Who wants to test a new MPEG2 encoder

[hank315]

Even without adding text it's an ugly thing for every encoder to keep the small yellow lines OK.
It's almost as ugly as your home page :D

[FredThompson]

Yeah, the yellow lines weren't an original part of the design at all. They were added to try to reduce the corruption from mpeg2enc.

Don't know it really qualifies as a homepage. It's more a place to put stuff that's linked to various posts. I never thought anyone would actually look at the page itself. Nice "nose shot", don't you think? Bet that hurt.

The puppy's cute, though.

[dragongodz]

the first time got a "movie not progressive" error, second time was OK.
Think I'm going to dump this check...
this can be avoided by adding
AssumeFrameBased()
to the script. to quote the docs
AviSynth keeps track of whether a given clip is field-based or frame-based. If the clip is field-based is also keeps track of the parity of each field (that is, whether it's the top or the bottom field of a frame). If the clip is frame-based it keeps track of the dominant field in each frame (that is, which field in the frame comes first when they're separated).

However, this information isn't necessarily correct, because field information usually isn't stored in video files and Avisynth's source filters just guess at it. AssumeFrameBased and AssumeFieldBased let you tell AviSynth the correct type of a clip.

so yes i would drop checking that for now since its not exactly reliable.
you would maybe want to add it back in if/when you support interlaced input though. then people would have to be told to make sure avisynth is told the correct information about the source though. :D

[FredThompson]

Now I'm thoroughly confused. HC only supports progressive input?

@hank315,

I've found the untextured, un-yellowed original Christmas present background. Will put it on my page and add links for the "invisible" files.

[dragongodz]

HC only supports progressive input?
well i am assuming thats what a message such as
"movie not progressive" error
means. also the fact that uing AssumeFrameBased() fixes that message kind of suggests it no ? :)

remember though that HC is a very young encoder.

[FredThompson]

I'm not complaining, just making sure I understand. "Clean" still frames is a HUGE benefit as is the quality of progressive encoding.

At the same time, I'm not that adverse to using hot pokers and a rack to "encourage" hank315's development of HC. :devil:

[dragongodz]

ok heres a couple of quick encodes of the cusstommenu.bmp and christmas png(i am not going to type the whole name :D).

script used
ImageSource ("custommenu.bmp").trim(1,1)
ConvertToYV12()

trim used to make it 1 frame long, otherwise ImageSource makes it 41 seconds long of course. :)
same script used for the xmas pic aswell.

encoded constant quant 1, dc 8, no custom matrix, with both HC gui and QuEnc 0.59beta2.
resulting .m2v's here
http://www.pcpages.com/dragongodz2/
click the "menu tests" link to download.

to view with MediaPlayerClassic do NOT use the internal mpeg2 decoder or use another program.

[Ebobtron]

HC only supports progressive input?I can only get this message from HC when I feed it field based sources.
Any frame based source works fine, so far.

I'm using AviSynth 2.55 and ImageSource() spits out frame based. Is it safe to say that FredThompson's version spits out field based from ImageSource()?

@FredThompson
I encoded your menu pages with HC and got great results even great red lines.
So follow ImageSource with "AssumeFrameBased()" in your script.


so yes i would drop checking that for now since its not exactly reliable. you would maybe want to add it back in if/when you support interlaced input though. then people would have to be told to make sure avisynth is told the correct information about the source though.All the interlaced sources I fed to HC Play great on my old TV. I tested HC encoding progressive and interlaced. Progressive encoding of interlaced material shows up big-time on the boob-tube, kind of like the reverse of interlaced on a progressive display.

[FredThompson]

Try as I might, HC still freezes on me right after I select the AVS file. Contents of the custommenu.avs are:
ImageSource ("custommenu.bmp").trim(1,1)
ConvertToYV12()Here's a screenshot of the directory:

http://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/HCTest.gif

If I launch HC_011.exe and select the avs file, the file selection window disappears, the area it occupied is left grey and HC freezes.

If I configure HC.ini as defined above and launch HC.exe (the updated executable), I get this status:

http://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/HCCLTest.gif

Something must be incorrect but I'm stumped. Would someone please take a look at this and help me find out what's wrong?

@Ebobtron, the source is a bitmap. I probably confused things by mixing discussion of single-frame encoding and replacement of mpeg2enc with HC in TyTool. Sorry about that.

[dragongodz]

Any frame based source works fine, so far.
well i got the warning from HC with an avi which i guarentee is progressive. so avisynth got it wrong once. :)
and yes i am using 2.55 aswell.

Is it safe to say that FredThompson's version spits out field based from ImageSource()?
no because using my script caused HC to freeze and not throw the "not progressive" error.

FredThompson - Ebobtron suggested and add AssumeFrameBased() to it aswell and see if that makes difference. it shouldnt but still needs to be tested. ;)
also what have you got in your avisynth plugins folder ? try removing everything except directshowsource.dll and seeing if HC gui still freezes.

[FredThompson]

Just tried both suggestions; "empty" plugins folder and AssumeFrameBased()

Neither stopped the crashing. Darn it!

[dragongodz]

hmm that is strange. and the script loads up ok in other programs, no error messages etc ?

the only other things i could think to try is set CPU in HC to MMX before loading the script or changing your avisynth version to the 2.55 release.

[Ebobtron]

well i got the warning from HC with an avi which i guarentee is progressive. so avisynth got it wrong once.
@dragongodz

Sorry, I was trying to say any source I fed HC. Not the source inside of AviSynth. When AviSynth's output is framebased HC works for me. Interlaced or progressive.

[Ebobtron]

I had HC crash on me and stay resident causing second instance to act up.

[dragongodz]

Sorry, I was trying to say any source I fed HC. Not the source inside of AviSynth. When AviSynth's output is framebased HC works for me. Interlaced or progressive.
ahh. yes thats why i suggested AssumeFrameBased() before aswell. :D

[FredThompson]

Appreciate the help, gents. Still odd that HC crashes on me. I'm moving over to QuEnc as an mpeg2enc replacement because interlaced source is important. This is all really for TyTool which is TV-based, sort of, in a way.

[Ebobtron]

From hank

Seems that people who are running anti-virus programs have trouble running HC, it could take a long time to start because the exe file is packed with UPX, some anti-virus programs don't like that.

So I changed the download version to a non-packed executable.
Just download it again and see if it helps...

Still the same link: http://hank315.dyndns.org/HC_011.zip


@Fred, did you catch this from Hank?

I got very strange behavior.

[FredThompson]

Yeah, I saw that but the files I'm using were downloaded today so that shouldn't be the problem. Script loads fine into VirtualDub-MPEG, TMPGEnc, and others so it's probably not an issue with AviSynth. I still think it's a parsing issue with the path to the bitmap as I described above. The command line version can't find the bitmap with an implicit (same directory) definition or wiht an explicit path. Weird.

[hank315]

New version, bug fix release.

A while ago Ebobtron reported flashing colors in the lower lines.
This only occurred for some resolutions, especially NTSC stuff.
This is fixed, also the "movie not progressive" Avisynth check is deleted.

get it at: http://hank315.dyndns.org/HC_012.zip

Thanks to Ebobtron for reporting it and testing the new version.


Still working on a new batch version which will have all options of this latest GUI version.

[LigH]

Looks nice. Works well. (Even the preview, and catching AVS error messages.)

But I wonder: Is it intentional that the 1st-pass takes much longer than the 2nd-pass? On my Duron 800: 2.0 fps vs. 6.4 fps. Do you re-use any information beyond framesize statistics (e.g., motion vectors)?

[hank315]

Do you re-use any information beyond framesize statistics (e.g., motion vectors)?Yes, motion vectors are re-used in the second pass.

[LigH]

Ah, I see - that huge *.dbs file in the source file directory.

[hank315]

Yes but it also contains the information about the GOP structure, scene change etc.
In fact the first pass sets the structure for the whole movie.

[Doom9]

@hank: seems your server is experiencing some difficulties. I guess I could add it to the software archive but I first need to get it..

[GooglyBear]

during test runs like this, does anyone have a custom video to use so we can test better? I only use a real dvd to encode and I don't like waiting 3-4-5 hours just to see encoding quality..

does anyone have a custom zip of something that isn't GB big to test encoders out on? Custom sample clip Would help greatly

:confused:

[dragongodz]

cut a section of footage from the dvd and test with that. how ? try just ripping a couple of cells with dvddecrypter, load the produced vob in dgdecode to produce .d2v, create .avs to load and decode the .d2v.

[kitsaros2000]

where can i find the comand line options for HC 0.12 ? Can someone list them ? Thx ! :)

[dragongodz]

where can i find the comand line options for HC 0.12 ?
0.12 is a gui only version. you will have to wait for the next CLI version, hank315 has said he is working on it.

[kitsaros2000]

thx for the info !
i will wait !
byez :D

[archrival]

Once I noticed that the pink lines were fixed with NTSC film, I decided to test this encoder fully. I first prepared it (Heat) with DVD Rebuilder, then I checked the rebuilder.ecl file and manually encoded all 52 cells, it took a while, but DAMN was it worth it! There is no way any other encoder would give me the kind of quality that HC has put forth. Heat is 172 minutes long, I normally disappointed with CCE's quality on movies this long, not with HC combined with the dynamic cell bitrate assignment that DVD Rebuilder gave me. I'm very happy, and I'm definitely willing to test some more.

[Ishan]

I did some HDTV to DVD encode with HC and all I have to say is : "WAWWW!!"
For a free encoder it totaly kicks ass, I don't want to use CCE anymore :) I havn't noticed any bugs so far, I'm mostly encoding PAL material.

[Frameserver]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Try as I might, HC still freezes on me right after I select the AVS file.

@Hank315
Nearly the same problem happens on my machine.
But it is definitly not a Avisynth problem.
All scripts work fine with Quenc/CCE/V-Dub/MPC and (strange,isn't it?)
HCenc non GUI Version . If I feed the same scripts into HCenc
GUI it freezes immediatly.
The only thing that works with the GUI Version is a d2v project.
But this is not very useful.
On the other hand.
The quality of the test that I made using a d2v file was amazing.
So keep on going - nice soft ;-)


ps.: The test GUI from Amnon82 works fine with the same scripts.
Also this AutoCQ thing from Amnon82 (using HCenc) works fine.

[GooglyBear]

the real question is when will the next BATCH hc come out? as is the only one that really works with RB as is delivers those pink lines and they are a deal breaker :( so I'm guessing most everyone else is waiting for the next batch version to really start putting this baby to the test

[LigH]

From some debugging sessions done by 'katjarella', these details are suspicious:

- Do you write the preview video output directly into the video memory? If so: Instead, better use more compatible functions (because you don't do it so often, DIB functions shall be suitable, before trying e.g. DirectDraw).

- Do you really need WinSock DLL calls and "Network\SharingHandler" in an encoder? (Loading ws2_32.dll seems to provoke a crash.) Calling a website could as well be done using "ShellExecute". Don't act too complicated.

[Amnon82]

... maybe there will be another commandline-version of HCEnc ...

[LigH]

Several people would enjoy a new CLI version from hank315's HC encoder: Possible batch handling; neither preview nor networking code.

[DD51]

Originally posted by GooglyBear
the real question is when will the next BATCH hc come out? as is the only one that really works with RB as is delivers those pink lines and they are a deal breaker :( so I'm guessing most everyone else is waiting for the next batch version to really start putting this baby to the test

I'm definately one of those! I can't wait!
This encoders quality output is very impressive to me.

[hank315]

Coding of the batch version is finished, running tests now...

It's not a CLI version, it runs in a small window which shows input parameters, output stats etc.

It can use the old ini file, also takes arguments, arguments passed will have a higher priority than the ini file parameters.
Just create a .bat file and put in it what you want, additional options can be read from the ini file.

available arguments:
-i inputfile
-o outputfile
-log logfile
-ini inifile
-b average bitrate
-maxbitrate maximum bitrate
-profile fast-normal-good-best
-matrix --> as supported in GUI version
-aspectratio 1:1-4:3-16:9-2.21:1
-scene
-noscene
-interlaced
-nointerlaced
-tff
-bff


From some debugging sessions done by 'katjarella', these details are suspicious:

- Do you write the preview video output directly into the video memory? If so: Instead, better use more compatible functions (because you don't do it so often, DIB functions shall be suitable, before trying e.g. DirectDraw).

- Do you really need WinSock DLL calls and "Network\SharingHandler" in an encoder? (Loading ws2_32.dll seems to provoke a crash.) Calling a website could as well be done using "ShellExecute". Don't act too complicated.Would like to see some stats of this debugging session :)
The preview creates a bitmap in memory and uses a simple StretchBlt, all according to the "normal" windows rules.
Also there are no WinSock DLL calls or network stuff in the code.
It's all written in Fortran, the GUI also, data structures used and the dialog structure which it runs in can't be done in any other language, it also uses a different calling convention, maybe the debugger can't handle this :confused:

@Frameserver
Will have a look at the Avisynth freezing, could you be more specific please, which Avisynth version etc.

[DK]

that's good news

can't wait testing it

[DD51]

Originally posted by hank315
Coding of the batch version is finished, running tests now...

Aweswome news...I look forward to run some tests myself.

Thanks so much Hank315 and keep up the great work on this little puppy of yours.

[Shubin]

The program stops responding immediately after attempt
to load .avs file. The processor is P4, and it only
happens when CPU type is set to anything, except MMX/SSE.
This last setting works.

[Rickkins]

Am I missing something, or is there a way to use this with an .avi capture...???

And, I guess, if not...why not...???

[LigH]

HC requires YV12 input.

You may try an AviSynth script with the appropriate "Source" function (AviSource, SegmentedAviSource), and probably "ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)" (because your capture shall be interlaced).

[Rickkins]

Oh. I grabbed avisynth...haven't got a clue.
Oh well...guess it's just not for me.:(

[LigH]

@ Rickkins:

If you don't even dare to read the documentation installed together with AviSynth (at least version 2.5.5, to not be outdated), then you probably won't be able to enjoy HC.
__

@ hank315:

All that katjarella can offer right now, is this file:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/verglade8kihr/IWatch_HC_012.zip

IWatch_HC_012_XP.log: under Windows XP
IWatch_HC_012_W2K.log: under Windows 2000 (worked 1 time)
IWatch_HC_012_HANG.log: under Windows 2000 (crashed)

Same script, same AviSynth version (one of the newest, probably newer than available on SourceForge, AFAIR). Crashes at: Process A18, Thread 384: Unload dll at 75950000

[katjarella]

Originally posted by LigH
All that katjarella can offer right now, is this file:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/verglade8kihr/IWatch_HC_012.zip

Referrer Error: (Sorry)
HC_012_XP (http://members.lycos.co.uk/verglade8kihr/IWatch_HC_012_XP.log)
HC_012_W2K OK (http://members.lycos.co.uk/verglade8kihr/IWatch_HC_012_W2K.log)
HC_012_W2K Freeze (http://members.lycos.co.uk/verglade8kihr/IWatch_HC_012_HANG.log)

[Rickkins]

Originally posted by LigH
@ Rickkins:

If you don't even dare to read the documentation installed together with AviSynth (at least version 2.5.5, to not be outdated), then you probably won't be able to enjoy HC.


Well thanks for playing.

Truth is,"First, you create a simple text document with special commands, called a script." is where it loses me. :eek:



I can do point and click, but creating scripts....just seems outta my league.

[Ebobtron]

@Hank315

From the beginning, up to and including version 0.10, I noticed that HC would always miss the target average bit-rate on the low side. I assumed that missing the target was a known problem and did not pay it much attention. While testing version 0.10 I had the opportunity to encode an off the air capture of a black and white film that ran 1:32:10 (165720 frames). With the encoder set at 6000 and 8000 I got a m2v file somewhere between 2.2 and 2.6 GB. Sorry I have no other details from that encode in my memory. I passed it off to the work in progress way of thinking and left the rates and target rates to the other more knowledgeable people working the thread.

I back checked the change logs and other than “many bug fixes” and “minor changes in bit-rate control for bit-rates < 2000 kb/s” I can find no reason for the change in behavior of your encoder. Not that I’m complaining.

I don’t do much backup and most of my encodes are fifteen to twenty minutes. After looking at the DVD RB thread I thought I’d run a long test again.

I ran my black and white movie thought HC version 0.12 over-night and again I have my mouth hanging open.


----------------encoder settings----------------

----------------profile: NORMAL
-----------------frames: 1 165720
--------------framerate: 29.97
-----------aspect ratio: 4:3
-----------bitrate Kb/s: 6370
------max. bitrate Kb/s: 8000
----------------restart: no
------------closed gops: no
--------------VBV check: yes
------scene change det.: yes
-------------interlaced: yes
-----------goplen,B-pic: AUTO
-----------dc_precision: 9
------------scan method: ALTERNATE
--------------time code: 0 0 0 0
--------------------CPU: AUTO
-----------------matrix: MPEG

-----------source stats-----------

nr. of frames in source: 165720
-----------width*height: 720*480
--------------------fps: 29.97
nr. of frames to encode: 165720
-------frames to encode: 1 - 165720
-movie length to encode: 1:32:10 (5529.53 s)
----est. outfile length: 4299695 kB

Actual out-file length 4,400,578,560 bytes / 1024 = 4,297,440 kB
Estimated = 4,299,695 kB, a 2255 kB miss, 0.0524% 5 hundreds of one percent. I asked for 4,300,000. How close could it get with profile set to Best?

Is it possible you fixed this and didn’t notice? Could it be related to the math problem causing the flashing lines? Wow!

Hard to think of this encoder as a “work in progress”.
Five hundreds of one percent is like 52 miles out of one hundred thousand. With accurate encoding and dead on scene detection.

This isn’t great work Hank, it’s wonderful work.

[Xesdeeni]

Originally posted by Rickkins
Truth is,"First, you create a simple text document with special commands, called a script." is where it loses me. :eek:

I can do point and click, but creating scripts....just seems outta my league. Come on! You can write e-mail right? It's just not that much more complicated.

First, run the AVISynth installer.

Now, run notepad. The easy way is to click Start|Run... and type in 'notepad'. You can also go to the directory where an AVI is stored, and right click, choose New|Text Document. Go ahead and rename the text file to 'Test.avs', and answer "Yes" to change the extension from TXT to AVS.

Now you type in something really complicated like:AVISource("test.avi")Now you save that file. If you used the Start|Run... method, give it the name 'test.avs' and put it with the AVI file.

Now you can pretend the AVS file is an AVI file.

I recommend opening it with VirtualDub, but MediaPlayer will open it as well. Use anything just to see that it works just like an AVI file.

Simple, huh?

Xesdeeni

[LigH]

Important: When you save the script, and enter the filename (e.g. "test.avs"), make sure that the file type is set to "Any file (*.*)"; else you would risk that the "Editor" adds another extension, and the file is indeed saved as "test.avs.txt" - this would not be intended!

Finally, you can open the *.avs script file in many applications and media players, as if it was a *.avi video file. Most applications ask Windows to read the video file (they don't really read AVIs on their own), and AviSynth - as registered filehandler - returns video, as if an uncompressed AVI would have been read.

More you can read in the AviSynth forum of this board, it is no longer necessary to discuss that topic in this thread!