XVID playback on Philips dvp642

[KevDog]

Ive looked everywhere for an answer and was wondering if anyone could provide any suggestions.

Ive captured video from my ATI VC into mpg2 format. I want to convert the captured, and edited video to xvid format.

Ive tried using AutoGK (1.92 beta) along with the the installed xvid codec (binary version 1.03) on winxp sp2 platform. Ive also manually changed a bunch of settings using Gordian Knot. My problem is not producing the video on my computer -- it seems any settings I try will playback successfully on the computer with WMP, winamp, etc. My problem is when the eventual avi file is burned to CD, the resultant video on the Philips dvp642 is jumpy although the audio is in sync.

Ive tried the 4cc codec change trick, along with converting from an opendml avi format to old format using virtualdubmod, however the resultant video plays the same way on the philips player.

As a comparison, video converted from mpeg2 to divx5 plays without any problems on the dvp642.

I was wondering if anyone knew the xvid codec version contained in the hardware on the player. I was wondering if the xvid video I was trying to produce on the computer was with a newer xvid codec that the version on the DVD player. Possibly this might be the source of the problem?!

Any other suggestions would be great.
Thanks

[celtic_druid]

MPEG4 is MPEG4 and there is no codec per say installed on the machine.
Try XviD 1.1beta1 with the DivX Home Theatre profile. Should playback fine.

Also here: http://celticdruid.no-ip.com/test/xvid1.1.0betaDXN.7z is a version patched as per: http://list.xvid.org/pipermail/xvid-devel/2005-February/004866.html

[KevDog]

Thanks for the suggestions, however I dont have the means to compile a binary version of xvid. I was wondering if there was a precompiled version with this patch available.

[KaiserS]

Originally posted by KevDog
Thanks for the suggestions, however I dont have the means to compile a binary version of xvid. I was wondering if there was a precompiled version with this patch available.

What is there to compile? You just replace your old xvidcore.dll and xvidvfw.dll with the ones in the package that celtic_druid provided.

[BigDid]

Originally posted by KevDog
Ive looked everywhere for an answer and was wondering if anyone could provide any suggestions.

Ive captured video from my ATI VC into mpg2 format. I want to convert the captured, and edited video to xvid format.

Ive tried using AutoGK (1.92 beta) along with the the installed xvid codec (binary version 1.03) on winxp sp2 platform.

Any other suggestions would be great.
Thanks
With Autogk, did you check the the support for ess based standalone? if not please reinstall and give it a try with xvid 1.03.

There are some threads related to jerky or stutters or stuttering playback, sorry no time at the moment to point it out, try the search function.

Did

[Ark]

You probably used GMC or Qpel (or both), maybe with packed bitstream and so explained the results.

DXN Profiles avoid these "not-so-compatible" (atm) options...

[igor140]

got the same player.

ark is right, if you uses GMC or QPel, you'll have to reencode.

If you used packed bitstream, unpack using MPEG4Modifier (www.moitah.net)

What will probably do the trick is:

Use AVImux_GUI for muxing.

Disable Open-DML, but enable REC-lists, according to the author, they "minimize seek operations when the output file is replayed."

Helps a lot on my player.


Something I haven't sufficiently tested is, if there is a limit to the bitrate the player can cope with. If AVImux doesn't help you, you might have to reencode using DIVX5 and set a bitrate limit of, say, 4000 kbps.

[KaiserS]

Originally posted by igor140
Something I haven't sufficiently tested is, if there is a limit to the bitrate the player can cope with. If AVImux doesn't help you, you might have to reencode using DIVX5 and set a bitrate limit of, say, 4000 kbps.

Thats what the DXN Home theater profile is for in XviD. Should have no problems if you stick with it.

[igor140]

Should have no problems if you stick with it.

I doubt that, because that profile forces packed bitstream, something the philips player doesn't like.

[bond]

2 things:
1) KevDog seems to use xvid 1.0.3, which afaik doesnt offer vbv and especially not DivX Profiles and we dont know whether he used packed bitstream or not
2) if the philips player is divx certified it has to handle packed bitstream with 1 b-frames

i would say if KevDog used packed bitstream in his encode, try again without packed bitstream
if he didnt use packed bitstream, try again with packed bitstream

and the most important thing:
:search: (especially in the hardware player forum where this thread belongs imho)
i am 100% sure this has been already discussed and answered (sounds very familiar to my ears)

[BigDid]

Originally posted by BigDid
With Autogk, did you check the the support for ess based standalone? if not please reinstall and give it a try with xvid 1.03.

There are some threads related to jerky or stutters or stuttering playback, sorry no time at the moment to point it out, try the search function.

Did
Ok, a little more time. :)

The dvp462 has an ess chip and will benefit from that option if you use AGK and xvid 1.03 (bundled with)

Some related threads for AGK, xvid, standalone, recommandations ...
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=575228#post575228
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85940
Even this one related to xvid 1.1
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88708

Thank you for some feedback

Did

[KevDog]

Wow a lot of responses -- Thanks

After some further reading from some of the other posts - I did reinstall AutoGK with ESS support, however I really saw no difference with the results.

As far as the packed vs unpacked bitstream, is there a way to set this with AutoGK. Using GK, I see the setting however I unchecked this option along with unchecking the global motion compensation and Quarter Pixel. Again, I saw no difference in the final output.

I appreciate the help, however I spent about 4 hours looking at other posts before posting, and no specific post addressed this issue. Again, xvid plays great on my computer but not on the player.

[KaiserS]

Originally posted by igor140
I doubt that, because that profile forces packed bitstream, something the philips player doesn't like.

No it doesn't. I've encoded using the DXN HT Profile all the time and it never turned on packed bitstream. :) Even if it did, it can be easily unchecked.

[KevDog]

Results have improved with the following:

Source video: TV recorded via video card: NTSC, Interlaced, Resolution 704x480, 29.970 fps

Conversion to XVid Method:
1. DGIndex - to prepare .d2v file. Configuration Video - Field Operation=None, PC Scale, Audio demuxed as .mp2.

2. BeSweet - transcode .mp2 to .mp3.

3. AviSynth framescript (for Gordian Knot):
MPEG2Source("C:cut.d2v")
Telecide(order=1)
Decimate(cycle=5)
BicubicResize(640,480,0,0.5)

Im not sure if this is correct, however should remove the interlacing and resize the source (should I resize to something else?)

4. Gordian Knot settings
.d2v file used as input
Resolution settings: Input resolution 704x480, Pixel Aspect Ratio 0.911x1.397 (Chose 704x480 off list), No Crop, Output resolution 640x480 Gives bit per pixel * Frame 2.340.
Xvid Options (Employed XviD 1.1beta1 codec as suggested above):
2 pass - 1st pass: Profile AS@L5, H.263 Quantization, No Adaptive Quantization, No Interlaced Encoding, No Quarter Pixel, No Global Motion Compensation, B-Vops - Max=1, QR-1.5, QO-1.0, PACKED BITSTREAM (as suggested above), Advanced Options= Motion search precision=6, VHQ mode =1, VHQ for bframes, Chroma motion, Turbo, Frame drop ratio=0, Max I frame=300, Quantiziation Set all min frame quantizer to 1 (as recommended in other posts, although 2 is usually default for xvid), no trellis quantization. 2nd pass: Options same as first pass.

During encoding process: Chose to just mux mp3 audio (created above) with video (as specified).

Output with these settings improved, however there are portions were video is choppy (other portions were video is great), and has poor audio play (skips, repeats, etc).

Any other suggestions?
Should I re-encode interlaced or use a different profile??

[BigDid]

Originally posted by KevDog
Wow a lot of responses -- Thanks

After some further reading from some of the other posts - I did reinstall AutoGK with ESS support, however I really saw no difference with the results.

As far as the packed vs unpacked bitstream, is there a way to set this with AutoGK...
Hi Kevdog,

1/ You should see "some" differences in AGK with the ESS support.

2/ AGK does not use packed bistreams with xvid see AGK FAQ for more info

3/ In one of the threads, Richardd gave a link to update the bios of the DVP 462; even if you don't want to take the risk to update,try checking your version to see if you have an old or new rev.

Finally outside AGK, if you use the DXN profile (limited to 4000kbps) with the xvid 1.1 beta, you should not -in theory- have any stutters because the DXN profile matches the specifications of your standalone (SAP). You may have to search a solution elsewhere; I mean the problem may be elsewhere ...

Now if you have spare time, stutters happens when the SAP chokes with a high bitflow (too high kbps). If you lower the final size you will lower the global kbps and at one moment you should not have any stutters; If you have stutters for a final size of 1400Mb (2cd) try 1100 than 900 than 700 Mb (1cd).
Hummmm, this last explanation is not very scientific, anybody wanting to reformulate feel free to do so :)

Did

[KevDog]

Again my source was an mpeg2 ntsc 704-480 resolution capture from my TV card. I think the card captured around 8000Kbps. Ive since adjusted. Im not too sure if this may be the source of the problem.

The minute I bought the player (alright 5 minutes after I opened the box) I immediately flashed with lastest firmware and with dvd region hack.

Just a suggestion needed - Using DgIndex or DVD2AVI, the info window just says NTSC and interlaced. Although Ive read many a guide explaining Force Film vs IVTC, which should I be using, a does it really matter???

Is there a way possibly to cut the bitrate of the source mpeg2 file in half, or resample the source??

Thanks

[BigDid]

Originally posted by KevDog
Again my source was an mpeg2 ntsc 704-480 resolution capture from my TV card. I think the card captured around 8000Kbps....

...Is there a way possibly to cut the bitrate of the source mpeg2 file in half, or resample the source??

Thanks
Sorry, not clear enough.

By final size I mean size of the .avi output encoded by xvid (1.03 or 1.1) and yes it's a matter of bitrate (kbps=bitrate) you have the average kb/ps given by vdub or vdubmod when seeking the info of the resulting avi.
...I don't have access to these progs atm so I can't give you a step by step how-to.

I wouldn't bother on the input bitrate (mpeg2) atm except if your card misses frames and the resulting mpeg2 gives you stutters or choking: garbage in/garbage out ?
If not the case,I would focus on the encoding process and the final file.avi size ( you did not provide this info) and lower encode, lower encode until no stutters. It seems not uncommon for the dvp462 to have stutters with a 2 cd final size (sources Manono and Richardd) and should not be the case for 1 cd. In between it's up to you to test.
If lowering the size brings no benefit, you will have to broaden the search for a different cause
Sorry if not so clear, it's a french thinking to english writing on the fly translation :)

Did

[KevDog]

I think I finally figured some things out, thanks to some of the above suggestions, however I would just like to point out a few points for others who may be in the same situation

All of the guides I seen on doom9 or videohelp assume that the reference source is a DVD. In fact, both autogk and gk assume that this will be the input, and hence the resulting file size is geared toward one or two cds. With a mpeg2 file for input, rather than a dvd, you can not rely on the autosettings of one cd or two cd. Rather than relying on gk to calculate the average bitrate dependent on file size I found it rather useful for the user to specify the average bitrate and then let the program determine the final file size.

When playing around with average bitrate, there is a dependence on output resolution, bits/pixel, and percent compressibility. Changing either average bitrate or output resolution, will effect the other two factors. What I found (at least my method), was to first set the output resolution to a desired value (it could match the input resolution or be something different). I then manually played with the average bitrate, until I got a bits/pixel that was adequate. What is an adequate bits/pixel resolution??? Doom9 states the following:

* It's not a good idea to go much below 0.17 bits/pixel*frame
* If you go for 1 CD stay close to 0.17
* If you go for 2 CDs stay around 0.25
* If TV bits/pixel*frame is below ~0.13 you should raise your
bitrate (and go for more CDs).

Using these numbers as a guide I was able to manually set the average bitrate until I found something either = 0.17 or was higher.

With mpeg2 used as input, the audio is dumuxed with Dvd2avi or dgindex, and manually is transcoded using besweet/besweetgui/belight. I chose a constant bitrate for the mp3 based on a suggestion of another post that stated encoding with CBR will probably be more universally accepted rather than VBR. Im not sure if this is true, however CBR worked for me.

After playing around with the settings mentioned above, I finally was able to produce an avi player capable of playing on the dvp642 with lines, pathches, or skipping. As far as the xvid 1st and 2nd pass settings, I applied what was mentioned in the posts above. Possibly the settings mentioned on doom9 guide would also apply.

Thanks

[KevDog]

Sorry the last paragraph should read:

After playing around with the settings mentioned above, I finally was able to produce an avi player capable of playing on the dvp642 without lines, pathches, or skipping. As far as the xvid 1st and 2nd pass settings, I applied what was mentioned in the posts above. Possibly the settings mentioned on doom9 guide would also apply.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by KevDog
As a comparison, video converted from mpeg2 to divx5 plays without any problems on the dvp642.

I was wondering if anyone knew the xvid codec version contained in the hardware on the player. I was wondering if the xvid video I was trying to produce on the computer was with a newer xvid codec that the version on the DVD player. Possibly this might be the source of the problem?!

Any other suggestions would be great.
Thanks
IMHO, you might as well just use DivX with the DVP642, as it's certified to play the DivX "home theater" profile but isn't certified for XviD.

Personally, I can hardly tell a difference between a well-encoded 1-CD rip and a 2-CD rip (at least on my regular 25" interlaced TV set) using the Philips, so consider sticking to 1 CD most of the time to avoid wasting encoding time and discs, as well as keeping the bitrate within limits.

Just some random suggestions...

[xistan]

Originally posted by KevDog
Rather than relying on gk to calculate the average bitrate dependent on file size I found it rather useful for the user to specify the average bitrate and then let the program determine the final file size.

This is really just another way of doing things. Either you adjust the bitrate until a certain size is reached, or you adjust the size to reach a certain bitrate. The preset target sizes has nothing to do with the source and should be applicable on whatever your input might be.


Originally posted by KevDog
What is an adequate bits/pixel resolution???

In my opinion there is no such thing as an adequate bits/pixel value. You should perform a compressibility test and go for percentage instead. My experience is that for most encodes the Doom9 recommended values are fine, but you might be off track for many movies either wasting space or quality. A comptest takes just a few minutes so you shouldn't really skip it.

However I don't own a philips player and perhaps what I write above doesn't apply to you, but I hope it will help you somewhat.

/C

[KevDog]

Just a brief poll of the audience

I do a compresibility test and find a value.

The other field list the percentage of compressibility.

I read in dooms forums that usually a value of 40-60% of maximum was usually sufficient, although the author attempt to state that if B-frames are used a value of 20% may be good enough.

Just wondering percentage other people are using that they deem to be acceptable??? I know this question is rather subjective since a lower percentage implies a "lower-quality" final product, however just trying to get a feel from others.

[xistan]

Originally posted by KevDog

I read in dooms forums that usually a value of 40-60% of maximum was usually sufficient, although the author attempt to state that if B-frames are used a value of 20% may be good enough.


I'd say a 20-40% encode does not look good, no matter what. Personally I would rather decrease resolution of movie to match size in order to get a higher quality percentage. I'd say 60-80% is a good target if your vision is not too sharp. If you want very good quality go for 80-90 % but then you need more space for your movie.

/C