Automatic use of NuMenu4U ?

[rduck]

Hi,

I was just wondering if there are any plans to include an option to run NuMenu4U with DVD Rebuilder - just like in DoItFast4U ??
I know, that NuMenu4U requires Scenarist (among other) - but if running NuMenu4U before the actual compression of the disc will make more space available for the main movie (=better quality).

Right now I have to run NuMenu4U manually, and then copy the converted menu-files and the remaining original files from the DVD into a folder on my harddrive - and then run the process from there. It would be nice, if DVD Rebuilder was able to run NuMenu4U, and then use the size of those new files in the calculation of how much reduction is required of the rest of the disc....

What do you think ??

/Rduck

[brashquido]

Good in theory, but due to the extra (non freeware) software required would have limited value I think.

[marpada]

NuMenu4U needs a mounted iso image. This somehow limits its use.
You must have the iso, then you have the files with the recoded menu, and then you may want to process it whith Shrink, Remake, etc, that a lot of HD space !

Besides, even when Zeul has made a great great job with NumMenu, I think still have some problems, because of the complexity of scenarist scripts, extractic subtitles, we now jdobbs approach is quite better!

Originally posted by rduck
Hi,

I was just wondering if there are any plans to include an option to run NuMenu4U with DVD Rebuilder - just like in DoItFast4U ??
I know, that NuMenu4U requires Scenarist (among other) - but if running NuMenu4U before the actual compression of the disc will make more space available for the main movie (=better quality).

Right now I have to run NuMenu4U manually, and then copy the converted menu-files and the remaining original files from the DVD into a folder on my harddrive - and then run the process from there. It would be nice, if DVD Rebuilder was able to run NuMenu4U, and then use the size of those new files in the calculation of how much reduction is required of the rest of the disc....

What do you think ??

/Rduck

[robert980]

where is the problem to do this manually?
extract into ISO, use nm4u and after this like usual the rebuilder. I do it like that and had no problems.

[jhmac]

If you are wanting to compress the menus to get a little better quality out of the movie, whay don't you give RBOpt a try and see if that helps you any. I never liked using NuMenu4U myself...

jhmac

[marpada]

Originally posted by robert980
where is the problem to do this manually?
extract into ISO, use nm4u and after this like usual the rebuilder. I do it like that and had no problems.

time & space

If you want it to remove some content with DVDRebuilder, you need to create a new copy of the files,... so your HDs begin to collapse.

It's not the end of the world, but it's clumsy

[jdobbs]

Let me reemphasize that DVD-RB is meant to be a full disc backup system. Other than possibly supporting movie-only backups -- there are no current plans to add menu editing functions.

[rduck]

My original thought was to get the menu's re-compressed as well - in order to optimize space for the "main" movie (and not to remove extras and other stuff - or edit the menu's, except for re-compression to a lower bitrate).

RBopt can help me by modifying the encoding parameters, bit only on the "normal" parts (not the menu's) - but it would be nice if this was possible directly in DVD RB (e.g. says for VTS_01 is should use automatic bitrate, and for VTS_03 and VTS_05, the average bitrate should be e.g. 2000 kbps). - Sort of a mixture between DIF4U and DVD RB - that would really be nice !! :D

[dannyv]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Let me reemphasize that DVD-RB is meant to be a full disc backup system. Other than possibly supporting movie-only backups -- there are no current plans to add menu editing functions.

So you are considering movie only backups. That is very good news.

[pg55555]

So you are considering movie only backups. That is very good news.

I would prefer to prioritize reducing menu size, by encoding or transcoding, is the same to me.

I like Complete backups, with menus and extras, although I do not mind the menus and extras to be clumsy quality.

My usual method is to compress menus with Shrink to the maximum and use Half D1 and Half Space for Extras, even tweaking a little with RBOpt, but keeping them.

It is nice to see, and a showing of RB advance, that the forum is moving away from bugs towards extra funcionality (and adaptations to new versions of the auxiliary programs: CCE 2.70, QuEnc 0.59, etc.) Although there is always the wrong installation post

jdobbs GOOD JOB

[wmansir]

Originally posted by jdobbs
there are no current plans to add menu editing functions.

Does that include menu compression? or is that still on the table?

[jdobbs]

I'm just talking about menu editing. Menu compression is a different discussion. Implementation of menu compression will likely happen, it is just a low priority -- because menu sizes large enough to actually make a quality difference in the movie content are relatively rare.

[Zeul]

As an update to this, i have added an extra ability within NuMenu4u, to provide ReBuilder support. Although limited it does the following: Opening the ISO as normal (I am looking at ways to remove the ISO limitation), Process as normal, On final processing update the IFOs as normal, and copy ALL remaining files into a new VIDEO_TS dir. This dir is then the source dir for ReBuilder. Finally ReBuilder is then fired up. I am doing some final testing now, so a rls is forthcoming. Are there any further suggestions?

Zeul

[Sir Didymus]

Hi Zeul!!!
Just want to state BIG appreciation for your excellent work with Numenu4U.

I am (very happy of) using your great application since some months.

Your last available build (the one supporting Canopus Procoder & CCE 2.7) is already matching very well with DVD-RB [of course this im my point of view, as a user of both applications...].

Especially happy earing you are working on a release supporting FILE MODE [many people, me included, are forced to build up ISO images ONLY for being able to use NuMenu4U].

Keep on with your great work!!!

Cheers,
SD

Edit: not properly a suggestion... It's that 'have been some times confused about RC nr, Version nr, Build nr... Cough, cough, the example of DVD-RB [progressive and continuous numbers for new releases, even for the "minor" ones] seems much more linear...

[Zeul]

Edit: not properly a suggestion... It's that 'have been some times confused about RC nr, Version nr, Build nr... Cough, cough, the example of DVD-RB [progressive and continuous numbers for new releases, even for the "minor" ones] seems much more linear...

yeah me too... :D

The problem with non-iso is that I can't use DVDDecrypter to demux the vob files. NuMenu is based on the output files that DVDDec produces, i am still experimenting with vstrip to see what it can kick out.

But the latest build should be available soon

[robot1]

@Zeul
Just a suggestion.
If you implement NuMenu4U in file mode, could you simply backup in a special folder the original files, and replace them with the final results of NuMenu4U?
In this way there is not too much disk space needed for an encode.

[Zeul]

robot1
My intention (if i can get the results needed accurately from vstrip) is for the the original disc to be ripped in file mode, creating a video_ts folder. This folder would then be source & destination. All temp folders would be inside the video_ts folder - jdobbs would this cause a problem? - and the original ifos and menu vobs relabelled as ....bak. The new files then transferred into this folder. So minimum disc space needed.
For the moment though, to not with hold a release it will be as i said earlier - needs to be an iso.

[TheSeeker]

I mean no disrespect by this so please dont misunderstand this post. I just want to know what the advantages of use NuMenu4U are? Because in my opinion there just doesnt seem to be that many huge menu files to warrant an application whose sole purpose is to compress menu files. Wouldnt shrink work just as good? I mean I realize the difference.... One uses cce or procoder (hence an encoder) as opposed to shrink (a transcoder), but is squeaking every last ounce of quality from menus really necessary? Unless it has some features I should be using?? Just curious. Always looking for ways to better my backup procedure.

[Zeul]

@TheSeeker
Don't forget that in Europe a lot of DVDs have multiple menu languages, therfore increasing the menu sizes a lot. Menus >500MB are the norm. Also more and more DVDs have 'dummy cells' incorporated in the VIDEO_TS.VOB, NuMenu4u removes these also. A good example is the Lion King. Video_TS.VOB is > 500MB reduced to a few KB after processing. And i haven't included the other menu reductions! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would rather have an automated approach to removing these unneccessary cells & languages instead of searching each VOB and PGC with IfoEdit. Every bit of extra bitrate I can use on the title & extras is worth the effort.
Of course if you butcher discs then I could understand your point :rolleyes:

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by Zeul
The problem with non-iso is that I can't use DVDDecrypter to demux the vob files. NuMenu is based on the output files that DVDDec produces, i am still experimenting with vstrip to see what it can kick out.

But the latest build should be available soon

Vstrip ? --
Did you consider to use PgcDemux ? It have CLI support, demuxes by PGC and/or by cell id [I think], the author is very nice and active guy [hopefully] available to customisations [if justifyed by good reasons] and so on...

@TheSeeker
My opinion is really coincident with the one expressed by Jdobbs few posts above: "menu sizes large enough to actually make a quality difference in the movie content are relatively rare"... Nevertheless it happens sometimes you get Menus with hundreds of megabytes... In these circumstances...

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Zeul
robot1
My intention (if i can get the results needed accurately from vstrip) is for the the original disc to be ripped in file mode, creating a video_ts folder. This folder would then be source & destination. All temp folders would be inside the video_ts folder - jdobbs would this cause a problem? - and the original ifos and menu vobs relabelled as ....bak. The new files then transferred into this folder. So minimum disc space needed.
For the moment though, to not with hold a release it will be as i said earlier - needs to be an iso. Not sure I understand completely... but it probably would be a problem. Right now DVD-RB still needs the original .VOB files during rebuild -- it pulls the audio/subtitle streams from the original as it remuxes.

[TheSeeker]

I dont know if this would work but couldnt you add something like: If "Use NuMenu4U" option is checked then use VTS_01_0.vob.bak as original files instead of VTS_01_0.vob

[Zeul]

@jdobbs
To clarify any misunderstanding, the ifo is completely updated with the new menu info from the scenarist created ifo, the title info is untouched ;) . I assume that rebuilder just copies over the *_0.VOBS and parses the ifo for the title information. There would be no reason for rebuilder to fail . My concern was if there were folders inside the VIDEO_TS folder (eg VIDEO_TS/Temp) would this cause an issue? Or if the original menu files (IFO,BUP,VOB) had been renamed to ..IFO.BAK etc (and still resided in the VIDEO_TS folder - the NuMenu generated files would be in their place) would the .BAK files cause a problem. Are any scans taken of the folder w/out specifying a file type? In this case then the .BAK files would be problem.

@TheSeeker
What is the point of creating new menu files then telling ReBuilder to use the originals(ie the .BAK)?

@SD
I had never even considered PGCDemux - good shout, i will have a look. Thanks

[Rockas]

@Zeul
Yes... I think PGCDemux does everything you need... When I need to, I use it to compress the menus (extreme rare situations)... never let me down.

[Zeul]

PGCDemux doesn't support vob/cell splitting according to the forum posts.

[jdobbs]

My concern was if there were folders inside the VIDEO_TS folder (eg VIDEO_TS/Temp) would this cause an issue? Or if the original menu files (IFO,BUP,VOB) had been renamed to ..IFO.BAK etc (and still resided in the VIDEO_TS folder - the NuMenu generated files would be in their place) would the .BAK files cause a problem. Good point. DVD-RB counts all the files/sectors in the source directory. It then subtracts the video and excluded audio to determine the necessary bitrate... so yes, it would have an impact to have the .tmp files etc. in the directory. I could adjust that, I guess.

[Zeul]

@jdobbs thanks for clearing that up.
For now, I have released a build that uses the iso as input, so there will be no conflicts. If and when i enable folder input I will ensure that only relevant files are in the VIDEO_TS folder to avoid ReBuilder conflicts.

thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89505

[Rockas]

PGCDemux doesn't support vob/cell splitting according to the forum posts.

Looks like that is already on the TODO's list of the Author :)

[rduck]

Originally posted by Zeul
As an update to this, i have added an extra ability within NuMenu4u, to provide ReBuilder support. Although limited it does the following: Opening the ISO as normal (I am looking at ways to remove the ISO limitation), Process as normal, On final processing update the IFOs as normal, and copy ALL remaining files into a new VIDEO_TS dir. This dir is then the source dir for ReBuilder. Finally ReBuilder is then fired up. I am doing some final testing now, so a rls is forthcoming. Are there any further suggestions?

Zeul

Just tried to run 2.0.0 with "The Big 3" - During menu processing I get an error saying something like "PULLDOWN.EXE HAS BEEN REMOVED" and that errors most likely will occur...

I can see, that the NuMenu4U has a revpulldown.exe - but pulldown.exe ? And where should it be located ??

/RDuck

[Zeul]

ooops
I forgot to change that - it is historical and will have no effect on the outcome.

[marpada]

It would be great if both Zeul and jdobbs could share their knowledge to boost their applications. Those kids have done a hell of a job anyway, can you imagine what can they do working together?

The main problem with NumMenu4U I think it needs Scenarist ( not a cheap tool) to reauthor the menus, it could use jdobbs's rebuilding engine.

On the other hand DVD-RB could be enhanced used to reencoded menues, Zeul knows a great deal about this.

Just my two cents, I don't want to start a flame war between Rebuilder and Big 3 camps :)

[wmansir]

I have created a sticky on this subject here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89743). Please continue any discussion regarding NuMenu4U and DVD ReBuilder there.