Full Frame (4:3) Changed to 16:9

[Jeff Mott]

I'm trying backup my copy of the full frame version of "The Ring". Everything seems fine except the main movie, which is supposed to be 4:3 is changed to 16:9 by DVDRB.

I decrypted with DVD Decrypter. Using CCE Basic with RB. Set the paths for CCE and dgdecode in setup and made sure CCE mode was selected, otherwise didn't change any settings. Any ideas what's causing it?

[Rockas]

I don't think that's possible... Rebuilder can't do that... unless you selected the option "Convert from LB 4:3 to 16:9" under advanced AVS options.

[Jeff Mott]

Well neither did I, but it's happening somehow. I play the original decrypted files in Media Player Classic and everything is the way it's supposed to be. I hand those files off to DVD-RB and load the output in MPC and the main movie is recognized as 16:9 (obviously resulting in a squished picture).

"Convert from LB 4:3 to 16:9" is not selected.

[mayhem2408]

@Jeff
I am seeing the same problem, only I have using HC Encoder instead of CCE.

[crimescene]

I am having the same problem when I try to back up Family Guy. I do not have the convert to 16:9 option selected. I am using CCE basic, and have also tried it with HC. I originally used the .79 installer, then upgraded to each pro version as they came out extracting them to the RB directory. Could there be another setting somewhere that causes the conversion? The menus appears fine, it's the main movie that converts to letterbox. Any help would be appreciated.

[mrslacker]

Originally posted by crimescene
Could there be another setting somewhere that causes the conversion? The menus appears fine, it's the main movie that converts to letterbox.
To clarify, Rebuilder's "convert from LB 4:3 to 16:9" crops the black bars off the top and bottom, as they are actually encoded in the picture, and flags the stream's aspect ratio to 16:9. It doesn't convert to letterbox; it removes the letterboxing to claim the wasted bit space and resolution for the actual picture.

Your players are stretching the picture to the ratio indicated in the stream. Acually, standalones are supposed to obey the ratio indicated in the IFO. So, to figure out where the problem is, open the title's ifo in IFOEdit or PgcEdit and check the domain stream attributes for program chain (PGC) that is being displayed in correctly. Compare to the original. It should be the same. To check the aspect ratio stored in the mpeg stream, load the relevant VOB, or the temporary m2v with DGIndex or restream.

Note: MPC doesn't always respect the AR of mpeg streams for some reason. However, It always plays correctly when the IFO is loaded (using the DVD Navigator).

[Fishman0919]

Same problem here with Family Guy Season 1 Disc 1, I'm using DVD-Rb .82 pro and CCE Basic 2.70. in the Video Title Set window it said 4:3 but when played back..16:9


Edit: Family Guy Season 3 Disc 2 and 3 came out fine

[mrslacker]

Unless your tv is in 16:9 mode (only HD displays can do that)... do a quick check of the title's video attributes to see if there is an authoring problem. If the IFO actually shows 16:9 as the ratio (I would be surprised), there is a problem. Check the original too.

To check the VTS video attributes with ifoedit:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1196/ifoeditvtsvideoattributes2ix.jpg

OR with PgcEdit, select the title, right click Domain Stream Attributes:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1363/pgceditdomainstreamattributes2.jpg

EDIT: moved images to imageshack

[crimescene]

Using Ifoedit on the movie after it has been run thru RB, it shows that the movie is 4:3, but for "Automatic Display Mode" it shows "Not Specified". I will try to copy and paste it here....


[00000100] Video attributes of VTSM_VOBS 17152 [4300]
Video attribute details:
Video compression MPEG-2
TV system NTSC 525/60
Aspect ratio 4:3
Automatic Display Mode not specified
CC for Line21-1 (NTSC only) no data
CC for Line21-2 (NTSC only) no data
Bit Rate VBR
Source Resolution 720x480 (NTSC)
Letterboxed top&bottom cropped no
Mode Camera


[00000200] Video attributes of VTSTT_VOBS 17152 [4300]
Video attribute details:
Video compression MPEG-2
TV system NTSC 525/60
Aspect ratio 4:3
Automatic Display Mode not specified
CC for Line21-1 (NTSC only) no data
CC for Line21-2 (NTSC only) no data
Bit Rate VBR
Source Resolution 720x480 (NTSC)
Letterboxed top&bottom cropped no
Mode Camera

On the original source movie after being run thru DVDDecrypter it shows:

[00000100] Video attributes of VTSM_VOBS 17152 [4300]
Video attribute details:
Video compression MPEG-2
TV system NTSC 525/60
Aspect ratio 4:3
Automatic Display Mode not specified
CC for Line21-1 (NTSC only) no data
CC for Line21-2 (NTSC only) no data
Bit Rate VBR
Source Resolution 720x480 (NTSC)
Letterboxed top&bottom cropped no
Mode Camera

[00000200] Video attributes of VTSTT_VOBS 19712 [4d00]
Video attribute details:
Video compression MPEG-2
TV system NTSC 525/60
Aspect ratio 16:9
Automatic Display Mode pan-scan
CC for Line21-1 (NTSC only) no data
CC for Line21-2 (NTSC only) no data
Bit Rate VBR
Source Resolution 720x480 (NTSC)
Letterboxed top&bottom cropped no
Mode Camera

I am a newbie, and have never used ifoedit, so I have no idea what most of this means....

Any help (and education) is greatly appreciated.



:confused:

[jdobbs]

I'll pick up a copy of Family Guy Season 1 and see how it comes out.

[crimescene]

Thank you sir!! If it's any help, when I try it with Shrink, the movie plays 4:3 (but I'm not comparing the Incredible DVD-RB to Shrink).

;)

[Jeff Mott]

I just tried Family Guy Season 1 with DVD-RB 0.89 freeware version. Experienced what everyone else did (so we at least know we're not all crazy ;) ). For some reason the main movie sequences are set with a 16:9 AR.

[Fiebre]

This also happened for me on some of the fist season of Lost in Space, though not all of them. I ended up redoing them on shrink just to be on the safe side. Good thing they were low quality black and white to start out with.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by crimescene
Thank you sir!! If it's any help, when I try it with Shrink, the movie plays 4:3 (but I'm not comparing the Incredible DVD-RB to Shrink).

;) That really won't help. Shrink works nothing like DVD Rebuilder.

[jdobbs]

This is a really odd problem. I just went back through the code, and DVD-RB copies those files intact and never touches that section unless the "convert to 16:9" option is set....

I'll see later when I pick up a copy of "Family Guy" Season 1.

[jdobbs]

Ok... there is a way for IFO aspect ratio to get changed. Here's what appears to be happening: The video stream itself is flagged as 16:9 (at least the ending segment). DVD-RB is seeing that 16:9 flag and, when rebuilding, is making the assumption that a conversion from 4:3 to 16:9 was made and is updating the IFO. Interesting that someone would set the flag for 16:9 on a 4:3 source. The reason it plays alright on the original (or a transcoded copy) is because on the player the IFO has precedence. So no matter what aspect ratio the stream says, it plays back in the aspect ratio shown in the IFO.

I've "tricked" players that way myself in the past. The old authoring package "SpruceUp" would only support 4:3, so I used to stretch the source in the vertical direction -- encode at 4:3 and then edit the IFO and tell it to playback in 16:9... in that case the stream's flags were wrong too.

Anyway, at least half the blame is mine -- I shouldn't have changed the IFO unless it was explicitly called for, and I've fixed it for v0.91.

[Fiebre]

Thanks JDobbs! I knew you'd be able to fix it. ;)

[mrslacker]

Well, what's interesting about crimescene's IfoEdit data (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=637152#post637152) (a few posts above) is that it indicates the following:

Original Rip
[00000200] Video attributes of VTSTT_VOBS 19712 [4d00]
Aspect ratio 16:9
Automatic Display Mode pan-scan

RB Processed
[00000200] Video attributes of VTSTT_VOBS 17152 [4300]
Aspect ratio 4:3
Automatic Display Mode not specified

This is reporting the mode from the ifo, not the mpeg stream, right?

If so (and if this is the right ifo we're looking at), it sounds like the original is P/S'd 16:9 to produce the fullscreen picture. That would be pretty odd, not to mention a crappy way to accomplish fullscreen playback. Can that really be correct? The RB-processed ifo would produce a widescreen-looking image with bars on the left and right, assuming they were coded with P/S in mind, hence the reports. But I somehow can't accept that scenario. It would require a sickening level of incompetence on behalf of the authoring studio.

EDIT: I saw the 0.91 update. I hope it fixes the problem.

[mrslacker]

I don't doubt that you found a bug, jdobbs. Although, I am still confused about the ifo info from crimescene. Assuming he posted the the attributes from the right VTS ifo, it doesn't add up.

Anyone who experienced this problem:
Could you check the actual video stream to determine for which aspect ratio the stream is flagged? Just run mpegseq (http://chappjc.home.comcast.net/mpegseq.exe) and select a vob file. The actual episodes would be in a VTS VOB ending in "_1.VOB" to "_9.VOB". Check any/all, but preferably not the first file. VOBS ending in "_0.VOB" are just menus. It will work on the command line as well. Thanks a ton! This just seems so weird, it's intriguing.

NOTE: To use mpegseq.exe, the Matlab component runtime is necessary. Sorry. It's time for me to get a practical dev environment. It's here (http://www.biochem.med.umich.edu/biochem/courses/bc673/downloads/MCRInstaller.exe) among other places that have MCRInstaller.exe.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by mrslacker
Well, what's interesting about crimescene's IfoEdit data (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=637152#post637152) (a few posts above) is that it indicates the following:

Original Rip
[00000200] Video attributes of VTSTT_VOBS 19712 [4d00]
Aspect ratio 16:9
Automatic Display Mode pan-scan

RB Processed
[00000200] Video attributes of VTSTT_VOBS 17152 [4300]
Aspect ratio 4:3
Automatic Display Mode not specified

This is reporting the mode from the ifo, not the mpeg stream, right?

If so (and if this is the right ifo we're looking at), it sounds like the original is P/S'd 16:9 to produce the fullscreen picture. That would be pretty odd, not to mention a crappy way to accomplish fullscreen playback. Can that really be correct? The RB-processed ifo would produce a widescreen-looking image with bars on the left and right, assuming they were coded with P/S in mind, hence the reports. But I somehow can't accept that scenario. It would require a sickening level of incompetence on behalf of the authoring studio.

EDIT: I saw the 0.91 update. I hope it fixes the problem. Hmmm... I read that backwards. You're right. How could the IFO say 16:9 and it plays back 4:3 (except as you mentioned) -- and DVD-RB never changes the IFO from 16:9 to 4:3, it can't. Something doesn't click here...

[crimescene]

I have to admit, I don't understand the process..... However, I just tried Disc 1 of the Family guy again with .91 pro and it is now displaying correctly. It is entirely possible that in my earlier post, I posted from the wrong vts file. I certainly tried to follow the instructions posted.....

[jdobbs]

All that matters is that it works now.
:)

[Fishman0919]

THX jdobbs :D

[magnu]

I am having a problem with DVD Rebuilder Pro, where the same thing is happening. With myself, it is a file I have created, & compressed with Canopus ProCoder.
The Software I used to author is TMPGenc DVD Author, & IFOEdit seems to tell me the menu is in NTSC, with Automatic Display Mode reading Pan & Scan and Letterbox.
I presume the second part (Automatic Display Mode) is normal, however the Menu I'd like in PAL (have never seen any option in TMPGenc DVD Author to alter this?).

I've actually set the DVD not to include the menu anyway, but IFOEdit has Automatic Display Mode as Unspecified?

I'm new to IFOEdit, so I have no idea how it works, but I would have thought the disc should work out ok when converted after using DVD Rebuilder?

Also, there is no setting showing in my version of Rebuilder, in the location specified, to change aspect ratios? And so, I'm wondering if the problem is with ProCoder, which has a setting to switch between Letterbox & Pan & Scan?
I had it set to change something previously to Letterbox, so will try another conversion at the Pan & Scan setting, to see what happens.

Previously, I didn't have any problems with Rebuilder & Procoder, but now I'm wondering if I need to manually change settings in ProCoder prior to using Rebuilder?

[Carpo]

I'll pick up a copy of Family Guy Season 1 and see how it comes out.

so thats where the donations go :D

[magnu]

Following on from my last post, the problem I appear to be having is DVD-RB Pro is changing the settings of my DVD, so that it will play on a Widescreen TV (that is, squashing my 4:3 image).
I haven't made any adjustments in DVD-RB, to ask it to do this, & I cannot see any indication in the various settings that it is set to do so.

What do I need to do?

[borgraf]

...From your description it doesn't sound like DVD-RB is the cause of your problem.

[magnu]

From your description it doesn't sound like DVD-RB is the cause of your problem.

I suspect it's possibly Procoder, so I'm doing it all again now, but using CCE instead to see what happens. My original, uncompressed DVD authored version plays on everything fine, & there are no mention of it being in widescreen.

[nyt]

Using RBPro 0.93.1, HC 0.15 (which sees the aspect as 4:3), movie only, source recognized as 16:9 (PAL), the result ends up set at 4:3 (with several movies). I manually fix it using IfoEdit.