What is your AntiVirus and Firewall choice?

[DSP8000]

Hi,

I was just curious what you guys use as in software and hardware security solutions.

Here are the categories:

-Software Freeware
-Software Payware(crap)
-Software Payware(most secure, money no object)
-Hardware
-AntiVirus Only
-Firewall Only
-Security Suite

I use soft/hardware solution.

DSP8000

[Inventive Software]

Do we have to give names of the software as well?

On my computer personally, I don't have anti-virus or a firewall because I'm not connected to the internet, and the computers that I download stuff off anyway have anti-virus and hardware firewall.

My parents' computer has paid software for both AV and FW. No prizes for guessing the manufacturer of both. :D

My ideal solution would be a free software anti-virus and a hardware firewall running Linux. The free anti-virus? AVG of course!

[reepa]

I use free software solutions for both. The firewall is Tiny Personal, which Tiny Software used to give away for free. It's been working fine, although it often crashes when you install network drivers or software (for example Microsoft's Services for UNIX). It's got a nice rule configuration instead of vague options like 'safe', 'less safe', or 'more safe'. The antivirus software suite is Anti-Vir Personal (the only free anti-virus suite?) which I started using after Norton Antivirus changed so that it cannot be used simultaneously on two computers (it's still on the other computer). I'm happy with AVPersonal, although I have to update it by manually clicking Start Internet update (it's got some kind of a scheduler software which I haven't made myself familiar with). Also, my FreeBSD laptop has no firewall or antivirus software (should it have?).

[tigerman8u]

I use AVG free and Zone Alarm free. Both have well worked good for me in the past. I did use Norton a couple years ago but it seemed to use more system resources.

[DigitAl56K]

Didn't Tiny become Kerio?

I use Kerio Personal Firewall and Kaspersky Anti-virus Personal Pro 5. I'd recommend both.

I did use AVG for some time and it was good, but IMO the scan engine in KAV is better. AVG used to win over KAV in terms of user interface, but KAV 5 changes all that...

[dragongodz]

antivirus - Avast home edition(free)
firewall - hardware.

[AnimalMother]

firewall - hardware
anti virus - system restore

[stephanV]

McAfee for anti-virus + sygate personal firewall

[Brother John]

I agree with you, reepa. A useful desktop firewall needs to be rule based. A set of some rather generic profiles is not really what firewalls are about, is it?
For a long time I was perfectly happy with AtGuard, but after installing XP’s SP2 it didn’t work anymore. R.I.P. Now I use Kerio 4 (only the free features). Occupies more RAM than AtGuard but provides much more flexible filtering.

Viruses? Had the last one of these 10 years ago on an old pre-internet 386 machine. So for me antivirus software is perfectly useless. Though I scan about once every year with AVPersonal.

[gircobain]

Kerio Winroute Firewall 6 and McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8

[Sirber]

firewall: dedicated linux running iptables with grsec-enabled kernel
a-v: no need, use Firefox instead of IE, and use a webmail, not outlook :D

[DigitAl56K]

From personal experience I would recommend against McAfee and also Norton 2004.

[IgorC]

Kaspersky Internet Security 2006 + Win XP SP2

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Axed
Firewall: Hardware routerThose always have a small NAT table and crash when you use P2P softwares. Better use an good old linux running on your unused P2 :D

[DSP8000]

firewall: dedicated linux running iptables with grsec-enabled kernel

I like that:D


Anti-Virus: You dont really need an A-V program, it only depends on how you use your computer and the internet.

I partially agree;)

Anyone knows some websites that have up to date AV & firewalls reviews?


DSP8000

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Axed
Anti-Virus: You dont really need an A-V program, it only depends on how you use your computer and the internet.

BS.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Not using Outlook Express is one good way of reducing the likelihood of getting a virus. And if you use hotmail (or msn) for your e-mailing, they are automatically scanned for viruses!

I'm using the Firewall software that comes with WinXP Pro... is this so bad?


Cheers

[GrEEk_OuTcAsT]

Firewall: SP2's one

AV: BitDefender Free edition

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Axed
Been wanted to do this since i got axed from my job :/ Any recommendations on a distro, and a guide?I'm using gentoo linux. Here's the guide (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml). Here's the flag list (http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/use-index.xml) and gcc optimization list (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.3/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-Options.html#i386-and-x86_002d64-Options). I suggest you print all that if you can't access them online :D. You can contact me by email or msn/icq if you need help.Originally posted by Axed
Anti-Virus: You dont really need an A-V program, it only depends on how you use your computer and the internet. True. Never got a virus in years. Best protection is yourself. A/V and firewall on your WS slow it down.

[GitsLM]

i am using antivir pers. edition and outpost. i was using zonealarm before but switch to outpost because of better posibilities in setting the thing up ;)

[Si]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
BS.
I don't use any AV either - it does depend on what you do and where you surf.

Once in a blue moon I use the online House Trend scan but its never found anything.

I started using AVG on the family computer at Xmas because my daughter ended up visiting somewhere or downloading something but I use nothing on this one.

Been using computers for 28 years.

Its not BS :)

regards
Simon

[Sirber]

:goodpost:

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't run any anti-virus software either...

I tried McAfee on a 3 month free trial basis back in the days when all I had was a 56K dial-up connection. Every-time I turned my PC on and went on-line, the PC spent that much time downloading anti-virus updates there was no bandwidth left to do any surfing :(

Just exercise caution is my advice... And running a minimum of 2No boots helps!


Cheers

[Nematocyst]

I used to use Norton Anti-Virus, but I really didn't care for all the non-AV related stuff they put on also. In addition, it caused problems with my computer which took some effort to track down.

I agree that there is little need for AV software if you are careful, but I've been using AVG Free (http://www.grisoft.com) for a year or more now, and have had no trouble with it and observed no slowdowns other than during a scan. Still, good AV software is no replacement for common sense. The only virus I've ever gotten was once when I downloaded a file to verify my own suspicions that it contained a virus. heh.

For firewall, I combine a router with Zone Alarm Pro (http://www.zonelabs.com) and have never had any problems aside from proper configuration. On another machine, I am content with just XP's SP2 firewall.

[spuddog]

norton internet security. also spybot and ad-aware. i agree that if you are careful you can avoid most virus's (virii) but the ones you don't find are the ones that wil bite you

[gircobain]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
From personal experience I would recommend against McAfee and also Norton 2004.
I don't like Norton either (too bloated)
Have been running McAfee with no problems
Anything in particular on why you would recommend against it?

[Sirber]

Protection vs Performances

Simple choice ;)

[Doobie]

Anyone who is anyone uses one of these firewalls:

Armor2net, Bullguard Suite, 8Signs, Firewall X-treme, Freedom Personal Firewall, HackerSmacker, InJoy, Norman Personal Firewall, Omniguad, pcInternet Patrol, Primedius, Securepoint Personal Firewall, SecureUp Personal Firewall, SoftPerfect Personal Firewall, Surf Secret Personal Firewall, TGB::BOB!, VisNetic Firewall, Webroot My Firewall Plus

Of course, all the old firewalls are not on this list, like Ambra, Conceal, etc.

There are a number of obscure firewalls, like Zone Alarm and Norton Personal Firewall. But, no one uses them.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Doobie
Anyone who is anyone uses one of these firewalls:

Armor2net, Bullguard Suite, 8Signs, Firewall X-treme, Freedom Personal Firewall, HackerSmacker, InJoy, Norman Personal Firewall, Omniguad, pcInternet Patrol, Primedius, Securepoint Personal Firewall, SecureUp Personal Firewall, SoftPerfect Personal Firewall, Surf Secret Personal Firewall, TGB::BOB!, VisNetic Firewall, Webroot My Firewall Plus

Of course, all the old firewalls are not on this list, like Ambra, Conceal, etc.Those are totally obscure :sly:
Originally posted by Doobie
There are a number of obscure firewalls, like Zone Alarm and Norton Personal Firewall. But, no one uses them. Zone Alarm is one of the best firewall for windows. Most people uses it.

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Sirber
Never got a virus in years. Best protection is yourself. A/V and firewall on your WS slow it down.

And you know this even though you don't have any A/V software because.... ?

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by gircobain
I don't like Norton either (too bloated)
Have been running McAfee with no problems
Anything in particular on why you would recommend against it?

I've seen computers equipped with McAfee (even updated versions) fall victim to viruses far too many times in the past, despite having the resident scanner active. On one occasion I actually trusted the McAfee A/V on one PC and brought home a nice little virus on a zip disk to my home PC which didn't have any A/V running at the time. On another occasion my mothers laptop fell victim to a worm, even though I had updated the definitions 2 days earlier. Not fun :)

A/V's are also somewhat subject to the way they are configured, updated, and administered though.

One thing I like about Kaspersky is that it updates every 3 hours by default, and more than that, Kaspersky do actually push updates almost as frequently. Without a good service backing your A/V package you're at risk from new viruses even if the A/V itself is pretty good. Any A/V can catch a virus that has been in the wild for a week. Can they all catch one that is spreading fast only a few hours hours after it was released?

I'll also put a word in for Sophos as the pricey option. I used this once several years ago and was pretty impressed. It's an extremely fast scanner targetted more at the corporate market, but I believe from what I read that it's also very effective. You will probably have noticed their communications manager, Graham Cluley quoted quite often in the online press. He does go over the top marketing the impending doom from the latest viruses on occasion, but I know back in the day he would also participate in popular anti-virus news groups, so kudos to him for that...

[Sirber]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
And you know this even though you don't have any A/V software because.... ? I had norton for some years. Beside reducing my HDD speed, made no good.

[dragongodz]

i have to agreee with DigitAl56K and his "B.S." statement. :)

my wife has got virii in spam emails etc and i can tell you she hardly ever surfs the net and even those times its to 3 well trusted sites only.
while i rarely get virii even though i do the most browsing.

so why you ask ? most likly answer is from freinds email addresses being compramised or such. to think you are safe because you "surf safe" is wishful thinking. :D

Been using computers for 28 years.
why is it when people say this i get annoyed ? hmm maybe because it proves nothing and yet is supposed to say "i know what i am talking about.". ;)

I'm using gentoo linux.
Sirber - that isnt a nice suggestion for someone just wanting to make the leap to Linux. they would be better off dipping their tow with Mandrake or SUSE or even maybe Fedora first no ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by dragongodz
i have to agreee with DigitAl56K and his "B.S." statement. :)

my wife has got virii in spam emails etc and i can tell you she hardly ever surfs the net and even those times its to 3 well trusted sites only.
while i rarely get virii even though i do the most browsing.

so why you ask ? most likly answer is from freinds email addresses being compramised or such.... Please confirm...

Does she use Outlook Express for receiving/sending e-mails... I think so!


Cheers

[Sirber]

Originally posted by dragongodz
Sirber - that isnt a nice suggestion for someone just wanting to make the leap to Linux. they would be better off dipping their tow with Mandrake or SUSE or even maybe Fedora first no ? There are 2 kind of linux, WS distro and Server distro. Server distro runs on older HW and have a better performance. Gentoo is very easy to install using the guide. I even offered help :)

[Slogra]

Antivirus: AVG Free
Software firewall: Mcafee Guardian (if i uninstall i lose my network connection and i really can't fix it :angry: )
Hardware firewal: in router
Spyware busters: Spybot and Adaware

[Arachnotron]

Does she use Outlook Express for receiving/sending e-mails... I think so!Many virus make use of internet explorer exploits or other problems with windows components. This means that even if you do use other mailingprograms, the mere fact that it *is* a windows program can make you vulnerable. For instance, Eudora by default uses IE parts to view HTML mails. And what about embedded jpg files? (GDI exploits).

It is virtually impossible for a mere mortal to predict how any of M$ security bulletins (or even non-published security holes) is going to affect the software they are using themselves, since you cannot know which windows components are being used by it.

The only way around using a local scanner that I see is using a separate machine with a scanning web and mailproxy to filter out the baddies before they reach your computer. But then there is MSN......

Personally, I use McAfee. I have had too many problems in the past with symantec products. The build-in firewall of XP is not bad, at least better than none at all. I mostly leave it on. For a firewall for my home network I am going to use gentoo, perhaps freeBSD (building it right now).

By the way: if your internet connection is coming in through a single ethernet point, consider using a bridging filewall instead of a classic one. Most distro's allow for it out of the box by now, and they are the most secure firewalls available. The only downside to them is that they cannot NAT or do routing, so you still need something else to set up the connection with your isp. Mind, setting one up is not beginners stuff.

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Axed
Yeah thanks for the offer Sirber, ill have a good read thru all that information. I think i have to get a new network card in the least before i do this, so thats next pay check before i start. You need 2 LAN cards, one for your ADSL/Cabme modem and one for your LAN. A good old 10mbps LAN card is sufficient for your modem.

[dragongodz]

Does she use Outlook Express for receiving/sending e-mails... I think so!
well you think wrong and missed the point. that being that virii has come from her freinds emailing her and some random ones that may have come from HER FREINDS email address list, not my wifes, being comprimised. also emails can be got from hacked ISP's. a former big ISP i was with was hacked and the only information they think the hackers got was user names, so they would be able to work out the email pretty easy no ?

so you can use whatever safe software, visit whatever safe sites you like but it still doesnt mean you will never get a virus sent to you.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Arachnotron
Many virus make use of internet explorer exploits or other problems with windows components. This means that even if you do use other mailingprograms, the mere fact that it *is* a windows program can make you vulnerable. For instance, Eudora by default uses IE parts to view HTML mails. And what about embedded jpg files? (GDI exploits). Agreed some virus can enter your PC in this method... But the bulk still like to enter your PC via e-mail and spread across the world wide using addresses stored in emailing applications like Outlook Express.

I see that some real pain-in-the-ass viruses/spy-wares are entering PC's as Internet Explorer "tool bar" add-ons!


Cheers

[TactX]

Firewall: Windows 2000 IPsec service
AV: My brain

[Sirber]

IPsec is not a firewall, more like a VPN. Maybe M$ just named their firewall badly.

[Arachnotron]

Not quite. You can use ipsec policies to "firewall" windows 2000. It is just not really well-known. Here is a nice introduction:

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~mchugha/w2kfirewall.htm

[TactX]

Originally posted by Sirber
IPsec is not a firewall, more like a VPN. Maybe M$ just named their firewall badly.
I use it as a packetfilter which filters unwanted stuff. So I call it "Firewall" for myself. I don't care what you call it.

[Sirber]

Cool! Didn't know :) BTW TactX, I didn't ment to offence you :(

[TactX]

Originally posted by Sirber
Cool! Didn't know :) BTW TactX, I didn't ment to offence you :(
Hey, I didn't feel like you wanted to offence me ;)

I just had too many discussions about "Firewalls" and almost anybody has got a different opinion on how a Firewall should work and look like.

Peace :D

[Si]

Originally posted by dragongodz
i have to agreee with DigitAl56K and his "B.S." statement.

Wher I come from "B.S" means Bullshit which means "you are lying"

My reply was made in order to confirm that I also don't run AV on my computer and confirm the OPs statement that it is not essential if you are careful.

Now, the OP could be lying (but I think not) but I know that I am not.

So agreeing with the statement just makes you look foolish.

I did state my experience on computers to show that I am not a newbie and to imply that my experience should carry some weight. I'm sorry it makes you upset.

Have a nice Easter.

regards
Simon

[DigitAl56K]

It doesn't mean that you're lying, it means what you are saying is wildly inaccurate.

Whether you are careful about downloading files, opening e-mails, using a firewall or not, you need anti-virus software.

If you download files from "trusted" sources you're putting the security of your PC in someone else's hands. Even when the hands are those of a reputable company, nothing guarantees that their practices afford you adequate protection. How many companies actually publish details of how they test their products for viruses before a release?

If you're careful about opening e-mails: What if your mail client is vulnerable and the vendor hasn't announced the vulnerability or released a patch yet? What if your mail client isn't vulnerable directly, but common components it uses are? What if you are duped by an uncommon new type of scam?

What if your OS has a vulnerability in one of it's network-enabled services and the vendor hasn't released a patch yet?

What if you pop a magazine coverdisk into your drive and it has a virus? This kind of thing happens frequently, hell: I even recall a music CD released last year that had special features for PC and was shipped to millions of people with a virus on it.

There are so many routes of attack that by being careful you only reduce your vulnerability. Even if you run A/V you are only reducing your vulnerability. But at least if you have A/V your system is less likely to suffer severe damage in the event that you do become infected, and at least with A/V the chances of you being alerted that you are infected very quickly are high, and at least with A/V there is an additional preventative measure in place other than "being careful".

Have you ever gone out with a girl and told her you don't need protection because you'll be careful? How did that go down?

I imagine that very few of us here are security proffesionals by trade, and I imagine that no security proffesional alive could possibly prepare their system in such a way that it was absolutely invincible from viruses under typical Internet use.

It annoys me no end when people tell me they don't need A/V because they are careful - I bet at least 25% of the crap that hits my firewall on a daily basis comes from those people alone...

Please don't take this as a rant at you personally, more so the "I'm careful.." concept in general.

[gircobain]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
One thing I like about Kaspersky is that it updates every 3 hours by default, and more than that, Kaspersky do actually push updates almost as frequently. Without a good service backing your A/V package you're at risk from new viruses even if the A/V itself is pretty good. Any A/V can catch a virus that has been in the wild for a week. Can they all catch one that is spreading fast only a few hours hours after it was released?
Well I do really hope their support is better than their servers
It took me a good half hour to download lousy 3mb of updates...

To those claiming antiviruses are useless, my opinion is that just running a Windows OS is a good reason to have an AV on already :rolleyes:

[Doobie]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K Whether you are careful about downloading files, opening e-mails, using a firewall or not, you need anti-virus software.

I've never gotten a virus from downloading from any reputable source. The chance of it happening is so slim as not to worry much about it.

Have you ever gone out with a girl and told her you don't need protection because you'll be careful? How did that go down?

If you only went out with reputable girls...

It annoys me no end when people tell me they don't need A/V because they are careful - I bet at least 25% of the crap that hits my firewall on a daily basis comes from those people alone...

That's probably true. Being careful means not using P2P for any sort of executable, not opening email attachments, having your computer correctly configured, etc. At least people don't trade floppies anymore.

[Shinigami-Sama]

well
I use nortan 2003 for a-v
but I'll buyu hte new one once my sub runs out
as for a fire wall...
my isp

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Shinigami-Sama
as for a fire wall...
my isp

Your ISP won't firewall you, or at least it's rather unlikely. The best you could hope for is NAT on the router/modem.

[Shinigami-Sama]

Originally posted by DigitAl56K
Your ISP won't firewall you, or at least it's rather unlikely. The best you could hope for is NAT on the router/modem.
you realy didn;t catch it eh?
I don;t use one very often. and I don;t have a router yet I'l get one once I get a nic and soem more cat5 so I can use both halves of my connect seeing as how I have 1.5mb/512kb ips :)
firewalls realy hurt my speeds and I;ve been hacked less without on so..

[cyberVera]

Anti-virus: German H+BEDV AntiVir Personal
Firewall: ZoneAlarm
Web content filter: Ad-Shield 1.2 (to cutoff adds and mostly flash)

+ 10 year web experience of what virus looks like

[dragongodz]

My reply was made in order to confirm that I also don't run AV on my computer and confirm the OPs statement that it is not essential if you are careful.
and if you reread what i said and reread DigitAl56K's post that starts "it doesnt mean you are lying" it doesnt matter how careful you are you can still get virii. so the statement that just being careful means you dont need an antivirus is not correct. "safe surfing" will not guarentee you never getting a virus.

So agreeing with the statement just makes you look foolish.
hahaha whatever.

I did state my experience on computers to show that I am not a newbie and to imply that my experience should carry some weight. I'm sorry it makes you upset.
i knew exactly why you stated it but really it doesn work. i have seen plenty of people(even on this very forum) who have been using pc's for yeeeears and they still dont know things they think they do. :D
oh and it didnt upset me, it annoys me because it has no weight at all and people should get over the whole "i have x years experience with pc's" since so do i but i dont need to say it for what i am saying to have any meaning.

I've never gotten a virus from downloading from any reputable source. The chance of it happening is so slim as not to worry much about it.
slim maybe but not impossible. for example i got a virus on a commercial game(in box, not downloaded) many years ago. the game was quickly recalled and fixed versions released but it still puts a nasty taste in ones mouth. imagine the damage that could have been done if i didnt have a virus scanner at the time.

[namchik]

Kaspersky Anti-Virus Pro and Kaspersky Anti-Hacker
Tried NIS 2k5 (very slow :( ), BitDefender, Outpost Pro...

[fewtch]

Firewall: Sygate Personal Firewall (non-pro)
Antivirus: I haven't had a virus since about 1988, so I bother very little with this (maybe it's because I use an old version of Eudora for Email rather than Outlook crap). Occasional scan at http://housecall.trendmicro.com and never found a virus there either. However, I use several anti-spyware proggies.

To those arguing you neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed antivirus software... my track record speaks for itself. Last virus I got was from a pirated MS-DOS game on floppy disk, in 1988 or '89, on an 80286 12MHz PC (my first x86 machine). If that doesn't convince you... whatever, preach away.

P.S. the version of Eudora I use is v3.0.5 (very limited HTML support, but I always sign up for text-only Email anyway as HTML in Email is pretty useless). Oldversion.com has 3.0.3 and 3.0.6, if anyone's interested. With v3.0.5 you can receive HTML links and formatted text, but all attachments including graphics are saved in the folder you specify and displayed at the bottom of the message as links, NEVER run. As far as I can tell, it does not use MS's HTML engine at all. Very nice, stable program with thankfully limited features purely oriented toward sending/receiving Email. I tried a newer version of Eudora recently, and it's amazing how little functionality they've added since v3.x. Most of it is added flashiness.

[Arachnotron]

There is another important layer of protection: don't surf while you are full administrator on your machine. Use an account with only limited userrights. Many browser hijacks and virus installations fail if the user does not have administrative rights, or at least the damage is limited. *nix users have this rammed into their heads in every book (never start working as root!!) but for Windows home users it is still a new one. It doesn't help that the installation routine still creates a user with full admin rights by default.

Even if for some reason you have to work as admin, you can still use the "runas" functionality of XP to run at least your browser and your mailprogam under a user account with limited privileges. this article (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dncode/html/secure11152004.asp?frame=true) discusses a small toool for doing this.

[wmansir]

Right now I'm trying out various combos. I tried KAV, but it's residential scanner seemed to affect performance too much. I like AVG, but I'm trying Avast! right now to see how it compares.

I agree that playing it safe online is much better protection than any software, but I don't always play safe. This forum itself is full of programs that people write and host themselves. It's very possible that something could slip thru that way. And I'm not even talking about a malicious author, just someone who's system got compromised.

For a firewall I'm using M0n0wall, which is based on freeBSD. It boots off a CD with a floppy config (it has other boot options too). I would prefer to run IPcop, but the HD in my old system died so I had to switch. Not that there is anything wrong with Monowall in particular, just a preference. It has been acting up a bit (freezing every few weeks), but I'm not sure if that's a HW error or because of the beta version I am using. The cool part about it is I can upgrade/downgrade versions by just burning a CD and rebooting the system.

I would highly recommend this type of distro over a traditional *nix distro for beginners. They are specifically designed for security, stability, performance on low end hardware, and ease of use for novice *nix admins. Once installed they can be configured and updated via a web browser, just like a traditional HW router.

I'm also trying out Keiro for outbound protection.

[napalm]

I use no antivirus software.
I use no extra software firewalls (only the USR router's).

I believe the best protection is to be attentive to what you bring in to the hard disk, but this requires that you are the only one in charge of the computer and internet access, and keeping your knowledge up to date on any new mega security holes and how to fix them (anyone remember MSBlast?, that was the bomb). I don't recall having a virus issue in 5 or so years, however non personal use pc's ought to be much more difficult to keep virus/trojan/worm free.

[Teegedeck]

Having anti-virus software and a firewall indeed doesn't mean you can rest assured, as long as you're still using Windows in the first place... Whenever I visit my sister- and brother-in-law, I find a new piece of spyware to remove (they use Kasperksy and Windows' in-built firewall). Surfing the web with Internet Explorer is absolutely sufficient for catching something. Alas, few people opt to activate the automatic Windows updates, it seems.

Anyway, I use (on the windows machine) Kaspersky and Kerio. A hardware firewall is an even better idea than a software one, but not sufficient. My main PC runs Linux.

You absolutely need all these antivirus and antispy and what-not-tools if you're using Windows, or how can you tell you're PC isn't already infested with the most ugly but stealthy diseases?

[Si]

There's many things that I could quote to show an un-openess to alternative ideas and ways of using their computers, in some peoples (or their auto-answering AI programs :D ) posts but

hahaha whatever.

sums up the waste of time that would be.

Some of us don't use AV on some of our computers we use/work with/maintain.

Now, when the day comes that we catch one then we'll have to come back here and say how silly we were and we should have listened.

Until that happens, please respect our very very old ages (well mine anyway) and our superior internet skills and marvel at how we do it. :p

Hope you had a nice Easter :)

regards

Simon

[dragongodz]

To those arguing you neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed antivirus software... my track record speaks for itself.
fewtch - well thats good for you but only proves anything for you. some of us think its better to err on the side of caution and safety.

whatever, preach away.
hmm and that couldnt be said of you right ? i mean you are saying since YOU havent got a virus people dont dont need a virus scanner, what would you call that ? :)

to show an un-openess to alternative ideas and ways of using their computers, in some peoples (or their auto-answering AI programs ) posts but
sums up the waste of time that would be.
Si - i laughed off your insult
So agreeing with the statement just makes you look foolish.
and you try to insult me again ? hmmm says more about you than me mate.

Until that happens, please respect our very very old ages (well mine anyway) and our superior internet skills and marvel at how we do it.
you get respect when you learn how to show it. being old doesnt mean you know everything, and i am no teenager myself. :sly:

[DigitAl56K]

We're not here to trade insults :)

Si: I will chime in with one final comment though - I hope you don't build software for public release on such a system.

[Si]

We're not here to trade insults :-) :-) :-)

I believe you swung the first blow :)

Cause and effect.

You caused me to come to support Axed after you said what he said was bullshit. (although I freely acknowlege that I have free will and that you couldn't "cause" me to do anything so I should apologise to you really :) )

I thought it wasn't because I do it as well so I thought I'd let you know. Some others in this thread also don't do it.

I was expecting something like "yeah - I don't mean BS - I mean its not a good thing to do in my opinion" - I wasn't expecting someone to actually agree with you.:D

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and I'd like to leave you and dragongodz to yours.

I don't do commercial programs any more and I'm glad that those who do proected themselves and us - thank you :)

Have a good one.

regards
Simon

This has been a bit of light entertainment for me over the Easter break and I've no wish to fall out with anyone over this issue - I'll avoid this sub-forum in future and get back to my normal habitat :D

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by Si
This has been a bit of light entertainment for me over the Easter break and I've no wish to fall out with anyone over this issue - I'll avoid this sub-forum in future and get back to my normal habitat :D

Indeed! Happy Easter ;)

Were any "Easter" viruses released this year? I remember there was once a time when every major holiday would have the AV PR departments on overdrive...

[Brother John]

I heard nothing about any Easter viruses this year. Maybe they didn't manage to break their egg shells for once. :D

What I think this thread shows so far is: Everyone has a solution that he thinks works best for him. And probably it does because we're all not computer newbies. We have developed the ability to spot a malicious link or mail attachment at first glance. Well, at least most of them. We don't use IE and know how to configure a firewall properly. We keep our OS up to date and many use a virus scanner at least from time to time. All that protects us from most malware, but 100% safety isn't possible anyway. We only need to fight the tendency to become careless because »why bother, I'm quite safe anyway«.

Unfortunately, to gain a feeling for what to click on and what to delete immediately and for using protective software a certain level of understanding is necessary of how computers and the web work. So, what to do with Joe Clueless, who will never reach that level simply because he doesn't care? As long as surfing, emailing and listening to MP3s continues to work somehow, he won't even complain about viruses on his machine.
I couldn't tell him to install a firewall because he could never configure it properly. Even keeping antivirus software up to date is not so easy because he often aborts the auto-update because »surfing is so slow when this thing is running«. Let's not even mention things like Windows update. This practically leaves one solution: Babysitting such a machine myself. But no way. I'd need a psychiatrist after two weeks.

[zilog jones]

OK, I seem a bit late coming into this but I use:
- AVG Free for virii
- ZoneAlarm for firewall

I rarely get virii unless I bring them upon myself with dodgy downloads and whatnot. I use Gmail and my uni's e-mail, which I never get any spam or virii through. The same could not be said for back in the day when I used Hotmail (before they did anything about spam), but it was pretty easy to tackle virus e-mail then - just don't open any dodgy executable attatchments!

And here's a word of warning to anyone not using a firewall or anti-virus: Once my brother went online without turning on the firewall some time last year - within 3-5 minutes he got the Sasser virus from just web browsing! And this was with Opera, not IE!

[DigitAl56K]

Spelling police: "Virii" isn't a word, it's "viruses".

Actually lots of people seem to think "virii" is the plural of "virus" for some reason. I'm not sure why..

[stephanV]

Virus obviously seems to have a Latin origin and in Latin nouns that end with -us get -i when plural (modus -> modi). I don't see where the extra 'i' comes from (it should be virus -> viri) and of course there is no real reason why English should follow Latin grammar. :)

[communist]

Originally posted by Brother John
- snip -
That sums it up nicely.. whenever I fix a friends computer a quick look at IE (any 'toolbars'?), taskmanager (GMT.exe or uiqbcx.exe etc.?) and the Start Menu (any 'Free XYZ...' links?) reveals how messed up the machine is.

And while you clear up the mess and tell them to not use app X and keep Y running they just nod and nod.. ;)

[niamh]

Actually it seems there's no clean cut answer as to the virus plural , except for the fact that it's definitely not virii (which would come from virius), nor viri (which means men).
Apparently there was never a plural recorded for it in latin anyway.
For those interested, here is a
link (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/plural-of-virus.html) to a long winded explanation :)

[cyberVera]

Communist, that about X and Y and nodding for perfect!

[dragongodz]

Actually it seems there's no clean cut answer as to the virus plural
no DigitAl56K is right in that in the English language the plural of virus is viruses according to the dictionary.

HOWEVER the word virii has become a commonly used (slang)word for computer viruses. do a search some time and you will see it gets a huge amount of hits. who knows one day it may even become an official word, trekkies did. :D

[Zyphon]

I use AntiVir for my anti-virus and Kerio Personal Firewall 4.x.

I have a question regarding Kerio Personal Firewall that seems to cause me problems on this site.

On the main site portal when you have news of udated software. If I click on the link to download the software I am brought to the Unauthorised Download Anti Leech page.

I discovered that if I temporarely disable my firewall then I could download the tools and then quickly activate my firewall again.

Does anyone know why Kerio Firewall does this?

[niamh]

no DigitAl56K is right in that in the English language the plural of virus is viruses according to the dictionary

I meant in the latin language, sorry, as I agree with your quote :)

[zilog jones]

Oh well, that's the last time I trust the internet for plurals!

(Nice to see someone else from Ireland! I bet I'm the only one here who could pronounce your name ^_^)

[Brother John]

@Zyphon
Doom9's downloads need referrers to be enabled. Kerio can block them an does so by default, if you're using the "Web" features.

Go to "Configuration / Web / Privacy" and disable "Deny servers to trace web-browsing". Of course referrers also need to be enabled in your browser.

[niamh]

I wouldn't dream of going surfing without a firewall or a router. As a matter of fact, I'm using Norton for both and I've been having serious issues with it lately (in fact, both are totally broken, and I'm following this thread to see to a replacement)
I've used Sygate before, I didn't like it, I used outpost, I didn't like it either.. I might try ZA, and AVG for an AV (though I feel more of a need for a firewall than an anti virus, should I need to choose between both)




(Nice to see someone else from Ireland! I bet I'm the only one here who could pronounce your name ^_^)

Well do not forget The Edge, who is the grandfather of all irish posters here :D
As a matter of fact, the issue of pronouncing my name has cropped up here an unbelievable number of times in the past 2 or 3 weeks for some curious reason :)

[Arachnotron]

After wmansir's post I gave m0n0wall a spin, and I must say I am impressed by it. If you have an old PC with two network cards lying about, do give it a try! Very easy to set up, you can run it from a CD (I used a flashcard).

I had to abandon it since the drivers for the gigabit cards I use were not fully stable (yet). Support for new hardware is common problem with (Free)BSD. So for me, IPcop is next but I may go back to it once the latest beta turns stable.
Rolling your own from gentoo is nice, but why re-invent the weel?:cool:

[Teegedeck]

Originally posted by Brother John
So, what to do with Joe Clueless, who will never reach that level simply because he doesn't care? As long as surfing, emailing and listening to MP3s continues to work somehow, he won't even complain about viruses on his machine.
I couldn't tell him to install a firewall because he could never configure it properly. Even keeping antivirus software up to date is not so easy because he often aborts the auto-update because »surfing is so slow when this thing is running«. Let's not even mention things like Windows update. This practically leaves one solution: Babysitting such a machine myself. But no way. I'd need a psychiatrist after two weeks.
Well, at least the Windows updates don't slow down browsing, anymore, so if it were, say, your parents' PC, I'd tend to just enable updates without telling them. :p No negative placebo effect that way. Virus definitions are more of a problem.

As a matter of fact, I don't think these denial-of-service problems will ever alleviate unless automatic updates via internet become a feature that cannot be deactivated. But then again, many people are very suspicious about that, mainly because they don't find Microsoft trustworthy, and I can understand that notion. Also, some, ahem, seem to have that inevitable piece of stolen software on their machine and are afraid M$ might track them down ... :rolleyes:

Perhaps a good Linux distribution that also features automatic updates would be less problematic though still sufficiently 'multi-media-capable' for most users. Everyone can afford Linux, because it is free; it is legal; updates are legal; no funny feelings about nosy sofware-companies. SUSE as a mainstream distro has an activated firewall by default, and for as long as the Trojan situation under Linux stays the way it is now, I could sleep at peace if, for example, my parents would use it. (Come to think of it, upon my next visit... :D) Also the M$-users' situation becomes more and more unbearable with complicated activation and licensing schemes etc.

I think Novell has a good chance of breaking into the mainstream market with their future 'Desktop 10' (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/infoworld/20050322/tc_infoworld/57912) and a Macintosh-like "easy, reliable, secure, and beautiful"-philosophy for their product.

[DigitAl56K]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22259

[Zyphon]

Originally posted by Brother John
@Zyphon
Doom9's downloads need referrers to be enabled. Kerio can block them an does so by default, if you're using the "Web" features.

Go to "Configuration / Web / Privacy" and disable "Deny servers to trace web-browsing". Of course referrers also need to be enabled in your browser.
Thank you for the info Brother John I really appreciate it.

I did not know Kerio did this and thanks for telling me how to disable it, it helps me out a lot. :)

[ukb008]

In my opinion the antivirus program is a necessity for a PC, and one should purchase it. The reason is that, in case of a purchase, there are committed people other than the PC owner to share the burden of undoing the wrong.

A virus attack causing loss of data in a drive is a dreadful carnage, and I should be happy when serious-looking people come and help out. I have had the dreadful experience of data loss due to virus attack. Believe me, the situation is perfectly ghastly.

Regards.

[magicclue]

Hardware Firewall mostly for incoming (in Router)
Sygate Personal Firewall Pro for all cases left e.g. outgoing

Kaspersky Antivirus

[WoundedVeins]

McAfee Internet Security Suite 2005 Version 7.0

I have a modem / router / firewall (3 in 1) as well from netgear.

[Venom_IL]

antivir - NOD32

firewall - none, i use my router's NAT

[Arachnotron]

Just as a bit of useless info: for the last few days, my firewall got hit by a RPC scan about once every 5 minutes. Each time from a different IP address. I love my firewall :)

[ukb008]

Just tell me this, PROs. Because almost everyone advises using a firewall, I had installed ZoneAlarm, and guess what? There were notices every second (even when I wasn't surfing) that a visitor was trying to gain entry through such and such port from such and such IP address, and would I let him in? Life halted, waiting for an answer.

Now, how do I recognize all these IP addresses? The notice does not include any legible details - legible enough to be understood by someone below an IQ of 200.

It was perfectly nightmarish. Ultimately I had to uninstall ZA, and, since then, I can't get over my feeling of inferiority for botching something that's supposed to be simple (judging by the posts like those in this thread) and perpetual dread becuse there are no more alarms (only occasional notice by my anivirus that such and such spyware or some obscure virus has been detected in C:/SSS or C:/windows and so on, and file was quarentined/deleted/cleaned).

Of course, the plain answer is that I didn't have the expertise expected to use firewall. Which brings me to this final question: what is the easiest-to-use firewall according to you PROs?

Regards.

[DigitAl56K]

@ukb008 - Here's Al's Firewall 101, hope it helps:

All firewalls are basically similar when they operate in their most basic mode (application rule mode).

The network is broken down into two categories:
1. Internal network/LAN/Local/Home Network/Trusted
2. Internet

When the firewall is first installed or you set up a new connection type (usually by installing a modem, network card, VPN account, etc. on your system) the firewall will ask you to specify which of these two categories the new connection falls under. By doing this the firewall can set up certain default rules (e.g. allowing users on your home network to access your shared files, but not users from the Internet), and it can also later allow you to specify how network traffic from other applications you use should be handled in each of these circumstances.

When you run an application, you can typically break down the network traffic associated with it into two categories also:

1. Outgoing (The application initiates the communication)
2. Incomming (The application opens a "port" on your system and "listens" for another device somewhere on the network/internet to initiate a connection with your computer)

In general then, you could recieve up to four different prompts asking you to allow or deny these scenarios:

1. The app is creating outgoing traffic to a trusted network
2. The app is creating outgoing traffic to an untrusted network
3. The app is recieving incomming traffic from a trusted network
4. The app is recieving incomming traffic from an untrusted network

When each of these situations occurs you are likely to recieve a popup asking you what to do. Usually that popup contains a checkbox for "Creating a rule", and in that case whatever you click on the popup will be applied to all traffic triggering the same scenario for that application.

Usually it is easiest/faster to trigger one scenario, and then manually edit the application rules in your firewall for the other three scenarios. Normally it's just a case of placing checks or crosses in the four possible boxes, replacing the question marks that are currently there (because you haven't defined the behavior for that scenario yet).

Of course, as I touched on very breifly most firewalls come with a few pre-defined rules that avoid you having to configure lower level things manually (e.g. windows file sharing and print sharing), and usually you can also create more advanced rules to filter traffic at the packet level if you need to.

Some firewalls also come pre-configured to popup alerts for certain kinds of traffic that can be identified as intrusion/hack attempts. These alerts are mostly useless and describe passive probing or general network traffic that your firewall is blocking anyway. Unless you believe you're under heavy attack from a determined hacker (and the chances of that are very low) you should just set the firewall to block the traffic and disable the alerts in the program preferences. If anything, these alerts tend to be marketing aids to sell more firewalls...

[ukb008]

Your post cheers me up condsiderably, and I am steeling myself for another brush-up with the firewall stuff.

Do recommend one, will you?

Regards.

[DigitAl56K]

My personal preference is Kerio Personal Firewall, although Zone Alarm is pretty good too (I used to use it a few years back).

I think it should be said that although firewalls have come a long way, due to their nature you will never find one with a truely simple "on/off" switch - my point being that it's probably best you try several and then persevere with the one you like best. As with any other software each will have it's own pros and cons in terms of functionality and UI. Even if you choose a firewall for it's UI rather than its feature list, that is still better than to choose no firewall at all ;)

Good luck!

[leadman584]

I used ZoneAlarm Pro, but since abandoning IE entirely, I find the free version, quite sufficient. An active antivirus scanner is essential. I like Anti-Vir, but many are very good. It may be free for home use, but in a corporate environment you will pay dearly. After 200+ virus removals, from client computers, Anti-Vir gets the job done for me. Although slightly outside the scope of this thread, I'd strongly recommend SpyWareBlaster for added protection.
When you run Spybot immunize, with SpyWareBlaster in place, You get a message, that essentially, you have the best already, why are you even clicking this button. 0 detections with SpyWareBlaster in place in over 6 months. Ad Aware and Spybot have found nothing. I have several other scanning programs, rarely used.

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag.php/mem/6206.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=6206)

[DigitAl56K]

Originally posted by leadman584
When you run Spybot immunize, with SpyWareBlaster in place, You get a message, that essentially, you have the best already, why are you even clicking this button.

Yes, but what makes you believe the message? ;)