Some XviD questions - guide discrepancy & FourCC settings

[Digga]

hi there.

I used GK for a long time now with DivX, however, after the latest codec shootout I decided to switch to XviD.
I decided to use the new 1.1 beta1 compile by Koepi for 1CD rips, as it seems to be relatively save with the plus of some speedup.
I've read some guides about how to set up the codec (though I loosely followed this topic for quite some time).

Doom9's GK - XviD 1.1 Guide:
http://www.doom9.org/gknot-main4.htm
Crusty's Unofficial XviD FAQ:
http://ronald.vslcatena.nl/docs/xvidfaq.html

first of, I have some questions mainly about the Doom9 guide:
- the 'closed GOV' option is not present in 1.1, though it's still mentioned in the guide... does GK just doesn't show this or is the guide outdated?
edit: by reading the forum I take it that this option is now hardcoded(?). maybe it would be a good idea to update the guide then.
- do I suffer any loss or compatibility if don't use packed bitstream? the later guide doesn't suggest so, but Doom9's guide tells you to use it... I'm a little confused here.

general question: is the only drawback to VHQ mode 4 (opposed to mode 1) speed reduction (while quality is supposed to be better, at least not worse)?

now, it would be a big bonus if I could watch my encodes on a DivX capable standalone (simple profile AFAIK). while this is not mandatory I would really enjoy it if the required settings do not yield in a large quality drawback.
so, AFAIU I have to use FourCC DX50, with the aditional restrictions to not use GMC (which I don't use anyway), no QPel (is this right?), and max 1 consecutive BVOP. (do I have to use packed bitsteam also?)
do I understand this right?

FYI I plan to use these settings for 1.1 beta1 - 1 CDs Rips (2pass) - computer playback only:

Profile @ Level: AS @ L5
H.263 Quantization
B-VOPs with default settings
Motion search: 6 - Ultra High
VHQ mode 1 or mode 4
Chroma motion on
Turbo mode on
use VHQ for b frames too
Trellis Quantization on
QPel on
no packed bitstream
[all other option are left to default]

the only variable changes I would need to do AFAIK would be to set 'Maximum I-frame interval' according the the fps (i.e. 250 or 300) and maybe the above mentioned DivX compatibility settings.

cheers,
Digga


edit: formating errors and spelling

[Digga]

*bumb*

- do I suffer any loss or compatibility if don't use packed bitstream? the later guide doesn't suggest so, but Doom9's guide tells you to use it... I'm a little confused here. now, it would be a big bonus if I could watch my encodes on a DivX capable standalone (simple profile AFAIK). while this is not mandatory I would really enjoy it if the required settings do not yield in a large quality drawback.
so, AFAIU I have to use FourCC DX50, with the aditional restrictions to not use GMC (which I don't use anyway), no QPel (is this right?), and max 1 consecutive BVOP. (do I have to use packed bitsteam also?)
do I understand this right?

[Mentalmummy]

I do 700 Mb dvd rips in Xvid using Maximum VHQ and Motion settings and to be honest a typical 90 minute film takes me about two hours sometimes two and a half for slightly longer films on a 1.8 Ghz AMD with 256 Mb RAM if that helps.

Basically I would say that if you have a reasonably quick PC it`s a good thing to max these settings as it doesn`t slow down things that much really.

For a DivX standalone compatible Xvid I always use the DXN HDTV profile as that will make sure your video files are DivX standalone compatible (actually it`s for a HDTV setup I think but plays lovely on my old Yamada 6100) and in the debug section I set it to use the fourcc of DIVX simply because I`ve heard some players don`t like XVID as a fourcc although mine work okay with XVID fourcc.

If you use one of the DXN profiles it won`t allow you to accidentally encode using non DivX compatible settings.

One of the experts here could help more with the Qpel and stuff but I think that if you use anything but the DXN profiles then Qpel and GMC can be used but Qpel and Xvids GMC are incompatible with many standalone players.

If it`s any help my 2 pass settings which work on standalones are:

Profile: DXN HDTV
Adaptive Quantisation
Max Consecutive B-Vops: 2
Packed Bitsream
Closed GOV
Chroma Optimiser enabled (in Zone Options)
Motion Search Precision: 6
VHQ: 4
Use VHQ for B-frames
Chroma motion
Turbo
Trellis quantisation
Fourcc: DIVX

I used to get oversized files, I changed the overflow treatment numbers for the second pass to 5 / 10 and 16 to get the required size but unless you have the same problem and need to hit a specific filesize you probably won`t want to change these as they affect quantiser distribution.

PS - did you really mean bumb? Or bump :)

[Digga]

thank you very much for your answer Mentalmummy.
Originally posted by Mentalmummy
For a DivX standalone compatible Xvid I always use the DXN HDTV profile as that will make sure your video files are DivX standalone compatible
If you use one of the DXN profiles it won`t allow you to accidentally encode using non DivX compatible settings.ah, ok. I never saw that mentioned in the guides (maybe I didn't look hard enough), but that makes sense.
One of the experts here could help more with the Qpel and stuff but I think that if you use anything but the DXN profiles then Qpel and GMC can be used but Qpel and Xvids GMC are incompatible with many standalone players.if I select the DXN HDTV profile Q-Pel is selected automaticly and GMC is not used (but as I said, I don't plan to use that anyway). so is Q-Pel safe to use for most recent standalones? I read that quite some older players had problems with Q-Pel...

also, with DXN profiles, packed bitstream is still an user option... any consent on what to use, or does it also heavily depends on the type of standalone (chip)?
Max Consecutive B-Vops: 2I was under the impression that DivX standalones do only support 1 B-frame? Am I wrong or is this outdated?


I would be glad for any further information on this.

and yes, I meant "bump" :)

[Shinigami-Sama]

wel
iirc some stand alone can play medium-bitrate encodes with 2 b-frames but only one at high bitrates
mostly depends on your standalone
but you said these aer for pc playback only in your orgianal post so I guess it;s a free for all there

[Mentalmummy]

If you look at the Qpel tick box you`ll see DXN HDTV setting actually greys this out so is not used (I`m using Nics most recent build but I think it applies to all Xvid builds) although it is ticked - it won`t let you select or deselect it meaning it is not available in that profile setting.

Regarding frames I can only go by experience, I`ve had two Yamada standalones and both play fine with the settings I use. As I understand it Yamadas early divx players (like mine) are bog standard so in theory all players should be able to play the xvid files mine does.

I`m not really an expert, most of what I know is from trial and error and posts here so I could be wrong but packed bitstreams basically mean you can decode your video (view it) a bit quicker without a delay at the start and I think also that seeking in avi files is quicker with a packed bitstream.

Packed bitstreams were bought in with DivX 5 so any player able to play that (all of them can I think) should play packed bitstreams.

For 100% compatibility with all standalone DivX players I believe that Qpel and GMC must be disabled and that if you use packed bitstreams you should have just the one B-frame setting as you say.

[celtic_druid]

Updated DXN profiles
http://celticdruid.no-ip.com/test/xvid1.1.0betaDXN.7z
as per
http://list.xvid.org/pipermail/xvid-devel/2005-February/004866.html

[Digga]

Originally posted by Shinigami-Sama but you said these aer for pc playback only in your orgianal post so I guess it;s a free for all thereI posted my settings used for PC playback, with the question what I need to change for standalone compliance.
iirc some stand alone can play medium-bitrate encodes with 2 b-frames but only one at high bitratesah.

If you look at the Qpel tick box you`ll see DXN HDTV setting actually greys this out so is not used (I`m using Nics most recent build but I think it applies to all Xvid builds) although it is ticked that made me think it's used by default... but I take your word it's not used. thx.

Updated DXN profilesthanks celtic_druid.
where does the xvid.inf go? the two dlls are located in C:\windoze\system32, but I can't find the .inf file to replace it. is it needed?

[celtic_druid]

If XviD 1.1.x was already installed then no it is not needed. Just copy over the dll's (after renaming the original ones if you want). Make sure that you keep the original xvid.ax as I didn't include one.