PGCEDIT and NextPGCN

[ron spencer]

First off...wonderful prog....everyone knows I think that you can effectively make a trailing chapter by setting the NextPGCN for a movie to be the same PGC the movie is in. This ensures that the post commands are folowed.

My question is, why is this not used in practise? I checked 10 hollywood dvds...none use such a method...the methiod is amazing.

Is there a drawback to it? Just curious./

[Sir Didymus]

Just want to report some related findings...

It's the first time I see something similar, a title with a DVD structure very simple, composed by a single VTS, but with a complex navigation structure, many PGC and a lot of BOV on some of these PGC.

NO ONE SINGLE JUMP COMMAND WAS PRESENT INTO PRE or POST COMMANDS in the whole DVD, except the very first one, in the first play domain...

All of the navigation based on NEXT PGCN information...

Since I am now too addicted to PgcEdit (and lazy) to use IfoEdit just for changing the NextPGCN values, the simplest way I used for changing the navigation flow was to add some jumps into pre and post commands in order to get rid of some unwanted content, making a little bit "dirty" this very clean and lympid structure...

Am I right ? I mean I didn't see any way in PgcEdit to change the NextPGCN values, right ?

Cheers,
SD

[2COOL]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Am I right ? I mean I didn't see any way in PgcEdit to change the NextPGCN values, right ? Of course you can! just double click on any PGC to bring up your PGC Editor dialog and you'll see it in the top left section.

[Sir Didymus]

Wow!!!

Oh my God, using PgcEdit a lot, and...

I have to announce I discovered a totally new window in it, very rich and full of nice functions!!! :D

BIG Thanks 2COOL !!!

[2COOL]

Registering in Doom9 forum...FREE

Using PgcEdit...FREE

Reading Sir Didymus's response...


...PRICELESS

[blutach]

Due to SD and 2C, this thread has become a definite competitor in the thread of the month award - that's for sure.

Regards

[Sir Didymus]

:p

No, no, totally different awards: the other thread was competing for the one of January, this one is for February...

By the way hope r0lZ isn't reading this...

My gaffe should be very disappointing for him [as the name may suggest, I can easily understand -- now -- the Pgc Edit Window is really fundamental in PgcEdit, right ? ] :rolleyes:

Cheers,
SD

[blutach]

@SD

Yes...very right. You must have been tempted to delete your post LOL

Regards

[Sir Didymus]

No, sigh, sigh... :(

Much better leaving it intact as an example for lazy people (like myself) in order to teach the golden rule: first use your brain, then look at the f.a.q., then use the "search", and just in case all of these resources fail, then post......

[Dimad]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Just want to report some related findings...

It's the first time I see something similar, a title with a DVD structure very simple, composed by a single VTS, but with a complex navigation structure, many PGC and a lot of BOV on some of these PGC.

NO ONE SINGLE JUMP COMMAND WAS PRESENT INTO PRE or POST COMMANDS in the whole DVD, except the very first one, in the first play domain...

All of the navigation based on NEXT PGCN information...


Can you say what is the title of the disk? Would be interesting to take a look.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
NO ONE SINGLE JUMP COMMAND WAS PRESENT INTO PRE or POST COMMANDS in the whole DVD, except the very first one, in the first play domain... It's even possible (although not with PgcEdit, nor with IfoEfit) to suppress the FP-PGC. The playback will begin straight with the Title 1.

By the way hope r0lZ isn't reading this... Missed! :D

[Dimad]

Originally posted by r0lZ
It's even possible (although not with PgcEdit, nor with IfoEfit) to suppress the FP-PGC. The playback will begin straight with the Title 1.


?? Is it really possible? I don't think any video cell is allowed in FP-PGC.

[r0lZ]

Well, I really don't know much on that matter.
Some time ago, I received an email because PgcEdit (and IfoEdit) crashed systematically with DVDs created by a standalone recorder (dont' remember the brand). After some investigations, I realized that the recorder did not include the FP-PGC at all. The FP-PGC start byte was 0 at offset 0x84 in VMGM_MAT!
When this is the case, the players are apparently supposed to play the Title 1 directly.
Now, in such situation, PgcEdit pops up a dialog with an option to create a FP-PGC with a JumpTT 1, or exit immediately.
I have never seen this situation again, in commercial DVDs.
Maybe it's out of specs, but in this case, why is it a FP-PGC start byte offset in the VMG?

[Sir Didymus]

@Dimad
Can you say what is the title of the disk? Would be interesting to take a look.
It's "L'uomo delle stelle", PAL, R2; an italian edition that was distributed with newspapers...; quality is not so bad..., but it will be difficult to get it...

Anyway, the overall movie structure is this one:
http://img161.exs.cx/img161/3134/image13xz.th.gif (http://img161.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img161&image=image13xz.gif)
Root menu is in the PGC3, Scene selection is in PGC 6, there are three trailers of other movies (PGC 10, 11, 15) and a short extra feature (PGC 8)... All of this just managed through NextPGCN commands... Well, of course jumps through the menu buttons are present..., but all of the Precommand, Post Command and Cell Command sections of the PGCs are almost void...
?? Is it really possible? I don't think any video cell is allowed in FP-PGC.
Me too astonished...

But confirming...
Edit: I mean confirming both that FP-PGC is not allowed to have a corresponding VOB and that it seems in the specs it is not prohibited to have titles where first play PGC does not exist...

Of course, in these situations errors may occur when JumpSS or CallSS navigation commands are issued, referring to the not-existant PGC...

@r0lZ
Missed!
sigh, sigh !

[blutach]

I thought I read somewhere that FP-PGC could contain video but I could be wrong.

Have never seen one with video.

@SD - can't see any PGCs that have menu buttons. Or are you using an old version of PgcEdit?

Regards

[2COOL]

Originally posted by r0lZ
It's even possible (although not with PgcEdit, nor with IfoEfit) to suppress the FP-PGC. The playback will begin straight with the Title 1. Well, I have changed the default value of 1024 at offset 0x84 in VMGM_MAT to zero using IfoEdit and it played Title 1 in IfoEdit too. It supposed to play my main menu upon DVD insert.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by blutach
I thought I read somewhere that FP-PGC could contain video but I could be wrong.

Have never seen one with video.

@SD - can't see any PGCs that have menu buttons. Or are you using an old version of PgcEdit?

Regards

Hi blutach :)...

Well, almost sure FP-PGC can not contain video... Nevertheless the DVD specs are not available to me [think they are available just to few lucky people...]. My understanding is that First Play Domain is very special, and it purpose is just to manage the DVD behaviour at its insertion, linking to the other domains that actually contain the cells...

From Scenarist Manual:

First PGC, belongs to First Play Domain
- Optional; one per disc
- Links to the menu or title plays when the disc is inserted
- Can contain up to 128 Pre and Post commands


About my "strange" title...
1. Used PgcEdit 0.4.9.1
2. I think it is the right behaviour of PgcEdit not to show Button Over Video on the main window...

About point 2, please consider [as I have already deeply demonstrated... :D ] my expertise with PgcEdit is ridiculous...

Nevertheless think the reason is that since BOV information is just embedded in the navpack of the VOB files, it would be too heavy and time consuming [requiring to scan all of the DVD VOBs] to collect the BOV information just at the DVD opening time...

Cheers,
SD

[r0lZ]

To be clear: I have never said that the FP-PGC can contain video. I know there is no way for the FP-PGC to have video.
The 'special' DVD I described do not contain the FP-PGC at all. Therefore, as confirmed by 2COOL, the navigation begins directly with the Title 1 PGC (which obviously must have video contents).

About BOV:
The v0.5 of PgcEdit will have the BOV support. It is still in beta test, but seems to work pretty well.
The VOB parsing to find BOVs when the DVD is loaded is an option, so that you will not need to wait everytime you load a DVD. And the find BOV function is configurable (slow and accurate, or fast but may miss some BOVs.)
I will probably release a public beta soon...

Next step will be a menu button/BOV editor.

[jeanl]

Originally posted by r0lZ

Next step will be a menu button/BOV editor.
Can't wait! :)
Jeanl