Creating an MPEG-4 compliant CD

[Inventive Software]

I haven't seen this anywhere on the whole forum, which says a lot about my internet skills.

I don't know how to create an MPEG-4 compliant CD. This includes DivX, XviD, WMV, and other compressed video types.

Is there a special container format for it? I'm guessing AVI, but I am not sure if it's different. WMV I know uses ASF.

When burning it, does it go onto a Data Disc? Or is there some other disc type I should know about?

I think I covered most of the essentials, correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

Inventive Software

[jggimi]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

MPEG-4 is a compression standard, that can be used in a wide variety of container files, including .avi, as you correctly surmised. There are many implementations of this standard, both commercial and non-commercial. And as you mentioned Microsoft has its own containers, both the older .asf and newer .wmv containers.

The MPEG-4 standard includes a container as well, which are known as .mp4 files. That container is not as ubiquitous as .avi, of course.

Doom9 has a set of guides, including links to software, to create MPEG-4 compliant .avi files using the DivX and XviD codecs. For DVD -> AVI, click here (http://www.doom9.org/divx-encoding.htm). For other sources, click here (http://www.doom9.org/conversionguides.htm).

For more on MPEG-4 standards, click here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73022).

For Doom9's codec comparisons, click here (http://www.doom9.org/codec-comparisons.htm).

Spend time in the Newbie forum. You'll find it helpful.

[bond]

as i wrote in the mpeg-4 sticky (and jggimi already wrote too) the mpeg-4 standard defines a broad range of things, of which the main ones are:

- iso 14496-1 - mpeg-4 systems (interactivity, animations (eg dvd-like menus)
- iso 14496-2 - mpeg-4 video (as created by divx5, xvid, 3ivx aso...)
- iso 14496-3 - mpeg-4 audio (aka advanced audio coding, AAC)
- iso 14496-10 - mpeg-4 video (aka advanced video coding, AVC)
- iso 14496-14 - mpeg-4 container (using the .mp4 extension)
- iso 14496-17 - mpeg-4 subtitle format (aka mpeg-4 timed text)

you can use only one part, eg video, and combine it with other technologies (like divx5 is often placed in .avi (.avi is not a part of mpeg-4!))
or you can only use technologies defined in mpeg-4 (as nerodigital does, which uses part2/3/10/14, and outputs .mp4)

regarding your question, mpeg-4 on CD, there is nothing defined in the mpeg-4 standard regarding this (comparable to DVD or VCD)...

[jggimi]

Thanks, bond, for the clarification. We often think of MPEG-4 as just video compression, because we think of MPEG-4 codecs. But there's more to MPEG-4 than just Part 2 of the standard.



I'm as guilty of that as everyone else. :stupid:

[bond]

;)

[Inventive Software]

OK, by an MPEG-4 compliant CD, I mean an MPEG-4 video codec used to compress video onto a CD.

My problem is I see DVD players that support DivX, Xvid, and others, but I am not sure if there are any specific catches in using DivX et al on CD.

[jggimi]

I'm not sure what is causing your confusion. But if it's standalone players, then let me try to clarify. Standalone players that can play DivX or XviD do so from data files -- .avi files -- on data discs, whether that physical disc is a CD-ROM or a DVD-ROM.

There are no "Video Disc" formats for MPEG-4, as there are for MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. There is no equivalent to a VideoCD or SuperVideoCD for MPEG-4.

Yes, there are catches. Most, if not all standalone players have codec limitations. There are codec features that must be disabled, bitrate limits, framerate limits, and resolution limits. DivXNetworks has a hardware certification program and "profiles" that one can set to restrict settings during encoding. See DivXNetwork's Hardware Page (http://www.divx.com/hardware/?src=toptab_hardware_from_/divx/index.php) for a discussion of the certified products and an overview of the profiles.

AutoGK is an easy-to-use DivX/XviD encoder that is "standalone aware" and will use DivX Home Theater Profile if you opt to use the DivX codec. For the XviD codec, you must know your standalone player's chipset during install, or else assume an ESS chipset. The ESS chipsets cannot use XviD custom matrices. For links to the software and a step-by-step guide for XviD, click here (http://www.doom9.org/autogk.htm).

[Inventive Software]

Ok, thanks for that. That was my confusion. I kinda figured that it was a data CD, what got me was the container that it used.

BTW, most DVD players have the ability to decode MP3s, so would putting an MP3 audio stream instead of a PCM one in there hurt it? Or does it have to be a different format, such as AC3, or AAC?


Inventive Software


[A little off topic]

I am still a fledgling at this sorta thing. Encoding movies I know how to do, and I know more than the average person knows. But, it's more the little details, such as playing these movies on a DVD player that get me.

Maybe I should spend more time around the newbie forum. Perhaps that'll help my understanding further.

[jggimi]

...BTW, most DVD players have the ability to decode MP3s...

Not all DivX/XviD/MPEG-4 capable players have been DivX Certified. But if the vendor is part of the program, then according to the DivXNetworks hardware link I already sent you to:What audio formats do DivX Certified products support?

The DivX Certified Program requires support for MP3 or MPEG-1 Layer 2 audio within DivX video. We also recommend to manufacturers additional feature requirements for G.726, AAC, OGG video and ADPCM. This would enable a DivX endorsed product to also play back the audio format most commonly generated by digital video recorders. As a consequence, content encoded with the listed audio formats outside of MP3 audio may work but by no means is guaranteed.For example, my standalone player's manual specifies only MP3, but it works with Dolby Digital soundtracks. I have not tested any other formats. OGG Audio is not supported in .avi containers, and my standalone only allows .avi or Microsoft's proprietary .asf, which I would not use.

[Doobie]

My philips dvd-642 plays nearly all of my Divx ;)/Divx/Xvid MP3/AC3 AVI CDs. I'm very impressed in that regard. These CDs were made without any regard or concern about whether they would work in a stand-alone DVD player.

It doesn't play my Ogm movies (using Ogg audio).

While it plays the my MPEG 4 CDs, I'm stuck watching them pretty much straight through. Fast-foward tends to cause fatal errors. These CDs don't have chapters, so I can't advance by chapter. And, the DVD player doesn't have a slider, as PC DVD players have, to jump around. But, pause works fine. :)

[b0b0b0b]

glad to learn that autogk knows about standalones. I just got mine and I'm totally vexed about how to get started.

-can it output 16:9 anamorphic from my backed up version with square pixels, or would it do better with non square pixels.
-ogm, mkv, or avi?
-srt's inside the container or out?
-ac3, dts, mp3, or ogg? inside the container or outside?
-Long filenames or short?
-claims gmc support, but only divx's lame 1 wp? 3wp impossible in existing chipsets right?

long weekend of trial and error ahead, I think....

[jggimi]

...16:9 anamorphic...?

Most players are designed for .avi, which does not directly support DAR flags. They expect square pixels.

-ogm, mkv, or avi?

AFAIK, there are no standalone players, currently, that support OGM/MKV containers.

-srt's inside the container or out?

Product dependant. Read your owner's manual. If it doesn't explicitly state what subtitle formats are supported, then chances are, like many of them, it doesn't support them at all, and your only choice is "burned in" subs.

-ac3, dts, mp3, or ogg? inside the container or outside?

All soundtracks, from my experience, must be inside the container. usable soundtrack formats are product dependent. Check your owners manual.

-Long filenames or short?

Product dependent.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jggimi
...16:9 anamorphic...?

Most players are designed for .avi, which does not directly support DAR flags. They expect square pixels. Some players utilising MediaTek chip-sets recognise and initialise Mpeg4 PAR/DAR signalling in AVI ;)


Cheers

[jggimi]

Thanks, SMD. I'd thought MPEG4Mediator tools were for .mp4 containers. So the answer to DAR signaling is "product dependent."

[richarddd]

Originally posted by Doobie
My philips dvd-642 plays nearly all of my Divx ;)/Divx/Xvid MP3/AC3 AVI CDs. I'm very impressed in that regard. These CDs were made without any regard or concern about whether they would work in a stand-alone DVD player.

It doesn't play my Ogm movies (using Ogg audio).

While it plays the my MPEG 4 CDs, I'm stuck watching them pretty much straight through. Fast-foward tends to cause fatal errors. These CDs don't have chapters, so I can't advance by chapter. And, the DVD player doesn't have a slider, as PC DVD players have, to jump around. But, pause works fine. :)
My dvd-642 doesn't react badly to fast-foward (unless I accidentally hit the next chapter button on the remote :D ).

[b0b0b0b]

Yeah, my rca drc240n doesn't seem to recognize the ar info in avi. I'm slowly figuring everything out about it (you can imagine the dearth of technical info in the manual and on the website).

:~( I wish for a standalone player torture test disk that has combinations of every feature you might wonder about.

[Elias]

Originally posted by jggimi
There are no "Video Disc" formats for MPEG-4, as there are for MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. There is no equivalent to a VideoCD or SuperVideoCD for MPEG-4.But that's going to change with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, right?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by jggimi
There are no "Video Disc" formats for MPEG-4, as there are for MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. There is no equivalent to a VideoCD or SuperVideoCD for MPEG-4.Originally posted by Elias
But that's going to change with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, right? If you take a look at what DivX are doing with their DivX Media Format (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88988) and their proposed .divx file extension... An Mpeg4 video disc format has arrived...

I wonder if DivX have designed a flashy logo for this innovation yet?


Cheers

[Elias]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
If you take a look at what DivX are doing with their DivX Media Format (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88988) and their proposed .divx file extension... An Mpeg4 video disc format has arrived...

I wonder if DivX have designed a flashy logo for this innovation yet?


Cheers I hate the "DivX Media Format." Why couldn't they just stick to the MPEG-4 standard all the way? Like use the mp4 container and AAC audio. Go Nero Digital!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Elias
I hate the "DivX Media Format." Why couldn't they just stick to the MPEG-4 standard all the way? Like use the mp4 container and AAC audio. Go Nero Digital! Unless you want 6Ch (5.1) audio, you don't even have to use AAC audio... as MP3 audio (which can offer "matrixed" Pro-Logic style audio), can also be muxed into the .MP4 container!


Cheers

[Elias]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Unless you want 6Ch (5.1) audio, you don't even have to use AAC audio... as MP3 audio (which can offer "matrixed" Pro-Logic style audio), can also be muxed into the .MP4 container!


Cheers I know, I just don't like private streams, and it's not just about 5.1 audio, AAC provides higher quality too. And it's the standard audio codec for MPEG-4. I don't like the idea of using non-compliant streams in mp4.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Elias
I know, I just don't like private streams, and it's not just about 5.1 audio, AAC provides higher quality too. And it's the standard audio codec for MPEG-4. I don't like the idea of using non-compliant streams in mp4. As far as I know, MP3 audio in .MP4 is not considered as being a "private stream"!


Cheers

[stephanV]

im not sure if its a private stream, but the placing of mp3 in mp4 is certainly standardized by MPEG. :)

[Elias]

Originally posted by stephanV
im not sure if its a private stream, but the placing of mp3 in mp4 is certainly standardized by MPEG. :) How come then it doesn't work to play back in ANY other MPEG-4 player except for the DivX Player?

[stephanV]

?

i think MP3 in MP4 works in almost every player. but you can read bond's MP4 FAQ if you dont trust me. im surprised you didnt seeing your love for the format :p

[Elias]

Originally posted by stephanV
?

i think MP3 in MP4 works in almost every player. but you can read bond's MP4 FAQ if you dont trust me. im surprised you didnt seeing your love for the format :p Hehe, I'll check it later :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by stephanV
i think MP3 in MP4 works in almost every player. but you can read bond's MP4 FAQ if you dont trust me. im surprised you didnt seeing your love for the format :p It now works for me in VLC and ShowTime player!

So providing you don't have any other audio filters getting in NeroDigital's audio filter, you should be able to play Mpeg4+MP3 in .MP4 perfectly in many other direct-show based players!

But as stephanV suggests, please give bonds FAQ a read... as he updates it all the time!


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
As far as I know, MP3 audio in .MP4 is not considered as being a "private stream"!indeed its not a "private stream" (actually private stream refers to streams, which placement in mp4, are not defined by mpeg)

lemme quote the mp4 faq:
- MP4 audio formats: AAC, MP3, MP2, MP1, CELP (speech), TwinVQ (very low bitrates), SAOL (midi), ALS (lossless)

[Elias]

Originally posted by bond
indeed its not a "private stream" (actually private stream refers to streams, which placement in mp4, are not defined by mpeg)

lemme quote the mp4 faq: Cool!