MP4 files collection (Test CD) for testing "NeroDigital" players + results

[bond]

i now created an own thread about this, so its easier to point people to it:

if someone is interested i now created a collection of all sorts of .mp4 files (different video codecs/options, different audio codecs, aso...) which people can try to find out the real capabilities of their .mp4 supporting mpeg-4 players :)

you can grab it here (http://rapidshare.de/files/6799789/MP4_TestCD_v3.7z.html)

with that you can for example test whether your player supports:
- .mp4 (of course ;) )
- different audio formats in .mp4 (mp2/mp3/aac/alac/vorbis)
- different video formats in .mp4 (mpeg-1/mpeg-2/mpeg-4 asp/mpeg-4 avc/theora)
- different mpeg-4 asp settings (qpel, gmc...)
- subtitles
- chapters
- and much more



only valid for v1/2:
the Test CD is a burning image because it also includes a file stored in mode2form2 (xcd). it should be burnable in any of the big burning programs (eg nero)
if you dont want to test whether xcd works on your player you can also easily extract the files with a tool like isobuster (http://www.smart-projects.net/isobuster/) :)

[lordyu]

Ok, here's my test report on DVP630/05 FW 0531.

\audio\mpeg-1\mp2
01-mp2_2lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 all ok
02-mp2_2lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 no sound, video ok

\audio\mpeg-1\mp3
03-mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 all ok
04-mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 all ok
05-mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 no sound, video ok
06-mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 all ok
07-mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 all ok
08-mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 no sound, video ok

\audio\mpeg-4\
09-aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video ok
10-aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok
11-aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 no sound, video ok
12-aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video ok
13-aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok
14-aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 no sound, video ok

\audio\mpeg-4\multichannel
15-aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video ok

\video
16-asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4 won't start
17-asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 no sound, fuzzy video, SYSTEM button doesn't help
18-asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok
19-asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4 skip to play next file
20-asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok
21-asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4 skip to play next file
22-sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok

\video\anamorphic
23-sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok
24-sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 skip to next file in menu

\video\avc
25-avc-base_nero.mp4 won't start

\video\b-frames
26-asp-1b-pb_divx_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video frozen @1st frame
27-asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video frozen @1st frame
28-asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4 skip to play next file
29-asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video frozen @1st frame
30-asp-3b_xvid_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video frozen @1st frame
31-asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 skip to play next file

\video\chapters
32-chapters_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video ok
33-chapters_sp-3ivx_nero-64bitmdat.mp4 won't start

\video\mpeg1-2\
34-mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 won't start
35-mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 won't start
36-mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 won't start
37-mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 won't start

\special\pictures
38-jpg_mp4box.mp4 won't start
39-png_mp4box.mp4 won't start

\special\subtitles
40-timedtext_mp4box.mp4 no sound, video ok, no subs
41-vobsub_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 no sound, video ok, no subs
42-vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4 no sound, video ok, no subs

\special\systems
43-kangaroo.mp4 won't start

\special\private
44-theora_mp4box.mp4 won't start
45-vorbis_mp4box.mp4 won't start
46-alac_itunes.m4a doesn't show up in menu

\special\xcd
47-sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4.dat won't start

No conclusions though. :)

Here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bbjune/task2.bat) is a batch file to copy from the disc and rename to NN-filename.* if anyone wants. Change the drive letter in the batch file.

[SeeMoreDigital]

This is great stuff....

I wonder if telemachus can break-down his Siemssen SCO5000ND player observations in the same way!

EDIT:

I don't know whether this may help others (should they ever decide to post a report) but, as far as I can determine, bonds MP4 TestCD (v2.0) includes the following files: -audio folder

audio/mpeg-1 sub-folder
mpeg1/mp2 sub-sub-folder
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4

audio/mpeg1/mp3 sub-folder
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4

audio/mpeg-4 folder
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4

audio/mpeg-4/multichannel sub-folder
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4

------------------------------------------

special folder

special/pictures folder
jpg_mp4box.mp4
png_mp4box.mp4

special/private folder
alac_itunes.m4a
theora_mp4box.mp4
vorbis_mp4box.mp4

special/subtitles folder
timedtext_mp4box.mp4
vobsub_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4
vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4

special/systems folder
kangaroo.mp4

special/xcd folder
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4.dat

------------------------------------------

video folder

asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4
asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4
asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4
asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4
asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4

video/anamorphic sub-folder
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4
video/avc sub-folder
avc-base_nero.mp4

video/b-frames sub-folder
asp-1b-pb_divx_3ivx.mp4
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4box.mp4
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4
asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4
asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4
asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4

video/chapters sub-folder
chapters_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4
chapters_sp-3ivx_nero-64bitmdat.mp4

video/mpeg1-2 sub-folder
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4


Maybe bond could edit this thread accordingly!


Cheers

[telemachus]

I started to break it down in that way, but it makes no sense, and takes a hell of a long time to compare.

It is much more logical for the breakdown of the test CD to adhere to the CD's own folder structure, not just place all files alphabetically!

That said, I am going to have to go through and reproduce my results anyway, because I did not comment about audio playback for files which were in the Video folders... I concluded that video was being tested and if there was no audio that was fine. I dont know if all/none/some of the files in the Video folder contain audio... do they?

Lordu and others, please could you break down your list according to the testCD's file structure so others who want to compare dont have to search in all sorts of sub directories to find the corresponding file!

TA!

Mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
I started to break it down in that way, but it makes no sense, and takes a hell of a long time to compare.

It is much more logical for the breakdown of the test CD to adhere to the CD's own folder structure, not just place all files alphabetically! Maybe it would be easier if bond numbered all his test files :eek:

That would give him something to do... bless him!


Cheers

[telemachus]

I think the way Bond has it is good, he has categorised the things already. As soon as they are in one big list, the categories lose their meaning... so I will spit out another report which is an accurate reflection of the test CD... give me 20 mins more... later
mark.

[telemachus]

AUDIO / MPEG-1 / MP2:
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - no audio video ok
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - no audio video ok

AUDIO / MPEG-1 / MP3:

mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - no audio video ok
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - no audio video ok
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - no audio video ok
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - no audio video ok
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - no audio video ok
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - no audio video ok

AUDIO / MPEG4:
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - plays well
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays well
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - plays well
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - plays well
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays well
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - plays well

AUDIO / MPEG4 / MULTICHANNEL:
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 plays well

SPECIAL / PICTURES:
jpg_mp4box.mp4 - no playback
png_mp4box.mp4 - no playback

SPECIAL / PRIVATE:
theora_mp4box.mp4 - "cannot play this file"
vorbis_mp4box.mp4 - "cannot play this file"
alac_itunes.m4a - not shown in menu

SPECIAL / SUBTITLES:
timedtext_mp4box.mp4 - no sub
vobsub_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 - no sub
vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4 - sub worked

SPECIAL / SYSTEMS:
kangaroo.mp4 - "cannot play this file"

SPECIAL / XCD:
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4.dat - no playback

VIDEO:
asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - "cannot play this file"
asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - image freeze on first frame
asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - plays video


VIDEO / ANAMORPHIC:
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 - plays video


VIDEO / AVC:
avc-base_nero.mp4 – NO. freezes system

VIDEO / B-FRAMES:
asp-1b-pb_divx_3ivx.mp4 - plays video
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4 - plays video
asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4 - plays video
asp-3b_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - plays video
asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 - plays video

VIDEO / CHAPTERS:
chapters_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 - can navigate < >
chapters_sp-3ivx_nero-64bitmdat.mp4 - can navigate < >

VIDEO / MPEG1-2:
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 – NO. freezes system
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 – NO. freezes system
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 – NO
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 – NO. freezes system

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
AUDIO / MPEG4 / MULTICHANNEL:
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 plays well Are you able to confirm if the audio channels are mapped correctly via the 6Ch "analogue" audio outputs?


Cheers

[telemachus]

well, i only have a stereo amp, but can plug and unplug stuff at the back, and I guess it does work because I was testing the movie "Adaption" and could only hear the background sounds, but no dialogue. I then went to the menu and disabled the dolby 5.1 and could then hear the dialogue... but a full test I cannot do.

do you know if there are any cd's available which will test avi/divx/xvid files? I am a little worried about my player - that it does not play a lot of MP2 and MP3 files in MP4 containers. It plays MP3 audio files fine, but I want to check why some of the audio files I play have no audio. If you know where I can dl other test CDs please tell me.

Thanks,
mark.

[lordyu]

Originally posted by telemachus
I started to break it down in that way, but it makes no sense, and takes a hell of a long time to compare.

It is much more logical for the breakdown of the test CD to adhere to the CD's own folder structure, not just place all files alphabetically!
On DVP630, it is easier with numbers due to the filename length limit and it is awkward to browse through the folders to test each file. If you let it play automatically it sometimes skips and you won't know what file it is playing. Also sometimes it has gone crazy e.g., it won't play any of the rest correctly so you have to test with a working file every time you encounter a bad file to make sure the player is still working properly otherwise you have to reboot. With numbers you can, for example, press 3 1 PLAY to play file #31 then it will skip (sometimes start to get crazy) so you can press 0 1 PLAY to play file #01 to make sure it's still working ok before you can test file #32. Putting all files in root folder of a test CD makes it easier you get corresponding file number assigned by the player.

Originally posted by telemachus
Lordu and others, please could you break down your list according to the testCD's file structure so others who want to compare dont have to search in all sorts of sub directories to find the corresponding file!
I've re-arranged the items in the list hope it's better now.

[telemachus]

lordyu
thanks mate!
mark

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi telemachus,

bond's "aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4" contains very simple dialogue....

In fact all that's said is: "left front, centre, right front, right surround, left surround, LFE". Against a background of noise!

So are you confirming that when you play this file - to the end, with your speakers just connected to the players rear speaker outputs, all you hear is the phrase: "right surround, left surround" and nothing else?


Cheers

EDIT: Name corrected... sorry for my over-excitement :confused:

[lordyu]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hi lordyu,

bond's "aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4" contains very simple dialogue....

In fact all that's said is: "left front, centre, right front, right surround, left surround, LFE". Against a background of noise!

So are you confirming that when you play this file - to the end, with your speakers just connected to the players rear speaker outputs, all you hear is the phrase: "right surround, left surround" and nothing else?


Cheers
I don't hear any sound for that one. Or did you mean to ask telemachus?

My player is connected to a cheap 14" TV with only one speaker.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by lordyu
I don't hear any sound for that one. Or did you mean to ask telemachus?

My player is connected to a cheap 14" TV with only one speaker. Sorry lordyu... yes, I did mean telemachus!


Cheers


EDIT: Encode removed

[lordyu]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Sorry lordyu... yes, I did mean telemachus!

I've also taken the liberty of providing the following, 60 second long 6Ch AAC-LC speaker mapping test file (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/6Ch_AAC-LC_test_01.zip). Which might make things easier ;)


Cheers
Doesn't play at all.

BTW, do I have to abandon Nero Burning ROM 5.5 and install Nero 6 in order to use Nero Recode 2 ?

[telemachus]

hello seemoredigital

i have tried
ND+6ChAAC+2ChAAC+2NoSubs.mp4
ND+1No_2Ch_AAC-LC_audio_tracks+2No_subtitle_tracks.mp4
ND+2No_2Ch_AAC-LC_audio_ tracks.mp4
and all play back fine

those with multitrack audio, i can use the remote control to toggle between comment about the creation of the movie and the dialogue

those with more than one subtitle, i can toggle between them on the remote too (the subtitle appears about 1-2 seconds BEFORE the corresponding audio)

in the file aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 I can hear Left Front, Center, Right Front, then there is a blank pause, then i hear LFE.

I have tried plugging my RCA cables into the surround outputs and switching the dolby thing on in settings, but cannot hear any L&R Surround voice.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by lordyu
Doesn't play at all.Unfortunately it's not likely too either... Even if Philips upgrade the ESS chip-set to support AAC audio!

Originally posted by lordyu
BTW, do I have to abandon Nero Burning ROM 5.5 and install Nero 6 in order to use Nero Recode 2 ? It's actually possible to download, install and run NeroVision Express (which includes Recode2) without installing Nero Burning ROM at all.

And personally speaking, I would not mind seeing NeroVision Express or even Recode2, available as a stand-alone purchasable product :eek:


Cheers

[telemachus]

Seemoredigital,

the 6Ch AAC-LC speaker mapping test file does not play on my siemssen either. On media player classic it shows a static page saying chapter7 and some explanation, but no audio is playable.

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I've also taken the liberty of providing the following, 60 second long 6Ch AAC-LC speaker mapping test file (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/6Ch_AAC-LC_test_01.zip). Which might make things easier ;)SMD, please dont publish other .mp4 files you created in that thread! that thread should be about my test cd and nothing else,
note that i spent A LOT of time to create these files and into making sure that they are 100% correct (not fucked up by mp4ui, tested to work correctly, correct channel mapping tested with ac3filter and what not else...)
these are not rushed "and now try this one i quickly made, noone knows how it was created" files!

thanks for your understanding :)

also note that i am not moderator in that forum, i cant edit threads here...

Originally posted by telemachus
It is much more logical for the breakdown of the test CD to adhere to the CD's own folder structure, not just place all files alphabetically!exactly!

That said, I am going to have to go through and reproduce my results anyway, because I did not comment about audio playback for files which were in the Video folders... I concluded that video was being tested and if there was no audio that was fine. I dont know if all/none/some of the files in the Video folder contain audio... do they?exactly!
there is no need to report audio playback in the video test files, as the video test files are for testing video and not audio of course ;)
audio is tested with the files in the audio folder...

Originally posted by lordyu
for example, press 3 1 PLAY to play file #31so what files get what number if there are multiple folders? or are all files number from one to x in each folder seperately?

Putting all files in root folder of a test CD makes it easier you get corresponding file number assigned by the player.i wont do that just because the player is crap handling multiple files and folders, this will lead to a big mess
the current structure is on purpose and i think its useful and keeps order in the bunch of files :)

but of course everyone can extract the files from the image with isobuster and burn them on CD as he wishes :)

[bond]

thanks a lot for these results! :)

to sum the .mp4 support up:

regarding mpeg-4 asp features (it doesnt matter what encoder you use, be it divx, xvid, 3ivx, nero...)
the player supports:
- qpel
- gmc 1wp (as used in divx5)
- mpeg quantisation
- h263 quantisation
- adaptive quantisation
the player doesnt support:
- gmc 3wp (as used in xvid and nerodigital)
- custom quantisation (sample uses hvs_best matrix)

regarding audio, the player supports
- only aac audio in .mp4
- multichannel aac audio streams!!!

regarding other .mp4 features:
it doesnt support:
- pictures in .mp4, altough it supports playback of jpg not in .mp4
- mp2 audio in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mp2 in .mpg
- mp3 audio in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mp3 not in .mp4
- mpeg-1 video in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mpeg-1 in .mpg
- mpeg-2 video in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mpeg-2 in .mpg
- mpeg-4 avc in .mp4
- mpeg-4 timed text
- mpeg-4 systems

regarding different .mp4 muxers:
- all tested, mp4box, 3ivx, mp4ui, nero, worked fine (of course as they all should produce the same mpeg-4 compliant output)
- the player also seems to support packed bitstream in .mp4, as produced by mp4ui on the b-frame divx sample

other things:
- it doesnt support the .m4a extension as used by apple's itunes
- it doesnt support XCD
- it supports vobsub subtitles (as used by nero)
- it supports chapters (also if set via nero's dshow muxer in graphedit!)

[bond]

thanks a lot for these results!

to sum the .mp4 support up:

regarding mpeg-4 asp features (it doesnt matter what encoder you use, be it divx, xvid, 3ivx, nero...)
the player supports:
- gmc 1wp (as used in divx5)
- mpeg quantisation
- h263 quantisation
the player doesnt support (or has problems with):
- adaptive quantisation
- custom quantisation: fuzzy video (hvs_best was used in the sample)
- b-frames (no matter if 1 or 3 in a row): frozen picture
- qpel
- gmc 3wp (as used in xvid and nero)

regarding audio,
the player supports
- mp2 audio in .mp4, when muxed with 3ivx, but not when muxed with mp4ui
- mp3 audio (both vbr and cbr) in .mp4, when muxed with 3ivx or mp4box, but not with mp4ui
the player doesnt support:
- aac audio in .mp4 (neither lc-aac, he-aac nor multichannel)

regarding other video:
it doesnt support
- pictures in .mp4, altough it supports playback of jpg not in .mp4
- mpeg-1 video in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mpeg-1 in .mpg
- mpeg-2 video in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mpeg-2 in .mpg
- mpeg-4 avc in .mp4

regarding other .mp4 features:
it doesnt support:
- mpeg-4 timed text
- mpeg-4 systems

regarding different .mp4 muxers:
- all files created with mp4box and 3ivx worked fine (of course as they all should produce the same mpeg-4 compliant output)
- files muxed with nero seem to not work, as the player doesnt support 64bit mdat atoms, as often used in nero recode2!
- mp4ui created files had problems when using b-frames (packed and unpacked), mp2 and mp3 audio, anamorphic streams (strange!)

other things:
- it doesnt support the .m4a extension as used by apple's itunes
- it doesnt support XCD
- it doesnt support vobsub subtitles (as used by nero)
- it doesnt support chapters

[lordyu]

Originally posted by bond
so what files get what number if there are multiple folders? or are all files number from one to x in each folder seperately?
From one to x in each folder separately.
Originally posted by bond
i wont do that just because the player is crap handling multiple files and folders, this will lead to a big mess
the current structure is on purpose and i think its useful and keeps order in the bunch of files :)
I know, that's why I posted a batch file if anyone wanna rename them my way. It's not like clicking mouse when browsing those folders using the remote.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
SMD, please dont publish other .mp4 files you created in that thread! that thread should be about my test cd and nothing else,
note that i spent A LOT of time to create these files and into making sure that they are 100% correct (not fucked up by mp4ui, tested to work correctly, correct channel mapping tested with ac3filter and what not else...)
these are not rushed "and now try this one i quickly made, noone knows how it was created" files!

thanks for your understanding :) Sorry bond, I understand, I'll remove the posts to the 6Ch audio file I made... But just for the record it was in fact generated entirely using Recode2... It's not been anywhere near mp4UI.

Maybe it does not work properly because it has too many chapter points or because the Mpeg2 video source only contains 1 frame!


Cheers

[bond]

lordyu, whats the filename length limit in the dvp? i might make the names shorter to avoid conflicts here :)

also about the anamorphic sample, can you confirm whether the picture gets automatically resized to 16:9 during playback or stays small lengthwise?
it should be like |------|, not |---|
i know its not easily spotable, i will create a better sample once i find the time :)

SMD, thanks :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well what a shame the audio channels (on the 6Ch AAC file bond provided) were not correctly mapped and that AAC in .m4a does not work. Hopefully a firmware upgrade can fix this - If the issue is brought to their attention!

It's nice to know that the Siemssen player can cope with Mpeg4/AAC .MP4 files generated outside of Nero Recode2. And hopefully, somebody can established whether anamorphic signalling works - like it does with some of the MediaTek players.

All in all though, the Siemssen looks like it's got the makings of a fine, flexible player. Which is not a bad going considering it's the first of it's kind :D


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by telemachus
in the file aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 I can hear Left Front, Center, Right Front, then there is a blank pause, then i hear LFE.seems the siemssen simply ignores the two surround channels :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
seems the siemssen simply ignores the two surround channels :( Hmmm!

I think it also needs to be established whether the audio coming from the front three analogue outputs is correctly/individually mapped and not matrixed!


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I think it also needs to be established whether the audio coming from the front three analogue outputs is correctly/individually mapped and not matrixed!what do you mean?

[lordyu]

Originally posted by bond
lordyu, whats the filename length limit in the dvp? i might make the names shorter to avoid conflicts here :)
It displays only the first 11 characters. I don't think you can shorten the names without losing the meanings. Better keep it that way. :)
Originally posted by bond
also about the anamorphic sample, can you confirm whether the picture gets automatically resized to 16:9 during playback or stays small lengthwise?
it should be like |------|, not |---|
i know its not easily spotable, i will create a better sample once i find the time :)

Almost every clips I get 2.7:1 on my 4:3 TV. You need vertical compensation to get the right aspect ratio (something like TV Mode in FairUse) or a circle won't look like a circle. Can you do that in Recode 2?

For 23-sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4, I get 2.2:1.

For the BBC on NTL, I get 1.7:1.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
what do you mean? When telemachus checked the 6Ch file, can he confirm how he heard the "front centre" channel?

Was the players "centre" output connected to just one of his speakers. Or was the players "front left" and "front right" outputs connected to both of his speakers?

If it was the latter connection, and he heard the word "centre". This means what he heard was most probably "matrixed" from the left and right channels (like Dolby ProLogic/Nicam) and not a "discrete" channel ;)


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by lordyu
Almost every clips I get 2.7:1 on my 4:3 TV. You need vertical compensation to get the right aspect ratio (something like TV Mode in FairUse) or a circle won't look like a circle. Can you do that in Recode 2? Although I do not own one of the Philips players, over Christmas I had the opportunity to test the DVP632 with the following PAR settings in .MP4: -


4:3 PAL 12:11
16:9 PAL 16:11

4:3 NTSC 10:11
16:9 NTSC 40:33
And sadly none of them signalled the TV, like it would with 4:3 or 16:9 Mpeg2/DVD stream!

And anything using "DAR" calculations, was not even recognised by the player :eek:


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
When telemachus checked the 6Ch file, can he confirm how he heard the "front centre" channel?yep he heard it

Was the players "centre" output connected to just one of his speakers. Or was the players "front left" and "front right" outputs connected to both of his speakers?i see what you mean, but either way the multichannel stream got downmixed automatically, i assume the center stream got downmixed correctly to left AND right (as the lfe i assume)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
... i assume the center stream got downmixed correctly to left AND right (as the lfe i assume) True, but if the centre channel is matrixed and not discrete, then it might not be possible for the player to be upgraded to pass true 6Ch AAC-LC via the analogue outputs :(

I hope to god this player can't spin, decode and correctly output 6Ch WMApro files :eek:


Cheers

[telemachus]

hi all, glad the forum is back up again,

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
When telemachus checked the 6Ch file, can he confirm how he heard the "front centre" channel?

Was the players "centre" output connected to just one of his speakers. Or was the players "front left" and "front right" outputs connected to both of his speakers?

If it was the latter connection, and he heard the word "centre". This means what he heard was most probably "matrixed" from the left and right channels (like Dolby ProLogic/Nicam) and not a "discrete" channel ;)


Cheers

I just tested Bond's Multichannel file on the Siemssen again. On the back of the machine there are 2 plugs for front 2 for surround 1 for center and 1 for subwoofer.

If I plug into the 2 front speakers I can hear as I said, left front, right front, center,---,---,LFE.

If I plug into the 2 surround speakers I hear nothing at all

If I plug into the center speaker I also dont hear anything.

I have been to "Setting" and made sure the Prologic is ON and the sound to PCM and that all speakers are set ON.

When I output PINK SOUND to the surround or center speakers, I can monitor that sound by plugging the RCA cables in the back of the Siemssen... so it does seem that the problem lies with the Siemssen's ability to playback the 5.1 file properly.

mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
I have been to "Setting" and made sure the Prologic is ON and the sound to PCM and that all speakers are set ON. When testing 6h AAC streams, try turning "ProLogic" OFF... as this feature (when switched on) will "matrix" the audio...

...which is not the effect you want ;)


Cheers

[ND-Post]

Dear all,

I tested the Siemssen device and found also the same 6-ch problem.

The people from Siemssen are informed. Hopefully they can fix it in the new firmware.

Cu
Alex

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by ND-Post
I tested the Siemssen device and found also the same 6-ch problem.

The people from Siemssen are informed. Hopefully they can fix it in the new firmware. Nice one Alex... And a warm welcome to the forum :)


Cheers

[telemachus]

seemoredigital,

there is no difference with prologic set to "off"

there is nothing coming out of the surround plugs when playing mpeg4, only with DVD.

later
mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks Mark,

So it would seem, at the present time the 6Ch analogue audio outputs can only be used for decoding/passing DolbyDigital.

Hopfully this can be cured with an firmware update, as mentioned by Alex

>bond,
Is there any chance you could get to be a moderator of this section of the forum too. As this sort of info would be better if it was merged into the main Siemssen (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88568) thread ;)


Cheers

[telemachus]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Thanks Mark,

So it would seem, at the present time the 6Ch analogue audio outputs can only be used for decoding/passing DolbyDigital.



seemoredigital,

im curious,
how then, when playing your test files, was i able to toggle between dialogue and narration on the fly? Surely then, the audio channels off an MP4 are available for being heard?

as you can tell, i dont know a whole lot about mp4 etc, i am a video director/editor by profession, but am new to all this stuff... dont moderators have to know a lot about mp4!?

till later
mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
im curious,
how then, when playing your test files, was i able to toggle between dialogue and narration on the fly? Surely then, the audio channels off an MP4 are available for being heard? Being able to toggle between audio tracks is not the same as being able to hear 6No individual channels!

I have an "audio only" file which includes 12No 6Ch (5.1) AAC tracks ;)... I wonder if the Siemssen player can switch between them?


Cheers

[telemachus]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Being able to toggle between audio tracks is not the same as being able to hear 6No individual channels!

I have an "audio only" file which includes 12No 6Ch (5.1) AAC tracks ;)... I wonder if the Siemssen player can switch between them?


Cheers

hey there seemoredigital,

i doubt it would do that with an audio file, since the toggling, i assume, is really designed for video clips with mulitple languages or tracks, but i dont really understand what the difference is between the two... are you not using the 6 channel audio capabilities in each case, both in 5.1 sound and multilanguage audio tracks?

if you want to have me test more, link to it on the siemssen thread to keep other CD tests off this thread.

Buy the way, I was testing a disk tonight and could only hear the ambient sound... then plugged into the Center RCA output and could then hear the dialogue... someone did some odd encoding!

later
mark.

[superdump]

Out of interest is the Siemssen player supposed to be able to decode AVC? I see that it cannot according to the testing results but is it supposed to?

[bond]

Originally posted by superdump
Out of interest is the Siemssen player supposed to be able to decode AVC? I see that it cannot according to the testing results but is it supposed to? no player is supposed to handle avc till now :)

[Sagittaire]

Originally posted by bond
thanks a lot for these results! :)

the player doesnt support:
- gmc 3wp (as used in xvid and nerodigital)
- custom quantisation (sample uses hvs_best matrix)
graphedit!) [/B]

Your CM sample is not compliant i think ...

[bond]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
Your CM sample is not compliant i think ... hm, why do you think so?

[Sagittaire]

MPEG4 ASP Custom Matrix "Sagittaire-Low" (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/10-ASP-CM.mp4) is compatible with Siemssen player

Zoran chip can play MPEG4 ASP with custom matrix. In fact Custom Matrix is compatible with siemssen player:
- XviD-CM in avi with VDM
- ND-CM in mp4 with nerorecode

In my case mp4creator, mp4box, mp4UI in last version are unable to mux MPEG4-ASP C.M. in mp4 (it's possible with mp4UI but not with option "ISMA compliant")

[bond]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
[B]MPEG4 ASP Custom Matrix "Sagittaire-Low" (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/10-ASP-CM.mp4) is compatible with Siemssen player

Zoran chip can play MPEG4 ASP with custom matrix. In fact Custom Matrix is compatible with siemssen player:
- XviD-CM in avi with VDM
- ND-CM in mp4 with nerorecodewell lots of players can only play specifc custom matrices and not all. that might be the problem

do you have the siemssen? if yes than try a hvs_best sample plz

In my case mp4creator, mp4box, mp4UI in last version are unable to mux MPEG4-ASP C.M. in mp4 (it's possible with mp4UI but not with option "ISMA compliant")what does tell you that they are unable to mux custom matrices?

[Sagittaire]

do you have the siemssen?Yes ... very good MPEG4 player ... :D


if yes than try a hvs_best sample plzall HVS matrix (best, better and good) and my Sagittaire's Matrix. Zoran chip is compatible with all custum matrix ...


what does tell you that they are unable to mux custom matrices?mp4creator: impossible to read file with software player ...
mp4box: mux but impossible to read file with hardware player ...
mp4UI: mux but impossible to read file with hardware player and I must desactivate "ISMA compliant" only with for C.M. option ...

In fact CM seem to be a specific problem for all mp4 muxer ...

[bond]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
mp4creator: impossible to read file with software player ...mp4creator is known to be buggy and mp4ui is totally based on mp4creator

mp4box: mux but impossible to read file with hardware player ...well is it possible to play that files in a software player? (note that quicktime doesnt handle ASP features)

[Videostation]

Hi!

Here are my results with the Siemssen and firmware from 05.02. They are are a little bit different than from telemachus. The differences are red marked.

audio folder

audio/mpeg-1 sub-folder
- video ok, no audio

audio/mpeg1/mp3 sub-folder
- video ok, no audio

audio/mpeg-4 folder
- video ok, but audio without SBR infos

audio/mpeg-4/multichannel sub-folder
- plays very well, but it shows only 2 channels in the infos
- I can’t test the mapping, because I haven’t a 5.1 system

------------------------------------------

special folder

special/pictures folder
- shows: This profile is not supported

special/private folder
alac_itunes.m4a – player freeze
theora_mp4box.mp4 – shows: This profile is not supported
vorbis_mp4box.mp4 – jumps to the main menu

special/subtitles folder
timedtext_mp4box.mp4 – video ok, no subs
vobsub_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 – video + subs ok, showing also the correct language via infos
vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4 – video + subs ok, showing also the correct language via infos

special/systems folder
kangaroo.mp4 - shows: This profile is not supported

special/xcd folder
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4.dat – black picture

------------------------------------------

video folder

asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4– black picture
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - shows: This profile is not supported, if I use a custom matrix in an AVI it works perfectly
asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4 - OK
asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4 – it works, but artifacts are hidden because of the high compression, with my own material I have clearly visible artifacts in the picture
asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - OK
asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4 - OK
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - OK

video/anamorphic sub-folder
- is shown, but consider no PAR

video/avc sub-folder
avc-base_nero.mp4 – doesn’t play

video/b-frames sub-folder
- plays all very well, except „asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4” -> jerky playback

video/chapters sub-folder
- no problems with navigation

video/mpeg1-2 sub-folder
- player freeze

CU Videostation

[bond]

cool, thx a lot :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, many thanks Videostation,

I wonder why Mpeg4 encodes with anamorphic signalling don't work correctly?

Maybe some more tests files could be generated with DAR and PAR signalling, in both .AVI and .MP4 containers?


Cheers

[Videostation]

I've already tested AVIs (XviD) with different PARs, but the result is always the same. The player doesn't consider the PAR. But in the next days I will test a little bit more.

CU Vidostation

[bond]

Originally posted by Videostation
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - shows: This profile is not supported, if I use a custom matrix in an AVI it works perfectlyto my knowledge the matrix used in this test was hvs-best
did you try other matrices in .mp4, eg encoded not with xvid, but with nero for example?

[Videostation]

Yes, I've tested also other matrices in .mp4, but neither Soulhunter's v6 nor Sharktooths EQM V3LR works.
Didn't try Nero yet, maybe in the next days. But afaik it should work.

CU Videostation

[bond]

Originally posted by Videostation
Didn't try Nero yet, maybe in the next days.would be great

But afaik it should worki would be very surprised if it would work

[Videostation]

i would be very surprised if it would work Be surprised. :D
I can confirm that custom matrices work within .mp4, if I use Recode. The files playing perfectly on my Siemssen. I used Sharktooth EQM V3LR and the hvs-best matrix for my tests.

CU Videostation

[bond]

can you try to demux these nero streams to raw and than reimport to .mp4 with both mp4box and mp4creator and try if they work similar to what is discussed here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88568&perpage=20&pagenumber=6)

that way we should be able to check what really causes the problem (xvid, mp4box, nero, siemmsen...)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
...that way we should be able to check what really causes the problem (xvid, mp4box, nero, siemmsen...) Good idea!

Can you start with using MP4BoxGUI v0.14 please... Which is available here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=617798#post617798) - but marked as v0.13!


EDIT: You will need Micro$oft .NET and the latest version of MP4Box.exe installed.


Cheers

[Videostation]

Ok, I'm going to do it and post my results later.

[bond]

if possible dont use mp4boxgui or mp4muxer to avoid problems introduced by the gui (dunno if there are some, but who knows)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
if possible dont use mp4boxgui or mp4muxer to avoid problems introduced by the gui (dunno if there are some, but who knows) In that case it may be prudent to try muxing, with and without a GUI.

One things for sure, .MP4 still needs some accurate muxing tools.

The sooner we establish that muxing tools such MP4BoxGUI are able to generate encodes that work with the Siemssen (and Rjtech RJ-1500DVX II) the better.... So you might want to try Mpeg4 streams generated without MPEG matricies as well. And maybe different PAR/DAR values too!

Just a thought...


Cheers

[bond]

mp4boxgui uses mp4box.exe directly, so it should produce exactly the same output
its just that you might never know whether there is a bug in mp4boxgui which changes something, so why risk anything

One things for sure, .MP4 still needs some accurate muxing tools. whats inaccurate with mp4box and mp4creator?
till now we dont know whether the custom matrix problem is caused by them or siemmssen

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
whats inaccurate with mp4box and mp4creator?Nothing as far as I know.... It's just that not everybody likes doing everything via command line!

Originally posted by bond
till now we dont know whether the custom matrix problem is caused by them or siemmssen It's a curious one for sure... especially as the custom matrix streams appear to work in .AVI

I've tried many custom matrixed .MP4 files (muxed using mp4UI). Most of which worked with my Xcard.

I wonder whether somebody can provide some small sample files for me to try?


Cheers

[Videostation]

I've tried mp4creator (1.2.12) as well as mp4box (2.4.0) with the demuxed nero-avi and it almost worked. But the problem is a jerky playback.

mp4creator:
-----------
avi2raw -> mp4creator -create=nero.avi -H -rate=25 nero.mp4 -> mp4creator -create=audio.aac -H -I -rate=25 -optimize nero.mp4

mp4box:
-------
mp4box -convert nero.avi nero.mp4 -> mp4box -add audio.mp4#trackID=1 nero.mp4

First i demuxed the recode mp4-file with graphedit and 3ivx splitter.
I hope the steps are right?

CU Videostation

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Videostation,

Can you confirm whether the de-muxed .AVI streams play okay?

By-the-way... do any of them contain B-VOP's, GMC or Qpel?


Cheers

[Videostation]

Can you confirm whether the de-muxed .AVI streams play okay? Yes, I can. No problems if I mux the nero .AVI with MP3.
By-the-way... do any of them contain B-VOP's, GMC or Qpel? I used B-VOP's and QPel, but no GMC.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Videostation
Yes, I can. No problems if I mux the nero .AVI with MP3.
I used B-VOP's and QPel, but no GMC. Did you remember to remove/disable packed bit-stream?

Have you considered generating some "custom" tests without B-VOP, Qpel and GMC?


Cheers

[bond]

mp4box handles packed bitstream .avi files right
mp4creator doesnt (you have to do a .avi -> raw -> .mp4 conversion if you want to use mp4creator with packed bitstreams)

but this issue (packed bitstream) is irrelevant here as a nero stream extracted from .mp4 is surely not packed

still its very strange that both muxers show exactly the same result (choppy playback), i can only imagine that its siemmssens fault, cause that would be a too big coincidence that two independant muxers are borked the same way

you might want to try to demux the nero stream from .mp4 to raw and than reimport the raw stream (and not the .avi) to .mp4 with mp4creator and mp4box just to be sure
and also dont add the audio stream in your tests, so you can be sure that the choppyness isnt somehow caused by an audio issue

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry... I scanned passed the bit about the custom MPEG encodes being Nero... so no, they wont contain packed bit-stream!

And yes, it's a good idea not to mux the audio stream into the .MP4 container at this stage.


Cheers

[Videostation]

There is another problem at the momemt. If I load the demuxed nero .AVI with MPEG4Modifier the quant type is either MPEG or h.263. But never MPEG custom, how it should be normally. I don't know why?
Does another program exist, that is able to read out the matrices?

CU Videostation

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've never come across that with any of the NeroDigital encodes I've generated.

What are your settings? Maybe I can replicate it myself with a small source and provide a sample for you to try!


Cheers

[Videostation]

settings: I've used the profile maximum definition, but with QPel, B-VOP's, 4 vectors per macroblock and hvs-best-picture matrix.

[bond]

btw the vol created by mp4box on custom matrix files (the place where the matrix info is stored btw) looks pretty normally:

Video Object Layer
random_accessible_vol - 0
video object type - 17
is_object_layer_identifier - 1
verid - 2
vol_priority - 4
aspect_ratio_info 1
vol_control_parameters - 1
chroma format - 1
low delay - 0
vbv_parameters - 0
video object layer shape - 0
vop_time_increment_resolution - 25
fixed_vop_rate - 1
fixed_vop_time_increment - bits 5 1
vol width - 640
vol height - 256
interlaced - 0
obmc_disable - 1
sprite - 2
no_of_sprite_warping_points - 3
sprite_warping_accuracy - 3
sprite brightness change - 0
not_8_bit - 0
quant_type - 1
load_intra_quant_mat - 1
8 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 17 16 17 16 17 18
17 18 18 17 18 21 19 20 21 20 19 21 24 22 22 24
24 22 22 24 25 25 27 30 27 25 25 29 31 35 35 31
29 36 41 44 41 36 47 54 54 47 65 70 65 88 88 115

load_nonintra_quant_mat - 1
18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 19 18 19 18 19 21
19 20 20 19 21 23 21 22 24 22 21 23 27 24 24 27
27 24 24 27 29 28 30 33 30 28 29 32 35 39 39 35
32 40 46 50 46 40 53 61 61 53 73 79 73 98 98 129

quarter sample - 1
complexity estimation - 1
resync_marker_disable - 1
data partitioned - 0
newpred_enable - 0
reduced_resolution_vop_enable - 0
scalability - 0

[bond]

Originally posted by Videostation
There is another problem at the momemt. If I load the demuxed nero .AVI with MPEG4Modifier the quant type is either MPEG or h.263. But never MPEG custom, how it should be normally. I don't know why?ok i demuxed a .mp4 file containing a custom matrix xvid stream with mp4box to .avi and fed this .avi to mpeg4modifier
and mpeg4modifier detects the custom matrix perfectly!

maybe the nero streams have a bug and the siemmssen only works together with these buggy nero streams correctly?
still that would also be very strange

[Videostation]

Yes, if I use a xvid stream there is no problem. The matrix is showed correctly. Only the nero stream makes problems. I don't know, but maybe no custom matrix is used with recode. That could be the bug.
btw how can i get the vol infos with mp4box?

[bond]

Originally posted by Videostation
btw how can i get the vol infos with mp4box?use the mpeg4vol tool from mpeg4ip for that

[Videostation]

Here is the vol created by nero directly. hvs-best-matrix was used, but no infos in the vol about that. No matter what custom matrix I've used, the result is every time the same.

Video Object Layer
random_accessible_vol - 0
video object type - 17
is_object_layer_identifier - 1
verid - 5
vol_priority - 1
aspect_ratio_info 1
vol_control_parameters - 1
chroma format - 1
low delay - 0
vbv_parameters - 1
bit rate 2403
vbv buffer size 587
vbv occupancy 49589
video object layer shape - 0
vop_time_increment_resolution - 25000
fixed_vop_rate - 1
fixed_vop_time_increment - bits 15 1000
vol width - 672
vol height - 272
interlaced - 0
obmc_disable - 1
sprite - 0
not_8_bit - 0
quant_type - 1
load_intra_quant_mat - 0
load_nonintra_quant_mat - 0
quarter sample - 1
complexity estimation - 1
resync_marker_disable - 1
data partitioned - 0
newpred_enable - 0
reduced_resolution_vop_enable - 0
scalability - 0

[SeeMoreDigital]

Just finished generating an custom HVS-Best encode with Recode2 to .MP4. It would appear that the matrices have been inputted: -

http://img26.exs.cx/img26/4453/recode2cmsettings3qg.png

However, after de-muxing the stream to .AVI and running it thru' MPEG Modifier, I can confirm that the matrices are not visible: -

http://img29.exs.cx/img29/6903/ndhvsbestdemuxedtoavi2kk.png


I also generated an custom HVS-Best encode with XviD to .AVI. After running the encode thru' MPEG Modifier, I can confirm that the matrices are visible: -

http://img224.exs.cx/img224/6120/xvidhvsbestinavi3dp.png

I then used MP4BoxGUI (v0.14) to mux the custom stream into .MP4

I am able to confirm that I was able to play all of the encodes perfectly using my Sigma Xcard and ADS Media-Link...

I guess I can provide the samples if required.


Cheers

[Videostation]

Thanks for the confirmation.
The problem is, nero seems to use the last settings from "Advanced", before the option "force custom matrix" was activated. If I had chosen h.263, the .mp4 file contained the h.263 matrix, with mpeg the standard mpeg matrix was used, but never the wanted custom matrix.

CU Videostation

[bond]

Originally posted by Videostation
Here is the vol created by nero directly. hvs-best-matrix was used, but no infos in the vol about that. No matter what custom matrix I've used, the result is every time the same.

Video Object Layer
random_accessible_vol - 0
video object type - 17
is_object_layer_identifier - 1
verid - 5
vol_priority - 1
aspect_ratio_info 1
vol_control_parameters - 1
chroma format - 1
low delay - 0
vbv_parameters - 1
bit rate 2403
vbv buffer size 587
vbv occupancy 49589
video object layer shape - 0
vop_time_increment_resolution - 25000
fixed_vop_rate - 1
fixed_vop_time_increment - bits 15 1000
vol width - 672
vol height - 272
interlaced - 0
obmc_disable - 1
sprite - 0
not_8_bit - 0
quant_type - 1
load_intra_quant_mat - 0
load_nonintra_quant_mat - 0
quarter sample - 1
complexity estimation - 1
resync_marker_disable - 1
data partitioned - 0
newpred_enable - 0
reduced_resolution_vop_enable - 0
scalability - 0
this is borked!

or an other possibility is that the nero encodes, altough you set it in the gui, dont use the custom matrix, but mpeg instead. because according to smd's screenshots you also set "mpeg quantisation" in the advanced tab and not something like "custom quant". this would be a gui/encoder bug

another possibility would be that you guys set a nero profile in the gui, which doesnt allow custom matrices, and therefore resets to the normal mpeg one
are you guys sure you set nero to the unrestricted profile?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
...are you guys sure you set nero to the unrestricted profile? Here's the "Profile" I've been using: -

http://img220.exs.cx/img220/6039/recode2profiles3dw.png


And here's where Recode2 informs you about "Custom Matrices": -

http://img16.exs.cx/img16/2295/recode2customsetting4om.png


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Here's the "Profile" I've been using:ok, so it pretty sure that either the nero gui is borked and doesnt encode using the set the custom matrix or the nero encoder is borked as it doesnt signal the matrix (correctly)

either way, its neros fault :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

I think it's probably b0rked :(


Cheers

[Videostation]

Thx for the nice screenshots. :)
I think it's a bug in the gui.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Who's going to bring this observation to the attention of JohnV?


Cheers

[Videostation]

You. :D

[pecus]

Hi all, I was interested in testing my brand new packard bell dvx350 with the cd test suite, but the link is broken. Maybe bond can rearrange with telemachus or find alternative hosting. Or it's just a wrong path. In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing it available again.

[bond]

if someone can and wants to host the files just gimme a shout :)

[bond]

i have created a new version with lots of new mp4 files

the downloadlink is in the first post

[SeeMoreDigital]

i have created a new version with lots of new mp4 files

the downloadlink is in the first postBummer... you've hosted the file with RapidShare!

I would purchase their "Premium" service in order to download your file.... and I don't trust the company at all :eek:

[bond]

why that

[pecus]

@bond: tx for the file, I'll post results.

@SMD: Rapidshare allows you to download the file freely. Try a couple of times if it doesn't work. I'll be sharing it on eDonkey/eMule starting tonight (try Razorback).

[pecus]

@bond: despite the readme, the archive does not contain a burning image, rather files and folders. Is this right? (I used winrar to unpack the 7z archive).

[SeeMoreDigital]

@SMD: Rapidshare allows you to download the file freely. Try a couple of times if it doesn't work. I'll be sharing it on eDonkey/eMule starting tonight (try Razorback).Sadly it does not matter how many times I try or at what time of the day..... I always obtain a meesage similar to this one: -

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3742/rapidsharemessage1ri.gif


Cheers

[bond]

@bond: despite the readme, the archive does not contain a burning image, rather files and folders. Is this right? (I used winrar to unpack the 7z archive).yeah, i forgot to update the readme

[masken]

There really should be an overviewable online form or something on Doom9's page where one could view/report results... :)

[bond]

There really should be an overviewable online form or something on Doom9's page where one could view/report results... :)well, you are invited to create and mantain such a page ;)

[masken]

well, you are invited to create and mantain such a page ;)
http://www.home.no/masken/other/smilies/maskens/m-smilie_wiggle.gif ...wish there were more hours in a day hehe ;)

[telemachus]

Hello there,
these results show the Yamada is FAR more versatile than the Siemssen, only two files play on the siemssen and not on the yamada, asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4 and asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4. There are many, many that play on the yamada and not on the siemssen.

AUDIO / MPEG-1 / MP2:
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - WORKS FINE


AUDIO / MPEG-1 / MP3:
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - WORKS FINE
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - WORKS FINE

AUDIO / MPEG4:
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - WORKS FINE
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - WORKS FINE

AUDIO / MPEG4 / MULTICHANNEL:
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 DID NOT TEST PROPERLY but heard Lf Rf ... LFE from stereo system

SPECIAL / PICTURES:
jpg_mp4box.mp4 - no playback
png_mp4box.mp4 - no playback

SPECIAL / PRIVATE:
theora_mp4box.mp4 - "cannot play this file"
vorbis_mp4box.mp4 - "cannot play this file"
alac_itunes.m4a - not shown in menu

SPECIAL / SUBTITLES:
timedtext_mp4box.mp4 - no sub
vobsub_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4 - WORKS FINE

SPECIAL / SYSTEMS:
kangaroo.mp4 - audio plays, no video

SPECIAL / XCD:
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4.dat - no playback

VIDEO:
asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - image freeze on first frame
asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE


VIDEO / ANAMORPHIC:
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - plays video did not test properly as player has anamorphic setting
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 - plays video


VIDEO / AVC:
avc-base_nero.mp4 – NO play

VIDEO / B-FRAMES:
asp-1b-pb_divx_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4 - no play
asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-3b_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - WORKS FINE
asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 - no play

VIDEO / CHAPTERS:
chapters_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 - can navigate < >
chapters_sp-3ivx_nero-64bitmdat.mp4 - can navigate < >

VIDEO / MPEG1-2:
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 – WORKS FINE
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 – NO
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 – WORKS FINE
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 – NO

[bond]

thx for the info :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Jeez.... that's amazing, fantastic, bloody brilliant :D

[bond]

SPECIAL / SYSTEMS:
kangaroo.mp4 - WORKS FINEdid you see the video?

[fuel__2001]

Hi bond

only valid for v1/2:
the Test CD is a burning image because it also includes a file stored in mode2form2 (xcd). it should be burnable in any of the big burning programs (eg nero)


Have download MP4_TestCD_v3.7z and have tried burning as an image and changing the file extension to iso and rar, what am i doing wrong thats stopping me from burning this file to disk?

Thanks

John

[telemachus]

did you see the video?


aah, no, just heard some funny sound effects, sorry, thought it was an audio file.

mark.

[bond]

Have download MP4_TestCD_v3.7z and have tried burning as an image and changing the file extension to iso and rar, what am i doing wrong thats stopping me from burning this file to disk?.7z is an archive like .zip (no, you can rename .7z to .zip)
unpack it with 7zip or newest versions of winrar handle it too iirc

aah, no, just heard some funny sound effects, sorry, thought it was an audio file.no, its a basic mpeg-4 systems animation stream. if you are interest in how it looks like try osmo4

[telemachus]

no, its a basic mpeg-4 systems animation stream. if you are interest in how it looks like try osmo4

keh?
osmo4?
sounds like a food colourant... what is it?

[bond]

systems player

[telemachus]

systems player


AKA computer?

[bond]

osmo4 is a software player that is able to play mpeg-4 systems content ;)

[telemachus]

ok kapish!

[SeeMoreDigital]

More "systems" capable software media players are required though ;)

[fuel__2001]

Just finished testing with MP4_TestCD_v3

Audio

Audio / Mpeg-1 / Mp1
mp1_mp4creator.mp4 - hear tone

Audio / Mpeg-1 / mp2
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - works fine
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - works fine

Audio / Mpeg-1 / mp3
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - works fine
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - works fine
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - works fine
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - works fine

Audio / mpeg-2
aac-lc_vbr-faac_sp-3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine

Audio / mpeg-4
aac-he_expl1_vbr-nero_sp-3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine
aac-he_expl2_vbr-nero_sp-3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - no audio
aac-he_impl_vbr-nero_sp-3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - works fine
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - works fine
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - works fine
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - lags at start
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4 - works fine
aac-ps_vbr-winamp_sp-3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine

Audio / mpeg-4 / multiaudio
aac-lc_vbr-nero_x2_sp-nero_nero.mp4 - works fine

Audio / mpeg-4 / multichannel
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - hear all 6 channels,wrong speakers


Special
Special / Chapters
chapters_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 - works fine
chapters_sp-3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine
chapters_sp-3ivx_nero-64bitmdat.mp4 - works fine

special / delay
delay_5sec_aac-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - works fine

special / pictures
jpg_mp4box.mp4 - no playback
png_mp4box.mp4 - no playback

special / private
alac_itunes.m4a - not shown in menu

special / subtitles / timedtext
advanced_P-3GPPtext-e-02-00.mp4 - no subs
advanced_P-3GPPtext-e-03-00.mp4 - no subs
advanced_P-3GPPtext-e-04-00.mp4 - no subs
advanced_P-3GPPtext-e-05-00.mp4 - no subs
advanced_P-3GPPtext-e-07-00.mp4 - no subs
advanced_P-3GPPtext-e-08-00.mp4 - no subs
timedtext_mp4box.mp4 - no subs

special / subtitles / vobsub
vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4 - works fine

special / subtitles / vobsub / multisubs
vobsub_x2_sp-nero_nero.mp4 - works fine

special / systems
kangaroo.mp4 - audio plays / no video

video
video / mpeg1-2
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg1-tmpg_vbr-B2_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg1-tmpg_vbr-B2_mp4creator.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg2-tmpg_vbr-B2_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
mpeg2-tmpg_vbr-B2_mp4creator.mp4 - video plays / no audio

video / mpeg-4 / asp
asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - no play
asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio

video / mpeg-4 / asp / anamorphic
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 - no play

video / mpeg-4 / asp / b-frames
asp-1b-pb_divx_3ivx.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-3b_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio
asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4 - no play

video / mpeg-4 / asp / vfr
sp-vfr_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - video plays / no audio

video / mpeg-4 / avc
avc-base_b0_nero.mp4 - no play
avc-high_b3_arbitraryframeorder_x264.mp4 - no play
avc-main_b0_arbitraryframeorder_mainconcept_mp4box.mp4 - no play
avc-main_b3_x264.mp4 - no play

[SeeMoreDigital]

With the aid of fuel__2001 and telemachus observations, I guess that makes the Yamada DVX-6700 (with New Age v4 firmware).... the latest "must have" all-round player ;)

I gather the Yamada DVX-6700 runs on an MediaTek MT1389DE chip-set. Can either of you guys confirm?


Cheers

[bond]

aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4 - lags at startthis one is strange. for telemachus it worked fine
any more detailed findings on this one?

aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - hear all 6 channels,wrong speakers thats also strange
have you tried other 5.1 aac files and checked if they are correct? are you sure your speakers are set up correctly?

[telemachus]

this one is strange. for telemachus it worked fine
any more detailed findings on this one?


hello bond and all,
yes, he is right, when you press play, the video starts immediately, and the audio lags about a second behind, but it catches up and by the end of the 10 (or so) second clip, AV are in sync.

I have not tested the 6 speaker thing, perhaps on the weekend.
Cheers,
Mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have not tested the 6 speaker thing, perhaps on the weekend.As a cross reference you should try checking the outputs with 6Ch AC3 "speaker mapping" test file (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/MPEG-4_with_6Ch_AC3_in_AVI.7z) too!


Cheers

[fuel__2001]

Hi

Been away for a few days so not been able to respond

aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 - hear all 6 channels,wrong speakers

not very clear really what i was trying to say, i have also tested

6Ch AC3 "speaker mapping" test file

I have been using the coaxial output from the yamada to my external 5.1 decoder, now the wire is not in very good shape and is liable to fall apart any moment, so im not sure if this is helping to give correct results.

With both files I do get sound from all speakers however this is what i hear from each speaker

LF - I aslo hear LS+LFE
RF - I also hear LS
LS - I also hear RF+LF+RS+LFE
RS - I also hear RF+LF+LS+LFE

@ Telemachus
AUDIO / MPEG4 / MULTICHANNEL:
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4 DID NOT TEST PROPERLY but heard Lf Rf ... LFE from stereo system


Are you using coaxial output to an external decoder? If you are try changing the spdif output to manual and the other setiings to pcm you should then get all speakers working

[telemachus]

Hello guys,

I just tested my Yamada 6700 with the 6ch speaker mapping test file and here is what i did and found:

connected my stereo system to LF and RF and heard LF RF LFE
connected my stereo system to LS and RS and heard LS RS
connected my stereo system to center and SW and heard Center only.

What is SW ?

Mark

[SeeMoreDigital]

I presume (hope) you guys are remembering to use the Yamada's 6Ch "analogue" outputs, when testing the channel mapping of AAC files!


Cheers

[ricardo.santos]

What is SW ?

Subwoofer

[fuel__2001]

I presume (hope) you guys are remembering to use the Yamada's 6Ch "analogue" outputs, when testing the channel mapping of AAC files!


Cheers

Well was only messing with the latest moded firmware that couldnt play DTS i realised that i may have got something wrong with my results.

I have been using the coaxial output from the yamada to my external 5.1 decoder. I now think the external decoder has been my trouble all along, thanks SeeMoreDigital the penny has finally dropped, hehehe, my external decoder cannot decode AAC 5.1 stream via coaxial.

If i selected PCM from the players audio config I would hear this from speakers
LF - I aslo hear LS+LFE
RF - I also hear LS
LS - I also hear RF+LF+RS+LFE
RS - I also hear RF+LF+LS+LFE

If i selected RAW i would hear this from the speakers
LF
RF
LFE.

I think the yamada is only being used as a pass through for 5.1 AAC via coaxial.

Using 6Ch AC3 "speaker mapping" test file I managed to get it to work because the player is passing the AC3 stream to my external decoder, which it can decode via coaxial so i hear the correct audio from the correct speaker.

So it seems its all about the audio speaker setup of the player.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Using 6Ch AC3 "speaker mapping" test file I managed to get it to work because the player is passing the AC3 stream to my external decoder, which it can decode via coaxial so i hear the correct audio from the correct speaker.

So it seems its all about the audio speaker setup of the player.What channel mapping do you get when you play my, 6Ch AC3 "speaker mapping" test file and listen to it via the 6Ch analogue outputs?


Cheers

[fuel__2001]

What channel mapping do you get when you play my, 6Ch AC3 "speaker mapping" test file and listen to it via the 6Ch analogue outputs?


Cheers

I cant help there as I dont have any speaker to connect directly to the player. At least your file works digitally via my external decoder. Thats what made me realise late last night about the AAC 5.1 not being mapped correctly.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I cant help there as I dont have any speaker to connect directly to the player. At least your file works digitally via my external decoder. Thats what made me realise late last night about the AAC 5.1 not being mapped correctly.Just to let you know.... It's impossible to determine if a 6Ch AAC stream is correctly mapped if you are connecting via SPDIF. The only way you can do this is via the analogue audio outputs ;)


Cheers

[dvbfreaky007]

Hi,
Can any one share mp4 standard specification document with me?
14496-Part 14 specification Document needed.

Or mp4 header info,

basically i want to analyze , how can i detect mp4 file format by looking its header information.