Just completed first backup. BASIC overall questions on the process. Please help.

[recoil47]

Being new to this I dont have an overall working knowledge of all that is going on with the Big3 new process. That being said, I finished my first backup with relatively no problems. However, what I was hoping I could accomplish, and what I believe I actually did I think are 2 different things, and I am hoping for some guidance and advice.

What I want to do:

Make a backup of a full Dual Layer DVD into a Single layer DVDR, while at the same time, stripping out all the extra stuff I do not want (so not a 100% complete backup, but a selective backup).

In other words, take out all the extras, previews that some movies have before them these days, and unneeded audio tracks (basically keep DTS or 5.1).

Then, with that stuff removed, I want to make a backup of just the main movie and menus (and retain chapter selection options, etc).

What I believe happened:

I think I ended up just making a full backup of the entire DVD, and I did not compress the extras or previews, they are still in their original size and format.

I used DoitFast4IU and ONLY selected the main movie. Went through all the motions, and at the end of the process I was told to take all of the original files from DVD Decrypter and add the Scenarist files on top of them --- which to me basically translates to "the uncompressed versions of the stuff I didnt select in DoitFast4U." I noticed the movie was compressed and was just the right size to fit with the full sizes of the other items.

Here are the questions:

1) Is there a way to do what I want with this process? Completely remove all the unwanted media, and just have functioning menus with chapter selections and the main movie and main audio track?

2) Given that the outlined process ends up putting all the other material back into the DVD anyway...would it not make sense to just have all the other stuff compressed also so the main movie can be at a higher quality?

3) What are the quality ramifications of doing a FULL backup of all the material, and doing one of just the main movie? I would think that if as much space as possible was used for the movie, the quality would be as good as it could.

Thanks for your help.

[recoil47]

Just a note so I dont get newb flamed...

I do realize there is a "partial backup guide" but since the Big3 was so highly recommended, I guess I am asking for ramifications and differences.

If I use a program in the partial backup guide section to strip off all but what I want, will the audio/picture quality be BETTER than a full backup with the Big3 process? Is one of those methods better than another?

That is the sort of thing I am looking to understand.

[jel]

hi recoil47 and welcome to the forum!

well ... there are two issues here ...

one.
the 'big 3' method is intended as a FULL DVD back-up method. this is not to say that you cannot adapt this method to remove certain things ... all i am saying is, the developers/mods/users of these tools, generally feel pretty strongly about keeping the essense of the original dvd intact.

two.
its YOUR back-up. no-one is going to sit there, bend your arm behind your back and tell you how you should do this. however, be warned, if you do use these tools to do a movie only rip and run into problems, you will most likely find that support for your issues will not be very forthcoming.

anyways, the only way of seeing which methods you prefer are to try them all out. try a partial back-up method and see if you are happy with the results.

good luck, and is you decide that the big 3 tools are for you, then i strongly recommend that you try a complete back-up (processing extras etc) and try the end result for yourself. i think you will be amazed at the results you can get.

j

[recoil47]

Thanks for the info. Ill go for the full backup method and see how it works. :)

[influenza]

And one technical sidenote: deselecting things in dif4u won't lead to leaving these things out, but to not reencoding those (as you have already found out).

If you're deperate to leave things out 9other than audio/subs) I would say you process the dvd first to strip things. Re-iso it and after that process it with the big 3. But as Jel already stated the developers have made all the tools with a full backup in mind. Leaving out previews of dvds you already have is something that is understandable though.

[recoil47]

Thanks for the input...although I think I jynx'd myself.

After I ran that successful backup (although not completed how it should have been) I was trying to update a version or two of some of the software. Now I can't do another successful backup at all.

It gets to the same part then stops.

Scenaid runs the encoding process, but Scenarist never launches. I'm not sure why it isn't launching now when it did before, but it doesn't and the backup never goes any farther.

I try to launch it manually, (from using NEW FROM SCRIPT) option. I point it to the script, but it also asks me for the Scenarist file (a .scn file) and I don't have one! Searched all over my HD and dont see it. Where should an .scn file be and why isn't this process generating one for me?

Kinda stuck. :(

[influenza]

In the second box you just give the name of your scenatrist project so it's true the file doesn't exist, you have to define it ;). Try to download the lastest automate scenarist from the numenu page, should solve your problems

[recoil47]

Trying that Automate thing. Didn't see in the guide where or how to use it though. I also checked the Numenu website and there wasn't any info on its use there either, not to mention no readme.txt file. :)

Its a simple enough 60KB file. Is there a part of this site that explains its use?

The weird thing is, I got ONE backup to work begining to end, and Scenarist did launch. Granted, I ended up uninstalling/reinstalling everything between then and now (and im sure that somehow caused a problem, but I dont know where). Everything seems to go just fine, its just that Scenaid never launches Scenarist.

[jel]

over-write the Autonmate_Scenarist.exe in you ScenAid install directory - C:\Program Files\ScenAid, then re-run ScenAid ...
or, open Scenaid --> Options --> Other Options --> Associate SCP files with Automate Scenarist. Select this option, then double click on your .scp file located in your demux directory. automat_scenarist should then import that .scp file into scenarist, and create your .scn file for you.

good luck
j

edit: btw which version of scenarist are you using? some users have reported issues with v3.01, although 2.7/3.0 seems to be ok.

[recoil47]

Using 2.7.

Tried the Automate Scenarist thing, did exactly as you said --- I even double-checked the file types in FOLDER OPTIONS in XP and it shows .SCP asociated with the automate program (new version). However I double click on the script, I get an hourglass for a second, then nothing.

It seems that no matter what, Scenarist just does not want to be run by any other program on this computer. I'm about to the point of totally un-installing EVERYTHING and starting over from scratch again.

I hope these programs dont leave registry entries that cause problems with reinstallations (which might carry over previous errors).

This is getting annoying. It worked once, and now no matter what, I cant get past the encoding part, Scenarist never runs. Wouldn't be so bad, but I have to wait like 2-3 hours for the encoding part to get done before I see that things still arent fixed. ;)

[Zeul]

recoli47
For testing purposes just press the Use original assets in the Default tab, this bypases the video encoding. Also try setting the scenarist options to No Scenarist and import the script manually from within Scenarist, then after compile running the update_menu_ifo.bat file.

[Raster]

Originally posted by recoil47
1) Is there a way to do what I want with this process? Completely remove all the unwanted media, and just have functioning menus with chapter selections and the main movie and main audio track?


A long time ago the Big 3 included a program called ReAuthorist. When development stopped on that we got lucky to have D3s7 fill in with his fine work on ScenAid.

ReAuthorist has some limitations but with it you can set different bit rates on all of the assets and select assets to remove. The catch is that unlike ScenAid, ReAuthorist can not handle processing movies demuxed by Vob or Cell ID. If your movie does not require that kind of processing you can give that a try. Doom9 still has the guide for the old Big3 with ReAuthorist.

I'm not positive but I think I read somewhere that D3s7 was thinking about adding bitrate adjustment to ScenAid.

And like influenza has mentioned, you can pre-process 1st before the Big3(new). Take a look at the "One click DVD backup solutions" forum than come back here when your ready.

[influenza]

I'm not positive but I think I read somewhere that D3s7 was thinking about adding bitrate adjustment to ScenAid.

I have seen beta versions of this so I hope it will reach the final product.

[Raster]

ooooh yeahhh, can't wait!

Thanks for that information flu.

[Paulcat]

If you want to make backups from a dvd9 to dvd5 and just keep the stuff you want, try dvd shrink. It will allow you to do movie-only (and select start and end frame) or full backup (with or without compression), and selectable audio/subtitles. Granted, re-processing the video always results in better quality than the quick-shrink programs (CloneDVD or DVD Shrink)...but it depends on what you want.

Also, movie only backup gives better quality for the movie as opposed to wasting space on all the other crap. Plus, the menus will lose functionality when you delete some of the subtitles and audio..

[recoil47]

Regarding DVD Shrink, Ive heard that while it is good in that it can strip off all the unwanted stuff, its encoding isn't nearly as good, so quality still suffers. Basically, a full DVD Backup of a DVD with Big3 is better still than a DVD Shrink backup with everything else stripped off.

[influenza]

Also, movie only backup gives better quality for the movie as opposed to wasting space on all the other crap. Plus, the menus will lose functionality when you delete some of the subtitles and audio..

Obviously you can use some reading ;)

If we're talking about stripping everything and leaving the movie untouched this is true. But it takes away the essence of the dvd. I never do partial backups. I appreciate the work the creator has put into it so if I make a backup it's a full backup. And in mostt cases you can get nearly perfect backups, while still retaining all aspects.

And the menus/ifos are also adjustable of course to mainting a working menu.

[Raster]

Originally posted by recoil47
Regarding DVD Shrink, Ive heard that while it is good in that it can strip off all the unwanted stuff, its encoding isn't nearly as good, so quality still suffers. Basically, a full DVD Backup of a DVD with Big3 is better still than a DVD Shrink backup with everything else stripped off.

Ok, sence the hints did not work, here is one way you can do what you want:

Pre-process the DVD with DVD Shrink to remove the stuff you do not want. Do not compress the movie (set it to no compression). Set the output to ISO image. Now you have an ISO of the DVD (with stuff removed, recompressedt, etc..) that you can process with the Big3(NEW).

[recoil47]

Hints never work with me. :)

I do like that idea actually. Id be curious to see how many people use that. For me, that is perfect, because I want as much video quality as possible, but I'd like to retain menu functionality.

It sounds like doing it this way will let menus work, while allowing me ot strip off unneeded audio tracks and extras (which I never watch).

Ill try it thanks!

[recoil47]

Raster,

I am attempting to do this, but the way Shrink seems to work is that the only way I can remove stuff is to use it in re-author mode...however if you do that, menu functionality is destroyed. So really using it, then using Big3, doesnt allow you to keep a working menu (with the options you did keep) as far as I can tell.

Did I miss something?


<edit>

I am attempting to "strip" off the previews and extras by converting them to still pictures in Shrink to see if this works. They will be there, but won't take up nearly as much space. Better than nothing I guess.

Other suggestions for a way to strip off this unwanted stuff but retain menus for the Big3 process?

[D3s7]

To be quite honest... your probably not going to find much support on howto dothat... we (the authors of the big3 apps) do not support or incourage butchering or ripping out material even if it saves a few extra bits for the main movie....

However, if you insist ondoing that.. check out vobblanker....

[Raster]

Originally posted by recoil47
I am attempting to "strip" off the previews and extras by converting them to still pictures in Shrink to see if this works. They will be there, but won't take up nearly as much space. Better than nothing I guess.

Other suggestions for a way to strip off this unwanted stuff but retain menus for the Big3 process?

Converting the removed assets to still pictures enables the menu system to remain intact. Another way would be to remove the asset completely. If you do this, than you have to take care of the navigation stuff so that things will still work properly.

Take a look at VobBlanker to remove the asset completely. It's a little more involved and I would suggest reading it's help file.

After processing you will have to recreate the DVD ISO file to process with the Big3new.

Edit: I see I answered this a little too late.

[recoil47]

D3s7 and Raster, I'll look into this program and I will see if I can get it to work.

And to D3s7, I realize that those behind the Big3 really support keeping an entire DVD intact...but you also gotta realize that many people have *ZERO* desire to have to FFWD or SKIP past a bunch of previews for movies that in 6 months won't even be valid previews anymore.

I *HATE* that DVDs have started putting that stuff in before a movie. That used to be a huge plus for DVDs and now they are just like VHS used to be in that regards. I appreciate your desire to keep the original content of the DVD intact....but I really don't believe previews fall into that catagory.

[Zeul]

I am implementing a feature in NuMenu4u that will allow you view the decrypted menu vobs and choose which ones to keep. This will not be designed to remove parts of the menu, but will be designed to remove these startup trailers and warnings and other crap. I have a disc that I can't even skip pass the trailers, now that annoys the hell out of me.

[influenza]

I agree that those unskippable preview videos are pretty annoying and removing those are absolutely no problem.

[Raster]

Originally posted by recoil47
I *HATE* that DVDs have started putting that stuff in before a movie. That used to be a huge plus for DVDs and now they are just like VHS used to be in that regards. I appreciate your desire to keep the original content of the DVD intact....but I really don't believe previews fall into that catagory.

I do not consider previews part of original content either although I do keep the movie trailer or TV spots if included. I will remove things I do not need like languages I don't speak and will never keep a letterbox version if included on the same DVD. I prefer wide-screen only. Everything else I pretty much keep.

My 3 year old kid had to go through about 15min of previews on a Disney DVD every time he played it because he did not know about pressing the menu key to skip them. It's a shame that they take advantage of kids and some adult’s ignorance to push their products on them. It's like you are buying their advertisements!

[recoil47]

Many previews these days do not let you press the menu key to get directly to the menu. At least on my Denon I get the "NO" symbol in the corner of the screen. SKIP does seem to work though...

[D3s7]

This thread has got way off topic....

lets get it back on track