and returning to the main menu. Chances are that only SPRM 2 and a couple of GPRMs are affected.

Now, look at the play movie button and figure out what it does (e.g. Jump to title 1 or linktailPGC, button 1?)

Make a new dummy PGC that exactly mimics what turning Greek subbies on does and then mimics what the play movie button does. Change your play movie button to link to this PGC.

Regards

[r0lZ]

I think your error is that you force the subpic ON in Title 2 (image 1 (http://www.picjar.com/pub/SoundScape/PGCEdit/PGCEdit-Title2.png/?size=R)). The value in SPRM 2 is therefore 11 + 64 = 75.
In Title 1 (image 2 (http://www.picjar.com/pub/SoundScape/PGCEdit/PGCEdit-Title1.png/?size=R)), at line 48, you load 139 in GPRM 2. Line 72 sets the value of SPRM 2 in GPRM 3, which holds now 75. Therefore line 73 is not skipped, but line 74 is. So, you use 139 as the subpic stream number for the SetSTN. This value is out of range.

Also, I notice that in both title 1 and 2, a line is highlighted in yellow after the subpic assignments stuff (respectively lines 76 and 69). I guess an important jump is hidden, somewhere above the visible lines.
Please do not use screenshots. Post the lines of code directly in the forum (use Edit -> Copy as Text, or Info -> PGC). It's more legible!

Note: IMHO, Sony is verry standard compliant. You may generally thrust it (although there are some exceptions!)

[SoundScape]

blutach,

Have you traced your commands though on a STEP basis with PgcEdit. Does SPRM 2 end up with 75? You mention SPRM18 in title 1 - this I guess is SPRM 2
I have traced the commands on a step basis. And yes, SPRM 2 ends up with a value of 75! As far as the SPRM 18 is concerned, I mentioned in my previous post that it is loaded with the preferred sub-picture language (Greek) and therefore GPRM 2 is loaded with the value 139 (line 48, Title 1). You may wish to read on, I have noticed something interesting when playing my DVD in PowerDVD and in Media Player Classic (by Gabest).

r0lZ,
I think your error is that you force the subpic ON in Title 2 (image 1). The value in SPRM 2 is therefore 11 + 64 = 75
Why is this possible error? SPRM 2 is loaded with the desired value, isn’t it?
Line 72 sets the value of SPRM 2 in GPRM 3, which holds now 75. Therefore line 73 is not skipped, but line 74 is. So, you use 139 as the subpic stream number for the SetSTN. This value is out of range
GPRM 3 holds 75 indeed. Line 73 is not skipped but it is not validated since GPRM 3 always holds value 75 which is greater than 64. I think that you got it wrong, that line 74 is skipped :) Take a closer look at that line again: Since line 73 is FALSE, DVD continues execution without jumping to line 75, i.e. line 74 is executed! So, line 74 (Set gprm(2) -=(sub) 64) subtracts 64 out of GPRM 2. That results in: GPRM 2=139 – 64 = 75. Therefore, GPRM 2 now holds the value of Greek subtitles. Please correct me if I am wrong. I used the Trace function in PGCEdit and it confirms what I just said. GPRM 2 holds the value 75 just before main movie is played.

As both me and blutach mentioned the weakness of PowerDVD to turn subtitles ON and OFF after the appropriate Subtitles menu button is pressed or if SPRM 2 is loaded with a value of 11, for example, which just sets the sub-picture stream but does not displays it, I thought why not test my DVD in Media Player Classic? So, I tested it and…there you have it: Greek subtitles were being displayed as expected. If you can recall the right-click menu of MPC, going through Navigate/Subtitle Language shows Greek selected and on the top of that menu, Enabled is ticked. But that was enough proof for me that DVD actually works as desired! I restored all edited commands back to their original values where Greek subtitles were just set but not displayed (SPRM 2 was loaded with a value of 11 just before movie was played) and tested it in MPC. Again, the desired results were observed. Greek subtitles were selected but the Enabled field was NOT ticked. A huge THANKS goes to Gabest for making such a great player! In PowerDVD 6 the same behavior was observed as far as the edited DVD is concerned. Greek subtitles were selected and the Display Subtitles on top of the menu was ticked. Problem is that if subtitles were just being set but not meant to be displayed, PowerDVD would still have the Display Subtitles ticked. It simply refuses to comply with our commands! I confirmed that by restoring commands to their original state, just as I did while testing DVD in MPC.
After r0lZ’s request, I have included the VM commands of the DVD below. Hope it helps! Once again thank you for your patience and valuable help.

VTST 1, 1 TTN 1 (2:01:11) Title 1

********** pre commands:
[00 A1 00 07 00 01 00 4C] 1 if ( gprm(7) == 1 ) then { Goto line 76 }
[00 A1 00 06 00 01 00 4C] 2 if ( gprm(6) == 1 ) then { Goto line 76 }
[00 A1 00 04 00 01 00 0C] 3 if ( gprm(4) == 1 ) then { Goto line 12 }
[61 00 00 0C 00 90 00 00] 4 Set gprm(12) =(mov) sprm(16:Preferred audio language)
[00 B1 00 0C 64 65 00 08] 5 if ( gprm(12) != 25701 ("de") ) then { Goto line 8 }
[51 00 00 81 00 00 00 00] 6 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 1
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 0C] 7 Goto line 12
[00 B1 00 0C 65 73 00 0B] 8 if ( gprm(12) != 25971 ("es") ) then { Goto line 11 }
[51 00 00 82 00 00 00 00] 9 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 2
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 0C] 10 Goto line 12
[51 00 00 80 00 00 00 00] 11 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 0
[00 A1 00 05 00 01 00 4C] 12 if ( gprm(5) == 1 ) then { Goto line 76 }
[61 00 00 0E 00 92 00 00] 13 Set gprm(14) =(mov) sprm(18:Preferred sub-picture language)
[00 B1 00 0E 65 6E 00 11] 14 if ( gprm(14) != 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 17 }
[71 00 00 02 00 00 00 00] 15 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 0
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 16 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 64 65 00 14] 17 if ( gprm(14) != 25701 ("de") ) then { Goto line 20 }
[71 00 00 02 00 01 00 00] 18 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 1
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 19 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 65 73 00 17] 20 if ( gprm(14) != 25971 ("es") ) then { Goto line 23 }
[71 00 00 02 00 02 00 00] 21 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 2
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 22 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 6E 6C 00 1A] 23 if ( gprm(14) != 28268 ("nl") ) then { Goto line 26 }
[71 00 00 02 00 03 00 00] 24 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 3
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 25 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 73 76 00 1D] 26 if ( gprm(14) != 29558 ("sv") ) then { Goto line 29 }
[71 00 00 02 00 04 00 00] 27 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 4
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 28 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 6E 6F 00 20] 29 if ( gprm(14) != 28271 ("no") ) then { Goto line 32 }
[71 00 00 02 00 05 00 00] 30 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 5
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 31 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 64 61 00 23] 32 if ( gprm(14) != 25697 ("da") ) then { Goto line 35 }
[71 00 00 02 00 06 00 00] 33 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 6
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 34 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 66 69 00 26] 35 if ( gprm(14) != 26217 ("fi") ) then { Goto line 38 }
[71 00 00 02 00 07 00 00] 36 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 7
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 37 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 70 74 00 29] 38 if ( gprm(14) != 28788 ("pt") ) then { Goto line 41 }
[71 00 00 02 00 08 00 00] 39 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 8
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 40 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 69 77 00 2C] 41 if ( gprm(14) != 26999 ("iw") ) then { Goto line 44 }
[71 00 00 02 00 09 00 00] 42 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 9
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 43 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 70 6C 00 2F] 44 if ( gprm(14) != 28780 ("pl") ) then { Goto line 47 }
[71 00 00 02 00 0A 00 00] 45 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 10
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 46 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 65 6C 00 32] 47 if ( gprm(14) != 25964 ("el") ) then { Goto line 50 }
[71 00 00 02 00 8B 00 00] 48 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 139
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 49 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 63 73 00 35] 50 if ( gprm(14) != 25459 ("cs") ) then { Goto line 53 }
[71 00 00 02 00 0C 00 00] 51 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 12
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 52 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 74 72 00 38] 53 if ( gprm(14) != 29810 ("tr") ) then { Goto line 56 }
[71 00 00 02 00 0D 00 00] 54 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 13
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 55 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 68 75 00 3B] 56 if ( gprm(14) != 26741 ("hu") ) then { Goto line 59 }
[71 00 00 02 00 0E 00 00] 57 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 14
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 58 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 69 73 00 3E] 59 if ( gprm(14) != 26995 ("is") ) then { Goto line 62 }
[71 00 00 02 00 0F 00 00] 60 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 15
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 61 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 68 72 00 41] 62 if ( gprm(14) != 26738 ("hr") ) then { Goto line 65 }
[71 00 00 02 00 10 00 00] 63 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 16
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 64 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 66 72 00 44] 65 if ( gprm(14) != 26226 ("fr") ) then { Goto line 68 }
[71 00 00 02 00 11 00 00] 66 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 17
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 67 Goto line 72
[00 B1 00 0E 69 74 00 47] 68 if ( gprm(14) != 26996 ("it") ) then { Goto line 71 }
[71 00 00 02 00 12 00 00] 69 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 18
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 48] 70 Goto line 72
[71 00 00 02 00 8B 00 00] 71 Set gprm(2) =(mov) 139
[61 00 00 03 00 82 00 00] 72 Set gprm(3) =(mov) sprm(2:Sub-picture stream number)
[00 F1 00 03 00 40 00 4B] 73 if ( gprm(3) < 64 ) then { Goto line 75 }
[74 00 00 02 00 40 00 00] 74 Set gprm(2) -=(sub) 64
[41 00 00 00 82 00 00 00] 75 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = gprm(2)
[71 00 00 07 00 01 00 00] 76 Set gprm(7) =(mov) 1
[71 00 00 04 00 00 00 00] 77 Set gprm(4) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 05 00 00 00 00] 78 Set gprm(5) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 06 00 01 00 00] 79 Set gprm(6) =(mov) 1
********** post commands:
[71 00 00 07 00 00 00 00] 1 Set gprm(7) =(mov) 0
[30 08 00 02 01 C0 00 00] 2 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 2, resume cell 1
********** cell commands:

VTST 1, 2 TTN 2 (0:12) Title 2

********** pre commands:
[00 A1 00 07 00 01 00 45] 1 if ( gprm(7) == 1 ) then { Goto line 69 }
[61 00 00 0C 00 90 00 00] 2 Set gprm(12) =(mov) sprm(16:Preferred audio language)
[00 B1 00 0C 64 65 00 06] 3 if ( gprm(12) != 25701 ("de") ) then { Goto line 6 }
[51 00 00 81 00 00 00 00] 4 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 1
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 0A] 5 Goto line 10
[00 B1 00 0C 65 73 00 09] 6 if ( gprm(12) != 25971 ("es") ) then { Goto line 9 }
[51 00 00 82 00 00 00 00] 7 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 2
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 0A] 8 Goto line 10
[51 00 00 80 00 00 00 00] 9 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 0
[61 00 00 0E 00 92 00 00] 10 Set gprm(14) =(mov) sprm(18:Preferred sub-picture language)
[00 B1 00 0E 65 6E 00 0E] 11 if ( gprm(14) != 25966 ("en") ) then { Goto line 14 }
[51 00 00 00 80 00 00 00] 12 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 0, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 13 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 64 65 00 11] 14 if ( gprm(14) != 25701 ("de") ) then { Goto line 17 }
[51 00 00 00 81 00 00 00] 15 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 1, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 16 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 65 73 00 14] 17 if ( gprm(14) != 25971 ("es") ) then { Goto line 20 }
[51 00 00 00 82 00 00 00] 18 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 2, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 19 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 6E 6C 00 17] 20 if ( gprm(14) != 28268 ("nl") ) then { Goto line 23 }
[51 00 00 00 83 00 00 00] 21 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 3, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 22 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 73 76 00 1A] 23 if ( gprm(14) != 29558 ("sv") ) then { Goto line 26 }
[51 00 00 00 84 00 00 00] 24 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 4, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 25 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 6E 6F 00 1D] 26 if ( gprm(14) != 28271 ("no") ) then { Goto line 29 }
[51 00 00 00 85 00 00 00] 27 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 5, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 28 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 64 61 00 20] 29 if ( gprm(14) != 25697 ("da") ) then { Goto line 32 }
[51 00 00 00 86 00 00 00] 30 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 6, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 31 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 66 69 00 23] 32 if ( gprm(14) != 26217 ("fi") ) then { Goto line 35 }
[51 00 00 00 87 00 00 00] 33 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 7, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 34 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 70 74 00 26] 35 if ( gprm(14) != 28788 ("pt") ) then { Goto line 38 }
[51 00 00 00 88 00 00 00] 36 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 8, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 37 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 69 77 00 29] 38 if ( gprm(14) != 26999 ("iw") ) then { Goto line 41 }
[51 00 00 00 89 00 00 00] 39 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 9, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 40 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 70 6C 00 2C] 41 if ( gprm(14) != 28780 ("pl") ) then { Goto line 44 }
[51 00 00 00 8A 00 00 00] 42 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 10, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 43 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 65 6C 00 2F] 44 if ( gprm(14) != 25964 ("el") ) then { Goto line 47 }
[51 00 00 00 CB 00 00 00] 45 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 11, on
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 46 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 63 73 00 32] 47 if ( gprm(14) != 25459 ("cs") ) then { Goto line 50 }
[51 00 00 00 8C 00 00 00] 48 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 12, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 49 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 74 72 00 35] 50 if ( gprm(14) != 29810 ("tr") ) then { Goto line 53 }
[51 00 00 00 8D 00 00 00] 51 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 13, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 52 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 68 75 00 38] 53 if ( gprm(14) != 26741 ("hu") ) then { Goto line 56 }
[51 00 00 00 8E 00 00 00] 54 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 14, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 55 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 69 73 00 3B] 56 if ( gprm(14) != 26995 ("is") ) then { Goto line 59 }
[51 00 00 00 8F 00 00 00] 57 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 15, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 58 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 68 72 00 3E] 59 if ( gprm(14) != 26738 ("hr") ) then { Goto line 62 }
[51 00 00 00 90 00 00 00] 60 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 16, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 61 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 66 72 00 41] 62 if ( gprm(14) != 26226 ("fr") ) then { Goto line 65 }
[51 00 00 00 91 00 00 00] 63 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 17, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 64 Goto line 69
[00 B1 00 0E 69 74 00 44] 65 if ( gprm(14) != 26996 ("it") ) then { Goto line 68 }
[51 00 00 00 92 00 00 00] 66 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 18, off
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 45] 67 Goto line 69
[51 00 00 00 80 00 00 00] 68 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 0, off
[71 00 00 04 00 00 00 00] 69 Set gprm(4) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 05 00 00 00 00] 70 Set gprm(5) =(mov) 0
********** post commands:
[30 08 00 00 01 83 00 00] 1 (CallSS) Call the VTSM Root menu of the current VTS, resume cell 1
********** cell commands:

[blutach]

@soundscape - thanks for that - you may wish to test in PowerDVDv5 and I bet it works!

Maybe we should log complaints to Cyberlink re v6. I like it in almost every other respect, but this is infuriating. Right now, I think Showtime is prob the best SW player going around, but MPC is also brilliant.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by SoundScape
I think that you got it wrong, that line 74 is skipped :) Indeed, you're right! :o

I agree with blutach: ShowTime is the best soft DVD player around. But I hate the skins!

MPC is a good player for many formats, but I have experienced some problems with the menu buttons. However, it's the best DVD player without skin ;), and it's free! :)

[SoundScape]

blutach,

Maybe we should log complaints to Cyberlink re v6
I agree! Although PowerDVD 6 is an excellent player things like the subtitles bug make you mad :angry:

r0lZ,

So, by looking at the posted commands you weren't able to trace the problem, right? That's OK, I will do some more tests in my standalone and see what happens in respect to subtitles not being displayed when they should be. Thanks for your help so far! :cool:

MPC is a good player for many formats, but I have experienced some problems with the menu buttons
I can confirm the menu buttons problem. You have to click at several spots with your mouse in order to make the button work...:( But apart from that a great player and highly versatile!

Also, I am not sure if this is the proper thread to ask the following but I’ll shoot anyway. I believe you are the appropriate person to answer this question: I am experiencing different behavior as far as the Prohibited User Operations are concerned when playing a DVD in PowerDVD 6 and in Media Player Classic. The DVD I am referring to has been edited by me and like most of my DVDs, it has the following PUO in its menus: Time Play or Search, PTT Play or Search, Title Play, Time or PTT Search. Although I don’t understand what some of them mean (and this is another question I’ll be asking in a while), I have found by setting and testing that when these are set, user is not allowed to select any title or one of its chapters. This comes in handy since in most of my DVDs some titles have been blanked out (usually with PGCEdit) so there would be a problem if the user was allowed to access these titles via the Go To menu in PowerDVD, for example. The above PUOs apply to DVD menus only. For the main movie I only use Title Play PUO since it allows user to select any chapter of the movie (usually Title 1) but does not allow access to any other title.

Now, the real problem if you can call it that :) In PowerDVD 6 when a PUO such those stated above exist in a DVD, Titles are not selectable, i.e. they are greyed out. In the case of a Title Play PUO, only titles that are not currently played are greyed out. Main movie and thus its chapters are selectable. This is the desired operation and I have found that when a DVD behaves like that in PowerDVD, it behaves exactly the same in my SONY standalone. On the other hand, in MPC things are much different :( When Time Play or Search, PTT Play or Search, Title Play, Time or PTT Search PUOs are inserted for the menus, although title selection is not greyed out, selecting any title does nothing. Also, I noticed that enabling only PTT Play or Search and Title Play has the same effect. But while playing main movie in MPC and only Title Play is enabled (of course other PUOs are enabled but these do not have to do with Title access), user is able to select other titles as well some of which do not exist in the DVD or have been blanked out. You can easily see that this creates problems.

Do you have any idea why MPC does not respect these PUO while PowerDVD does? Is this a weakness of the former or the developer designed it that way? Also, would it be much trouble to explain to me what all these PUOs I referred to mean? Maybe provide a link to a site that demystifies all that?

Thanks in advance! :D

[SoundScape]

While reading through my previous post, you may wish to know that the subtitles problem with both my DVDs is solved! Although this thread started because I wanted to know if it was safe to delete some VM commands referring to stripped subtitles, it has evolved into a rich pool of information regarding a lot of things around DVD editing. You have helped me a lot and I appreciate that! Thank you both blutach and r0lZ! A special thanks goes to r0lZ for creating PGCEdit, the most powerful tool of its kind. And free too! Thank you and keep up the good work!

Now, the solution was so simple that I feel really embarrassed to say it…Although in my last posts I mentioned that in MPC Greek subtitles were being enabled and displayed properly (in both DVDs, after I edited them), my standalone didn’t seem to be able to do the same thing. Today I looked in the set up utility only to find out that the preferred sub-picture language was English…:o What an embarrassment! Sorry guys for making you answer so many questions regarding this problem while the answer was in front of my eyes. Of course I changed that to Greek and everything worked just fine. That’s why when movie was playing and cycle button was pressed, English subs came up first. I hope you are not mad at me :D

I think this thread has no reason to go on unless r0lZ wishes to answer regarding my previous post about PUOs. Thanks once more and take care guys :cool:


P.S. You both referred to Showtime as being the best player around. I guess you mean Nero Showtime, right? I have it installed in my system but never gave it a try until now. It has some nice features although I still believe that PowerDVD 6 is probably the best overall. The picture quality of the latter compared to Showtime is way better, at least to my eyes. Not to mention that Showtime resembles PowerDVD a lot! Menu style is exactly the same as well as other apects. And most importantly, Showtime has a major problem with displaying subs properly. I played my Terminator 3 DVD on it and instead of Greek subs I got English and on top of that they were not enabled! As if the player didn’t recognise the DVD’s commands. Or maybe just ignored them :) My Showtime version is 2.0.0.5. That’s all.

[r0lZ]

I'm not sure I am the right person to answer your questions about PUOs. But most of them are self explanatory.
However, I don't know exactly how they are supposed to work, and I use only a few of them.
Generally, I clear all PUOs in title domains, but keep them in menus (for example, to avoid navigation problems with the resume buttons when no title has been played yet).
Of course, I remove all PUOs from the VOBs when ripping, because they are not easily editable.

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ

Generally, I clear all PUOs in title domains, but keep them in menus (for example, to avoid navigation problems with the resume buttons when no title has been played yet).
Of course, I remove all PUOs from the VOBs when ripping, because they are not easily editable.
One side effect of removing angle puos for example is that the angle icon will appear during the movie at points where multiple angles are used (but are not meant to be switched). An example is a movie where multiple angles are used to select the language of a billboard or a newpaper front page (e.g., the incredibles). If you remove that PUO, then the angle icon will be displayed for the duration of the cell in which multiple angles are present, that can be distracting...
jeanl

[r0lZ]

Interesting! I have never experienced that with my Sony and KISS. Probably a player specific feature.

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ
Interesting! I have never experienced that with my Sony and KISS. Probably a player specific feature.
You think? I think most players show an angle icon when the user has the possibility to switch between angles, no? Maybe you haven't seen it because the possibility wasn't there? I'm puzzled.
Jeanl
EDIT: I read on some posts that some on some players, displaying the multi-angle icon is an option that can be disabled (not on mine, I must say)...

[r0lZ]

In all cases I've seen angles intended to be selected by the user, there was a still frame explaining that you may use the remote to switch angles. If the player is supposed to have an angle icon, that explanation isn't necessary.
BTW, I hate untimely on-screen displays even more than absurd skins!

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ
In all cases I've seen angles intended to be selected by the user, there was a still frame explaining that you may use the remote to switch angles. If the player is supposed to have an angle icon, that explanation isn't necessary.
BTW, I hate untimely on-screen displays even more than absurd skins!
r0lZ, I think I remember seeing movies where you can watch a "multi-angle" version of it, and each time you have a choice between 2 angles, the angle icon pops up... But maybe I'm mistaken and they actually pop a small subtitle "icon". I don't quite remember I must say. From what I've read on the net, a lot of player have that small icon, and some of them won't let you turn it off, and people get really upset by it. So there, you're not the only one!
Jeanl

[blutach]

@jeanl

I've seen that effect switched on by a subpic stream. Men In Black 1 and 2 IIRC have this.

But yes, if the VOB PUOs are out, many players will display this annoying effect. If there are angles in the movie, it's probably safer to leave them in the VOBs, however, one little side effect of this is that if you want to chapter skip in the last cell using the NextPGCN = 1 feature, it doesn't work for some reason. Never fully got to the bottom of that - mst have been a particular PUO.

Regards

[SoundScape]

r0lZ,

I wasn't aware that apart from IFOs, VOBs can also contain PUOs. Thanks fro the info! So, if one doesn't remove VOB PUOs, say in DVD Decrypter, is there any tool that can remove them later on?

Thanks.

[r0lZ]

Yes. There is a tool to remove the PUOs in VOBs. I don't remember his name, but it was announced here, in D9 forum.

Note that there are also 2 PUOs (ussed for the Titles only) in the VMG title play map table.

[blutach]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86318

Regards