H.264 for the end-user

[Maximus_G]

A very simple question.

What is the easiest way for the end-user to watch *.mp4 files containing MPEG-4 AAC and AVC streams, created with the latest software like Nero Recode and others?
Is there any free program pack for this, like K-lite and others?

[thegeby]

Zoomplayer with a late ffdshow. Do a search for more details.

[bond]

Originally posted by Maximus_G
What is the easiest way for the end-user to watch *.mp4 files containing MPEG-4 AAC and AVC streams, created with the latest software like Nero Recode and others?
Is there any free program pack for this, like K-lite and others?maximus plz make yourself familiar with the rules again (especially rule 1, use search)
to make it short for you: read the mp4 faq (to which i also point in the nero digital info thread, which you obviously also didnt read)

Originally posted by thegeby
Zoomplayer with a late ffdshow. Do a search for more details. - ffdshow is useable in any dshow player, not only zoomplayer
- ffdshow nor zoomplayer offer a mp4 parser, without which you cant play .mp4 files on a dshow based player

moved to software player forum

[KpeX]

The easiest is probably VLC or mplayer, which support such files out of the box. (they are non-directshow players) However unless you're using recent CVS builds you may have problems with b-frames in AVC and other features.

If you want to go the directshow route there are several alternatives, bond's stickies will help you out.

[Maximus_G]

Originally posted by bond
[B]maximus plz make yourself familiar with the rules again (especially rule 1, use search)
to make it short for you: read the mp4 faq (to which i also point in the nero digital info thread, which you obviously also didnt read)
Well, i've read all of that before posting, but... i'm sorry, there is no _direct_ answer to the question.

Let's look at that FAQ thoroughly. Most end-users use DShow-based players, so...

12) How can i play MP4 files?
as one of the big advantages of MP4 is interoperability and being an open standard (license free!) there already exist a lot of different tools supporting it on as good as all systems including Mac, Linux, PocketPC and of course Windows:

1) if you want to play any multimedia file in a directshow based player (for example media player classic, bsplayer, zoomplayer or the crappy windows media player) first of all two things are needed for playback:
- a splitter/parser filter, which splits up the container file into the included streams (audio, video, subtitles) during playback
- a decoder filter, which decodes the encoded streams (for example ffdshow, 3ivx, CoreAAC)
btw. the only reason why you don't have to install a splitter for AVI is that it is already installed on windows by default

there are some packages available, which include such filter:
- 3ivx has the advantage that it can be used together with alternative decoders like ffdshow or CoreAAC (binary), make sure that the "allow unsupported decoders" option is ticked in the 3ivx splitter. 3ivx handles MP2, MP3, AAC, ASP but NOT AVC in MP4!
- EnvivioTV handles advanced content/BIFS (sample), AAC, ASP and AVC in MP4
- Moonlight offers a MP4 splitter able to handle MP3, AAC, ASP and AVC, together with ASP/AVC decoders
- Dicas' mpegable, supports RTP streaming, AAC, ASP and AMR (.3gp audio) decoding
- Nero Vision Express's dshow filter support AAC, ASP, AVC (subtitles, chapters and multiple audio streams only in Nero Showtime!)
- Ligos' LSX-MPEG, Simple Profile Video only, Demo limited to 30 days


First of all, it's not clear in the statement "there are some packages available, which include such filter:" - _what_ filter they do include. Splitter/parser or decoder? Or both? And it's not clear if they are free of charge or not. And there are no names, so for example i don't know what i should download from Moonlight site since there is no software called "MP4 splitter".

So that's the point of the question - what filters exactly should the end-user install? Concerning they should be free, simple enough in configuration and support AAC&AVC made by new encoders like Nero Recode.

That FAQ is good, but still there is a mess.

I guess this question could take its place in the "MP4 FAQ" thread.

[bond]

Originally posted by Maximus_G
First of all, it's not clear in the statement "there are some packages available, which include such filter:" - _what_ filter they do include. Splitter/parser or decoder? Or both?first of all you didnt ask for a dshow based solution, but for "What is the easiest way for the end-user to watch *.mp4 files containing MPEG-4 AAC and AVC streams, created with the latest software like Nero Recode and others? Is there any free program pack for this, like K-lite and others?"...

And it's not clear if they are free of charge or not.well as good as all are free of charge and by the few which are not free i normally write that they are not free...

And there are no names, so for example i don't know what i should download from Moonlight site since there is no software called "MP4 splitter".two things:
1) there are names and there are links to where you can find the tool
2) what about using search to find out more info? the faq is a guiding point listing the existing solutions, not a step-by-step guide

[t_2]

MEDIA PLAYER CLASSIC

Is a fantastic program! I think it provides the best playback options for end users. I'm no expert, but let me justify my opinion:

You can use a freeware CD launcher (like Compact Disk Autolauncher 2.1), so that the end user need only insert the CD into the drive. Then the launcher window appears and you can have several buttons in case you have more than one clip on the CD or one movie with several different audio tracks or subtitles in different languages. This means putting Media Player Classic (hereafter "MPC") on the CD, which solves another problem, because your end user may not even have a player installed or know how to use it. MPC is less then 2M. I have used it to play Xvid + ogg VBR + subtitles in an OGM container with no problems. How?

MPC doesn't need to be installed! It can be launched in a DOS like mode with commands such as what file to open, additional audio or subtitle tracks, and you can even import filters without having them installed on the playback computer!!

For OGM files you don't need a splitter because it is internal to MPC. You need a DirectShow decoder for ogg audio. Where to get it. Install the RadLight OGG decoder on your computer, use Graph edit in the media render mode to playback the media you are interested in and see what filters it uses. Use a filter manager to show you where the filter is for RadLight it was in c:\program files\syster32 and the file name was "RLVorbisDecoder.ax" Copy that file out of there and save it somewhere. Now do the same thing for the Xvid DirectShow decoder and your run command for the media player should be as follows: (I'm doing this from memory, so don't quote me.)

(path)\mplayerc.exe "your_movie.ogm" /play /sub "(path)\subtitle_file.smi" /filter "(path)\RLVorbisDecoder.ax" /filter "(path)\XVid.ax"

EDIT: After /play use /fullscreen

Remember all paths must be relative NOT ABSOLUTE. For some reason I counldn't get the "sub" and "filter" commands to work unless I first had "play"

Also, for subs you have to have a button on the launcher window such as "MISSING SUBTITLES?" and then tell them that the renderer must be changed in MPC. Under view>options>Playback>output you neeed to select VMR7 (Renderless) in the DirectShow group.

This solution is great because you are no longer bound by media/player /codec/filter limitations. All you need is a Win32 PC that's fast enough for the resolution you want to play. I used the windows 98&Me version of MPC because it works fine for me under XP as well. If some end users are running Linux, then use a media container that is Linux friendly. I use subtitles in smi format because MPC doesn't care but Windows media player does (In case someone just has to use that player, though I can"t imagine why.) MPC displays subs 100 times better than Windows Media Player.

Now for the Question at hand: AVC in MP4. (I understand that Nero doesn't use standart Mp4 subtitles. They mux them in as a general stream and therefore only their player can access them.) Newer builds of FFdshow will decode both avc (x264) and acc audio, so theoretically you should only need to include that filter on your CD and load it as above. I have not tested this yet, but I don't see why it shouldn't work. Also, you don't need to save in mp4 with this solution, but if you still want to then you will need to load a mp4 splitter. Mpegable offers one for free, but I don't know if that applies to any and all uses. Again I really want to give this a try myself, but to date I haven't had time to test the mp4/avc/acc thing yet. Rest assured, the MPEG4 ASP/ogm/oggVBR works great.

Hope this helps.

[celtic_druid]

ffdshow uses registry enteries to store settings such as whether it decodes h.264 or not.

Better I would think would be to put mplayer on the CD.

[t_2]

Quote from celtic_druid:

"Better I would think would be to put mplayer on the CD."

My post was so long, it was easy to miss that part of it>
"This means putting Media Player Classic (hereafter "MPC") on the CD"

@celtic_druid

AFAIK Media Classic Player doesn't have an mp4 splitter, or does it? Also, I must confess I don't really know what the registry is or where it is, but, when you say that ffdshow saves info about what to decode, doesn't that mean to an .ini file in c:\program files\ffdshow ? If so wouldn't it be enough to copy that file along with ffdshow to a folder on the CD? I'm not home so I can't experiment yet, but any advice you can give would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[bond]

mplayer is not media player classic ;)

[t_2]

Quote from Bond: "mplayer is not media player classic"

The version I downloaded has the executable as: mplayerc.exe

[celtic_druid]

I was refering to mplayer as in mplayerhq.hu which I think is a better option for an autorun CD.

[t_2]

@celtic_druid

OK, I get it, we were talking about different programs.

Could you explain why mplayer is better? (I've never used it, but just had a look at the download and it is pushing 7M, whereas MPC can be had at 1.3M + filters, etc.)

[celtic_druid]

1.3MB means a packed EXE for MPC. No reason why you can't pack mplayer, however it will still be bigger than MPC.

The reason why I say mplayer is better is because it has internal decoders, parsers, etc. for just about everything. It supports mp4, it also supports AVC decoding. Also like MPC it can make use of external filters if required (eg. Real Video9).

[t_2]

Re: Mplayer - One drawback I can see is that it doesn't have an windows interface.

BUT, I haven't been able to get an ON CD copy of ffdshow.ax to decode AVC.

[nexx]

A version of MPlayer with a basic interface is available here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89921

Packing wmplayer.exe with UPX brings it down to 2.6mb

Another more comprehensive interface wrapper is here (with a badly chosen name of mplayerc):
http://mplayerc.sourceforge.net/

If you can track it down (maybe links on the mplayer page) - there are working versions of gmplayer for windows, however the interface is still rather buggy. But this would be a good solution, as you can set up a good skin (the default one is ugly imo) and have it autorun.

[t_2]

@nexx

Thanks for the tip! I downloaded from the first link. I liked the fact that it didn't need to be installed, but it had jerky playback at scene changes. The player from the second link, played the x264 avi (no b frames)with no problems but has an installer. Also thanks for UPX.