Oversized output, with The Patriot

[ernstblaauw]

I backuped the Patriot. First I used the OPV mode of CCE. It ended ut too large (It was 4,50 GB). Because OPV is difficult to predict, I highered the part of the video that is analyzed for OPV to 15 eprcent. Now the DVD was a little bit smaller (4,40GB), but still too lartge for a DVD+R,
So I decided to do a 6 pass CCE. Butstill, also this backup was too large. Nero told me it was 4488MB, instead of the allowed 4483. Is this a bug?
I hope this can be solved.

Here's the log of the latest backup:

[01:49:38] One Click encoding activated...
-----------------
[01:49:39] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- CCE SP 2.70.2.0 encoder selected.
- "Half-D1/Half Space for Extras" mode is enabled.
- VTS_01: 145.401 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 14.995 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_02: 2.720.559 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 237.175 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_03: 142.234 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 14.675 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_04: 30.519 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.965 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_06: 39.325 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 3.890 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_08: 39.057 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 3.855 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_09: 29.849 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.960 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_10: 44.727 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 4.415 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_11: 26.825 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.660 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 49,0%
- Overall Bitrate : 1.837Kbs
- Space for Video : 2.579.482KB
- Movie improvement from extra reduction = 10,5%
- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 2.908/225/1.837 Kbs
[01:52:33] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 3 minutes.
[01:52:33] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 16
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 17
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 18
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 19
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 20
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 21
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 22
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 23
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 24
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 25
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 26
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 27
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 28
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 29
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 30
- Creating M2V for VTS_03 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_03 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_08 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_08 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_09 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_09 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_10 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_10 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_11 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_11 segment 1
[10:39:39] Phase II ENCODING completed in 527 minutes.
[10:39:39] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_02
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Rebuilding segment 2 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 3
- Rebuilding segment 3 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 4
- Rebuilding segment 4 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 5
- Rebuilding segment 5 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 6
- Rebuilding segment 6 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 7
- Rebuilding segment 7 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 8
- Rebuilding segment 8 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 9
- Rebuilding segment 9 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 10
- Rebuilding segment 10 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 11
- Rebuilding segment 11 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 12
- Rebuilding segment 12 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 13
- Rebuilding segment 13 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 14
- Rebuilding segment 14 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 15
- Rebuilding segment 15 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 16
- Rebuilding segment 16 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 17
- Rebuilding segment 17 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 18
- Rebuilding segment 18 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 19
- Rebuilding segment 19 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 20
- Rebuilding segment 20 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 21
- Rebuilding segment 21 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 22
- Rebuilding segment 22 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 23
- Rebuilding segment 23 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 24
- Rebuilding segment 24 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 25
- Rebuilding segment 25 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 26
- Rebuilding segment 26 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 27
- Rebuilding segment 27 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 28
- Rebuilding segment 28 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 29
- Rebuilding segment 29 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 30
- Rebuilding segment 30 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 31
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_02_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_03
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_03_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_04
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_04_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_06
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_06_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_08
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_08_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_09
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_09_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_10
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_10_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_11
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_11_0.IFO
Correcting VTS Sectors...
[10:52:44] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 13 minutes.

Done.
[10:52:44] PREPARE/ENCODE/REBUILD completed in 543 min.

[wmansir]

- Overall Bitrate : 1.837Kbs
- Space for Video : 2.579.482KB

That's very low. You may want to look at stripping out some stuff (extras/languages) to bring it up. There are probably several segments with bitrate targets too low for CCE to hit, so it's oversizing them.

[Rockas]

Haven't you selected to remove any Audio streams?
if you didn't... do... and make it with 3 passes.

[ernstblaauw]

Originally posted by Rockas
Haven't you selected to remove any Audio streams?
if you didn't... do... and make it with 3 passes.
Ok, thanks, I will do that! I will report back here.

[ernstblaauw]

I only selected 6ch English audio. CCE 3 pass. Still oversized output (now 7 MB).
Maybe a setting I have is wrong? Or what else could be wrong?

Log:

[12:17:33] One Click encoding activated...
-----------------
[12:17:34] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- CCE SP 2.70.2.0 encoder selected.
- "Half-D1/Half Space for Extras" mode is enabled.
- VTS_01: 145.401 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 14.995 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_02: 2.720.559 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 237.175 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_03: 142.234 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 14.675 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_04: 30.519 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.965 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_06: 39.325 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 3.890 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_08: 39.057 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 3.855 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_09: 29.849 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.960 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_10: 44.727 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 4.415 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_11: 26.825 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 2.660 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 53,6%
- Overall Bitrate : 2.010Kbs
- Space for Video : 2.822.302KB
- Movie improvement from extra reduction = 10,5%
- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 3.182/246/2.010 Kbs
[12:20:03] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 3 minutes.
[12:20:03] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 16
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 17
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 18
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 19
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 20
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 21
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 22
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 23
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 24
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 25
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 26
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 27
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 28
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 29
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 30
- Creating M2V for VTS_03 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_03 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_04 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_06 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_08 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_08 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_09 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_09 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_10 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_10 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_11 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_11 segment 1
[17:29:41] Phase II ENCODING completed in 309 minutes.
[17:29:41] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_02
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Rebuilding segment 2 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 3
- Rebuilding segment 3 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 4
- Rebuilding segment 4 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 5
- Rebuilding segment 5 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 6
- Rebuilding segment 6 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 7
- Rebuilding segment 7 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 8
- Rebuilding segment 8 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 9
- Rebuilding segment 9 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 10
- Rebuilding segment 10 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 11
- Rebuilding segment 11 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 12
- Rebuilding segment 12 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 13
- Rebuilding segment 13 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 14
- Rebuilding segment 14 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 15
- Rebuilding segment 15 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 16
- Rebuilding segment 16 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 17
- Rebuilding segment 17 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 18
- Rebuilding segment 18 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 19
- Rebuilding segment 19 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 20
- Rebuilding segment 20 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 21
- Rebuilding segment 21 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 22
- Rebuilding segment 22 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 23
- Rebuilding segment 23 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 24
- Rebuilding segment 24 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 25
- Rebuilding segment 25 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 26
- Rebuilding segment 26 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 27
- Rebuilding segment 27 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 28
- Rebuilding segment 28 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 29
- Rebuilding segment 29 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 30
- Rebuilding segment 30 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 31
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_02_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_03
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_03_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_04
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_04_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_06
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_06_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_08
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_08_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_09
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_09_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_10
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_10_0.IFO
- Processing VTS_11
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_11_0.IFO
Correcting VTS Sectors...
[17:40:31] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 11 minutes.

Done.
[17:40:31] PREPARE/ENCODE/REBUILD completed in 323 min.

[Rockas]

Can you post your Rebuilder.INI File?

[ernstblaauw]

My rebuilder.ini:

[Paths]
Source=G:\THE_PATRIOT_MEL_GIBSON\VIDEO_TS\
Working=g:\DVD REBUILDER\TEMP\
Output=F:\THE PATRIOT\
CCENEW=C:\Program Files\Custom Technology\CCE SP Trial Version 2.70.02.00\cctspt.exe
MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll
[Options]
HalfExtras=1
AdditionalOutput=1
CCE=3
OneClick=1
ReduceOpt=0
ConvertToYUY2=1
AudioDub=0
Mode=1
DynamicBitrate=1
Completed=13
Skin=Rockas Original
EncoderMinimized=1
NoWarn=1
HalfD1=0000000000
Convert_16_9=0000000000
DisableInterlace=0000000000
Q_sample_percentage=15
HC_Quality=1
[CCEOptions]
VBR_bias=20
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=3
OPV=0
[Setup]
sLanguage11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
Language11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
[Audio]
Selected=1100111010101010

[Rockas]

MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll

have you tried to replace the "MPEG2Dec3dg.dll" with the "DGDecode.dll"?

[ernstblaauw]

Originally posted by Rockas
have you tried to replace the "MPEG2Dec3dg.dll" with the "DGDecode.dll"?
No, I have not. I will do that asap, but, as you understand, a 3 pass CCE will take some time.

edit:
Is it also helpfull to select 'MPEG2Source("source",idct=7)'? And if I enable this setting, does it matter if I have 'MPEG2Dec3dg.dll' or 'DGDecode.dll'?

edit2:
Is it usefull to lower vbr_bias? Or does that effect only if I do OPV? Currently, it is set at 20 (and DVD-RB is running). Next time, shall I lower that value?

[ernstblaauw]

This time, I used DGDecode as decoder, and I enabled 'MPEG2SOURCE("source", idct=7)'. But again, the output is oversized by 7 MB (it is 4490MB, but Nero wants only to burn 4483MB). Shall I lower the VBR_Bias? Or is it possible for me to lower the goal size of a DVD, so that The Patriot will fit on 1 dvd?

edit:
I found the Hidden Setting 'CCETargetSectors'. I lowered the value with 1 per cent. I hope it's ok now.

[ernstblaauw]

I lowered that value with 1 per cent, and it is ok now. The movie is 4473 MB.

[drcl]

doesnt nero allow overburning on DVD video disks? I've never had reason to try it but i think even all CD-Rs will overburn by 7mb on an ISO9960 so why not a DVD? I did a search but i couldn't find anything on this.

[ernstblaauw]

Originally posted by drcl
doesnt nero allow overburning on DVD video disks? I've never had reason to try it but i think even all CD-Rs will overburn by 7mb on an ISO9960 so why not a DVD? I did a search but i couldn't find anything on this.
I have a BenQ DW1620. If I try to overburn, Nero warns me that the disc is too small. If I continue, Nero tells me the burn failed. However, the disc is readable. But because Nero gives an error, I do not trust overburning, even not with a small amount

[wmansir]

Everything I have read says you cannot overburn DVDs.

[Boulder]

I think it means a shorter lead-in/out and the tiny amount of space saved is then used for the data.

[rayvt]

When I occasionally get a slightly oversized output, I just run it thru dvdshrink and select "no compression" for the main movie. It will then shrink the menus & extras by a few percent but keep the main movie the way dbd-rb output it.

This goes really fast, and doesn't require tweaking with RB parameters or wasting another few hours re-encoding the movie again.

[jdobbs]

I bet you thought I'd forgotten about this one, didn't you?

Here's what I found... This film has a fourth audio track (0x83) included that isn't referenced in the IFOs. It is a directors comment track and it appears to be exactly the same as one of the referenced tracks (0x82). Since it wasn't selected for removal it was pulled over into the output VOBs -- but wasn't accounted for in terms of size.

I've changed the method in the next version from an "exclusion" list to an "inclusion" list so any unreferenced audio is kicked to the curb.