Muxman 0.13 released

[Paulcat]

I's like to second CoNs request for a subtitle colour import. I know you mentioned in another post that the default palette for MuxMan is the same as it is for Scenarist...well not owning a copy of Scenarist leaves me a bit in the dark (I am using Subtitle Creator to make my bitmaps and tending to see only black and white) so I was wondering if you or someone else in the know can tell be what the default colours are, this way I can continue to be lazy and not have to pull colours from other IFO files with IFOEdit...

Of course I assume eventually you will have a palette editor in MuxMan...

[mpucoder]

The easy way to see the default palette is to save a project with Muxman, even an empty one, then look at the project file.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Can somebody remind me how to input the chapter listings please?

DVDdecrypter offers the following options: -CCE: -

chapter=0:
chapter=6508:
chapter=11114:
chapter=14496:
chapter=18831:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DVDLab: -

00:00:00:000
00:04:20:000
00:07:24:000
00:09:39:000
00:12:33:000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IfoEdit: -

6508
11114
14496
18831
22315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LBA: -

CHAPTER_01:VTS_02_1 - 0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 - 720x576 (PAL) - 16~9 - Letterboxed.M2V:0
CHAPTER_02:VTS_02_1 - 0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 - 720x576 (PAL) - 16~9 - Letterboxed.M2V:79291
CHAPTER_03:VTS_02_1 - 0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 - 720x576 (PAL) - 16~9 - Letterboxed.M2V:123554
CHAPTER_04:VTS_02_1 - 0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 - 720x576 (PAL) - 16~9 - Letterboxed.M2V:161018
CHAPTER_05:VTS_02_1 - 0xE0 - Video - MPEG-2 - 720x576 (PAL) - 16~9 - Letterboxed.M2V:206059
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OGG: -

CHAPTER01=00:00:00.000
CHAPTER01NAME=Chapter 1
CHAPTER02=00:04:20.320
CHAPTER02NAME=Chapter 2
CHAPTER03=00:07:24.560
CHAPTER03NAME=Chapter 3
CHAPTER04=00:09:39.840
CHAPTER04NAME=Chapter 4
CHAPTER05=00:12:33.240
CHAPTER05NAME=Chapter 5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scenarist: -

00:00:00;00
00:04:20;08
00:07:24;14
00:09:39;21
00:12:33;06
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DVDMaestro: -

$Spruce_IFrame_List

00:00:00:00
00:04:20:08
00:07:24:14
00:09:39:21
00:12:33:06
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BSPlayer: -

[CHAPTERS]
1=0 Chapter 1
2=6508 Chapter 2
3=11114 Chapter 3
4=14496 Chapter 4
5=18831 Chapter 5Can any of them be used with MuxMan?


Cheers

[bourtzovlakas]

The IfoEdit way, definitely works....
I am not sure about the others....

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bourtzovlakas
The IfoEdit way, definitely works....
I am not sure about the others.... So MuxMan is frame number based only!

Thanks... I had forgot this.


Cheers

[CoNS]

mpucoder, about the subtitle colours: r0lZ also thought it was too much of a hassle to implement a function in PgcEdit to parse all PGCs in an .ifo and to let the user select the relevant PGC to copy the colours from.

However, he has now added an import/export subtitle colour function in the latest version of PgcEdit (v0.5.2beta2), which add an export and an import button in the color lookup table editor, so that you will be able to save the color table, and reuse it whenever you need it.

The new function loads/saves the raw, unmodified color table in binary, as it is stored in the IFO (64 YCrCb bytes - the first byte of each color is a null, pad byte) with a .CLB file extension ("PGC Color Lookup Table" file).

It would be really great if you would add a "Import subtitle colours" function in MuxMan (right below the "Import Chapters" function in File menu) which simply loads such a .CLB file and uses the colours for the project. Please? As you can see, more users would find such a function very useful, it's not just me who keeps buggin' ya! :D

EDIT: The latest beta of PgcEdit is available via the "All Versions" link of the PgcEdit homepage at VideoHelp (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/).

[Paulcat]

Originally posted by mpucoder
The easy way to see the default palette is to save a project with Muxman, even an empty one, then look at the project file.
Or, open IFOEdit and check it out from there. Thanks for the reply, but I think my problems are arising in Subtitle Creator...

[stickboy]

Originally posted by Paulcat
Originally posted by mpucoder
The easy way to see the default palette is to save a project with Muxman, even an empty one, then look at the project file.Or, open IFOEdit and check it out from there. Thanks for the reply, but I think my problems are arising in Subtitle Creator...The IFOEdit way will give you YCbCr values, whereas looking at Muxman's .mxp file will show you RGB ones.

[D3s7]

Just a note to all in NTSC land using muxman...

If you use a pulled down asset for muxman, it does the opposite w/ .5 frames as scenarist

Scenarist appends the missing field and add's the frame, muxman drops the extra field and uses the last full frame.. - only really matters for chapter locations

[jsoto]

Hi,

I know 448k is the usual maximum rate in DD tracks included in DVDs and I'm not sure if a DD with a bitrate of 512k or 640k in DVDs is legit or not, but muxman accepts them

Because these bitrates have a frame size higher than the available room in one pack, there will be some packs without a frame header.
In my understanding, in these packs, muxman fails:
- Frame header count is filled to one. I believe it has to be zero.
- First access unit pointer is pointing out of the pack.

jsoto

PS: You can easily create a 512k/640k ac3 with besweet using a 384k as input:
BeSweet.exe -core( -input "Audio_384.ac3" -output "Audio_640.ac3" -logfile "Audio_640.log" ) -azid( -g 1 -c normal ) -ac3enc( -b 640 )

[mpucoder]

Or you could use silence. Anyway, 448 is the maximum allowed for DVD, so I'll add a check to reject these files. The reason for the max is probably related to pack size.

[jsoto]

TMPGEnc DVD Author and IFOEdit accept and mux the files, apparently ok. PowerDVD is able to play the produced DVDs.
I'd like to know what Scenarist does...
Or you could use silence. I forgot it!
jsoto

[mpucoder]

Scenarist accepted and muxed it. So I guess one book is wrong, and I'll be making a different change to Muxman.
One thing, though, could you send me a sample with audio to test playback? I don't do a lot of encoding, so can't make one myself without a big hassle. Silence may be golden, but it is no test of playback.

[jsoto]

Here they are:
www.videohelp.com/~jsoto/AudioTests/audios_ac3_highspeed.zip

I didn't test them in my 5.1 settop (I do not have 5.1 in my PC), because I encoded them just before go work. But they should work.

jsoto

[mpucoder]

Well, on my two Sony settops the 640Kbps is choppy, and at the same rate as the packs with no audio header occur (every 0.384 seconds, or 2.6Hz - sounds like the guy has phlem stuck in his throat). I couldn't hear anything unusual at 512Kbps, but then the headerless packs occur every 2.016 seconds. As expected PowerDVD and Nero Showtime have no problem.

The mux is identical to Scenarist, and passes the Philips Video Verifier (for what it's worth), so I am releasing a new version 0.13g available at the Muxman homepage (http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/)
But I cannot recommend using these bitrates as it appears not all settop players (or any?) play them properly.

[jsoto]

Yes, they are not used bitates, I've never seen these bitrates in a DVD.

For your info, I've tested Muxman output in my settop(Thompson) + 5.1 (Phillips) and it works fine at 640k. So, at least one settop works.

Just for the record, Muxman output is slightly different versus TMPG DVD Author and IFOedit authoring. The last both produce a pack with PTS=0 in the packs without Frame header. Muxman outputs the PTS of the next Frame header, so there are two audio packs with the same PTS

jsoto

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by jsoto
Just for the record, Muxman output is slightly different versus TMPG DVD Author and IFOedit authoring. The last both produce a pack with PTS=0 in the packs without Frame header. Muxman outputs the PTS of the next Frame header, so there are two audio packs with the same PTS
Are those actual PTS's of zero or the absense of a pts value? Vobedit show both the same way in the left pane, but the right pane will show a pes length of 0 or 5 and (if 5) the value.

My first attempt produced no pts field in the header (prior logic: no audio header = no pts) and Philips objected to it with error 3235, "pes packet payload for AC3 shall not exceed 2020 bytes". (without the pts field the payload is 2021 bytes)
So I looked at how Scenarist did it, which was simple to implement since the next pts value is always known - just don't suppress the field.

Just now I modified Muxman to make a pts of zero if there are no audio headers and the player froze at each packet, although Philips found no error.

[jsoto]

I didn't test in my settop+5.1 system the output produced by TMPG DVD Author or IFOEdit (the one with PTS=0), but I'll do and I'll let you know.
But probably not today, I have to work this night :(
jsoto

[SeeMoreDigital]

I could play the 512K file fine. But the 640K file was a bust... in a Pioneer DV-575A, Philips DVD711, LG FFH-DV25 and Sigma Xcard


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry but I have to ask... Is it Muxman (as stated in the thread header) or MuxMan (as stated in the GUI)?


Cheers

[mpucoder]

Doesn't really matter, although I should be consistent. It started as MuxMan in DevStudio, which is not easy to change. But then the webpage is Muxman, on case sensitive Linux servers. Yes, I have speling (sic) enabled, but it adds overhead for every correction. (for those who don't administer Apache servers, speling intercepts 404 errors (page not found) and searches for a page with similar spelling, starting with case insensitive. The filter name is intentionally mispelled)

Maybe a poll to decide? It was only a working title to begin with, until I thought of a better name - which has not happened yet.

edit: I just noticed that the zip files are muxman, totally lower case.

[mpucoder]

While trying a few things to maybe eliminate the chopping of 640Kbps AC3 I decided to run the Philips Video Verifier again on my output. jsoto's sample is just the right length to not have a header on the second to last pack. As a result, there is no pts, and the verifier complained. It took a lot of code to fix that one little thing which I don't think will bother anyone. So the fix will be in MuxMan 0.14

But here's the interesting part. I ran the verifier on Scenarist's output as I think having a pts on the last partial pack is incorrect. The differences between Scenarist and MuxMan surprised even me. This is using the same audio and bmp for what Scenarist calls a "slideshow"
Scenarist (http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/Scenarist_h640_vob.txt)
MuxMan (http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/MuxMan_h640_vob.txt)

(yes, my name is John Bigboote :D NOT it is a reference to my favorite cult classic (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086856/) )

Geez, encoder errors and lots of synci errors. Maybe this is why Ralph LaBarge thinks many DVD players are incapable of playing slideshow w/audio?

[Zeul]

just shows that muxman is king :D

[cmsoliveira]

Hi,

just one simple question...

Can i use an mxp file to add more than 8 subs? Or will muxman use only 8?

Thnx

[mpucoder]

mxp files still limit subs to 8 until version 0.14

[cmsoliveira]

mxp files still limit subs to 8 until version 0.14

:(

Hope it come out soon.

Great job,BTW.

[jsoto]

I've double checked in the settops I own, and everything works fine using 640 k ac3 samples.

- Internal downmix to stereo.
Works fine with both samples (Muxman and TMPG DVD Author).
Works fine in both settops

- Raw digital (coax) output, connected to a 5.1 Phillips amplifier
Works fine in both settops, both samples (Muxman and TMPG DVD Author)

Settops:
THOMPSON DTH5200
AIRIS 103C

jsoto
Now, going to work....

[mpucoder]

I was just hoping for something to make my settops work. That happens frequently that a minor error is ignored by some players and not others.

btw - I updated the verifier listing for Scenarist when I realized I had made a default 10 second slide, not the full 59:20 (NTSC) of the audio.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by mpucoder
Scenarist accepted and muxed it. So I guess one book is wrong, and I'll be making a different change to Muxman...


Well, first of all it's a pleasure to see that the authoring quality of MuxMan is better than the one of Scenarist. :)

For the quoted part (sorry if it's trivial what I say), IMHO it's very hard to believe books are wrong on such an important parameter like the maximum datarate of an ac3 audio stream. Much more realistic to think that even a blasoned authoring application like Scenarist may have bugs in it.

Maybe it's not even a matter of bugs, since when using 512K or 640K ac3 audio, we are outside of the DVD specs, so what an authoring application should do with this type of sources is questionable...

Even the most direct solution may be to properly detect and reject these streams, since them could not eventually being properly handled by all stl players, another approach may be to try to mux them in the best possible manner...

[Paulcat]

I was doing a dvd last week with MuxMan. and it gave me an error telling me I had a maximum GOP size of 40, and the resulting dvd would be out of spec. Granted, you could get MuxMan to check all the streams prior to muxing to ensure all are compliant, but where do you stop? If MuxMan assumes all streams are compliant at the outset, it should just mux the whole mess regardless of what the result is, in or out of spec. My dvd plays just fine thanks, although I don't know why I got a GOP of 40, I was using TMPGEnc and it was set for the correct value...

[mpucoder]

It's only a warning, and the value is fields. Yes, MuxMan could scan every asset beforehand, and be just as slow as Scenarist :)
But MuxMan does make every attempt to multiplex the files, even if they are out of spec. It will stop only when it is impossible to go on.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi mpucoder,

After using MuxMan beta 0.13g to mux the 640K AC3 audio stream, I can confirm I am now able to play them perfectly via, Pioneer DV-575A, Philips DVD711 and LG FFH-DV25

Strangely, my Sigma Xcard will not play the 640K stream after it's been "muxed", but it will play it as an .AC3 stream!


Cheers

[Paulcat]

Originally posted by mpucoder
It's only a warning, and the value is fields. Yes, MuxMan could scan every asset beforehand, and be just as slow as Scenarist :)
But MuxMan does make every attempt to multiplex the files, even if they are out of spec. It will stop only when it is impossible to go on.
That's what I assumed. After all, you should have some basic idea about your streams if you can get to the point of using MuxMan! It is odd though that the players are capable of playing out of spec material, although I wonder if the higher bitrate ac3 file sounds any better to the human ear than the in spec one...

[mpucoder]

In another part of the forum (Other MPEG 1/2 Encoders) there was a discussion about long gop's. They don't bother most players, afterall it's just 8 bytes in the bitstream saying what time it is. To a decoder that's just skipped info. And I have no idea why the restriction is there.

The high-bitrate sample I got was made from a lower bitrate, so it cannot possibly sound any better. But considering that I can tell the difference between 384K AC3 and its original PCM, it is likely that I could hear a difference. The principal difference is the definition. It's similar to listening to something on JVC and then on Bose. (or MTX and then anything else, even Peavey)

[Paulcat]

The only thing that sounds good on a JVC is a steamroller, and even then only briefly..