DVD plays fine on PC but jittery on set-top player

[_cashel]

Just as the title states it. This happens with eveything I've captured, w/ files coming from Virtualdub to ATI's MMC that encodes straight to mpeg2, so the bitrates for the videos range anywhere from 2000-5000 VBR. I used DVD-Lab to author the DVD, followed the guide here on the site on what to set all the options to, and burned the dvds. The playback is perfect on the computer, no sync issues or choppyness, but when I stick the dvd in a set-top player, both the audio and video are very jittery. What *really* sucks is that I was running low on hard drive space this weekend when I was burning all of these, so I deleted the movies immediately after testing the disks on my computer :angry:. I've only now been able to try these out on the TV. So for future reference, what do I need to do to fix this very annoying problem?

[_cashel]

I may have fixed the problem. It turns out that the files captured to MPEG2 through ATI's MMC aren't jittery like I thought. The menu w/ the audio IS though. The audio I'm using for the menus as well as movies capped in virtualdub is in the AC3 format. Maybe if I lower the bitrate on the audio files that will fix it? Or maybe use another format alltogether?

edit: encoding the audio to AC3 @ 224 instead of 256 seems to have fixed the jittery audio, however the video is still slightly jittery, and I'm not too sure why. I encoded it in CCE SP @ about 4500 VBR w/ a minimum at 2000 and a max at 9000. The videos are interlaced, if that makes any difference, and the dvd's still play fine on the pc.

[Arky]

max 9000kbps is WAAAY too high for DVDR, which is why it plays fine on your PC but chokes on your standalone player. Reduce your peak bitrate by a couple of mbps and it should then play satisfactorily on your standalone player.


Arky ;o)

[Paulcat]

I converted a few PAL tv episodes, with a constant bit rate of 5000 and I have the same problem. The video doesn't jump from frame to frame but it seems almost to vibrate (hard to describe the look!), I also burned to a DVD-RW (no point in wasting a DVD if it didn't turn out).

It plays fine on the PC...

[_cashel]

Originally posted by Paulcat
I converted a few PAL tv episodes, with a constant bit rate of 5000 and I have the same problem. The video doesn't jump from frame to frame but it seems almost to vibrate (hard to describe the look!), I also burned to a DVD-RW (no point in wasting a DVD if it didn't turn out).

It plays fine on the PC...

that's actually what it was doing to me, I just described it as jittery. The guides I've read say to have a max rate of 9k though, so I guess they're wrong? This is all VBR btw, not CBR, and the average is set to 4500.

[_cashel]

I dropped the max bitrate to about 6000, and that seems to have mostly fixed the problem. I'm still getting that jittery/vibrating/however you want to describe it though. It seems to really only show in the areas with lighter colors, like clothing and people. Just as an example, I'm working with burning some of the Battlestar Galactica shows I've captured onto DVD. Everything is running smoothly, but I'm getting that jitteryness whenever there's a human taking up most of the screen (with a large contrast difference between the person and the background). It's kind of hard to explain, but I hope you understand what I mean. Do I need to re-encode the videos AGAIN this time at an even lower max VBR?

[Sir Didymus]

@_cashel

I don't want you assume I insinuate DvdLab may have some authoring troubles, but... :sly:

At your place I would perform a very basic test:

1. Demux with some tool just the video and audio of the stuttering title
2. Remux the m2v, audio and subtitle assets with another authoring package [i.e. MuxMan by mpucoder]
3. Burn and see.

Or, in alternative, use a different authoring program...

This will not solve your problem, but you should be able to understand if the trouble is generated by the authoring or elsewere [in the encoding or in the burning]...

Cheers,
SD

P.S. With a single AC3 audio track the max allowed bitrate for the video [if the threshold is really respected by the encoder] may go up to 8000 Kbps and more...

[Paulcat]

Hmm, maybe I will try a plain DVD ROM instead of the RW, since the READ speed of an RW is slower as well.

Yes, the total combined maximum bitrate is 9800 KBPs, but on a single layer DVD, that doesn't give a lot of running time...

[_cashel]

Originally posted by Paulcat
Yes, the total combined maximum bitrate is 9800 KBPs, but on a single layer DVD, that doesn't give a lot of running time...

Right, but the actual video is not @ that bitrate. I just have the max and minimum set to 0-9k, and the actual bitrate for the video averages around 4400, w/ everything, probably 4600.


I'll go ahead and try another program later today though. Maybe that'll fix my problem.

[mpucoder]

I use DVD+RW and have successfully used them at max bitrate.

[influenza]

I usually encode my assets at a max bitrate around 9000. Usually between 8000-9000 or so. I never have any problems with this.

[Paulcat]

Just an additional comment. I did another PAL to NTSC conversion yesterday using a ConstantBitrate of 6080, and had no problems this time. I read somewhere the bitrate should be evenly divisible by 16.

Now whether doing that, or because I used a DVD-R and not an RW this time gave me a good video, I don't know, but it's something to think about...

[Sir Didymus]

That's funny.

Hi Paulcat, :)
Want to state it respectfully, but feel like we are now talking about the phases of the moon...

1. If the encoder you are using is not supporting prime numbers, you may consider changing it...

2. If the physical media is not damaged and of good quality, DVD-R or DVD+R or DVD-RW or DVD+RW is exately the same, from the point of view of the standalone player, if the different formats are properly supported, and this should be indicated in its operating booklet, or just labeled in front of it...

3. The reading speed of a standalone player is something which is specifyed by the DVD standards, so all the media, in order to be compliant, should be readable at 10,08 Mbps which is the DVD muxrate.

4. Higher speed may be a feature for burning...

[_cashel]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
At your place I would perform a very basic test:

1. Demux with some tool just the video and audio of the stuttering title
2. Remux the m2v, audio and subtitle assets with another authoring package [i.e. MuxMan by mpucoder]
3. Burn and see.

Or, in alternative, use a different authoring program...


I ended up using another authoring program: TMPGEnc DVD Author, and I'm still getting the same problems, so it can't be a dvd authoring issue I guess :confused: .

Now I'm a little confused with that test. What exactly am I demuxing? The avi file? The extracted files from one of the dvd's? I'm only getting this problem with the avi files (that I haven't done any real editing to, just cut out commercials)captured from VirtualDub. I encoded these files to MPEG2 elementary streams. The files are already demuxed by then, and that's what I use to make the dvds. The videos I recorded using ATI MMC 9.3 were encoded straight to a regular MPEG2 file. I took those files, had DVD-lab demux them, and proceded to create the dvd menus and what not. There were no problems with these files at all.

Any more thoughts? Suggestions?

[Sir Didymus]

Hi _cashel,

Sorry if I added some "noise" instead of providing useful suggestions. To say the thruth, I didn't read carefully your original post... I was making the hypothsis that a jerky playback on standalone may be due to some authoring troubles. In this case, the idea was to demux one or more PGC from the authored DVD, trying to rebuild its assets using a surely compliant muxer, and seeing if these remuxed parts play fine or not... Unfortunately, at least for the moment, MuxMan is very powerful, but it is in the stage of development, and menues, BOV, etc. are not actually supported...

Just for a better understanding:
- you have some m2v + ac3 assets obtained with some capturing process...
- if you author these assets with a given authoring tool in the title domain they play fine...
- if the same [or very similar] assets are authored with the same tool for making menues, they show some trouble when played on standalones...

Is it right ?

Cheers
SD

[Paulcat]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
That's funny.

1. If the encoder you are using is not supporting prime numbers, you may consider changing it...

2. If the physical media is not damaged and of good quality, DVD-R or DVD+R or DVD-RW or DVD+RW is exately the same, from the point of view of the standalone player, if the different formats are properly supported, and this should be indicated in its operating booklet, or just labeled in front of it...

3. The reading speed of a standalone player is something which is specifyed by the DVD standards, so all the media, in order to be compliant, should be readable at 10,08 Mbps which is the DVD muxrate.



SirD,

(1) The encoder supports any bitrate I specify. I read in some OTHER forum that for good results it should be divisible by 4, and for best results divisible by 16. I have no idea if there is any validity to this statement!

(2) I didn't actually read the manual, heh heh. I am told that DVD+ is "less compatible" with some set top players than DVD-, or at least that used to be the case. I use name brand media, not the bulk pack crap, so I am not faulting the media itself.

(3) The read speed of RW media is slower than R media. Maybe my Sony doesn't like RW, who knows!

On my second, more successful conversion from PAL, I did make some changes in my setup in TMPGEnc. It read the format of the file as PAL, but I changed it to read it as if it was any old 16:9 video.

The bottom line is I fixed the problem, but don't know why the problem existed in the first place!