The truth about the matrix! Mother matrix?

[cypher_soundz]

http://www.playahata.com/pages/interviews/interview_sophiastewartpt1.htm

amazing, seem like the Wachowski brothers may have some explaining to do?:rolleyes:

Regards
cyph

[Cyberman]

Hmm.
I don´t like the way she talks. Maybe it´s her work, but maybe it isn´t. Right now, I suppose it´s the latter. Perhaps I´m wrong.

[Nic]

Hmmm, So she wrote a manuscript called "Third Eye" which is 9 chapters long, but is both the Terminator and the Matrix? And hence she should get royalties from both. And, also the phrase "I'll be back" is from the same script and she created that too....but we can't actually see this manuscript publically to confirm what she states.

<wayne>Schyeah, Right.</wayne> ;)
(Maybe that's harsh, but I just can't see it...Neither film was that original, so alot of people could call prior art. I even remember an old Doctor Who episode, where he plugged himself into a machine and it was like he was in real life, the machine was called "The Matrix".)

-Nic

[niamh]

Oh boy, this is juicy..........

Judge Margaret Morrow of Central District of California made the decision to have the courts proceed with the biggest copyright infringement and racketeering case in movie history.
:D :D

Is there a way to get hold of the book anywhere I wonder? It's copyrighted 1981, so if it effectively exists, then I can't see why she would lie; it's going to be easy to check ... In any case, it's going to be a very nice scandal ;) And she will make a best-seller out of that book at any rate.

[Nic]

"I can't see why she would lie" ?
I can think of a few million reasons and they are all green ;)

Harlan Ellison already sucessfully sued over Terminator (saying his works "Demon With a Glass Hand" and "Soldier" were used to create The Terminator). His name now appears in the credits and his works pre-date Sophia Stewart's work. So could he now sue her? ;)

-Nic

[niamh]

"I can't see why she would lie" ?
I can think of a few million reasons and they are all green

Well yes ;), but in this case, surely she will lose the trial... The book either is like the matrix, or isn't (or rather vice-versa). The fact that she sues over Terminator as well is what looks weird indeed. No point speculating I guess before all this is over (few years? lol)

[KpeX]

Yes this woman definitely 'invented' the concepts of A.I. robots turning against us and 'the one savior' that will save humanity. No one ever thought of that before 1981. And anyone that uses those concepts since stole her work. [/sarcasm] As Nic said neither the matrix or terminator used original literary concepts. What made those movies succesful was the way they told the story, not the story they told.

[dragongodz]

Is there a way to get hold of the book anywhere I wonder? It's copyrighted 1981, so if it effectively exists, then I can't see why she would lie; it's going to be easy to check
well from what i gather it is not a book at all but rather a manuscript, meaning not published. to quote
she said she knew it was based on her original manuscript entitled the "The Third Eye,"

The book either is like the matrix, or isn't (or rather vice-versa). The fact that she sues over Terminator as well is what looks weird indeed.
yes when she says
Terminator starts from the front of my book to the back. Matrix starts from the back of my book and works its way to the front. They are moving in two opposite directions.
now i would love to know how she worked that one out. :confused:

as for
"The Third Eye" is an epic, my book spans three time frames the past, the present and the future. Those films do the same thing.
wow there has never been another book or movie to do that before right. :rolleyes:

[OT]
his works "Demon With a Glass Hand"
a brilliant read. i highly reccomend it. :D

[niamh]

Yes, she seems a bit cracked in the head all right ;)

I'll try that Demon with a glass hand(If I can find it), I'm in need of a good book to read this week :)

[dragongodz]

I'll try that Demon with a glass hand(If I can find it), I'm in need of a good book to read this week
i dont know if he ever released it in normal book form. i know it was done as an episode of the 60's outer limits tv show, as was soldier. it was also done as a graphic novel in the 80's which is what i was refering to. it is meant to be based on his original script and have scenes that were never filmed for the tv show. :)

also Dimension films optioned Demon as a full movie a few years ago but i havent seen anything more actually happening yet(if ever ?).

sorry for the off topic, back on track now. :)

[cypher_soundz]

Originally posted by Nic
I even remember an old Doctor Who episode, where he plugged himself into a machine and it was like he was in real life, the machine was called "The Matrix"

wow lol that does give me new views,


Harlan Ellison already sucessfully sued over Terminator (saying his works "Demon With a Glass Hand" and "Soldier" were used to create The Terminator). His name now appears in the credits and his works pre-date Sophia Stewart's work. So could he now sue her?

although the work stil lpre-dates Sophia...

Sophia Stewart: I have not seen The Terminator film so I never knew. They can’t punish me for not having seen The Terminator. Actually my friend James Perry read the "Third Eye" and said "wow, this is The Terminator movie" but initially I never paid much attention to him. To this day the studio only tried to dismiss my case by saying the statue of limitation had expired but copyright laws go by “discovery date”, so they start from when the plaintiff discovers the problem.

It also says that she gave the script to them after she wrote it , but got no feedback etc.

I my self wouldn't mind reading this script, theres "fake" verison doing the rounds on the net, but if any one finds the script please post / "quote" depending on the rights :)

[EDIT]
And just as in the movies themselves The Mother of The Matrix is a BLACK WOMAN!
lol that does remind me of that episode of friends about the "dr monkey" joke:
Originally said by Friends character Ross in TOW The Joke Ross: Are you kidding? Okay, look. I-I studied evolution. Remember, evolution? Monkey into man? Plus, I’m a doctor, and I had a monkey. I’m Doctor Monkey!


Regards
cyph

[Cyberman]

Originally posted by dragongodz
yes when she says

Terminator starts from the front of my book to the back. Matrix starts from the back of my book and works its way to the front. They are moving in two opposite directions.
now i would love to know how she worked that one out. :confused:


Actually that part made most sense, IMO. The two stories, Terminator and Matrix, could indeed be one large story - Matris is obviously the future, where mankind has failed, while Terminator is past/present where mankind still fights.

It´d be a hard to write a book that contains both at the same time, but the concept itself isn´t new either - many books feature two seemingly unconnected characters who eventually meet when the story is resolved.

[dragongodz]

I even remember an old Doctor Who episode, where he plugged himself into a machine and it was like he was in real life, the machine was called "The Matrix"
the deadly assasin ,first aired 1976. the Matrix is a repository of knowledge formed from the minds of dead Time Lords. when entered it is like reality.
a quote from that episode
the Doctor: "I deny this reality. The reality is a computation matrix."
the matrix was also mentioned in other epsisodes with later doctors aswell.

sorry for again going slightly off topic. :)

[Joe Fenton]

An unpublished manuscript she CLAIMS to have sent them, which was only read by a third party AFTER the movies came out... I'm more than a little suspicious. It wouldn't be the first time someone tried to scam a major studio over a copyright issue. Just look at the case of Nancy Stouffer against WB and Rowling over Harry Potter. It was demonstrated that she actually tried altering her material in an effort to make it look more like infringement. She not only lost the case, but was fined for trying to perpetrate a fraud on the court.

I won't say this is the same, but when there's hundreds of millions of dollars at stake, people will go a long way to try to get a cut.

[Doobie]

There's not a blockbuster movie made that doesn't have someone claiming their story was stolen. If there's not more coverage, it's because there's not more credibility to the charges.

[Mug Funky]

Kill Bill v1 = Lady Snowblood (1970's Japanese film with a very cute insane samurai)

[edit]

who's got some other ripoff movies? i'm not talking the obvious ones like "the ring" "the grudge" etc...

[dragongodz]

you cant really call Kill Bill a rippoff of Lady Snowblood though because Tarantino freely admits it was one of the inspirations for Kill Bill. he even uses the Lady Snowblood theme.
http://lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=952&IssueNum=51

speaking of Lady Snowblood, i just saw the preview for it last week on the Once Upon a Time in China dvd. wow look at the sauce fly. :D

EDIT:
ok thought of one that may qualify Mug Funky.
Once Upon a Time in China and America(the 6th movie in the series) was based on an idea originally proposed to the studio by Jacki Chan. he later went on to make the idea himself aswell, shanghai noon.

[niamh]

Freely admitting it doesn't mean he should get away with it :angry:. Lady Snowblood (I) is everything Kill Bill isn't(great fun, extremely original, quirky B movie) and yet, who made the money? :rolleyes:
I'm glad they're finally out on DVD [/end of rant]

Are we talking ripoffs proper though (with assorted trial), or so-called " adaptations" where the rights have been paid to the original person? In that case, the list is endless (magnificent seven and so on)

[dragongodz]

Freely admitting it doesn't mean he should get away with it
it does mean he is not trying to hide it though. even using the theme ,which i assume he would have had to pay for, may be considered a nod to Lady Snowbloods influence.

Are we talking ripoffs proper though (with assorted trial), or so-called " adaptations" where the rights have been paid to the original person?
well if the rights have been paid for then its not really a rippoff. however a trial doesnt have to make a rippoff either.

i thought of a classic example.
The Lion King by Dysney. ripoff of Jungle Taite(Jungle Emperor), called Kimba the White Lion in the west. even the actors such as Mathew Broderick thought they were doing a movie version of Kimba. somehow the execs at Dysney somehow never ever heard of Kimba though and flatly deny any sort of similarity. ripoff bigtime.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Mug Funky

Kill Bill v1 = Lady Snowblood (1970's Japanese film with a very cute insane samurai)

Just got one of this flashbacks... ^^

- Master of the flying Guillotine
- Snake in the Eagle's Shadow
- The one armed Swordsman
- The one armed Boxer
- Blind Fist Of Bruce
- Hammer of Gods
- Lady Snowblood
- Drunken Master
- Lone Wolf
- Zatoichi
- [...]

Bye

[smok3]

hehe, she studied things..., and i always thought the matrix was written by some IRC hackers - taking things to seriously that is.

so, basically Wachowski bros did a nice looking storyboard? (again not really their work, since i imagine they hired some good artist for that part as well.)

[Joe Fenton]

Don't forget westerns -

The Magnificent Seven = Seven Samurai

[Mug Funky]

Just got one of this flashbacks... ^^

- Master of the flying Guillotine
- Snake in the Eagle's Shadow
- The one armed Swordsman
- The one armed Boxer
- Blind Fist Of Bruce
- Hammer of Gods
- Lady Snowblood
- Drunken Master
- Lone Wolf
- Zatoichi
- [...]

Bye


i'm lolling... most of these are only just coming out. i just saw Lady Snowblood - Love Song of Vengeance, and Zatoichi meets the One Armed Swordsman the other day. pretty good films actually. shitty sound unfortunately (they restored the video but didn't touch the sound it seems), but what can you do?

not sure about lone wolf and cub though... are those films any good?

btw, it'd be kinda cool to see how hollywood interprets Zatoichi - there's a lot to get out of that character.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Mug Funky

i'm lolling... most of these are only just coming out. i just saw Lady Snowblood - Love Song of Vengeance, and Zatoichi meets the One Armed Swordsman the other day. pretty good films actually. shitty sound unfortunately (they restored the video but didn't touch the sound it seems), but what can you do?

I watched them long time ago on VHS !!!

Lol @ Zatoichi meets The One Armed Swordsman... ^^

Also watch The one armed Boxer -vs- The Flying Guillotine !!!


Originally posted by Mug Funky

not sure about lone wolf and cub though... are those films any good?

Just read the review... (http://www.heroic-cinema.com/review.php?ID=sworveng) :D

Imo all flicks where the villain repeats "Muahaha" 1k times are watch-worthy !!!


Bye

[adam]

There are all kinds of documented rip offs. The script for Rocky III was blatantly ripped off from the screenwriter, and the studio basically admitted it. He didn't contract to write the script, he just did it on his own and sent it in. The studio liked it and used it without giving him anything. The guy sued and the court held, rightly, that he can't obtain a copyright in the script he wrote because it is a derivative work of the original Rocky I and II films. There was nothing he could do.

The final scenes in Resevoir Dogs (standoff) were copied frame by frame from an old Japanese film. I saw a special on tv and the copying was EXACT down to the character's names. He very well may have had the rights to do this, but the show I watched made a big stink over it.

As for these Matrix/Terminator accusations, well you'd have to parse her manuscript and count up the material similarities. There's really no way to know until you do that, but just looking at her claims that the characters are the same, it sounds like total bs. I see no similarity there and everything else she talks about is just non-protectable concepts and ideas which are free to use, even if the Wachowski brothers did lift them directly out of her manuscript.

As for her knowledge of the law working as a paralegal, unless she plans to live to 105 years old, copyrights do not last anywhere near that long even in the US and she admitted that her friend told her about the Terminator movie and she did nothing. She CAN and WILL be punished for that even if she hadn't seen the movie. Its called constructive knowledge and will certainly trigger the clock for statute of limitations purposes.

[dragongodz]

The Magnificent Seven = Seven Samurai
but is it really a ripoff ? that is i think i remember seeing a documentary or something on the dvd explaining how Magnificent Seven was based on Seven Samurai. so again its not something hidden or denied. i will have to rent the dvd out again and watch it to see what it says about it. :)

about the Terminator movie
since Harlan Ellison already sucessfully sued over Terminator being based on Demon and Soldier, which were from the 1960's, wouldnt that also then make her manuscript a potential target for him if it has as many similarities as she claims ?

EDIT:
not sure about lone wolf and cub though... are those films any good?
the first 2 are well worth watching, they were originaly released in the west as Sword of Vengeance(1) and Baby Cart at the River Styx(2). some of the later ones are a bit dull and predictable IMHO. most have been shown on SBS(Aus tv channel for those wondering) in the past, pity they dont seem to show such things as much now.

[niamh]

btw, it'd be kinda cool to see how hollywood interprets Zatoichi - there's a lot to get out of that character.
Oh, but it has been done!! You didn't expect them to miss that one, really, did you?
I'll tell you now, it's bad .The only redeeming feature is Rutger Hauer. It's the only thing that stopped me falling asleep halfway anyway :D
It's called Blind Fury. Only if you have nothing else better to do. Or you can try and shoot the inevitable annoying kid; Or trim your nails.

Imo all flicks where the villain repeats "Muahaha" 1k times are watch-worthy !!!
Absolutely and entirely agreed!

[cypher_soundz]

Has anyone seen to sir with love (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062376/) (1 and 2) its a lot like dangerous minds, not sure if its a rip off though?
Regards
cyph