VP7 - key frame bug and other problems

[SpaceV]

Hi All,

VP7 is now 'official' since over a week.
Some people (including me) here have experienced problems with VP7
where the encoded video seems to consist purely out of
key frames.

I want to start this thread to see if more poeple have seen
it or give some more input on it (what CPU, what App).

It seems that it might be related to AMD64 CPUs so it would be interesting if any P4 owners have seen this as well.

I am also interested in what other problems people have with
the codec other than its slow encoding speed.

It seems that On2 has problems getting this resolved.

[AlexB17]

I have a P4 and i have keyframes in VP7 streams! :)

[Sirber]

I sent datas (registry, 1st pass file) to on2 to help figthing this bug. I hope it will help :)

[dragongodz]

yes i also sent information about what happens with DVDx with different colour space output and VP7 2 pass to ON2.

my cpu is an Athlon XP 2400+. so it seems not cpu dependant at all.

[On2Tech]

It seems that the codec is expected to ignore the keyframe flag that DVDx explicitly sets. We have made this change and will be releasing a new codec soon.

[Sirber]

Will it work with avs2avi too?

[dragongodz]

It seems that the codec is expected to ignore the keyframe flag
which flag exactly ? the force keyframes ? if yes then why is it ghosted in Virtualdub etc ? that should mean that value IS ignored by the codec and it will use the settings in its own options.

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by dragongodz
which flag exactly ? the force keyframes ? if yes then why is it ghosted in Virtualdub etc ? that should mean that value IS ignored by the codec and it will use the settings in its own options.


We agree with your interpretation and this is what happened in VP6 and what should have been happening in VP7.

Sirber, we think that the bug you have observed is related / has the same cause and will get you and the other testers a new version with this fix and a couple of other improvements within the next 24-48 hours, so that you can test it before we release the patch to everyone.

Thanks to all who have submitted information and clips to help us resolve this.

On2Tech

[Sirber]

Yehoo! :D

Thanks for your efforts! :D

[Sirber]

Fixed with avs2avi. I updated my comparison thread. Thanks! :D

[SpaceV]

Can u try DVDx as well please.

[Sirber]

I don't have DVDx :(, but I guess it will work since the fix was for dvdx and not avs2avi :D

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by SpaceV
Can u try DVDx as well please.

We have tested the fix under DVDx and asked Sirber if he would be kind enough to confirm that it also fixed the problem with his application and avs2avi, as it seemed likely to us that the cause of the problem was the same in both situations.

On2Tech

[Sirber]

Is deblocking for 4x4 blocks activated?

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by Sirber
Is deblocking for 4x4 blocks activated?

It should be. But try the following to force it:

Add or set string registry entries :

\HKLM\Software\On2 Technologies\Vfw Encoder/Decoder Settings\VP70\strCPUFree = 0

and

\HKLM\Software\On2 Technologies\Vfw Encoder/Decoder Settings\VP70\strPostProcessingLevel = 2

or

\HKLM\Software\On2 Technologies\Vfw Encoder/Decoder Settings\VP70\strPostProcessingLevel = 4

[Sirber]

I will write a tool similar to RV10 HFE to config this :)

[SpaceV]

When will this version be available to the general public?
Today or Tomorrow?

[Sirber]

Are the reg change in realtime? If no, could they be (or with some lag)? Thanks!

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by SpaceV
When will this version be available to the general public?
Today or Tomorrow?

We are trying to get a release ready for tomorrow and are testing it now.

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by Sirber
Are the reg change in realtime? If no, could they be (or with some lag)? Thanks!

I'm afraid right now we read it in at load time. We could probably check it more frequently if necessary.

[Sirber]

Could be cool for external tweaking :D Once each second should not harm the CPU :)

[IgorC]

will the next version resolve high CPU using for playback?

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by IgorC
will the next version resolve high CPU using for playback?

Version 7.0.3.0 should have fixed cpu problems with playback performance. For reference here are the release notes for what will be getting released shortly.


Version 7.0.4.0
=======================================
- fixed problem with getting all kfs in some vfw based apps
- fixed problem with odd sized ( width and height) source video
- improved visual sharpness on some material.
- fixed problem with reencoding a vp7 encoded file.
- one buffer memory leak fixed on encode
- changed licensing so that new version extends licensing period

Version 7.0.3.0
=======================================
- made best quality mode better
- added auto postprocessing level so that machines that can't play fast enough
with post processing turn it off ..
- fixes discrepancies between mmx/sse/sse2 capable machines


Version 7.0.2.0
=======================================
- fixed bugs with spatial resampling ( green keyframes, wierd color artifacts)
- faster decode
- sharpness parameter effect

[Sirber]

- changed licensing so that new version extends licensing periodWhat does that mean? :confused:

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by Sirber
What does that mean? :confused:

Since the free trial is only 10 days and some people had problems with the initial release, we decided that each time a new version of the codec comes out we'd restart the clock and give the user a whole new set of 10 days.

Shouldn't affect those people who have a valid license at all.

[SpaceV]

are you still releasing VP7.0.4 today?

WinampTV: I am watching NBC GIGA Live on Winamp once in a while and
it is still VP6.2. Are you guys upgrade them to VP7?
Will there be a NSV VP7 plugin and when?

[On2Tech]

are you still releasing VP7.0.4 today?

We are shooting for today. It's still running through our testing process. I will post when its up.

WinampTV: I am watching NBC GIGA Live on Winamp once in a while and
it is still VP6.2. Are you guys upgrade them to VP7?
Will there be a NSV VP7 plugin and when?

Sorry I can't comment on that at this point.

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by SpaceV
are you still releasing VP7.0.4 today?

It's not ready. We'll shoot again for tomorrow, sorry for the delay.

[slavickas]

Originally posted by SpaceV
are you still releasing VP7.0.4 today?

WinampTV: I am watching NBC GIGA Live on Winamp once in a while and
it is still VP6.2. Are you guys upgrade them to VP7?
Will there be a NSV VP7 plugin and when?
imho support in winamp is dependant on nullpeople(aka nullsoft)/aol

[SpaceV]

oh no are we slipping another day?????

@slavickas:
I assume since On2 sells the NSV plugin, they
are the ones to create it. The question is demand....

I for my part wouldnt mind seeing GIGA in VP7 @ PAL resolution
and 400kbps :)

[Sirber]

@SpaceV

Bugging devs about new releases is very not cool... :eek:

[SpaceV]

easy for you to say, you already have a working version.

And I am a dev myself and I get bugged too :p

Also, I would like to plan my evening and since it was said to be released yesterday/today... I just want to know if I should stop waiting.

[Sirber]

You're right I got a working version, but it's not 7.0.4. It's a fix-test for vfw keyframe bug. I'm waiting as you guys for 7.0.4.

[IgorC]

Here is 18:08. there isn´t still new beta. Some problems as always.

[Sirber]

On2Tech said the license will be extended for testing, so relax guys :)

[IgorC]

10 days for Trial not like 6 months of DivxTrial :D

[SpaceV]

Hey Sirber did On2 hire you to be On2Techs
personal bodyguard on the board? ;)

Why not let him speak for himself?

[Sirber]

Nope. On2 did not hire me nor RN :p. I just speak my mind.

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by SpaceV
easy for you to say, you already have a working version.

And I am a dev myself and I get bugged too :p

Also, I would like to plan my evening and since it was said to be released yesterday/today... I just want to know if I should stop waiting.

Its up right now. Sorry for the delay.

VP7VFW Version 7.0.4.1 (http://www.on2.com/duckutils/duck_license.php?class=vp7)

[Sirber]

VFW GUI says 7.0.4.0. Is it normal?

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by Sirber
VFW GUI says 7.0.4.0. Is it normal?

I think I mistyped. I think its really 7.0.4.0.

[DeathTheSheep]

Ah, I see. This new version seems to be quite an improvement over the initial 1.0 I downloaded.

With v1.0.0, the rate control was a bit faulty, often resulting in filesizes 60% more than they should have been. This version seems to fix this. In the older version, "Best quality" mode was significantly slower than "good quality" mode, but the filesize differance was actually under 1KB for a 1 minute clip. This new version seems to have increased the quality significantly.

Interesting. I'll do some tests now that the br control is fixed.

I do have a problem, though. Using AVISynth, the VP6 decoder produces upside-down, backwards video. This will seriously impair PSNR results (as well as visual) of any tests I hope to perform( :D )! Is there a fix, or am I just to stupid to know what I'm doing? I'll tell you one thing: this video flipping has never occured before using avisource() in AVISynth. Oh, and directshowsource() doesn't work on the VP6 source either.

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by DeathTheSheep
Ah, I see. This new version seems to be quite an improvement over the initial 1.0 I downloaded.

With v1.0.0, the rate control was a bit faulty, often resulting in filesizes 60% more than they should have been. This version seems to fix this. In the older version, "Best quality" mode was significantly slower than "good quality" mode, but the filesize differance was actually under 1KB for a 1 minute clip. This new version seems to have increased the quality significantly.

Interesting. I'll do some tests now that the br control is fixed.

I do have a problem, though. Using AVISynth, the VP6 decoder produces upside-down, backwards video. This will seriously impair PSNR results (as well as visual) of any tests I hope to perform( :D )! Is there a fix, or am I just to stupid to know what I'm doing? I'll tell you one thing: this video flipping has never occured before using avisource() in AVISynth. Oh, and directshowsource() doesn't work on the VP6 source either.


For VP6 with Avisource I think you just need to add a flip vertical.
eg.

source=AviSource("src.avi")
source=ConvertToYV12(source)

video=AviSource("VP6xx.avi")
video=FlipVertical(video)
CompareYV12(video,source,"","yv12_VP6_result.txt")

For directshowsource I just tried it and it seemed to need an extra ConvertToYV12 as follows (which hurt results a tiny bit)!

source=AviSource("src.avi")
source=ConvertToYV12(source)

video=DirectShowSource("VP6xx.avi")
video=ConvertToYV12(video)
CompareYV12(video,source,"","yv12_VP6_resultb.txt")

[SpaceV]

Thanks for getting the fix out.

Seems to work.

I started to encode a movie @800kbps, progressive, both sliders
at 0. I am getting 2.3 frames per second on my AMD64@2.45 GHZ Socket 939, 1GIG DDR400. I am doing 1 pass best. Should I use 2 pass best?

I ran the encoding over night, this morning after almost 10 hours, it was 55% done.

@On2Tech what FPS do you see with what CPU? Is the codec multi threaded? Can it profit from the upcoming dual core CPUs?

Maybe I need a Cell CPU but they are not out until 2006 :(

[On2Tech]

Originally posted by SpaceV
Thanks for getting the fix out.

Seems to work.

I started to encode a movie @800kbps, progressive, both sliders
at 0. I am getting 2.3 frames per second on my AMD64@2.45 GHZ Socket 939, 1GIG DDR400. I am doing 1 pass best. Should I use 2 pass best?

I ran the encoding over night, this morning after almost 10 hours, it was 55% done.

@On2Tech what FPS do you see with what CPU? Is the codec multi threaded? Can it profit from the upcoming dual core CPUs?

Maybe I need a Cell CPU but they are not out until 2006 :(

I think your best bet is to use 2 pass Good Quality. The difference in quality between good and best is usually pretty small but as you'll see best quality takes a lot longer to encode.

We're still working on making our best quality faster.