NuMenu4U and DVD ReBuilder [Archive]

wmansir

10th February 2005, 01:00

Zeul has been generous enough to start integrating DVD-RB support into the excellent NuMenu4U DVD menu compression program. This thread is intended to help track down and eliminate any bugs related to NuMenu4U's integration with DVD-RB.

This thread is not to be used for NuMenu4U's core development discussion, such as general errors, suggestions or feedback not related to DVD ReBuilder. There is a thread for general NuMenu4U discussion stickied in the Big3 Forum (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=66). The current thread is here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89505), but is subject to change with later releases.

Previous discussion on this topic can be found here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88853).

Zeul

10th February 2005, 01:28

Anyone reading this for the first time: NuMenu4u requires Scenarist to be installed or if you have donated to receive VIP status then Muxman can be used instead (either the free version or the VIP version)

Zeul

10th February 2005, 01:45

For all RB users
ReBuilder will fail if you are running NuMenu4u straight from the disc and not an ISO image. NuMenu4u will copy over the remaining non-menu files itself, which will leave the CSS encryption intact. I am working on a new build that will use DVD Decrypter so removing this restriction.

survivant

10th February 2005, 16:57

that's a good news. So with Numenu we will be able to convert Pal menus to NTSC menus. I can reencode the video with Procoder. The audio, still no easy solution :(

Can I use Procoder to output the audio in wav format and use a third party software to reencode the wav to ac3 ?

damian_dimitri

13th February 2005, 22:20

@Zeul,

is that a mounted iso or just a iso ripped to hdd

ty

Damian

Zeul

13th February 2005, 22:57

A mounted iso is needed

Zeul

14th February 2005, 02:01

I have released a new version with important improvements for Rebuilder users:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=610301#post610301

damian_dimitri

14th February 2005, 08:01

good morning

ty for the good work

Zeul

14th February 2005, 22:16

HanSolo00

14th February 2005, 23:10

Zeul, great work... I've already tried it on a disc and it worked so well I plan on using it (instead of Shrink) to compress those bloated menus on all my backups from now on. I'm getting roughly 60% menu size reduction while keeping menu bitrate high enough (3000kbs) for no visible loss in quality--and using CCE 5-pass VBR, is much better visually than Shrinking the menus.

Can't wait to try a PAL->NTSC menu conversion.

Thanks!

Zeul

15th February 2005, 00:23

HanSolo00

So much praise :cool:
Thanks for the feedback.

jdobbs

15th February 2005, 00:39

@Zeul

Let me know if you need anything from me. :)

Zeul

16th February 2005, 21:05

@jdobbs

Well i'm not sure really - my understanding is that at some point Rebuilder will do menu compression itself. However until then, i dunno...
Thinking out loud, but maybe some commandline support - so Rebuilder is started automatically, and instead of changing the ini, perhaps a switch for the path etc etc.

My biggest PITA though is scenarist.

I am looking at ways of demuxing direct from a folder instead of an iso image. This is more important now as I believe that more and more people using Rebuilder or the 'big 3' are working straight from the disc and not an iso. Doing it this way doesn't allow dvd decrypter to remove these new pesky encryption methods. Thanks to Angelus I have come across one where the disc has 15 VTS sets, but only 13 are listed in the VIDEO_TS.IFO. Hopefully this sort of thing that none of us can predict would be removed by dvd dec, removing some of the errors we all experience.

Zeul

19th February 2005, 01:48

new build
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=610301#post610301

Zeul

21st February 2005, 20:04

This may not be apparant, but to use force NuMenu4u into Rebuilder mode, you must set the Rebuilder path under Default settings and then press 'enable rebuilder support'. This will open up Rebuilder with the correct working directory when NuMenu4u has finished, and will also copy all the non-menu files into the VIDEO_TS folder (working dir) with DVD Decrypter, so any copy protection or CCS can be removed.

brashquido

27th February 2005, 08:42

I've tried using NuMenu4u 2.04 with DVD-RB 0.77 for the first time to try and reduce the 500MB menu in Finding Nemo. I think it is more likely that this is just a PEBCAK issue, but I can't seem to get DVD-RB to mount the VIDEO_TS directory created by NuMenu4u once it has finished. Another question, if you are only using DVD-RB, do you still need Scenarist installed for it to work?

Zeul

27th February 2005, 10:45

Yes you still need Scenarist. Does Rebuilder not 'see' the files in the VIDEO_TS or what?

brashquido

27th February 2005, 21:44

That'll do it then, as I don't have Scenarist installed.

JollyJoker

5th March 2005, 17:49

Can someone tell me what the best setting for this program are?

Now i encode with 2500 average bitrate 6 passes CCE, Q Factor 45.

Is this a good setting or is there a better one ?

Zeul

5th March 2005, 19:43

JollyJoker
Personally I always use multipass with CCE and 4 passes. Ave bitrate 2500. Q factor is only used for 1 pass.

mpiper

11th March 2005, 02:59

I understand that this needs Scenarist.

What scenarist is this? The only one I know of is Sonic Scenarist, which is mucho dinero! Is there another one? Or a feature limited demo, or what?

Thanks,
Mike

HanSolo00

11th March 2005, 03:38

Bitrate used depends on the menu--I've seen some that have so much motion (like the rainy menu in 'Basic') that they look awful at less than 3600Kbs... because the menu segments are so short that VBR isn't effective as it is on longer movie segments. Other menus may only need 2500, if they aren't too complex.

Most main movie cells are much longer and have busy and slow parts, so you get better bitrate allocation, which is why VBR works better on longer segments. With those short menu bits, you pretty much have to try a bitrate, encode/test it, and repeat until it looks good.

mrpiper: Sonic Scenarist is required for the DVD authoring component of NuMenu4U's processing.

artoor

11th March 2005, 09:22

Sonic Scenarist is required for the DVD authoring component of NuMenu4U's processing.
Hmmm... it's rather a pity... maybe Zeul will change it in the future ;) (if it is possible)

mpiper

11th March 2005, 20:06

This is just a bit depressing.
I own Adobe PhotoShop, Premiere, Encore, Audition, Nero, CCE and a bunch of other programs. I like these little GUIs that save effort on what are basically repetitious, almost batch-type actions, such as DVD Rebuilder. But I am not wiling to buy another expensive program that I will never use except as an encoder engine for a free (but really nicely designed) program.

I just did a quick internet search. do you know how hard it is to find a reseller in Texas for this? What is the current retail price on it?

Another thought, Would one of the other Sonic DVD authoring programs work for this?

Mike

Zeul

11th March 2005, 22:49

I am working on using muxman instead, but it is in its early stages.

TuRiSOft

14th March 2005, 06:46

I noticed that using a given bitrate for compressing menus results in some cells with average q=14 , others with av q=4 , others with av q=1 and so on (I usually use av brate=2550). Why don't use something like DVD-RB algorithm , i.e. a percentage reduction.
For example I would like to choose 70% reduction and NuMenu4u , depending on original size and nr. of frames in a cell, decides its own target bitrate automatically!
Is it possible to implement?
Or we can also choose the target bitrate and NuMenu4U , depending on total frames of the whole menu cells , and the original size of each one , can assign everyone of them a target bitrate .
This only to have same quallity results on almost all menu cells.
Thanks in advance!

HanSolo00

14th March 2005, 11:13

Originally posted by mpiper
I just did a quick internet search. do you know how hard it is to find a reseller in Texas for this? What is the current retail price on it?

Scenarist 3 Professional is in the $5,000 to $35,000 (USD) range, the higher end including hardware. The target market is professional DVD authoring shops... not hobbyists.

You can find a local dealer through the dealer locator on the Sonic site at http://sonic.com/resellers/locate/default.aspx. There is one in Dallas, TX.

As long as donations continue to support the project, I suspect re-encoding of the video stream of menu vobs will eventually be incorporated into DVD-RB. Until then, you can always pre-process with Shrink to compress large menu vobs as needed (or NuMenu4U at the moment, if you have Scenarist.)

jdobbs

14th March 2005, 11:30

Reencoding menus is in the near future. Hmm... for the price of one copy of Scenarist I could to it a lot faster... :D

Zeul

14th March 2005, 20:16

HAHA :D

TuRiSOft

3rd April 2005, 19:41

I'd like if the great NuMenu4u from ZEUL would have something like "Dinamically Assign Cells Bitrate". That's because everytime I Re-encode a menu w/it (I like to use it with dvd-rb support since it is available) I have to try on and on until find a reasonable quality/bitrate target. It will be a good thing to know the original bitrate of the VTS menu Cell , then it can find and suggest the user a reasonable (in terms of quality) bitrate -for example using a routine like the one used to find Q factor in DVD-RB- , final asking the user to choose an average bitrate for re-encoding , assigning the cells an amount of B/R depending on its original one.

I know it's not so easy to implement and most of us don't know what to do whit this , but for people like me , who spent hours on searching the better quality , it would be great.

Zeul , please consider this only a little suggestion , I love the results of over 1 year (or more) of hard work , and I never dubitate you just did your best (as same as jdobbs , in fact) . Words are not easy for someone (like me) not english (it tooked me about 1/2 hour to write down this) , but I have to give to all of you all my appreciations and ,last but not least , I love this great community of Doom9 , wich gave me the opportunity of learn , at least , a bit more of english writing and reading.

Bye to all!!!!

Zeul

4th April 2005, 18:42

I have been thinking of something like this, it just hasn't been a priority. A replacement for scenarist is :D

Zeul

8th May 2005, 20:27

I have released a new build that includes some improvements for rebuilder users:

option to open a folder as source instead of iso images,
muxman can be used for authoring (if you are a VIP user)
choice of where to put the new menu files - into the source folder ready for rebuilder or copy over the remaining files etc etc

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89956

Zeul

10th July 2005, 23:17

New build available

the phoenix

14th July 2005, 13:43

hi
i'm looking for a guide to use numenu with rebuilder, any adress ?
thx

Zeul

14th July 2005, 15:10

use the help file, that comes with numenu. It will tell you the exact setting to use in numenu. When RB opens up at the end, use as normal

the phoenix

14th July 2005, 18:12

thx i'll do that

Zeul

15th July 2005, 23:55

Please note there is an updated build, that corrects some errors.

Delphin

21st July 2005, 05:47

I am working on using muxman instead, but it is in its early stages.

It would seem that the open-source freely available "DVDauthor" is ideal for the type of menu re-authoring done by your application because it has a simple XML based scripting control language and can already handle both simple single VTS projects and much more complex multi VTS projects including DVD Virtual Machine register control and scripting.

It's a simple WIN32 console app. you just write the XML script and then call the DVDauthor.exe application with the name of the XML script file.

There are a lot of applications which already automate the DVDauthor engine and fairly complex menu structures seem to be possible.

If you want the latest WIN32 binaries to experiment with you can grab them already compiled from . . .

http://www.videohelp.com/~gfd/edcounter.php?file=download/dvdauthor-0.6.12-alpha-2992-GfD.zip

or get the source at . . .

http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/

There are already several frontend GUI's for DVDauthor, two of the best Win32 frontends are . . .

Gui for DVDauthor (source available)

http://www.videohelp.com/~gfd/

and

DVDauthorGUI . . .

http://www.videohelp.com/~liquid217/dvdauthorgui.pl?p=news

(tips PDF document at DVDauthorGUI site shows scripting examples for complex multilevel "play-one" or "play-all" menus in DVDauthor using DVD virtual machine registers)

The documentation on the home page is thin but there is a forum at . . .

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=13261

Also the DVDauthor project includes sources for DVDunauthor (note "un"-author) which will supposedly disassemble a standard already authored DVD into primitive streams and a DVDauthor compatible XML control file (which should give you some hints for your menu-2-DVDauthor XML code generation).

Just a thought . . .

Zeul

21st July 2005, 10:07

Zyphon

21st July 2005, 10:54

Yeah I think Muxman is the way to go, could someone please be kind of enough to post a screenshot of Muxman VIP edition as I use DVD-Lab Pro and was thinking of upgrading from the free version to the VIP version of Muxman and I can't find any screenshots of it to see its interface.

It would be appreciated. :)

Zeul

21st July 2005, 11:56

The GUI is no different from the Basic version - however there are additional screens that are accessed during processing. Check out the Help file, it has detailed info about the VIP parts & screenshot of the main button stripping interface.

Zyphon

21st July 2005, 12:04

Hi Zeul,

Thanks for the info I shall check it out and read the readme. :)

Delphin

21st July 2005, 15:05

I have tried DVDAuthor. The main problem is that I recreate the Menu entirely, including all the command structures, but DVDAuthor does not support all of the GPRM values. Now that muxman is available, and does support everything i have thrown at it, i see no reason to add a third authoring solution.

Yes I see your point, 3 of what DVDauthor refers to as 'G' registers are reserved for internal operations. I think the 'S' registers are only restricted based on player limitations, but, I would agree that overall the XML scripting interface is geared toward DVDauthor calling most of the shots with minimal user input.

Of course the full C language source for all the DVDauthor components is available so you could strip out the lower level stream muxing code from the XML parser code and do pretty much anything you want.

The code is sparsely commented but seems to be very logically laid out, and development is still going on so there should be someone that can help answer questions about the DVDauthor internal module parameter passing.

The only advantage to this would be that you could build an very clean stand-alone application, with all the required authoring/muxing code compiled right into your NuMenu4U app.

The MuxMan code must be moving pretty fast, because when I looked at it only last month, it was buggy and could barley produce anything resembling a functional DVD (of course that wasn't the 'members only' version).

So you have obviously seen a more advanced version than I did.

If MuxMan development is moving that fast, all the more reason to go in that direction:)

Anyway, as I said, just a thought . . .

Regardless of how you go, I be happy to see you come up with an alternative to a program that less than 0.0001 percent of the DOOM forum members can afford to buy, but which a disconcerting LARGE portion of the users seem to admit to USING (how do they manage that, do you suppose?) :confused:

Zeul

21st July 2005, 17:44

Well Muxman is now at a stage where full dvd authoring is a reality. If you have the VIP version of NuMenu then muxman is used. Even if you only have the free version of muxman, NuMenu can still use this and create a complete Menu.
With regard to incorporating DVDAuthor - although a possibility - it still requires that mplex being used to multiplex the video & audio first. DVDAuthor just fills in the Navigation Pack details. Mplex though, does not create fully compliant VOB files, Muxman does.
So unless the entire theory behind DVDAuthor is changed (ie it multiplexes itself), I see no benefit.

the phoenix

8th August 2005, 21:54

hi,

got a problem, numenu runs well but after completion... nothing, it doesn't open rebuilder.
i've set has in the help file but i say he help file is not that clear to me.
any guide somewhere ?
zeul any id of what is happening ?
thx

Zeul

8th August 2005, 22:38

hmm
The help file seemed clear enough to me (except for the scenarist settings - i will amend that).

The settings required depend on whether your source is an actual DVD, an image mounted with Daemon-tools or a decrypted folder on your hard drive.

Choose the path to rebuilder and select the option 'Open Rebuilder'
Under scenarist tab ensure that option #4 (import, compile and close) is selected.

If your source is a DVD / image then you want copy option #3 and select 'Use DVDDecrypter for copying'

If your source is a folder on the hard drive and you want this folder left intact then you want copy option #3

If your source is a folder on the hard drive and you want this folder to be used by Rebuilder then you want copy option #2

what version of Rebuilder are you using?
what is your source, and what is the Rebuilder path?

the phoenix

8th August 2005, 23:12

thx zeul

i use rbpro 0.93.2, numenu is 2.0.19
the source is an image mounted with daemon.
rebuilder path is c:\program files\dvd-rb pro\rebuiler.exe
the thing that i don't have scenarist installed, is it the source of the problem ?

Zeul

8th August 2005, 23:13

Yep it certainly is. Scenarist is used for reauthoring unless you are a VIP user in which case Muxman is used instead.

the phoenix

8th August 2005, 23:19

ok
is there a version of numenu that works with rebuilder without scenarist ?

Zeul

8th August 2005, 23:20

nope, 'fraid not. Scenarist or Muxman is needed

the phoenix

8th August 2005, 23:30

fine
i installed scenarist, now in the scenarist option, what sould i uppercase ?
thx

the phoenix

9th August 2005, 18:48

well... doesn't work.

Zeul

9th August 2005, 19:51

well... doesn't work.

That has to be the most helpful response I have ever seen.

Judging by the amount of ppl who have it work for them, i suggest user error and see no reason to offer any further advice.

jel

10th August 2005, 05:14

the pheonix,

what you have to understand is that zeul has invested a LOT of time/effort into developing numenu4u, and when you have clearly made no attempt to learn anything what-so-ever about the program, then only provide limited responses to help, it can be ...well ... frustrating to say the least.

in future, please take the time to post concise reports on your problems and the steps you have tried to rectify them.

now ... go to : scenarist options > scan for installed scenarist versions

this is necessary for when you have installed scenarist AFTER installing numen4u OR if you upgrade versions of scenarist.

j

the phoenix

10th August 2005, 19:55

i do understand zeul feeling, that's why i didn't respond, for sure i have a problem, i scanned for scenarist and num4u found it. i guess the problem is frpm scenarist and not from numenu but at the moment i don't have any film to test on.
my main problem is that scenarist runs strangely, the window doesn't appear so i don't know what it is doing and i don't find a log.
i used numenu before, i've been using the big3 method for over 2 years i guess, but don't have the courrage anymore to go threw it so numenu and rb should be the solution for me.
but as i said i have a problem, don't know wich one because it is difficult to copy what's in the windows and i don't have anything from scenarist.

in the numenu scenarist option i have selected tje default one, is that correct ?
thx

jel

11th August 2005, 01:32

default option (import, compile, and close scenarist) is the preferred option, although if your problems persist, me may try the 'pause numenu and run scenarist manually' option.

but before we try that, we may need a little info first:

do you have 'minimise scenarsit on import' selected?
do you have ' minimise scenarist on compile' selected?
- as both these options would account for you not seeing scenarist being run.

i would also select 'display scenarist automation log' for debug use.

and finally, what version of scenarist have you installed?

cheers
j

rohangc

30th October 2005, 20:56

Hi. I am about to use DVD-RB with NuMenu4U for the first time. Apart from telling NuMenu4U where DVD-RB is installed, what other options do I select? Do I simply set up NuMenu4U according to the Big3 guide? Thanks.

Zeul

30th October 2005, 23:51

If you read the help file it explains what options are needed for RB compatability mode. Don't forget Scenarist is needed.

rohangc

31st October 2005, 05:29

Thanks Zeul. Keep up the great work.

rendez2k

23rd November 2005, 11:07

As a newly registered VIP user, is there any benefit of using the Muxman VIP version over the free one (speed, features ect.)?

jdobbs

23rd November 2005, 14:07

Did you mean to say "Rebuilder" instead of "Muxman"? From the way the thread is going I really can't tell?

Zeul

23rd November 2005, 15:02

I think he means the VIP version of muxman (ie 0.16) instead of 0.14 The newest version (0.16) will be faster, because 0.14 can't do multiple segments, so each vobid is muxed seperately and then numenu will add in the button information. Using 0.16 will enable numenu to create a full script, and will be much faster. Just make sure that the correct version is set in the VIP options of numenu.

jdobbs

23rd November 2005, 16:00

Cool.

rendez2k

23rd November 2005, 17:10

Yup, sorry guys - I did mean muxman 0.16! Of course, I am already a VIP memeber of DVD Rebuilder!!

rendez2k

23rd November 2005, 18:26

Sorry, one other question - does NuMenu4u tell you the before and after sizes of the DVD or menu anywhere (or space saved)?

Zeul

23rd November 2005, 18:57

Being a VIP member of numenu, set the option to strip vob assets, this will then show all the info you want at the appropriate time

rendez2k

23rd November 2005, 19:04

Being a VIP member of numenu, set the option to strip vob assets, this will then show all the info you want at the appropriate time

Brilliant - must have missed that!

laserfan

23rd November 2005, 19:58

Could someone clarify for me please: is Scenarist a requirement for using NuMenu4U, or is MuxMan (paid version) a fully-functional alternative i.e. no Scenarist needed?

Not clear, and I don't want to DL & install nm4u just to find this out. TIA.

Zeul

23rd November 2005, 22:39

Scenarist is required. However, if you are a VIP Numenu member than muxman can be used as an alternative.

rendez2k

23rd November 2005, 22:58

laserfan, I think it would be cheaper to become a VIP memeber of NuMenu4u and use the free Muxman than use the free NuMenu4u and pay for Scenarist!

laserfan

23rd November 2005, 23:59

Ok, I now understand that paying for NuMenu4U means one can use MuxMan and doesn't need Scenarist. I was struggling just a bit with the Queen's English! ;)

On the strength of this, I DL'ed and installed NuMenu4U and I would recommend to anyone who is curious about this program that they do the same--the Help file is very good indeed (should be put-up on your website Zeul by way of advertising the program). Thanks guys...

Zeul

24th November 2005, 00:48

@laserfan
Good idea - i might just do that :D

rendez2k

26th November 2005, 13:32

Sorry if these are obvious, buts heres 2 things I may have missed....
Can the menu audio be removed all together and can a motion menu be made into a still menu? Its also working great with DVD-RB :)

Zeul

26th November 2005, 18:15

No to both questions

rendez2k

26th November 2005, 19:56

Any plans to add these features in the future out of interest?

wmansir

26th November 2005, 20:20

jeanl

27th November 2005, 08:00

Both of those functions are available with MenuShrink, which was created for exactly that purpose (Motion->Stills). It's fast, free, easy to use and very reliable.

If you just want to selectively "Still" a particular menu page (and leave others as full motion video) then you can use VOBBlanker.

You can also do that in menushrink... Since version 2.2, you can use the preview to preview menu cells, and decide to "keep" the ones you'd like to keep animated, or "shrink" them to still them... But thanks for the nice words about menushrink ;)

jeanl