Why not Matroska?

[ukb008]

Matroska obviously looks promising. Superficially at least, there appears to be no reason why avi should continue to rule. It does so, perhaps because of historical reasons (e.g., head start). Mr Alex Noe and Mr bond has posts in these fora that clearly seem to indicate their preference for npn-avi containers like ogm and mp4.

Are there good reasons why avi is going to remain the default container in major encoding programs?

Mr bond had remarked once in a post that proper tool chains are lacking for DVD > mpg4 encoding in mp4-contained files. Why you PROs don't remedy that?

Regards.

[Doom9]

Are there good reasons why avi is going to remain the default container in major encoding programs?Widespread support. All the major NLEs use AVI, and there's but one for which there's an MP4 plugin. There's none with support for OGM (and the Xiph politics make it unlikely that there ever will be), none for MKV. People using OGM or MKV are not the ones that generate business.. so commarcial software makers have no interest in supporting those containers.

[iapir]

Originally posted by Doom9
so commarcial software makers have no interest in supporting those containers.

So far...

[multicone]

... and it's definitely very useful if the leader of the biggest video encoding community is constantly confirming them in this opinion ...

[ukb008]

Obviously, Doom9's forum is the largest one peopled and moderated by an awsome array of individuals with an intimidating knowledge-base and peerless expertise. The continuaous healthy growth of this forum attests to the fact that business interests always don't drive talent. Look at programs like the GK. It is a freeware, based on other freewares. Apart from donations, which is entirely optional, the developer has never asked to be paid. And programs like the DivX or XviD. All freewares.

The points is, popular programs like these can provide native support for all these minority containers like the ogm, mkv, or mp4. Why not? GK was not developed with the sole purpose of earning profit. Why can't we extend this non-profit motif into extending support for non-profit containers, too?

Only a push from a forum as important as this one can build up a substantial shove.

Regards.

[Doom9]

and it's definitely very useful if the leader of the biggest video encoding community is constantly confirming them in this opinioAs if I had any influence on this whatsoever.. look how small the NLE part of this forum is... we are nothing compared to the big video editing communities out there.

And studios might use something else entirely.. I doubt their sources are AVIs.

The points is, popular programs like these can provide native support for all these minority containers like the ogm, mkv, or mp4. Why not? GK was not developed with the sole purpose of earning profit. Why can't we extend this non-profit motif into extending support for non-profit containers, too? Last time I checked, GK supported OGM and MKV. DVX afaik does too. And AutoGK is geared towards standalones.. so it doesn't make much sense asking for alternative container support if no player can handle those... MP4 would actually make the most sense because it is highly likely that future players will move into that direction (and there are already players supporting it).

People will use whatever they need.. not pick a container that limits their selection of tools, forces them to install extra filters, just to do something they could do out of the box.

[ukb008]

Thanks, Doom9. Yes, indeed, GK does support ogm and mkv, but not mp4. AGK doesn't, either. What you say about mp4 having a brighter future is heartening. Let's start the ball rolling by providing support for mp4 in the two most popular encoding programs in the world: the GK and the AGK.

Regards.

[iapir]

Originally posted by Doom9
As if I had any influence on this whatsoever.. look how small the NLE part of this forum is... we are nothing compared to the big video editing communities out there.

And studios might use something else entirely.. I doubt their sources are AVIs.

So you mean it's not worth supporting them actively because the fight is lost already ? But the point was that an alternative community like here should be the starting point. Not waiting for slow big corporations to realise the world is moving (like it did with MP3 and DivX).

Originally posted by Doom9
MP4 would actually make the most sense because it is highly likely that future players will move into that direction (and there are already players supporting it).

Well, you're just having a wild guess here (or maybe you have information we don't have). Because H264 will have hardware support in set-top boxes. But MP4 is far from a success. It's mostly pushed by Nero, that has already added proprietary extensions to the format (chapters). I'm not sure Sony or Philips or Samsung want to help here, when they concentrate on newer formats, where MP4 support is not planned.

Originally posted by Doom9
People will use whatever they need.. not pick a container that limits their selection of tools, forces them to install extra filters, just to do something they could do out of the box.

As said above, MP4 found in Nero Digital is only fully used by Nero and Nero only. Apart from that, all MP4 tools are quite immature compared to the Matroska ones (and not tied to Windows only). But at least MP4 has your support :D

PS : "Welcome to Doom9.net - The definitive DVD backup resource"

[Doom9]

Well, you're just having a wild guess here (or maybe you have information we don't have). Because H264 will have hardware support in set-top boxes. But MP4 is far from a success. It's mostly pushed by Nero, that has already added proprietary extensions to the format (chapters). I'm not sure Sony or Philips or Samsung want to help here, when they concentrate on newer formats, where MP4 support is not planned.Hmm.. Philip's DivX capable DVD player supports the MP4 container (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91048), Sonys PSP supports it as well (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91165&highlight=psp), and certain Samsung mobile phones can play 3gp files, and 3gp is mp4.. they just use another audio format on mobile phones because AAC would be too computationaly intensive. More info about the differences can be found here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92273&highlight=3gp

Even my Nokia cellphone supports 3gp movies.

So much for wild guesses ;)

But the point was that an alternative community like here should be the starting point.Isn't it just that? Matroska is way more popular here than in most other places. It is supported by one of the most widely used tools here.. what more can you ask for? If you want Matroska output in program X, then you have to ask the programmer for it.

P.S. I still use AVI, not MP4. The only reason MeGUI has MP4 output is because the users asked for it..