Disc-labels

[ukb008]

Hi.

There are three ways a Blank can be labelled:

1. Write on it. Question: Write with what based pens? Water/Alcohol/Something else?

2. Paste a label on it. Comments: Don't try it. It's ghastly. One year down the line your disc will not be read.

3. Print a label on it. Question: Some printers offer this; I haven't tried. [a] Do they use the same ink? [b] What's the long-term (say, 5- or 10-years) report? [c] How do the big companies who press DVDs (rather than burn them as we individuals do) do it?

Regards.

[Video Dude]

1) Most use a Sharpie. But they do sell "safe" markers that are labeled for CD use. If you want to be really safe, only write on the hub.

2) Stick-on labels = :devil:

3-a) Ink jets use the same ink. There are also special thermal printers. You have to buy special printable discs.

3-b) Have to wait to see. You should worry more about the recordable disc lasting 5-10 years, not the printed label. Some cheaper discs go bad after only a month. The ink jets will smudge if they get wet.

3-c) Silk Screen, offset-printing, or Laser.

Edit: Laser does not mean a laser printer, but an actual laser.

[ukb008]

What you say about one should worry more about the recordable disc lasting 5-10 years, not the printed label, is ominous. I suppose it depends on the brand. While there may not be an absolutely right answer as to which manufacturer makes the best DVD blanks, what's your opinion on this matter?

1. I mean, which blank would you prefer? Imation? Kodak? Verbatim? What?

2. And when the disc goes bad for reasons other than just plain mishandling, what do you think causes it? Degradation of plastic over time?

3. Do you suppose comercial media (e.g., commercial DVD releases) last longer than the home-burnt discs? If so, is a reason (other than possibly superior plastics from reputed vendors) pressing of data (in complex machines) as opposed to burning at home?

Regards.

[unmei]

Light (sunlight..) and humidity damage the dye layer "inside" the plastic, which holds the data of the writable disc. The combination is "deadly".

As for pens to write on, Sony included an "Edding 8400 special CD Marker" with one of their recorders, this pen is probably also available without the device. Apart from that i use some overhead projector foil pens (centropen OHP - permanent) - i don't know if all such foil pens will do, but with such unly using OHP as solvent you are probably safe.

3) Yes, pressed (commercial) discs do use a different "writing" technique that is not based on organic dye and as this dye is the weak point of the -R/-RW discs and the pressed lack that, they lack the weakest part. I am unsure what chemical pressed discs use for data layer, but it could be pure metal based and it is for sure not changing reflective properties as easily by light (sunlight, laser) exposure as writables do.

[pieroxy]

If you need to read more, here is a resourceful page with a bunch of links:

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-5

Remember that disk lifetime heavily depends on storage conditions. My Audio CDs stored in my car (in California, sun all the time) lasted as few as a few month. Some others lasted years. Hence a big difference in longevity across brands.

Also remember that in 10 years, CD will be considered as a pitifully small media, and it will be time to re-backup all that stuff onto "Blue Ray DVD Gen2" that can hold 1TB of data.

I would recommend to always backup important stuff more than once. All my digital pics and my mp3s are backed up twice onto DVDs. One at home, one at my parents home. Of course, thay also live on my HDD.

Also always remember to TEST YOUR BACKUPS, preferably onto several players. It is not rare that a glitch in the burning process will render your CD or DVD containing errors. I have seen it quite a few times.

As a reference, when I care for longevity of what I burn, I burn my DVDs at 1X.

[pieroxy]

I forgot: A pressed CD has NOTHING TO DO with a CDR, and the same goes for DVDs. Their longevity is *much* longer. Because CD-R/DVD-R was meant to be written, it can obviously be erased by the same process. This process is light. And because it contains chemicals that can be altered by light, these chemicals do age, with heat and humidity.

A pressed CD does not contain easily alterable chemicals. The reflective layer can be oxydized by oxygen, and even a tiny scratch on the label side (remember, this is the site to care for) can induce an oxygen entrance onto the layer and effectively kill your CD in no time. This is true for both CD-R and CD, but not for DVDs, since the layers and dye in a DVD is inside the disk (between two plastic layers), as opposed to "on top of the disk" for a CD.

[Video Dude]

Will there even be DVD or CD players in 10 years?

A commercial pressed disc should last more than 100 years. As was mentioned previously, recordables use organic dye. There was a study where they put recordables in a dark drawer and left them for 2 years. When they tried them, they did not work. Scary.

Don't buy discs by brand, but by media code. For example, TDK discs are sometime RICOH while others are CMC. Good media codes include MCC and TY.

[ukb008]

Indeed, Blu-Ray is almost upon us. Someone once wrote in these fora that he already had to back-up a lifetime collection of movies once into VCDs from VHS. Then along came DVDs (just ignoring the LaserDisc which failed to create that big a furore) and he had to build up another lifetime's worth of collection all over again in the same lifetime. Now Blue-Ray is looming just ahead. What will we do with Blue-Ray Gen2 that holds 1 TerraByte of data? To match quality of the celluloid, how big a file shall we need? And then how many films do we need in ane disc? Think about the archiving problems with alphabetical storage.

And, presumably, the cost will plummet. We will have a few hundred blockbusters in exquisite picture quality in a single Blue-Ray Gen3. Will they spend millions of dollars to make movies then?

Yeah, okay, life-span is limited. I'll probably be extinct myself before my one-film DVD discs shelved nicely with their DivX backups in double-disc DVD jackets alphabetically become back-dated.

Incidentally, Im not afraid to ask: what are MCC, CMC and TY?

Regards.

[Video Dude]

Originally posted by ukb008
Incidentally, Im not afraid to ask: what are MCC, CMC and TY?

MCC = Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
CMC = CMC Magnetics
TY = Taiyo Yuden

These are the chemical factories that make the recordable dye. Companies like TDK, Fuji, Memorex, etc, then purchase these discs and stick their logo and packaging on them.

It takes a trained eye to determine the media code before you buy the discs at the store. It also can be determined on the packaging by a code number or the location where the discs were made. (There is a database at http://www.videohelp.com ). They don't print the media code on the packaging. Most of all it takes luck. Once you get the discs home you can easliy check the media codes with some software.

[ukb008]

Here's a part of what you have written, Video Dude:

It takes a trained eye to determine the media code before you buy the discs at the store. It also can be determined on the packaging by a code number or the location where the discs were made.

Exactly where do I look and what kind of thing do I expect to find?

You also wrote:

They don't print the media code on the packaging.

This slightly confused me. Where do I look? And then:

Most of all it takes luck.

Boy, that's scary.

Once you get the discs home you can easliy check the media codes with some software.

Although it won't matter after you have made your purchase and have taken the disc out of its packaging, because you're stuck with what you've got, what software is that?

Thanks and regards.

[Video Dude]

I'll take TDK +R for example. The store in my area sells spindles. I hold the spindle up towards the ceiling to the light. If I see that the top disc looks like it is textured, I am confident these are media code RICOH JPN. But if the disc is smooth and shiny they are most likely CMC, which I avoid. I have read on other boards that other ways to determine the media code are spindle base color, measure the width of the hub border, etc. It's quite comical really. The next time you are in the store and see a person holding a spindle over their head or pulling out a ruler, you now know what they are doing.

Now each brand has these little tiny differences and they are all different. As I said it takes a trained eye, not something you can learn easily from a message board. You need real world experience. ;)


An easier way is to look at the product code or UPC code. Sometimes but not always this will give a clue to the media code. If you buy media over the internet this is the method to use. A code database can be found at http://www.videohelp.com


Actually the software can matter. You can buy one package of media and determine the media code. If it is good, then you can buy more packages from the same store and be confident what you are getting.