Decoder Versions

[jdobbs]

All,

There have been a lot of reports lately ranging from OPV prediction failure to disc stuttering and complete failure on DVD-RB's part that have been attributed to the use of alpha, beta, and RC version of decoders.

Please -- before you post a problem with DVD-RB, please go back to a "safe" version of the DGDECODE.DLL or MPEG2DEC3DG.DLL and ensure the problem is truly related to DVD-RB.

It's a good thing that you are testing the decoder and reporting back to Neuron2 -- but not when you are trying to make a backup you wish to keep!

For those who upgrade their decoders to alpha, beta, or RC versions just to get something newer -- you are taking a big risk.

Thanks!

A version that is know to be stable can be found here (http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Decoders/dgmpgdec110.zip).

[Rockas]

Now I wonder if I made a mistake including version 1.1.0 with the installer :(
I've been busy with other personnel issues and I didn't make any backups on the last two weeks so I haven't tested that version :(
Does this version work with Rebuilder or not?

[jdobbs]

v1.1.0 should be fine -- it's what I use and I haven't had any problems with it.

[Rockas]

Just to make sure... I'm refering to the "DGMPDEC 1.1 final" released on 26th January... is that the one you're using?

[Guest]

Version 1.1.0 is deprecated by the author himself. :)

IMHO, 1.2.0 RC3 is very stable and reliable.

[Rockas]

Originally posted by neuron2
Version 1.1.0 is deprecated by the author himself. :)

IMHO, 1.2.0 RC3 is very stable and reliable.

I won't argue that but why does RC versions are giving wrong Q values?
And there are some reports of malfunction with QuEnc 0.59 (beta2) when used with Rebuilder... any clues?

edit: by the way... never got the chance to say this... THANK YOU for that fantastic tool.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Rockas
I won't argue that but why does RC versions are giving wrong Q values? Do you mean on the Info display of DGDecode? Nobody has ever reported that to me. Why don't you post a bug report in the DGIndex forum? It will receive prompt attention. Your post should provide everything I need to duplicate the issue. If it is not that, then you would need to seek support from the QuEnc people. I can't think of anything that would have changed in the actual video output.

And there are some reports of malfunction with QuEnc 0.59 (beta2) when used with Rebuilder... any clues? Sorry, no. What kind of malfunction?

Just a thought... For a tool such as RB, it would be a good idea to release beta versions when you include new versions of bundled components. It's just a sad fact of life that even "final" versions can sometimes sneak through with serious problems. Then when the components are proven at their new release level, you can go final with your new bundling.

[wmansir]

Rockas was referring to this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89604) where using the latest betas caused DVD-RB's one-pass encoding predictions to fail.

Approximately half way down the first page a user reports that 1.2.0RC1 works, but RC2 fails.

A little back ground:

DVD-RB's OPV prediction works by creating an .avs script that uses "SelectEvery" to create a sample of the movie, it then encodes that sample with an estimated Q value (CCE's Q setting, not the MPEG quantization level, but similar in concept) and checks the output size. It adjusts the Q value and tries again until the Q value nearest the estimated required size is found.

The problem being reported here is that the Q value selected is always 1, which is the highest quality.

[Guest]

RC2 drastically changed the format of the D2V file. Is that being taken into account?

[jdobbs]

No. That's the reason I tell everyone not to upgrade the version supporting DVD-RB. It just uses the DECODER.DLL. I'll have to modify DVD-RB to support the new format. Unfortunately everyone grabs the newest version -- overwrites the old one, and makes the assumption DVD-RB is broken.

[Guest]

There's a version number at top of the D2V. You can read it and reject versions later than you support. I always bump it on a format change.

[jdobbs]

DVD-RB generates the .D2V itself as a part of it's scan of the source (I need a lot of the stream data for my processing). It would help if the DECODER.DLL had a version number.

[Guest]

DGDecode checks the format version number at the top of the D2V file and errors out if it is not what is expected for that version of DGDecode.

So, it seems to me that you can just write the D2V format version number such that any later non-compatible versions of DGDecode will error out.

[Axlemar]

Is there a quality difference between using the old decoder or the new one?

[Guest]

Sorry, your question is too vague to answer. What versions? What aspect of quality?

[Axlemar]

Will using a new version of the decoder give me finer detail or closer color or better size prediction or what? I guess what I am asking is what does the decoder do exactly and what do the newer versions do for rebuilder that the older versions didn't

[SlipGun]

I switched to dgmpgdec 1.2 but got the dreaded red text in my encodes (which basically said the D2V couldn't be opened). Went back to 1.1 and RB works fine again.

[hifreak]

Originally posted by SlipGun
I switched to dgmpgdec 1.2 but got the dreaded red text in my encodes (which basically said the D2V couldn't be opened). Went back to 1.1 and RB works fine again. I think it is more safe to use the 1.1 untill the problems are fixed I have had the same troubles about the "Mpeg2source error"

[Guest]

1.2.0 has fixes for better tolerance of errored MPEG files, and fixes in the postprocessing (deblocking and deringing). It's doubtful that either of those would affect you.

[Rippraff]

@neuron2

Would you be so kind to upload version dgmpgdec110.zip or dgmpgdec120rc1.zip on your page again? At the moment there's no newer working version for DVD-Rebuilder users. Maybe the archives directory would be the right place, thank you! :)

Cu Rippraff

[Guest]

Done. But be aware that they are deprecated versions.

[Rippraff]

Thanks a lot. :)
I know, but as long as there are no newer working versions with DVD-Rebuilder or vice versa ;) it's good to have the old ones.

Cu Rippraff

[wmansir]

You can also get DVD-RB compatible versions of Mpeg2dec and DGDecode in the "Install, Setup and Usage" sticky thread.

EDIT: D'oh, it looks like the DGDecode link is broken again.

EDIT2: I attached a zip that contains just the DGDecode.dll and a copy of the GPL to the forum and linked it in the setup sticky. I did this a while ago with Mpeg2Dec and it seems to work well in making sure people grab the right version.

I also noticed Doom9's guide was updated to 1.2.0. I think the guides are automatically updated with any new software release, which is unfortunate in this case. I set Doom9 an email letting him know of the problem so it should be fixed soon.

[Djuby]

I can't find dgmpgdec110.zip anywhere to download it. Can somebody post a link to it. I'll greately appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Djuby

[Rippraff]

@Djuby

No Problem => klick (http://neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/Archives/)

Cu Rippraff

[Djuby]

@Rippraff

Thank you very much. Which one is better to use, dgmpgdec110 or dgmpgdec120rc1?

Djuby

[Rippraff]

I don't know. I've never tried version 1.2.0RC1, jdobbs recommends version 1.1.0 therefore I use this one.

Cu Rippraff

[nyt]

Hi,
I have an .avs not returning any frame and I can't report a bug for the deprecated dgdecode 1.1.0. Any plans to support dgdecode 1.2.1? (maybe the error 6 reports will reduce as well since the new version is fixing some bad frames ;) ). Meanwhile I give it a try with the 1.0.1.2 to see if it helps.
thanks.

[Guest]

I'll support 1.1.0.

[jdobbs]

Just a note to everyone. To avoid confusion DGDECODE.DLL, version 1.1.0, will be included in the DVD-RB zip files (along the DGDECODE.HTML file) starting with DVD Rebuilder freeware v0.80.

[Carpo]

will dvd-rb support avisnyth 2.5.6 (yes i know its beta atm) when it comes out as i have read the author changed a few things and it has broken some scripts

neuron2 - has had to change his to get it to work with 2.5.6

will dvd-rb support the new version of DGDecode.dll in future releases

not trying to knock this prog as im a registerd pro user and it makes life much earier for backing up :D

[jdobbs]

I'll wait until it's stable and then give it a look.

As for newer versions of dgdecode.dll -- I'm not sure whether there is a reason yet. Is it faster or does it have any enhancements that would benefit DVD-RB? Remember, DVD-RB uses it only as a fundamental decoder. Since DVD-RB relies on AVISYNTH I'm trying to constrict all filtering/postprocessing to AVISYNTH.

[onesoul]

Some of the benefits would be for example in postprocessing: blindpp() bugfixes, and a new deblock() (by tritical) function introduced which is very good. These functions can be called outside the mpeg2source command, infact deblock is only called outside.

There are many bugfixes and probably some would benefit dvd-rb, maybe it's worth to check the history log file.

[jdobbs]

That's the just the point I was making. I want to limit the role of the decoder to decoding. Adding another layer of processing is unnecessary and more prone to confusion -- and there is very little that can't be done with AVISYNTH.

[Guest]

Originally posted by onesoul
a new deblock() (by tritical) The Deblock() filter is by 'Manao' (not 'tritical').

[jdobbs]

Now that I've looked at it... those actually are AVISYNTH functions aren't they?

[onesoul]

Originally posted by neuron2
The Deblock() filter is by 'Manao' (not 'tritical'). Oops :o
Now that I've looked at it... those actually are AVISYNTH functions aren't they? I am not sure what you ask. I only know that those functions can be loaded by dgdecode.dll. I think you can get deblock loaded by a separated plugin also.
That's the just the point I was making. I want to limit the role of the decoder to decoding. Adding another layer of processing is unnecessary and more prone to confusion -- and there is very little that can't be done with AVISYNTH. I haven't seen a better deblocker or deringer than those from deblock() and blindpp(), so if getting them all at once through dgdecode, that would be great.

[Wilbert]

Now that I've looked at it... those actually are AVISYNTH functions aren't they?
I am not sure what you ask. I only know that those functions can be loaded by dgdecode.dll. I think you can get deblock loaded by a separated plugin also.
So, the answer is "yes" :)

Btw, BlindPP is from dgdecode.dll and DeBlock isn't (probably from the mvtools package, but you have to check that), like neuron2 said ...

[Guest]

Deblock *is* packaged in DGDecode.dll (with full credit to Manao in the documentation).

[Carpo]

seeing as 1.4.4 has been released and does offer a load of fixes and improvements will it be inclueded (or any stable release before dvd-rb 1.0 is released)

[jdobbs]

No. Maybe by v1.10. But the version supported does everything DVD-RB needs -- so doing extra work for something that has no real benefit to DVD-RB (that I can see) would be way down on the priority list.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't upgrade to the new version -- as it may have lots of features that are useful -- it just means that for now DVD-RB will continue to use DGDECODE v1.10.

[Carpo]

i can wait :)

[jdobbs]

Also, just a note to everyone so it is understood. You can still install DGINDEX and use the new version DGDECODE that comes with it for other applications. DVD Rebuilder's installer puts the appropriate DGDECODE version in the DVD-RB directory and references it directly from there rather than the AVISYNTH plug-in directory. It does that specifically so it won't interfere with any other processes you may have in place that reference newer versions of DGINDEX/DGDECODE.

[Rippraff]

Just a note to everyone. To avoid confusion DGDECODE.DLL, version 1.1.0, will be included in the DVD-RB zip files (along the DGDECODE.HTML file) starting with DVD Rebuilder freeware v0.80.
Hi Jerry,

I just saw that there's no dgdecode.dll included in the last free version 0.94 (I'm not talking about the installer, which I never use but the update-only version ;)).
On the other hand Donald has removed version 1.1.0 from his side, I can't find http://neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/Archives/ anymore. :confused:

So, here's wmansirs link of DGDecode.zip 1.1.0 (http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=613629) (size 101 kb). :)

Cu Rippraff

[jdobbs]

Hmm... didn't notice that. I'll add it back on v0.95. I originally had decided to only distribute the installable version because of the number of problems people were having getting it installed properly, but then I got some comments of concern because it was too big. At the last minute I threw together just the update and must have forgotten it.

[FredThompson]

No. Maybe by v1.10. But the version supported does everything DVD-RB needs -- so doing extra work for something that has no real benefit to DVD-RB (that I can see) would be way down on the priority list.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't upgrade to the new version -- as it may have lots of features that are useful -- it just means that for now DVD-RB will continue to use DGDECODE v1.10.Homemade DVDs which include streams from some of the streaming MPEG2 providers would benefit from newer versions of DGDecode as switching field dominance is handled far more accurately now.

[Rippraff]

...but then I got some comments of concern because it was too big.
I don't care so much about the size but having already installed all the other stuff it's just unnecessary. ;)

Cu Rippraff

[jdobbs]

Tell that to the innumerable people who install it incorrectly and then send me e-mails or make posts saying it sucks. Go a few posts down in this very forum and you'll find one.

[Rippraff]

This shouldn't be any form of critics from my side! The only thing I wanted to say is that it's always a good idea to have an update-version for people who are familar with DVD-RB.
Go a few posts down in this very forum and you'll find one.
I've answered in this thread. ;) That was the reason why I searched my HD and found that dgdecode.dll is missing in the zip file. :cheers:

Cu Rippraff

[Voodoochild]

I'm using the 0.97 free edition, is there any way to upgrade the DGdecode.DLL.
when I used Latest version Encode time was 4 time Faster with VTS setting deen()...
BUT I couldn't see the video since DGindex version was different then the DGDecode.dll version.
Is there way to upgrade the DGindex as well...??
Many Thanks in advance.