Test Report: Siemssen(Nero)SCO5000ND

[telemachus]

Hello all.

I bought one and tested it today.

The fist thing I did was to test it using the CD which Bond kindly created and here are the results of that:

in the folders Bond called:

+++++++++++++++++++

AUDIO:

multichannel file plays well:
aac-lc-5.1_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4


all these MPEG4 files play well:
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
aac-he_vbr-nero_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
aac-lc_cbr-qt_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4


video played but no audio on all these:
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
mp2_2lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
mp3-cbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_3ivx.mp4
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4box.mp4
mp3-vbr_lame_sp-divx_mp4ui.mp4

+++++++++++++++++++++++

SPECIAL:

PICTURES:
none of these played, but a "normal CD" with jpg pictures works fine
jpg_mp4box.mp4
png_mp4box.mp4

PRIVATE:
these two showed up as "cannot play this file"
theora_mp4box.mp4
vorbis_mp4box.mp4
alac_itunes.m4a (did not show up in menu)

SUBTITLES:
timedtext_mp4box.mp4 NO SUB SHOWN
vobsub_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4 NO SUB SHOWN
vobsub_sp-3ivx_mp4ui.mp4 WORKED FINE
"normal" subtitles .sub and .srt work VERY well - the player adds a semi-transparent grey rectangle under the text which is placed at the bottom of the image - NICE!

SYSTEMS
kangaroo.mp4 - "cannot play this file"

XCD
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4.dat - image was black, then asif it had played, it returned to the menu.


++++++++++++++++++++++++

VIDEO:

IN ROOT OF VIDEO FOLDER:
asp-adapt_nero_mp4box.mp4 - plays fine
asp-custom_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - "cannot play this file"
asp-gmc-1wp_divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays fine
asp-gmc-3wp_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - image freeze on first frame
asp-mpeg_xvid_mp4box.mp4 - plays fine
asp-qpel_divx_mp4box.mp4 - plays fine
sp_3ivx_mp4box.mp4 - plays fine


ANAMORPHIC:
both play fine
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4


AVC:
player freezes and has to be cold restarted
avc-base_nero.mp4

B-FRAMES:
all files play fine
asp-1b-pb_divx_3ivx.mp4
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4box.mp4
asp-1b-pb_divx_mp4ui.mp4
asp-3b_xvid_3ivx.mp4
asp-3b_xvid_mp4box.mp4
asp-3b_xvid_mp4ui.mp4

CHAPTERS:
both files play fine and can navigate < >
chapters_sp-3ivx_3ivx.mp4
chapters_sp-3ivx_nero-64bitmdat.mp4

MPEG1-2:
none of these files played, usually resulting in a freeze and a need to cold restart.
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4
mpeg1-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4box.mp4
mpeg2-tmpg_cbr-noB_mp4ui.mp4

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now for some comments of my own:

MP3 - the player seems to play every MP3 file I have tried, VBR and CBR. The navigation cannot be done while playing, a pity. The LCD does not show folder number, so it is impossible to navigate without the TV on. It shows TAG info one bit at a time, not all at once which I would prefer. It does not show JPG images in the MP3 folder, which the Yamada can do, nice for getting the FEEL of an album!

DVD seems fine with Pal and NTSC (region 1) disks I have, despite saying it is set for region 2 (europe) and 0 (worldwide) only. Dont think it shows as much info as I am used to on my old Pioneer, time left, bit rate etc... but i tried about 10 disks and no problems at all. Not sure if the copy protection is working either - since it seems zone free!

The tray is very flimsy and the CD only comes out about 75%, and there are no indents to lift the CD out, so you have to poke it out from underneath the tray - very stupid design!

It plays almost every disk I have, except a few. Most baffling are ones where it plays the audio on one part of the movie and not on the second. From what I can see in GSpot, the codecs are identical. I have had video but no audio with disks containing:

0x0055(MP3) ID'd as MPEG-1 Layer 3
127 kb/s (63/ch, stereo) VB
48000 Hz

and

ac3 (0x2000) Dolby Laboratories, Inc
448 kb/s (6 ch) CBR
48000 Hz

+++++++++++++

I dont know what these results mean, if it is better than average, great, ok... but it does seem to play more disks than my brother's Yamada. What do you pro's think?

Later,
Mark.

[bond]

thanks a lot for these results! :)

to sum the .mp4 support up:

regarding mpeg-4 asp features (it doesnt matter what encoder you use, be it divx, xvid, 3ivx, nero...)
the player supports:
- qpel
- gmc 1wp (as used in divx5)
- mpeg quantisation
- h263 quantisation
- adaptive quantisation
the player doesnt support:
- gmc 3wp (as used in xvid and nerodigital)
- custom quantisation (sample uses hvs_best matrix)

regarding audio, the player supports
- only aac audio in .mp4
- multichannel aac audio streams!!!

regarding other .mp4 features:
it doesnt support:
- pictures in .mp4, altough it supports playback of jpg not in .mp4
- mp2 audio in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mp2 in .mpg
- mp3 audio in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mp3 not in .mp4
- mpeg-1 video in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mpeg-1 in .mpg
- mpeg-2 video in .mp4, altough it supports playback of mpeg-2 in .mpg
- mpeg-4 avc in .mp4
- mpeg-4 timed text
- mpeg-4 systems

regarding different .mp4 muxers:
- all tested, mp4box, 3ivx, mp4ui, nero, worked fine (of course as they all should produce the same mpeg-4 compliant output)
- the player also seems to support packed bitstream in .mp4, as produced by mp4ui on the b-frame divx sample

other things:
- it doesnt support the .m4a extension as used by apple's itunes
- it doesnt support XCD
- it supports vobsub subtitles (as used by nero)
- it supports chapters (also if set via nero's dshow muxer in graphedit!)

[bond]

Originally posted by telemachus
ANAMORPHIC:
both play fine
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4box.mp4
sp-par-ntsc_xvid_mp4ui.mp4yep, they play fine, but the important question here is whether they play with the right aspect ratio?

the video has this size: |---|
but during playback it should be resized to this: |------|

is that the case?

[Lord_KiRon]

Very interesting tests covers almost everithing in .mp4 area .
Where I can get such "Bond CD" btw ?

[bond]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
Where I can get such "Bond CD" btw ?have a look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=594994#post594994) :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

This is all very encouraging news!

So chapter seeking, vobsub subtitles and (hopefully) 6Ch AAC audio appears to work.... great :D

Request:
Hi bond, can you either put a link to your "MP4 Test CD v2" in this thread. Or merge this thread into Razorblade2000's original thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86408&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) about this (and hopefully other) NeroDigital compatible players?


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hi bond, can you either put a link to your "MP4 Test CD v2" in this thread.i already linked to it above :)

Or merge this thread into Razorblade2000's original thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86408&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) about this (and hopefully other) NeroDigital compatible players?i prefer each player getting discussed seperated (or at least regarding their chipset) when it comes to .mp4 support, as different .mp4 players will surely have different issues

[SeeMoreDigital]

You guys are a lot faster at typing than me ;)


Cheers

[telemachus]

hello Bond and others,

I will give it an Anamorphic test when I get home... the only problem I forsee is that my TV automatically switches from 4x3 to 16x9, and it will probably look correct on my TV. I will manually set my TV to 4x3 and see if there is a difference between anamorphic and the regular files. That should work, yes?

i also want to test my brother's Yamada 6600 with your disk later on, just to be sure I did not make a mistake!

till later
mark.

[Lord_KiRon]

Actually link is a bit wrong (on 2 bond posts earlier) but that the same thread so I found the CD link : http://mp4menu.sourceforge.net/download/MP4_TestCD_v2.rar

[bond]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
Actually link is a bit wrong (on 2 bond posts earlier)the link is correct for me

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
the link is correct for me Works fine for me also!

Your "MP4 Test CD v2" runs in at 12.8MB. How much MB space does SourceForge let you have. Could you add some more test files?


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Could you add some more test files?nope ;)
i am searching for an alternative server already, thats why i dont want multiple links to the current download location

[telemachus]

Hello Bond

I did another test of anamorphic and as i said it plays full screen on my widescreen TV like any other file, but when I force 4x3 on my TV, the image is horizontally squashed into a 4x3 size, ie there is black on either side of the image on the screen. It is the same with non amamorphic images.

I took the disk to my brother's house to test his Yamada. The yamada could not even SEE ANY of the files! I guess it does not recognize the file extention you gave the files. I tried renaming them to .avi, but when I did that, none of the files would play on his yamada or my siemssen. Why is that, I wonder? Is there something I can do to your files to make them work on his Yamada (which is a pretty tolerant player, so it should be able to play many of your files).

Bond, on a scale of 1-10, where would you place the results I posted as compared to the other players out there?

Ta,

Mark.

[bond]

Originally posted by telemachus
I did another test of anamorphic and as i said it plays full screen on my widescreen TV like any other file, but when I force 4x3 on my TV, the image is horizontally squashed into a 4x3 size, ie there is black on either side of the image on the screen. It is the same with non amamorphic images.dunno what this means
the picture should be resized to 16:9 during playback automatically by the player, just like dvds also get resized to 16:9 during playback by the player (not the tv)

I took the disk to my brother's house to test his Yamada. The yamada could not even SEE ANY of the files! I guess it does not recognize the file extention you gave the files.indeed, the yamada doesnt support .mp4 files

I tried renaming them to .avi, but when I did that, none of the files would play on his yamada or my siemssen. Why is that, I wonder?would you assume that a .mov file would play when renamed to .avi? i hope not
.avi and .mp4 are totally different formats, it makes no sense renaming the extension, as renaming the extension will not create a real .avi out of a .mp4 file (its like when you rename a .txt file to .mp3 and think you can now play it in a mp3 player ;) )

Is there something I can do to your files to make them work on his Yamadano chance, unless the yamada manufacturer releases a firmware update to support .mp4

Bond, on a scale of 1-10, where would you place the results I posted as compared to the other players out there?well it handled what i expected + more (multichannel aac, packed bitstream in .mp4), on the downside there is a lack for mp3/mp2 audio in mp4 and custom matrices should also work

i would give it a 7 or 8

[SeeMoreDigital]

Indeed... more testing needs to be done!

Maybe I should get hold of one of these players to test myself?


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
more testing needs to be done!well my samples are complete (i think :D ), i dont know what else could be tested

[Lord_KiRon]

I heard that MP4 can contain menus too , Is it true ? Does your CD contains files with menus ?
(I have damn KiSS DP-558 and they promised Nero Digital support in next firmware so I hope to test it :) )

[bond]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
I heard that MP4 can contain menus too , Is it true ? Does your CD contains files with menus ?menus are enabled with mpeg-4 systems
as a menu would bloat the package (because at least there is the need for the menu video, menu audio, movie video, 2 movie audios...) and i was too lazy to create one, its not included
for completeness there is another mpeg-4 systems sample included, but actually there is no need to test it, as no player supports mpeg-4 systems (it would be a big thing if it does, surely with special announcements, aso...)

I have damn KiSS DP-558 and they promised Nero Digital support in next firmware so I hope to test itit doesnt till now? are you sure? on kiss' hp its promoted already as the nerodigital player...

[Lord_KiRon]

Originally posted by bond
it doesnt till now? are you sure? on kiss' hp its promoted already as the nerodigital player... [/B]

Absolutely sure :(

KiSS very strange company , on the eadge of "vapoware" they anounsed a lot of things but they add/release them much later if it all :(
Few examples :

- With DP-558 they already promote Nero Digital support and "programing" it by sending SMSs - nothing near , they promise it in next firmware but not for sure , may be the one after it.
The player came out with manual saying it has subtitle support and FTP but FTP was added 2 months later , subtitles ... well waiting for next firmware :(
Also .ac3 (both audio files and in AVI) support was added in last firmware or the one before it , not on release ...

- With DP-500 , 2 years ago if not more they promised Winamp playlists support (written in manual) but until today they did not released it :(

Also when they "deliver" any new feature this usualy means very basic functionality , unfinished GUI and a lot of bugs :(

On the other hand they usualy DO deliver after sometime (usualy a lot of time :( ) and I have quete a lot of fun "beta-testing" for them (no it's not my job I just view any KiSS user as beta tester :) ) but what is anoys me a bit usualy devastating expirience for "wife" style :) kind of user .

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
well my samples are complete (i think :D ), i dont know what else could be tested How about encodes with multiple audio AAC-LC tracks (some 2Ch and some 6Ch) and multiple subtitle languages?


Cheers

[telemachus]

Bond,

Why create a test disk using mp4 isnt supported in so many players?

I thought that divx / xvid / avi / mp4 are just "containers" - so why not use a container that is more universal if what you are testing is compatibility with the various codecs and settings?

7-8 out of 10... hmmm, for £100 maybe I could have found a more compatible player. Which players could do what the Siemssen does as well as play mp3 in an mp4 container? I have another 10 days if I want to return it.

Thanks,
Mark.

[Lord_KiRon]

Originally posted by telemachus
Bond,

Why create a test disk using mp4 isnt supported in so many players?



Very simple , because it's MP4 test disk for MP4 players :) , for DivX/XviD there are others but this one for MP4.

[telemachus]

aah,

do you have a link to test divx / xvid and mpeg4 files with an avi extention?

thanks
mark.

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
How about encodes with multiple audio AAC-LC tracks (some 2Ch and some 6Ch) and multiple subtitle languages?good idea :)
now i just need a sample with two subtitle tracks and two audio tracks :D

Originally posted by telemachus
I thought that divx / xvid / avi / mp4 are just "containers" divx and xvid are not containers, but video compression formats (both following the mpeg-4 standard)

Which players could do what the Siemssen does as well as play mp3 in an mp4 container?none

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
good idea :)
now i just need a sample with two subtitle tracks and two audio tracks :D In that case, here's one (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/ND+6ChAAC+2ChAAC+2NoSubs.zip), that includes multiple chapter seeking too!


Cheers

[bond]

thanks a lot :)

btw was the sample i used in the testcd (harrison ford, etc...) created by you in the first place?
if yes, would it be possible for you to use exactly this sample again for the two audio, two languages sample (using simple profile video (there is a quicktime option in recode for this), to ensure that every player can handle the video)?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
btw was the sample i used in the testcd (harrison ford, etc...) created by you in the first place? No... it was not me!

But I think the 6Ch AAC audio stream you used in one of your sample encodes was mine ;)


Cheers

[bond]

can you plz redo your above encode with the following changes:

plz create two samples:
1) one with two (different language) audio streams and no subtitles!
2) one with two (different language) subtitles and one audio stream!

when encoding both (!) samples make sure to follow the following:
- only use stereo lc-aac audio (not he-aac and multichannel!)
- use vbr audio with 64kbps as target (as i said make sure to no use he-aac!) for keeping the filesize low
- use simple profile mpeg-4 video! (make sure to use the quicktime compatibility tab in recode2, very important!!), so not avc and none of the asp features like qpel, aso (but these will be all automatically disabled when you tick the qt option)
- cut the borders and do correct resizing to 640x...!! no anamorphic resize and no setting of the aspect ratio in recode!
- make the sample very short! 250 frames/10 seconds of talk are clearly enough for testing and keeps the testcd size low
- use a low video bitrate, like 300kbps! thats more than enough for testing

last but not least: dont open the file in mp4ui!
mp4ui changes the original filestructure automatically when opening (!) and might fuck up things...

thanks a lot :)

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
But I think the 6Ch AAC audio stream you used in one of your sample encodes was mine ;)hm actually i encoded every sample myself for being able to be absolutely sure what encoding settings are used (also the 5.1 one, as i have the original ac3 too)
the only exception was the nero encoded sample

[SeeMoreDigital]

Do you require chapter points too?


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Do you require chapter points too?not really, but afaik you cant disable them anyways in recode?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Will these (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/NeroDigital_Test_Encodes_01.zip) be okay?


Cheers

[bond]

thanks a lot :)

may i ask how you created both?

both dont use the 64bit mdat atom, therefore i assume you opened the files in mp4ui, right?
also one file has 1 chapter, but the other one hasnt, i wonder why :confused:

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
thanks a lot :)

may i ask how you created both?

both dont use the 64bit mdat atom, therefore i assume you opened the files in mp4ui, right?
also one file has 1 chapter, but the other one hasnt, i wonder why :confused: They were both created using Recode2 (v2.2.6.1), using the standard tools offered including "Start/End" frame selection.

And sorry, I thought I had uploaded the versions that had not been opened in mp4UI (I was checking the bit-rate).... So please try these (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/NeroDigital_Test_Encodes_02.zip) encodes instead.

I'm glad you noticed that one of them was encoded without chapters, because it is possible to delete all references to chapter points within Recode2 :)


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
[B]They were both created using Recode2 (v2.2.6.1), using the standard tools offered including "Start/End" frame selection."standard tools"? did you tick the quicktime option?

And sorry, I thought I had uploaded the versions that had not been opened in mp4UI (I was checking the bit-rate).... So please try these (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/NeroDigital_Test_Encodes_02.zip) encodes instead.hm, they also show the 32bit atom size, not 64bit as nero normally produces ?

I'm glad you noticed that one of them was encoded without chapters, because it is possible to delete all references to chapter points within Recode2now the chapter is gone? its possible to delete chapters on already existing files in recode?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
"standard tools"? did you tick the quicktime option? Yep!Originally posted by bond hm, they also show the 32bit atom size, not 64bit as nero normally produces ?Neither encode went anywhere near mp4UI or any other tool. So I can't help answer this one!Originally posted by bond
now the chapter is gone? its possible to delete chapters on already existing files in recode? Normally an Mpeg2/DVD source with one or more chapters shows up in Recode2 like this: -

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/4303/recode2chapters9nl.gif

So it's possible to highlight any existing chapters that show up and delete them, like this: -

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/9910/recode2chapters22qq.gif


Cheers

[bond]

nice :)

[telemachus]

hello all,

I have had the SCO5000 for a week now, and have more to report.

I tested it with a lot of the divx and xvid avi files I have copied to CDR and DVD-R. The vast majority played well, a lot better than the Kiss500 I had for a week, but not as good as my brother's lowly Yamada 6600, which could play a few files that I could not, and the Yamdada is a lot more tolerant of the disk it is playing off. I had problems playing back off DVD-R disks which I had burnt at 4x speed, and when I redid them at 2x it played fine. The yamada played the 4x disks fine.

The yamada could also FF with subtitles, but the Siemssen's subs were much more attractive and did not need a firmware up to see subs, and could do .sub and .srt, unklike yamada.

Again, compared to the yamada, siemssen deals with mp3 in a better way, the yamada shows no tag info, only short file name, but on the other hand, the yamada can show cover art in the same folder and also navigate outside the root folder while playing, neither of which the siemssen can do.

On certain files I have noticed the sync drifting out, and pressing Stop then Play sometimes helps.

The pdf files i have read show the siemssen has a Vaddis 8 chip, which is not true. It is a Vaddis 776. I wrote several emails last night to Nero, Zoron and Siemssen, and got a response back Nero already offering my money back If I want it since I said I was buying it partly because of this new Vaddis 8 chip (with 3 warp points and all...??)

The issues I mentioned to them were

1/ when you have a SCART connecter plugged in the back of the player, the RCA stereo audio outputs do not work! They should!!!

2/ Cannot play DVD-RW disks at all (not on the TDK ones I have)

3/ MP3 display on LCD front should display folder number as well as track number

4/ MP3 playback should be able to show the cover art jpg file inside the same folder as the music while the music is playing

5/ MP3 display should not only show one item of information at a time, it would be better if pressing the DISPLAY button gave you an image of the cover as well as all ID3-TAG information.

6/ Cannot play avi files with 3 Warp points

7/ Volume is quite low, even at full level, and should be set to output a bit higher.

8/ Cannot play MP3 and MP2 files which are in a MP4 container.

Now I could add to that the fact that MP4 audio multi channel does not work properly, the surround channels are not working, though and MP4 with two languages and two subtitle tracks can be toggled on the fly using the remote - nice for a director's comment track.

My question is whether to return it. It costs double what the Yamada costs. Of course it can play Mp4, but I dont have a single MP4 file other than the ones on Bond's CD, and am unlikely to be having them anytime soon. By the time they become popular, there will be second and third generation mp4 players to choose from... so wouldnt a cheap Yamada be more sensible now, especially considering it plays more of my AVI files than the Siemssen? (pity about the lousy MP3 display!)

Mark.

[bond]

does the yamada support qpel? i think qpel support is very important as it enhances quality a lot and there are surely more files out there using qpel than gmc (hardly anyone uses gmc)

[telemachus]

hmmm, I have another (600mb!) AVI test cd i have just downloaded which i will take to my brother's place this evening... it does have qpel and gmc tests on it.

thanks for the input bond,
mark

[Lord_KiRon]

Yes , Yamada supports QPel , however I believe that QPel have nothing to do with visual quality (actually if I remember correctly if you enable QPel with same encode setting the quality got worse) it indeed helps compresability , so in theory you can enable QPel and increase bitrate to get same filesize.

Anyway I think the importance of QPel support on hardware players is more from "playability" side , if you get QPel encode and your player can't play it ... :(

Btw: telemachus , where did you read/get information about Vaddis 8 ? On zoran site the last one they talk about is Vaddis 6 :(

[telemachus]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
Yes , Yamada supports QPel , ... indeed helps compresability , so in theory you can enable QPel and increase bitrate to get same filesize.

Btw: telemachus , where did you read/get information about Vaddis 8 ? On zoran site the last one they talk about is Vaddis 6 :(

Hello lordkiron

if qpel increases bitrate, then you WILL have better quality for the same file size, surely?

you can read about the vaddis 8 in siemssen at https://www.siemssen-resale.de/shop/out/oxbaseshop/html/1/images/Presse_AudioVision_0105_DVDsiemss.pdf

which they have acknowledged as a mistake.

as you say, Yamada does support Qpel, but not GMC very well. The test disk I used showed that the Siemssen could play divx and xvid at 6000kbs where the Yamada stuttered quite a bit. Both players struggled a lot with GMC and both play Qpel.

If Yamada could do ID3 tags I think i would return the Siemssen and wait for a more stable system, maybe based on vaddis 8! At this point, i think i will just hold onto it and hope that some better firmware comes along to solve the many issues.

Later,
Mark.

[bond]

Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
I believe that QPel have nothing to do with visual quality it does...

[SeeMoreDigital]

What's this player like at playing Mpeg4 encodes stored on media cards?

Also... can anybody confirm whether or not this player can play/navigate Mpeg2/DVD files stored on a media card. ie: DVD files that include: -
VIDEO_TS.BUP
VIDEO_TS.IFO
VTS_01_0.BUP
VTS_01_0.BUP
VTS_01_1.VOBAnd.... has anybody tried using one of the card readers to connect the player to a network?

That should keep some of you busy!


Cheers

[telemachus]

hmmm
dont ask me, ive got no sd cards for the siemssen...
mark

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
dont ask me, ive got no sd cards for the siemssen...
mark Have you got no memory cards at all?

Anyway with regard to playing .MP4 files with multiple AAC-LC "audio only" tracks... Here's an 8.31MB example containing 3No 2Ch (stereo) tracks (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/3_track_AAC.zip)!


Cheers

[telemachus]

hi again,

no, i dont have any sd cards, still MUCH prefer the quality of analogue photography, and my MP3 portable player is a CD based one.

i will try that file, though it must be said, i had a long conversation with Siemssen support this morning, and they seem to think there must be something wrong with my drive. They suggest sending it in for "repairs" but I fear it will be a waste of time and money sending it from the UK to Germany, only to find they cannot "fix" anything on my list.

They also said, depressingly, that they are not planning a firmware upgrade, and that the player is known to be a bit fussy about which disks are used. He did say they are the service dept and not the manufacturing dept, so they are not sure that there are definitely no plans in the future for a firmware upgrade, only there is nothing he is aware of.

I will send my machine off, and now my wife has recycled my original packaging, so I cannot return it anyway. It is a much classier machine than a Yamada, I love the way it shows what audio and video codec you are using on the screen when you are playing a file and press "info". I like that it is future compatible with mp4, but its a first generation machine, there are bound to be caveats.

i will report back on the audio file you linked to later
ciao,
mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
... i had a long conversation with Siemssen support this morning, and they seem to think there must be something wrong with my drive. They suggest sending it in for "repairs" but I fear it will be a waste of time and money sending it from the UK to Germany, only to find they cannot "fix" anything on my list. What sort of problems are you experiencing?

If it's your DVD-ROM drive, you might be able to swap it over with one from/for a PC ;)


Cheers

[telemachus]

thanks, but no,
what i meant by "drive" was "player".

they think there is something wrong with the player, but really the things i listed (earlier in the thread there is a list of some of the issues) are probably just the way the siemssen is, and not my specific player... i will look at my postage to germany as a very expensive bug report!

later
mark.

[telemachus]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Have you got no memory cards at all?

Anyway with regard to playing .MP4 files with multiple AAC-LC "audio only" tracks... Here's an 8.31MB example containing 3No 2Ch (stereo) tracks (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/3_track_AAC.zip)!


Cheers

hello seemoredigital,

i tried your 3_track_AAC.zip file and it plays some sara mclaughlin type on audio 1, sheryl crow or something on 2 but i burnt it on a cdrw disk and it only sometimes plays A2 and A3... most often the speakers reproduce loud digital bursts of noise. A1 is always clear... but i can toggle between em, and i would guess it will work on a cd-r disk, im just not gonna burn one just for that now.

later
mark

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Mark,

The three AAC-LC "test file" tracks are actually: -

01 Alanis Morissette - Perfect
02 Alanis Morissette - All I Really Want
03 Aerosmith - Back in the Saddle


Cheers

[tedgo]

I've read that the player only supports 2ch-LC-AAC up to 192kbps properly.
Is it true?
'Cos some posts here claim the siemssen as also supporting 6ch-HE-AAC.
And what bitrates are really supported?
Is the player able to play audio only MP4 with tags from DVD+R/W?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by tedgo
I've read that the player only supports 2ch-LC-AAC up to 192kbps properly.
Is it true?
'Cos some posts here claim the siemssen as also supporting 6ch-HE-AAC.
And what bitrates are really supported?
Is the player able to play audio only MP4 with tags from DVD+R/W? tedgo, please look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88680).


Cheers

[tedgo]

@SeeMoreDigital
I've read it before. But haven't found answers.
So, what audio bitrates are supported?
And what is with tagged audio only MP4-Files on DVD+R/W?
Btw. there is claimed that the player plays HE-AAC well. But does it mean that it plays as HE-AAC or just as LC AAC with cut frequencies?

[telemachus]

tedgo

it plays all mp3 bitrates i have tried, very low to 320 as well as vbr.

as far as aac stuff, i havent a clue.

i'm sending it off to be "fixed" today, so will not have it to test aac stuff should you want to post a link to some HE-AAC and LC-AAC test files.

till later
mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
as far as aac stuff, i havent a clue. Well for starters... what does it say in your user manual ;)

But as the Siemssen is NeroDigital certified, it should be able to play the following AAC-LC bitrates: -

2Ch AAC-LC can be set between 16 - 448Kbps
6Ch AAC-LC can be set between 192 - 640Kbps

And even the followng AAC-HE bitrates (but without being able to decode the SBR element correctly): -

2Ch AAC-HE can be set between 16 - 128Kbps
6Ch AAC-HE can be set between 96 - 448Kbps


Cheers

[bond]

i doubt it supports he-aac, cause than it would have been announced (also support for he-aac causes more licenses to have paid, which siemssen surely wants to avoid)

[Skuto]

It will still *play them back*. Not in the best quality, though.

BTW. The one I bought could read DVD+RW...

And playing mp4 from SD cards worked.

[telemachus]

Hello skuto

Can you please test the subtitle text I have pasted below?
I am curious as to whether the problem is with MY SCO5000 or with all of them!

The problem is that you will not see all the text, and if you do see it all, some of them will probably be so fast that you cannot read them.

If you see them normally, I will pay the £26 to send mine back to Germany for repairs or to get a new one...

Please save this as a .srt file and play it with a movie. I would VERY much appreciate your testing it for me. The subs start at 5 mins 25 seconds into the movie.

Thanks!
Mark.

7
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,900
Poorly.

8
00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:30,700
Roger, your muffler.

9
00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:31,800
I've got it.

10
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,000
She tried to
take her life again?

11
00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:42,600
Thank heaven, she's alive.

12
00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:44,000
Butcher...,

13
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,000
I think you've
got a customer coming.

14
00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:49,400
Who's next?

15
00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:50,500
I am!

16
00:05:59,000 --> 00:05:59,600
That for me?

17
00:06:00,100 --> 00:06:00,900
At your service.

18
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,900
Put it on my bill.

19
00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:03,900
We know where...

[Skuto]

Hi,

I gave it to my dad. Won't have access to it for another 2 weeks or so. I didn't notice any problems with subtitles though.

[Skuto]

Originally posted by telemachus
9
00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:31,800
I've got it.

16
00:05:59,000 --> 00:05:59,600
That for me?

19
00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:03,900
We know where...


These will only show for 700-600ms. Wouldn't that just flash by?

[telemachus]

hello skuto

6-700 ms is over half a second, which is much longer than they are up for, and also often they do not appear at all, for example

At 5:43 the word “Butcher” sometimes appears, sometimes not. When it appears it is so quick that you cannot read it. Again, at 5:48, the words “Who's next?” and then “I am!” are so quick that you cannot read it - usually they does not appear on the screen at all. Again at 6:00 the words “At your service“ are missing or too fast to read. If you play the file using BS Player or another Software based player, you can see that the correct display of that subtitle is on screen for at least two seconds…

I bought the player so I dont have to connect my laptop to the TV all the time, but since i enjoy foreign subtitled movies, it looks like i may have a problem with the sco5000, which is why i would like to know if it is "normal" for hardware players to play subtitles so badly.

If you get a spare half hour, i would massively appreciate it if you could test your dad's player for me...

thanks goodfella
mark.:)

[Soulhunter]

Nice, just got this player from the Nero guys... :)

Think I gonna start my own test procedure next week !!!


Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Nice, just got this player from the Nero guys... :) Have you got a new toy to play with then?


Cheers

[tpol069]

I also bought this player, but within 1 week i returned it. I could not get the audio and video in sinc. I tried several brands of disc but without fixing the problem.

I tried these brands:

Philips
Sony
TDK
Memorex
Verbatim

According to the Siemssen service center, Sony, TDK and Verbatim are recommended. However they had the same problems, as with all my discs.

BTW, I just got me a Waitek Vision SLX, witch works perfectly.
This one also supports, qp, gmc and b frames.

[telemachus]

After several conversations with Tech support in Germany, it was decided I should send my player in to be "fixed" but then rip off britain prevented it, £26 to send to germany!!!

so i told them about the massive expense to send it back and they said "we will see what we can do!"

i got an email late today and they say they will have a Firmware upgrade in two weeks!!!

YEEEESSSSS....!!!!!

So we will just wait and see what it manages to sort out.

Delighted!
mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
i got an email late today and they say they will have a Firmware upgrade in two weeks!!!

YEEEESSSSS....!!!!!

So we will just wait and see what it manages to sort out. Well, that's a load off!

So "there will be" firmware upgrades for this player after-all?


Cheers

[tpol069]

Thats nice to hear there will be firmware updates that might (not) fix the audio out of sinc problems. I'm however happy, with my waitec,so i dont have to wait weeks with a dvd playerthat doesnt work properly.

All i'm waiting for now, is a chance that Nero Digital might be supported on the Vision SLX, with a firmware update.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I know I've asked this before, but can any of you "proud" Siemssen SCO5000 ND owners post some more detailed info about this player...

The information on Siemssen's web site is, vague to say the least :eek:

I don't know whether it's just me but they don't seem to be promoting this product as well as they could be!


Cheers

[telemachus]

Hi there seemoredigital

there is no more info and nothing to report
the manual has the same (lack) of info as the site/pdf files

sorry

mark
ooh, btw, i got hold of an sd card with pics on it, which works fine, you can press a button to rotate the vertical pics.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
ooh, btw, i got hold of an sd card with pics on it, which works fine, you can press a button to rotate the vertical pics. How much data can your SD card hold? And... do you know how to create a short DVD test file?

If not, and you a willing, I would like to burn some files onto a CD and post then to you, so you can transfer them to your SD card.


Cheers

[telemachus]

hey there seemoredigital

i have the mp4 files which Bond made for his testcd, aren't those good/small enough, or is the bandwidth far too high to transfer via SD card? are you talking about a very small kbs rate?

just email em to me, mark at videoblurb dot com

mark

[CruNcher]

no custom quant support argh really bad :(
have to test this myself can't be mediateks chip has no problems with those tsts

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Mark,

The Mpeg2/DVD encode I would like you to test is around 30MB, so it's quite large!

I'm interested to know if this player will allow you to launch the encode by navigating directly to the VIDEO_TS.IFO file.


Cheers

[telemachus]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hi Mark,

The Mpeg2/DVD encode I would like you to test is around 30MB, so it's quite large!

I'm interested to know if this player will allow you to launch the encode by navigating directly to the VIDEO_TS.IFO file.


Cheers

i stuck a few of bond's 10 second mp4 file on the sd card and it played about 2 seconds then went to the next file.

if you have a link i can dl and test it.

so your test is to see if the siemssen will regard the sd card as a DVD medium? WHY would you want to know, i ask!?

mark.

[Sagittaire]

Good player ... ;-)

In fact Custom Matrix is compatible with chip's player:
- XviD-CM in avi with VDM
- ND-CM in mp4 with nerorecode

but mp4creator, mp4box or mp4ui are unable to make mux with MPEG4-ASP custum matrix in mp4 (mp4UI is unable to make mp4 ISMA compliant). Perhabs possible with 3ivx muxer and certainely with Nero AVC muxer ... ??!


Complete test in progress with personnal CDR test.

1) ISO 14496-1 (Container)
Chapters
Subtitles
Anamorphic
multistream audio: 2.0+2.0, 5.1+5.1 and 5.1+2.0

2) ISO 14496-2 (Video)
MPEG4 ASP +
1 Bframe
3 bframe
1 bframe + PQ
3 bframe + PQ
AQ (psy)
GMC 1WP
GMC 3WP
Qpel
CM

3) ISO 14496-3 (Audio)
LC AAC 2.0 32 KHz 64 Kbps CBR
LC AAC 2.0 44 KHz 80 Kbps CBR
LC AAC 2.0 48 KHz 96 Kbps CBR
LC AAC 2.0 44 KHz 80 Kbps VBR
HE AAC 2.0 44 KHz 80 Kbps CBR
HE AAC 2.0 44 KHz 80 Kbps VBR
LC AAC 5.1 44 KHz 192 Kbps CBR
LC AAC 5.1 44 KHz 192 Kbps VBR
HE AAC 5.1 44 KHz 192 Kbps CBR
HE AAC 5.1 44 KHz 192 Kbps VBR

perhabs + PNS if possible ...

[BoNz1]

Hi, I got my player today. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work right :( and I'm not exactly sure why. Basically what happens is when I hook it up to my tv it outputs a cascading staticy grey screen with no colour. It isn't a problem with the connections, I've checked them like a hundred times. I fear that it got broken when it got shipped :(. I looked like it may have got handled quite roughly since the power converter was smashed into two pieces. Hopefully this isn't the case though. Maybe someone else has this problem and fixed it? BTW I am in North America (Canada) maybe that makes a difference.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Have any of you guys tried playing any of the new DivX Media Format encodes, with this player, such as this (39.8MB) Last Man Standing (http://download.divx.com/labs/LastManStanding.zip) clip?

For more information about why the encodes are so different to normal DivX .AVI's, please look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88988) and here (http://www.divxlabs.com/)!


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
..so your test is to see if the siemssen will regard the sd card as a DVD medium? WHY would you want to know, i ask!?

mark. Although some players can navigate directly to VTS_xx_1.VOB, VTS_xx_2.VOB, VTS_xx_3.VOB, etc files, they can't navigate to the more important VIDEO_TS.IFO or VTS_xx_0.IFO files!

Both files (along with some others others) are required, in order to preserve the DVD's chapter, audio, subtitle language and menu information.


Cheers

[telemachus]

Originally posted by BoNz1
Hi, I got my player today. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work right :( and I'm not exactly sure why.... I looked like it may have got handled quite roughly since the power converter was smashed into two pieces. Hopefully this isn't the case though. Maybe someone else has this problem and fixed it? BTW I am in North America

hello bonz1
hell, if something is smashed in the box, it was obviously very badly treated in transit. I would get hold of them asap and see if they will pay for a replacement.
mine did not hae a power adapter, i guess because you are running 110volts?

later
mark

[telemachus]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Although some players can navigate directly to VTS_xx_1.VOB, VTS_xx_2.VOB, VTS_xx_3.VOB, etc files, they can't navigate to the more important VIDEO_TS.IFO or VTS_xx_0.IFO files!

Both files (along with some others others) are required, in order to preserve the DVD's chapter, audio, subtitle language and menu information.

Cheers

aah, kapish!

i am dl'ing that zip file and will test it later tonight.

ciao
mark.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by telemachus
... i am dl'ing that zip file and will test it later tonight. This must be the "Last Man Standing" DivX clip... yes!

If you want me to post you a short DVD test file on CD, please PM me your address.


Cheers

[telemachus]

will do...

[telemachus]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Have any of you guys tried playing any of the new DivX Media Format encodes, with this player, such as this (39.8MB) Last Man Standing (http://download.divx.com/labs/LastManStanding.zip) clip?

Cheers

YEEE HAAA...

I tested that Last Man Standing clip, and the Siemssen plays all this off one avi clip:

3 different stereo audio tracks, two music and one with narration and fx

5 different subtitle tracks, english, french, spanish, italian and something else... im not sure of the order.

They played smoothly and the quality was great.

Mark.

[plonk420]

Originally posted by telemachus
The tray is very flimsy and the CD only comes out about 75%, and there are no indents to lift the CD out, so you have to poke it out from underneath the tray - very stupid design!

it *does* feel a little flimsy, but i have no probs lifting the disc out as is.

my only issue is that it doesn't play AVIs (or anything for that matter) off DVD-Rs, or at least mine. oh, and that it defaults to PAL so that NTSC users have one hell of a time setting it to their system (picture rolls so quickly you can't figure out where to go in the menu)

Originally posted by BoNz1
Hi, I got my player today. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work right :( and I'm not exactly sure why. Basically what happens is when I hook it up to my tv it outputs a cascading staticy grey screen with no colour. It isn't a problem with the connections, I've checked them like a hundred times. I fear that it got broken when it got shipped :(. I looked like it may have got handled quite roughly since the power converter was smashed into two pieces. Hopefully this isn't the case though. Maybe someone else has this problem and fixed it? BTW I am in North America (Canada) maybe that makes a difference.

hey bones, hook it up to different TVs or video cameras until you find one where the picture doesn't roll. then go into Setup > Video > and set System (or whatever it is) to NTSC.


LAST question/edit: how can i tell if i'm testing a 3WP Xvid file? i've encoded with all beneficial checkboxes checked and assumed i was using 3WP GMC... are there any common movies that make use of it during specific spots of the films? i've tried a fair number of my encodes and they all have played just fine (Finding Nemo, Dreamcatcher, all of Brother Bear, all of Super Size Me (which fell out of sync on the second disc and didn't recover until i turned it off for a few mins) and a random anime fansub or two)

[BoNz1]

Originally posted by plonk420

hey bones, hook it up to different TVs or video cameras until you find one where the picture doesn't roll. then go into Setup > Video > and set System (or whatever it is) to NTSC.


Lol, I do believe that is the first time anyone has *ever* called me bones :p. BTW did you have this same problem? You are located in the US right? Anyway, I can't find a TV where the picture doesn't do this. So I guess I will just have to play with it till I get set to NTSC. Cheers :).
EDIT: Wups, I didn't read the first part of the post where you said you had the same problem.
EDIT2: Could plonk or someone else tell me which buttons to press and in which order to set it to NTSC? I have managed to set it to a different output now so now I get no picture at all :(. And if someone could tell me how to reset the factory defaults (so the output is right) that would be great too :).

[Sagittaire]

Nero use special feature (tag perhabs ... ???) for LC-ACC 5.1 ... if you don't use mp4 nero container for LC-AAC 5.1 Siemenss can't play correctly multichanel ...

[telemachus]

Originally posted by BoNz1

EDIT2: Could plonk or someone else tell me which buttons to press and in which order to set it to NTSC? I have managed to set it to a different output now so now I get no picture at all :(. And if someone could tell me how to reset the factory defaults (so the output is right) that would be great too :). [/B]

i will do that tonight when i get home from work.

mark

[telemachus]

Originally posted by plonk420
it *does* feel a little flimsy, but i have no probs lifting the disc out as is.

my only issue is that it doesn't play AVIs (or anything for that matter) off DVD-Rs, or at least mine. oh, and that it defaults to PAL so that NTSC users have one hell of a time setting it to their system (picture rolls so quickly you can't figure out where to go in the menu)



you must be one of those mandarins with looonnnnggg fingernails?

i was having some problems with dvd-r's and i changed from 8x to 4x disks (since my burner only burns at 4x anyway) and now there is no problem at all.

i think it is a bit disk fussy, but the improvement in compatibility after changing dvd-r type disks was huge.

later
mark

[telemachus]

Originally posted by BoNz1
And if someone could tell me how to reset the factory defaults (so the output is right) that would be great too :).

ok bonez, here we go:

power up
press setup
right (to video)
center (enter video menu)
down (to pal ntsc choice)
center (to choice menu)
up (to ntsc)
center (to select it)
press setup again. (to get on with life!)

hope it works
mark.

[Sagittaire]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
Nero use special feature (tag perhabs ... ???) for LC-ACC 5.1 ... if you don't use mp4 nero container for LC-AAC 5.1 Siemenss can't play correctly multichanel ...

EDIT: mp4box seem make good mp4 for AAC + 5.1 but not mp4creator or mp4UI ...

[Sagittaire]

CDR test for Nero Digital ASP compatible player (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Download/)

1) ISO 14496-1 (Container)
Mux with Nero Recode
test 01: MPEG4 ASP + LC-AAC + chapter Yes
test 02: MPEG4 ASP + LC-AAC + subtitles Eng & Fre Yes
test 03: MPEG4 ASP + LC-AAC + anamorphic No
test 04: MPEG4 ASP + audio LC-AAC 2.0 Eng + audio LC-AAC 2.0 Fre Yes
test 05: MPEG4 ASP + audio LC-AAC 5.1 Eng + audio LC-AAC 5.1 Fre Yes
test 05: MPEG4 ASP + audio LC-AAC 5.1 Eng + audio LC-AAC 2.0 Fre Yes

2) ISO 14496-2 (Video)
Mux with mp4box
test 01: MPEG4 ASP + LC-AAC Yes
test 02: MPEG4 ASP 1 Bframe + LC-AAC Yes
test 03: MPEG4 ASP 3 Bframe + LC-AAC Yes
test 04: MPEG4 ASP 1 Bframe packet bitstream (DivX) + LC-AAC Yes
test 05: MPEG4 ASP 3 Bframe packet bitstream (DivX) + LC-AAC Yes
test 06: MPEG4 ASP Adaptative Quantisation + LC-AAC Yes
test 07: MPEG4 ASP Custom Matrix + LC-AAC Yes but with Nero Recode mux only
test 08: MPEG4 ASP Qpel + LC-AAC Yes
test 09: MPEG4 ASP GMC 1WP (DivX)+ LC-AAC Yes
test 10: MPEG4 ASP GMC 3WP (XviD or Nero)+ LC-AAC No

3) ISO 14496-3 (Audio)
Mux with mp4box
test 01: LC-AAC 2.0 32KHz 64Kbps CBR Yes
test 02: LC-AAC 2.0 44KHz 80Kbps CBR Yes
test 03: LC-AAC 2.0 48KHz 96Kbps CBR Yes
test 04: LC-AAC 2.0 48KHz 90Kbps VBR Yes
test 05: HE-AAC 2.0 48KHz 96Kbps CBR No SBR -> 24KHz
test 06: HE-AAC 2.0 48KHz 50Kbps VBR No SBR -> 24KHz
test 07: LC-AAC 5.1 48KHz 192Kbps CBR Yes
test 08: LC-AAC 5.1 48KHz 192Kbps VBR Yes
test 09: HE-AAC 5.1 48KHz 192Kbps CBR No SBR -> 24KHz
test 10: HE-AAC 5.1 48KHz 147Kbps VBR No SBR -> 24KHz

[BoNz1]

Originally posted by telemachus
ok bonez, here we go:

power up
press setup
right (to video)
center (enter video menu)
down (to pal ntsc choice)
center (to choice menu)
up (to ntsc)
center (to select it)
press setup again. (to get on with life!)

hope it works
mark.

Thanks, it works now :). Superdump gave me a hand with it on IRC as well. Thanks guys :).

[plonk420]

Originally posted by telemachus
you must be one of those mandarins with looonnnnggg fingernails?


not really, i just stick my finger in the hole until it's stuck to my finger when i bring my hand back up X)


i was having some problems with dvd-r's and i changed from 8x to 4x disks (since my burner only burns at 4x anyway) and now there is no problem at all.

i think it is a bit disk fussy, but the improvement in compatibility after changing dvd-r type disks was huge.

when you say DVD-Rs are you referring to DVD-Video or DVD-ISOs with MP4s or AVIs? all the ones i tried are ISOs with AVIs. none seem to read (most were high quality Ritek G04s before they got shitty on everyone :()

[telemachus]

Originally posted by plonk420
not really, i just stick my finger in the hole until it's stuck to my finger when i bring my hand back up X)



when you say DVD-Rs are you referring to DVD-Video or DVD-ISOs with MP4s or AVIs? all the ones i tried are ISOs with AVIs. none seem to read (most were high quality Ritek G04s before they got shitty on everyone :()

aah plonk, i have fatter fingers than you do!

both dvd-video i have created, single sided copies of disks i have and iso's with 5 different xvid or divx movies or mp3's or images all play fine. A change of disk made a massive difference. I am not even using expensive ones, just 4x ones made by the same Datawrite people as made the ones that did not work.

till later
mark

[alin.selicean]

Hi all

Searched the forum for Tevion, but didn't found an answer to my questions. I bought in Jan 2005 a Tevion DR2004 (Digital Receiver). It seems to be manufactured by Siemssen, although they deny it. The player was bought in Aldi Sud, in Germany, by a friend of mine.

It works just fine, with one exception: don't know how to display DivX subs. I tried various standards: srt, sub, txt. Nothing worked.

I couldn't see what chipset is it using, as it has a cooler stuck on it. I saw an ESS chip, a small one, but I presume that's for sound sys. I presume it uses the Zoran chipset (SeeMoreDigital actually confirmed from what he read in another sources). I saw a firmware update (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=625499#post625499) released by Siemssen by they said that the update was released only for Tevion DVD5000 which I suspect as being the same as Siemssen SCO5000ND. If the chipset is the same, the update shouldn't suite with my player as well ?

I tried to find out what firmware my player is using, but dunno how.

Can someone help me out with these ?

Thanks, folks.

Cheers,
Alin

PS: Although I work in IT, I'm new to DVDs and stuff like this, so be gentle :)

[Lord_KiRon]

Besides chipset there is an "issue" with DVD reader used - if it's not the same it will not work.

[alin.selicean]

Thx, Lord...

I can live with this and wait for an update. But, on the box states that the player plays subtitles with Divx movies. It doesn't so far. Or at least I can't. Maybe it's me. More, on the divx website, the player is not listed as certified, although on the player there's the DivX Certified logo. IMHO, if the player is certified, it should play Divx with subs, with no probs whatsoever. Maybe not Romanian subs, maybe not some fancy stuff (italics, bold, etc), but plain basic subs.

At least that's how I see it.

Suggestions on how to view subs greatly appreciated.

TIA.

Alin

PS: Just found the pic from Aldi here (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5760027262)

[acidsex]

is there any place online that sellsthis player in the United States?

[alin.selicean]

Hi folks

Just found a solution to my subtitles problem on Tevion DR2004.

The solution might seem a bit childish, but... :)

I was selecting the sub file using the "Ok" or "Select" button on the remote control where I should be using the "Subtitle" button. I know it's a bit weird, but... anyway, now it's working and surprinsingly for a player manufactured in Germany, it's recognizing diacritics and cyrilic letters out-of-the-box.

As it's easy to become more demanding, now I have another question: How can I alter the fonts used to display the subs (color, position on the screen, etc) ?

Thanks.

Regards,
Alin

[SeeMoreDigital]

Some of you guys may have already found the following, on the VideoHelp.com web site: -Region code hack posted by Matthew Brett, March 09 2005:
1670 with no disc in the player

Cheers

[Assault]

Hi folks!

I have that DVD-Player for a few days now and I have a question concerning XviD mp4 encodes done with a custom quantization matrix. I know that the player can only play such encodes if the file is muxed with Nero. Mp4box/mp4UI muxes don't work. But I don't want to use Nero for encoding but XviD.
Does anyone know if it is possible to use Nero only for muxing the video/audio? Can you use Nero's muxer outside Recode?
I've already tried Nero's AVC Muxer in Graphedit but I wasn't able to connect the AVI-Splitter with it.Am I doing something wrong or is that just not possible? If it isn't possible is there any other way I can encode my video with XviD but mux it with Recode?

Thanks for your help! :)

Regards,
Assault

P.S.: I hope that question wasn't asked before but I used search and didn't find anything.

[bond]

Originally posted by Assault
I have that DVD-Player for a few days now and I have a question concerning XviD mp4 encodes done with a custom quantization matrix. I know that the player can only play such encodes if the file is muxed with Nero. Mp4box/mp4UI muxes don't work. But I don't want to use Nero for encoding but XviD.first of all its wrong that mp4ui/mp4box muxes dont work!
.mp4 files are .mp4 files, it doesnt matter what muxer/encoder or whatever was used to create them (unless that tool is buggy of course, which definitely isnt the case for mp4box)

you are right, someone else already reported that the custom matrix, hvs-best, doesnt work on a sample encoded with xvid
you can read such reports here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88680&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) and here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88680&perpage=20&pagenumber=3), which also show that files created with mp4box/mp4ui indeed work


so the only important question is:
are you sure that a nero encode with the hvs-best matrix works inside .mp4 on the siemmssen?
i think its more likely that the siemmsen doesnt support custom matrices in mp4 at all

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
so the only important question is:
are you sure that a nero encode with the hvs-best matrix works inside .mp4 on the siemmssen?
i think its more likely that the siemmsen doesnt support custom matrices in mp4 at all This is my feeling about the custom matrix situation too!

On a different note. Does anybody have any contact details for Siemssen and know were their firmware updates will be available from?

I think it might be time to contact Siemssen with some firmware requests!


Cheers

[Soulhunter]

-> E-Mail Support (http://tw.teknihall.de/taskwatcher/servlet/taskwatcher/template/Indexsiemssen.vm/action/LocaleAction)

-> Firmware (http://www.siemssen.de/working/layout_4/php/service_2.php?content=downloads)


Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks Soulhunter,

I visited Siemssen's firmware page... but could not find anything referring to the SCO5000ND player.

Is it just me?


Cheers

[Latexxx]

Choose System: Firmware and then click Anzeigen.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Latexxx
Choose System: Firmware and then click Anzeigen. Thanks Latexxx,

I can see now that Siemssen refer to the player as "SCO 5000 ND", rather than "SCO5000ND"

EDIT:
I can also see that the latest firmware offers the following: -Feb, 04 2005
new Release which fixes or adds following points:

- improved Support of add. DVD+RW
- Jpeg Display now optional in Original Size or "Fit to screen"
- New Skin Design of Setup Menu
- New Data Menu Design
- AUTOPLAY for ISO File-CD or -DVD
- Improved Nero-Digital Playback
- Detection of not supported Nero Digital Profiles.
Supported are: Mobile-, Portable-, Standard- and Cinema*-Profiles
- Detection of Nero-Digital (DRM) protected Files
- Display of File extension Icon as AVI, JPEG etc.
- improved Xvid GMC Playback (not 100% now)
- improved external Subtitle and AV-Synchronisation on DivX and Xvid Files
Cheers

[Sagittaire]

Originally posted by Assault
I have that DVD-Player for a few days now and I have a question concerning XviD mp4 encodes done with a custom quantization matrix. I know that the player can only play such encodes if the file is muxed with Nero. Mp4box/mp4UI muxes don't work. But I don't want to use Nero for encoding but XviD.
Does anyone know if it is possible to use Nero only for muxing the video/audio? Can you use Nero's muxer outside Recode?
I've already tried Nero's AVC Muxer in Graphedit but I wasn't able to connect the AVI-Splitter with it.Am I doing something wrong or is that just not possible? If it isn't possible is there any other way I can encode my video with XviD but mux it with Recode?


xvid + CM + mp4box -> don't work with Siemssen
Nero ASP + CM + neromux -> work with Siemssen
MPEG4 ASP (NDASP or XviD) + avimux -> work with Siemssen

conclusion: problem with mp4box or special mux with neromux and MPEG4 ASP + CM for Siemssen ... ??!

IMO the problem is mp4box + mpeg4 asp + CM

[bond]

sagittaire, can you plz also mux the xvid.avi into .mp4 with mp4creator and try this one
its important that you first demux to raw .m4v with the avi2raw tool from mpeg4ip and than feed mp4creator the raw .m4v (and not the .avi)

[Assault]

Hi Bond!

first of all its wrong that mp4ui/mp4box muxes dont work!
.mp4 files are .mp4 files, it doesnt matter what muxer/encoder or whatever was used to create them (unless that tool is buggy of course, which definitely isnt the case for mp4box)

I know that both mp4ui and mp4box produce spec compliant mp4 files. I just supposed that Nero does anything special when muxing mp4 files (anything not related to the mp4 specifications but in coorperation with Siemssen)to make them work on the Siemssen.

so the only important question is:
are you sure that a nero encode with the hvs-best matrix works inside .mp4 on the siemmssen?
i think its more likely that the siemmsen doesnt support custom matrices in mp4 at all

I've never tried Nero Recode. I just tried different custom matrices in avi which all worked on the Siemssen. Furthermore I read in Sagittaire's posts that Nero Recode ASP encodes done with a custom matrix work on the Siemssen as well. So I wondered if there isn't the possibility to use Recode just for muxing the mp4 file.

sagittaire, can you plz also mux the xvid.avi into .mp4 with mp4creator and try this one
its important that you first demux to raw .m4v with the avi2raw tool from mpeg4ip and than feed mp4creator the raw .m4v (and not the .avi)

I'm going to try that today. I'll post the results later.

Regards

[bond]

Originally posted by Assault
I just supposed that Nero does anything special when muxing mp4 files (anything not related to the mp4 specifications but in coorperation with Siemssen)to make them work on the Siemssen.no, i doubt thats the case, from my point of view the nero files are totally normal. why should nero produce always spec compliant files and only do some strange things with custom matrices, this makes no sense

i think there is more a bug somewhere, either in the siemssen firmware or in mp4box, thats why i asked sagittaire to check whether mp4creator .mp4 files work, cause this will tell us whether its likely to be mp4box' fault or not

[Assault]

Hi bond!

As you proposed I muxed my Xvid HVS-best encode with mp4creator. I first demuxed the the video stream with avi2raw to m4v and then used mp4creator with that command line: mp4creator -create=input.m4v -rate=25 output.mp4
The result was the same as with mp4box. The Siemssen Player can't play it.
But perhaps there's also something wrong with my command line because my test video has 99 frames but when muxed with mp4creator it plays very jerky and the length is 5(!) seconds. When muxed with mp4box playback is good(on the PC).

Regards

[bond]

make sure you use the latest version of mp4creator: 1.2.12 (http://www.aziendeassociate.it/cd.asp?dir=/mpeg4iptools)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Assault
But perhaps there's also something wrong with my command line because my test video has 99 frames but when muxed with mp4creator it plays very jerky and the length is 5(!) seconds. When muxed with mp4box playback is good(on the PC). Have you tried using Mezzanine's latest version of MP4BoxGUI v0.14... Which is available here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=617798#post617798) - but marked as v0.13!

You will also need Micro$oft .NET installed.

It might not make any difference to the muxing... but you never know!


Cheers

[bond]

mp4boxgui is simply a gui for mp4box, so if mp4box works there is no need to waste time on testing mp4boxgui too ;)

[BoNz1]

Hi, I'm having problems getting video encoded by the latest XviD 1.1 beta 2 builds to play in my Siemssen. In short they will not play at all, or will just play the first couple seconds. I assume the reason for this behavior is this (http://list.xvid.org/pipermail/xvid-devel/2005-April/004960.html) but does anyone know how to fix one of these streams? Once my encodes were done, I deleted all the sources and I don't want to encode them again if I can just fix something in the user data.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Can you explain a little more about your XviD encodes (for us non code understanding types)?

Are you having problems playing XviD encodes generated in Simple Profile only. Or encodes containing B-VOP, or other ASP implementations?

For instance, a few weeks ago I noticed that one of my hardware playback devices did not like XviD encodes containing B-VOP, Adaptive Quantization and VHQ... As soon as VHQ was unchecked, they played fine!


Cheers

[BoNz1]

Hi, the encodes were all generated using the latest build from the XviD cvs. Most of them used 2 bframes (unpacked), qpel, vhq4, bframe vhq, turbo, chroma motion, and trellis quantization. I also used the DXN HT NTSC profile because I wanted to use the VBV. I changed some of the code in the vfw to allow me to use qpel along with the DXN HT profile (otherwise I can't use the VBV). Maybe that is the problem? I'm not sure.

[bond]

bonzi, you used a dxn profile together with unpacked b-frames? if yes, than i think i know whats causing your problem:
i assume when using b-frames together with a dxn profile that xvid writes still the "DivX503b1393p" line into the userdata. the "p" at the end signals that the stream is packed. now if xvid isnt smart enough to check whether the you ticked packed bitstream or not but simply always write "DivX503b1393p" than your player will think the streams is packed and handle it as if it where packed (but still of course it isnt packed and therefore borks)

try changing the "p" at the end of the user data to "n" and/or try deleting the divx entry at all with mpeg4modifier

i have posted this already on the xvid maillist and pointed to this thread, so some xvid devs hopefully read this and fix it, as if its the case, its definitely a xvid bug

[SeeMoreDigital]

All darn good points bond ;)

[BoNz1]

Originally posted by bond

try changing the "p" at the end of the user data to "n" and/or try deleting the divx entry at all with mpeg4modifier

i have posted this already on the xvid maillist and pointed to this thread, so some xvid devs hopefully read this and fix it, as if its the case, its definitely a xvid bug

Hmm. Yes, thats what I thought. However, the only thing in the user data is XviD0038. Which must mean that the build I used was before these changes from suxen_drol for DXN compatibility were checked into the cvs. Which is really peculiar since, there must be something else wrong with these files. I guess I could try to add DivX503b1393n to the user data and see if that helps.

[bond]

i found that its very likely that the custom matrix streams nerodigital produces in reality dont use custom matrices, but simply mpeg quantisation
thats why the players played the nerodigital "custom matrix streams", but not the ones created with xvid in mp4

read more here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93513

[BoNz1]

Hi, I created a file yesterday to play in my player. Here are the features I used:

Cinema Plus NTSC (Uses VBV)
H.263
B-frames 2
Qpel
VHQ 4 + Bframe VHQ
Trellis
Stereo LC AAC audio
Muxed with YAMP w/ chapters and soft subs

Anyway, the stream does not play in my player properly. I suspect the reason for this is that the Cinema Plus Profile does not allow you to not use packed bitstream. I have requested in the past for XviD to allow setting VBV values in the unrestricted profile. It stutters. Perhaps I'll try unpacking the bitstream and trying again. I will also make a feature request for VBV in unrestricted profile in XviD.

[BoNz1]

Update. I extracted the video from the mp4 and it seems it is not packed. Does mp4box detect that the avi is packed and unpacks it? So I dunno what is wrong. Everything I used should be compatible.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Update. I extracted the video from the mp4 and it seems it is not packed. Does mp4box detect that the avi is packed and unpacks it? So I dunno what is wrong. Everything I used should be compatible.Yes, MP4Box/YAMB is able to detect packed bitstream in AVI and remove it before muxing into MP4...

Are you ableto generate a 10MB (or less) sample an e-mail it to me please?


Cheers

[BoNz1]

Yes, MP4Box/YAMB is able to detect packed bitstream in AVI and remove it before muxing into MP4...

Are you ableto generate a 10MB (or less) sample an e-mail it to me please?


Cheers

Yes, I can do that. I should be able to get you a 3-4MB file.

Update: Ok sent :).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi BoNz1,

When I tried playing your sample in the my Zensonic Z500 it would not play either!

However, after de-muxing the streams with YAMB I was able to individually play the "video" and "audio" streams without any issues. So this would suggest it's the TTTX subtitles that are causing the problems.

By design NeroDigital Certified players support VOBsubs ;)


Cheers

[BoNz1]

SMD, yep that sounds quite possible. I will remove the TTTX subs and try again today.
EDIT: Yeah that was the problem. Thanks it works now.