"Shuddering" picture. What happened?

[recoil47]

I made a backup of "The Last Samurai" today. I didn't get a single error through the entire process, and it seemed like everything went GREAT. However when I tossed the DVD into the DVD player to check out the first few minutes like I always do, I noticed the "WB" logo shuddered just slightly before the movie started. Then some parts in the early scenes were REALLY shuddering almost skipping, like a few frames were missing intermittently.

Like I said, I ran the process without errors. Any ideas what could have happened here? Here are the apps I used, and the hardware I have:

AMD 4000+
2GB RAM
Plextor Serial ATA DVD Burner

Used DVD Decrypter to make original ISO
Used DIF4U 1.4.7
Used ScenAID 1.5
BatchCCEWS 0.9.1.5
CCE 2.67.00.23
Scenarist 2.7

Then I used IMG Tool to make the final ISO, and DVD Decrypter to burn it. I used 4X burning speed.

Weird part is, when I watch it on my PC, it doesnt seem like there is shuddering in the parts where the DVD did, but it does look like there are artifacts or errors in the picture that perhaps the DVD player doesnt like, but my computer (and being on a smaller screen) make look better.

Denon DVD-2200 player BTW...

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

[jel]

hmm .. to be honest it sounds like incorrect field order.

can you please provide further details?
pal ... ntsc?
what are the enocding settings in batchcce?

it may also be your brand of media? bad batch maybe?

[recoil47]

This is NTSC.

I use whatever the encoding settings are in the BIG3 - NEW guide. So Im not sure how to answer that.

My DVD Media is TDK 8X -R
But I burned at 4X speed.

[D3s7]

If you still have the .iso, try mounting it and see if that plays back ok...

Try to watch the individual assets too... see if you can isolate the issue..

which field order diagnosis do you setup in Doitfast4u (field or frame)?
do you have the "Autodetect NTSC Video Type" enabled?
which version of which batchencoder did you use (there was an issue w/ BatchEncoderM2V's pulldown that COULD explain it.... you should have revpulldown.exe ver .99i - you can test that by running it from the cmd prompt..)

those are the kind of things to check..

[recoil47]

OK,

I do have the original ISO and mounted it. It doesnt appear to have the little errors/artifacts in the early scenes like the final ISO does. I also re-ran the process last night and it looks like the same issue is present with the new re-encode.

There really aren't any individual assets on this DISC. There is just VTS_01. The sucker is 100% movie.

Field Order Diagnosis: If by this, you mean Stream Diagnosis, it is currently set to FRAME Diagnosis.

Autodetect NTSC Video Type: This is currently set in the GLOBAL OPTIONS drop-down menu. There is a second option for this setting on the main window, and it is currently OFF there. But if its on in the GLOBAL Settings, I think it does its thing. It is set up the way the Big3new has it.

I used BatchCCEWS 0.1.9.5. I haven't used the new one because it looks like it is still early in development, and frankly its tricky enough to get stuff to work with the tried and true programs. :)

Side note: I also ran the backup of the DVD on my Magnavox player, and the same effects occured, so I can't really blame this on the pickiness of my Denon. My Magnavox will literally play anything.

So something is definitely happening to cause this to not work correctly and Im not sure whats causing it.

[D3s7]

I'd make sure you have the option turned on in the main page as well (NTSC Autodetect)

you can try if you want, rerunning pulldown on the encoded asset w/ the switch to change field order and see if that makes a difference....

also, if you use windvd or powerdvd, load up the encoded mpv.m2v file (this is what I meant by assets) and see if you can seek to that position, see if it's there as well.. if it is then it's an encoding/pulldown issue.. if it's not then it's something goofy in scenarist (probably the prior then the later.. ususally if scenarist is the issue, it won't compile)

what was the average bitrate used to encode this too?

[recoil47]

Well,

I was able to view the de-muxed (from DIF4U) VTS_01_P01.M2V in WinDVD, which is pre-encoded, and there seemed to be no issues with the picture.

I wasn't able to view, what I believe to be the post-encoded file, which was named VTS_01_P01.xxxxxx.nopull.mpv. I even manually assigned the file type to WinDVD and it just doesn't do anything. I assume thats the file you are asking me to view, because its about half the size of the original (3.8GB) and it was also created at about 5am, which is when the encoding would have finished. The .M2V file was finished at 11:20pm, which was when I was demuxing.

So I haven't been able to view the specific asset you asked, but it really does look like everything up to the encoding point went OK.

Average Bitrate was about 3.2, which I assume is pretty good right? I think its about as good as I can get given that the main movie was 7.5GB originally, and took up both layers on the dual layer disc.

Lastly, I am not sure exactly what you mean by re-running the "pulldown" on the encoded asset. What application would this be? Where is the command to change field order like you asked?

This is 2 tricky DVDs I have. Still issues with Butterfly Effect, and now Last Samurai is giving me grief when on the surface it appeared to have run perfectly. :)

Thanks for the help thus far

[D3s7]

ah... you probably will have to rename it to .m2v before anything will play it... they just don't know aht mpv is :)

don't worry about running pulldown because it's obviously a no-pull file so pulldown isn't run on it

I think you were looking at encoding rate not bitrate.. bitrate would be like 2xxx-3xxx - that can be found by looking in the ccedata file and see what bitrate it's assigned...

[recoil47]

OK,

Renaming worked. :) And there are DEFINITELY issues with the encoded assets. I forget the technical term for this error (its in a lot of DVD players in fact) but there are visible horizontal lines around the edges of people, that become even more visible in motion.

Suggestions?

[D3s7]

sounds like the wrong field order maybe....

you can run pulldown on it (in the doitfast4u directory) w/ the -tff flag and use the opposite of what it's encoded as

so either pulldown {inputfile} {outputfile} -tff even OR: -tff odd

how do you know which...

1) check if you have "invert field order" checked in doitfast4u, if so, then do what's named in the file.. if it shows TFF then run -tff even

if that isn't checked and you have TFF in the filename, do -tff odd

then check the resulting file again and see if makes a difference..

[recoil47]

Alright.

First, I do not have "Invert Field Order" checked in DIF4U.

Second, I do not see TFF anywhere in any filename.

Third, I did find the pulldown.exe file. What file am I running this on? Do I run it on the DIF4U Demuxed file (the 6G one)? Or do I run it on the file that was already encoded (the 3.8G one)?

My 2 files are:

(DIF4U demux file)
VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.M2V

(Encoded file)
VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.nopull.mpv

This sounds really messy. :)

[hendrix]

Originally posted by recoil47
Used DVD Decrypter to make original ISO
Used DIF4U 1.4.7
Used ScenAID 1.5
BatchCCEWS 0.9.1.5
CCE 2.67.00.23
Scenarist 2.7

Then I used IMG Tool to make the final ISO, and DVD Decrypter to burn it. I used 4X burning speed.
Instead of using IMG Tool to make the final ISO, you can make a Scenarist .dvd image file and burn that via DVD Decrypter - this may help your workflow

[recoil47]

Yes it would thanks for the tip. How do I do that direct from Scenarist?

[hendrix]

Originally posted by recoil47
Yes it would thanks for the tip. How do I do that direct from Scenarist?
very easy - in the layout editor, in step 3 check both the Create DVD Video and Create Disk Image bullets

[recoil47]

Thanks, Ill do it.

Anyone have ideas on how to fix my encoding issue with Last Samurai? It is still doing the shuddering thing. Makes me feel like Im watching a movie without my 3D glasses. :)

[D3s7]

Originally posted by recoil47
Alright.

First, I do not have "Invert Field Order" checked in DIF4U.


Second, I do not see TFF anywhere in any filename.

Third, I did find the pulldown.exe file. What file am I running this on? Do I run it on the DIF4U Demuxed file (the 6G one)? Or do I run it on the file that was already encoded (the 3.8G one)?

My 2 files are:

(DIF4U demux file)
VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.M2V

(Encoded file)
VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.nopull.mpv

This sounds really messy. :)

1) Good then what's in the file is what it really is
2) If it doesn't say TFF then it's BFF
3) Well.. running it on the original file wouldn't do much for your compile.... you want to run it on the encoded one...

For the sake of time:
1) Run Pulldown w/ pulldown.exe VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.nopull.mpv pulltest.m2v -nopulldown -tff:odd
2) view pulltest.m2v in media player.. see if it looks crappy
If not, skip to 5
3) Run Pulldown w/ pulldown.exe VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.nopull.mpv pulltest.m2v -nopulldown -tff:odd
4) view pulltest.m2v in media player.. see if it looks crappy
5) rename VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.nopull.mpv ENCOED.mpv
6) rename pulltest.m2v VTS__01_P01.P.16~9_1.nopull.mpv
7) open your scenarist .SCN file
8) click the last tab and recompile the project

[recoil47]

OK here is an update:

I ran the pulldown just as you stated in line 1) and watched the finished file, and it looked exactly the same (crappy).

I was confused by your step 3). It is exactly the same thing as step 1). Why would I do the same thing twice if it didn't work the first time?

This backup is proving to be quite a pain.

[D3s7]

oops... switch it to -ttf:even

[recoil47]

Neither of those options cleaned up the picture.

The weird thing about this is, some scenes are fine. The opening "WB" logo when it twists to the center of the screen shudders a bit. Then the entire next scene with the guy meditating about some dudes fighting a tiger is all OK. Then in the following scene there are problems with shuddering with the guy trying to get Cruise to come out in front of all those people when hes drunk.

So some are totally OK, while others suffer from this. There doesnt seem to be a pattern, just that some scenes are flawless and others aren't.

[D3s7]

the one thing you never said is what the bitrate these assets were encoded at... could just be a problem w/ not a high enough bitrate

[recoil47]

Sorry I thought I commented on that. According to CCE, the average bitrate was 3.2, so i guess thats like 3200? I thought anything over 3000 was decent. Ive seen other DVDs where the average bitrate was lower than that and things turned out OK.

[recoil47]

...in what is truly sick and wrong, I ran this backup with DVD Shrink and it came out fine. Seems I only get the studdering using Big 3 on this particular DVD. Very verry odd (and disturbing).

Any closing thoughts on how to correct this? Or should I just close the book and keep this DVD Shrink stripped-down version without menus and such?

[D3s7]

the issue has something to do w/ how the assets are being re-encoded...

it still could be a field issue or could be an issue w/ the avs script and how the asset is being handled...

i'm not the best one for handling encoding issues but maybe someone else has done this movie and can shed more light on it....

[Trahald]

i did last samarai (r1) came out beautiful.

can you paste the first 50 lines or so of your .d2v and the last 5 also.. And also paste the entire .avs file.

[recoil47]

Well I don't know what to say.

I ran the backup again, from the original decrypted ISO, overnight last night to get you the info you had wanted. This time everything came out PERFECT.

As far as I can tell, I did absolutely nothing different than the last time I tried it. All the programs were the same. I'm using d3s7's latest Scenaid whereas before I was using 1.5.0, but I don't see how that would effect encoding, as I didnt change the CCE version or app at all.

And I did run the backup complete, front to end, TWICE before I made this initial post in this thread.

So basically, it came out fine. I didnt do anything different from the priot 2 attempts, and I dont know what the problem was. So I guess Ill shrug it off as a victory and go from there.

Thanks :)

[D3s7]

haha... gotta love that :)

[recoil47]

Brings back Windows 98 memories: "I was giving me all sorts of system errors...I didnt do anything...and now its booting up fine. Damn thing fixed itself"

[fedge]

EEE_VILE COMPUTERS>>>!!!!:devil: