Import chapters into mp4

[JoeBG]

@ bond

Can´t test in the moment so please excuse the following question - but it also might help other people: Do I always need a *.txt file? Or do you mean it has to be *.srt file when using srt format and is has to be a *chp file when using scenrist format which looks like this:

00:00:00;00/25 Chapter 1
00:04:08;04/25 Chapter 2
00:09:17;01/25 Chapter 3

[bond]

joe, i tested the ogg and srt format both with the .txt extension and it worked fine

i doubt using .srt is a good idea as it will make mp4box assume that the file should contain subs i assume

[Elias]

If MPEG-4 doesn't have its own chapter system, why is everyone requesting Nero Digital to add spec compliant chapters in Recode?

[bond]

Originally posted by Elias
If MPEG-4 doesn't have its own chapter system, why is everyone requesting Nero Digital to add spec compliant chapters in Recode? dunno, i dont do that :D
i only said that neros chapters are private stuff, so i heavily doubt that we will ever see very wide support for them in mp4 tools, like quicktime or sony's psp

[Doom9]

If MPEG-4 doesn't have its own chapter system, why is everyone requesting Nero Digital to add spec compliant chapters in Recode?Because specs compliant sounds sexy no matter if it's doable or not? Makes you wonder about those people who request things that may not even exist, doesn't it?

[Doom9]

like quicktime or sony's pspSpeaking of those, it might be interesting to look at what's on an UMD disc. And how QT does chapters.

[bond]

Originally posted by Doom9
And how QT does chaptersqt uses chapter tracks in mov afaik, which are definitely not part of a mpeg standard

[Elias]

Originally posted by Doom9
Because specs compliant sounds sexy no matter if it's doable or not? Makes you wonder about those people who request things that may not even exist, doesn't it? I don't know man, I just saw a bunch of people requesting spec compliant chapters in Nero Digital to JohnV when he made that Nero Digital Wishlist thread... I just thought that it existed something like that after it.

[bond]

well there exists something which maybe could be used for chapters too in mpeg-4: segmentdescriptors (which are used in mp4menu for example), but i am not sure about it as i think they are more related to systems

anyways following specs (if they exist ;) ) is indeed better than inventing the wheel again imho, as private stuff imho only weakens the interoperability
eg apple created its own tagging format for mp4, altough there exists one in mpeg-7. now people create lots of aac mp4 files with that tagging, but does anyone really think that sony will support the tags on the psp (especially as the specs are not publically available)?
bingo :D

[Elias]

Originally posted by bond
anyways following specs (if they exist ;) ) is indeed better than inventing the wheel again imho, as private stuff imho only weakens the interoperabilityExactly! That's why I'm so super-anal with always following the specs as much as possible :D

[hhanh00]

to JoeBG: The file is parsed, so the extension doesn't matter
to SMD: I'm curious... What would you need the GUI for?

Thanks,
--h

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by hhanh00
SMD: I'm curious... What would you need the GUI for?

Thanks,
--h My line of thinking was to have a tool that could provide chapter support as part of an muxing tool. Something along these lines: -

http://img82.echo.cx/img82/2193/muxmanexample1nt.png


Cheers

[hhanh00]

I see. Hopefully, it will be part of MP4BoxGUI soon.

[Elias]

But Doom9 has a very valid point here. UMD might handle chapters the MPEG-4 spec compliant way, but I'm not sure on this one because I don't know if UMD uses the mp4 container. Has any UMD movies been released yet? If so, is there a good way to browse what the movies are encoded with? Either way, I bet that QT7 will handle chapters (if it's included) the MPEG-4 spec compliant way. Because QT6 can already make chapters (don't know if it's compliant though), and Apple said that QT7 will be "complete MPEG-4 compliance." So, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[giandrea]

I am pretty sure that UMD disks use the PMF format, a semi-proprietary format of Sony. You can find more info in this forum (http://www.pspvideo9.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6).
Long story short, the PMF is MPEG-PS with a slichtly modified header. It is almost readable by MPlayer and other software. It has MPEG-4 AVC video and ATRAC3 audio.

So, no MP4, ah, and the UMD disks are encrypted. :rolleyes:

[Elias]

Guess we'll have to put all our hope on QT7 then. Man, it feels weird to have Apple as our life saviour for MPEG-4 chapters :D

[Doom9]

well.. considering that Apple is using MOV chapters.. I wouldn't get my hopes up. For now, Nero chapters seem the most promising route. And for all we know there's no chapters in MPEG-4 (seeing that it has been around for quite a while already, I think it's reasonable to make the negative assumption until proven otherwise).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thankfully Nero's chapters appear to function well in software players such as ShowTime and MediaPlayer Classic. They also seem to work well in hardware players, such as the Siemssen SCO 5000 ND and RJTech RJ-1500DVX.

Nero's chapter system has been available for well over a year. Long enough for others to have developed a competing method... I wonder why nobody else has bothered to?


Cheers

[Elias]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Thankfully Nero's chapters appear to function well in software players such as ShowTime and MediaPlayer Classic. They also seem to work well in hardware players, such as the Siemssen SCO 5000 ND and RJTech RJ-1500DVX.

Nero's chapter system has been available for well over a year. Long enough for others to have developed a competing method... I wonder why nobody else has bothered to?


Cheers Aren't those standalones Nero Digital certified, meaning that Nero chapters should work? My guess is that the Nero Digital way will be standard for chapters... unless Apple comes up with a better way for that in QT7.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Elias
Aren't those standalones Nero Digital certified, meaning that Nero chapters should work? My guess is that the Nero Digital way will be standard for chapters... unless Apple comes up with a better way for that in QT7. Yes... but interestingly the RJTech (with ESS Vibratto II chip-set) player started it's life as a non NeroDigital Certified device (I'm not even sure if it supported AAC streams). So it's useful to know that NeroDigital certification may be possible on other ESS Vibratto II chip-set based players.


Originally posted by JoeBG
A gui like muxman for mp4 would be the greatest. You would be hero Indeed... Maybe somebody could sweet talk mpucoder into donating his GUI for use with an MP4 muxing tool... Even if all the options can't be made to work straight away, it's a darn good template :)


Cheers

[Doom9]

unless Apple comes up with a better way for that in QT7.Apple has their own means to do chaptering.. so unless you have any credible indication that this is going to change please do not waste any more bandwidth on this futile notion. Your energy would be better spent researching the MPEG-4 system specs to get a definitive answer whether there is an ISO standardized means of chaptering. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to hearing the results of your research.

[Elias]

Originally posted by Doom9
Apple has their own means to do chaptering.. so unless you have any credible indication that this is going to change please do not waste any more bandwidth on this futile notion. Your energy would be better spent researching the MPEG-4 system specs to get a definitive answer whether there is an ISO standardized means of chaptering. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to hearing the results of your research. Well then, I guess I pissed you off. Please note that I said "unless," which indicates that I was far from sure about this.

[bond]

about umd: as these discs are totally different from dvd and cd i doubt there will be any way to get the movie files out of them and to your hd
therefore its also pretty irrelevent what format (video, container, chapters or whatever) sony uses on these discs as only sony's tools will handle them anyways

maybe the perfect protection mechanism to avoid getting the files spread on p2p networks :D

[Elias]

Originally posted by bond
about umd: as these discs are totally different from dvd and cd i doubt there will be any way to get the movie files out of them and to your hd
therefore its also pretty irrelevent what format (video, container, chapters or whatever) sony uses on these discs as only sony's tools will handle them anyways

maybe the perfect protection mechanism to avoid getting the files spread on p2p networks :D You got a point. However, if they can get cartridges like Game Boy Advance to the harddrive, why not UMD? I wouldn't be surprised if some 1337 h4ckz0r found out a way to do this. But hey, we're getting into piracy topics now, and last I checked that was like clearly illegal to talk about here :D

[hhanh00]

About the GUI, I was thinking about adding the option of working with mp4 files to VirtualDub by merging some code from mp4box. It obviously won't be easy. I did some search on the forums and no one seems to have considered that. That leaves me a little queasy. Is it in fact *impossible*?
To be honest, I don't know much about the mp4 and avi containers and I'd rather learn more before undergoing that task. :P

Thanks,
--h

There is actually some discussion about that in the VirtualDub forum. It didn't get beyond a wishlist unfortunately.

[Doom9]

About the GUI, I was thinking about adding the option of working with mp4 files to VirtualDub by merging some code from mp4box. It obviously won't be easy.I guess you shouldn't have said that out loud.. now it won't take long and you have a bunch of people "volunteering" for testing even though they just care to get their stuff done.. sorta like the doves in "Finding Nemo" screaming "me, me".

One of the things still missing from mp4box is a means to give a stream a language.. once that's all in mp4box, it shouldn't be too hard making a gui for it.. I'm currently considering switching to mp4box in MeGUI and to support multiple languages.. and for testing purposes, having the muxer exposed like it currently is in the settings would make sense.. and from that it's not a far cry to add subs and chapters as well.

[Elias]

Originally posted by Doom9
One of the things still missing from mp4box is a means to give a stream a language.. once that's all in mp4box, it shouldn't be too hard making a gui for it.. I'm currently considering switching to mp4box in MeGUI and to support multiple languages.. and for testing purposes, having the muxer exposed like it currently is in the settings would make sense.. and from that it's not a far cry to add subs and chapters as well. Don't forget the option to tag in the component field. That's like the only thing I need Dumpster for. However, it's far from userfriendly with Dumpster. Would be great if MP4Box could add support for this. By the way hhanh00, good idea. I don't think it's impossible at all and that you should give it a shot.

[giandrea]

Originally posted by bond
therefore its also pretty irrelevent what format (video, container, chapters or whatever) sony uses on these discs as only sony's tools will handle them anyways
That's not true at all. If you had read the thread I mentioned before, you would know that it is possible to play PMF files from Memory Stick, because someone was showing this at an event in Korea, we even have the files. :)
PMF files is the only way to play full resolution on PSP, and the only way to use H264 on PSP as well; so finding the way to play those files from the Memory Stick (noone succeeded in this as of now), and finding the way to encode those files (this should be easier, apart from the ATRAC3 audio), would be a big gain for the community.
Anyway we could always hope for H264 in MP4 support in the next firmware release of the PSP, that would be much easier. ;)
Originally posted by Doom9
I guess you shouldn't have said that out loud.. now it won't take long and you have a bunch of people "volunteering" for testing even though they just care to get their stuff done.. sorta like the doves in "Finding Nemo" screaming "me, me".
eheheh, typical! ;) ;)

[bond]

Originally posted by hhanh00
About the GUI, I was thinking about adding the option of working with mp4 files to VirtualDub by merging some code from mp4box. It obviously won't be easy. I did some search on the forums and no one seems to have considered that. That leaves me a little queasy. Is it in fact *impossible*?
To be honest, I don't know much about the mp4 and avi containers and I'd rather learn more before undergoing that task. well i hope this becomes more than a plan, count on me if you need someone for testing ;)

and no, its surely not impossible. whats impossible is variable framerate support in virtualdub (as vfw doesnt handle that), but the same goes for matroska and matroska is supported in vdm already, as hardly anyone uses vfr anyways

Originally posted by giandrea
That's not true at all. If you had read the thread I mentioned before, you would know that it is possible to play PMF files from Memory Stick, because someone was showing this at an event in Korea, we even have the files.my point was that we dont get the files from the umd or on the umd (unless sony releases a umd burner for joe average). whether umd uses .pmf, .mp4 or .wtf for umd, its irrelevant for me if i cant create nor extract/edit that umd data
regarding the memory stick: if the psp can play normal resolution mpeg-4 streams from the pmf format but not from mp4, it speaks for sonys evilness itself...

[hhanh00]

Ok. Thanks for the replies. Let's see how it goes. :)

--h

[JoeBG]

Originally posted by hhanh00
Ok. Thanks for the replies. Let's see how it goes. :)

--h

Be sure to get every support you need.

[planet1]

I guess nero doesnt follow the chapter implementation by the "mpeg-4 book" but this might be of use anyway:

13/04/2005 [MP4] Added nero chapters support.

http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/

[bond]

great stuff :)

[JoeBG]

Originally posted by hhanh00
Ok. Thanks for the replies. Let's see how it goes. :)

--h

How does it go? ;)

[xmltok]

What are my options to export chapters from an IFO on Linux?

[KpeX]

Originally posted by xmltok
What are my options to export chapters from an IFO on Linux? lsdvd (and most other libdvdread-based utilities) can do it, whether it's in the format you want is another question ;). I usually either manipulate the lsdvd output using bash or emulate chapter-x-tractor with wine.

[xmltok]

Originally posted by KpeX
lsdvd (and most other libdvdread-based utilities) can do it, whether it's in the format you want is another question ;). I usually either manipulate the lsdvd output using bash or emulate chapter-x-tractor with wine.

I was just trying to use dvdxchap but it seems like libdvdread will only work with a device and not a directory. I'll try the others you suggested.

[xmltok]

Success! lsdvd does exactly what I needed. Thank you very much.

And incase anyone else is using lsdvd and wants to make create chapters for their mp4. It seems like QT7 ignores these though :(

#!/usr/bin/perl
#this thing requires Time::Format from CPAN and lsdvd from http://untrepid.com/acidrip/lsdvd.html
use Time::Format;

die "Usage: $0 <chapter>" if !($chp = $ARGV[0]);
{
$foo = `lsdvd -p -c -t $chp .`;
eval ($foo);
$rtime=0;
print "00:00:00.000 Chapter 1\n";
foreach (@{$lsdvd{track}[0]{chapter}}) {
my %chapter = %$_;
$rtime += $chapter{length};
$ix = $chapter{ix}+1;
print "$time{'hh:mm:ss.mmm', $rtime+28800} Chapter $ix\n";
}
}