AutoGK suggestion (audio)

[fewtch]

Probably in the advanced options section... add an option to compress dynamic range (i.e. with BeSweet). Most DVD's come out very quiet, and IMHO a simple option like "Boost audio" would really help. Or maybe add it as a hidden option.

It's easy enough to use Virtualdub or Vdubmod to extract the .wav, increase the volume & then remux, but a newbie probably wouldn't know about this (& since AutoGK is aimed at newcomers...).

Just an idea...

[len0x]

Its not wav audio... MP3 volume is already boosted during encoding. AC3 volume can be adjusted during playback in AC3Filter.

[fewtch]

Well, .wav is a container format so anything can be extracted as a .wav (altho I get your meaning). Still think the movies I've encoded recently are too quiet tho.

[fewtch]

BTW, I was able to increase the volume of the MP3 created by AutoGK/BeSweet manually by over 18dB without clipping, using MP3Gain. Ended up with a much more reasonable volume for the movie. See:

http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/

This is exactly why I suggested an option like this... whatever the settings you're currently using, the volume is just too quiet.

[jsprogg]

I agree entirely that the volume it way too quite..this issue has annoyed many many GK users I have spoken to.

[Electrox3d]

My Question is, why is it such a hard question to answer on how to do a one step rip with higher audio? :D

AutoGK has been a livesaver, as my most used converter was Dr.Divx (mainly for ReplayTV stuff which it has a nice preset for), until I needed subtitles for something. Then it can't do it. :scared:

So, here I stand, low audio from a dvd rip, I downloaded and opened MP3Gain, and I guess this is for the actual File of the mp3? I'm about to open the .avi with it to see if it works, I don't know what to expect because no one has explained exactly how this program magically works with your already converted movie files.

I'll let you know what happens, but in the mean time - can someone let me/us know if this is how mp3gain is ment to work with our low audio divx files?

Thanks!:p

[Electrox3d]

Well, I put the divx file in MP3Gain and midway though analyzing, it had an error.:o Not a big shock I suppose as I'm not really sure when or how you're meant to use this program with a Divx movie you've just created and only then do you know that the audio is low.

I'd just about call AutoGK a perfect program with its ease of subtitles, forced subtitles, and wonderful quality of video afterwards (especially the ability to set your output file size). All's I'm waiting for is a program that slips in and out of my .avi with *BAM* louder audio. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Anyone?

Thanks.

[len0x]

I'm no expert in it, but a couple of tests revealed that /r option of mp3gain didn't really work with mp3 files produced by BeSweet as boosting without clipping (that what /r option does, right?) was not possible. I'm evaluating another chain of transcoding via azid->normalize->lame and that produces slightly (upto 1db) louder audio (but mp3gain can only work in multiply of 1.5, so it was still impossible to boost without clipping).

I honestly cannot believe that BeSweet can produce audio 18db below max level and would like to see the logs for that besweet encode.

[BigDid]

Originally posted by len0x
... I'm evaluating another chain of transcoding via azid->normalize->lame and that produces slightly (upto 1db) louder audio
Lenox,

If changing your azid chain, could you please consider using dplii instead of dpl. I am no expert but from what I have read dplii surround seems better (2 pseudo-rear channels instead of one) in terms of ?surrounding :)

Did

[len0x]

Originally posted by BigDid
from what I have read dplii surround seems better (2 pseudo-rear channels instead of one) in terms of ?surrounding :)


links?

[BigDid]

Originally posted by len0x
links?
Here we go for the homework:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34828&highlight=dpl
Explanations by DSP Guru himself

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68300&highlight=dpl
Audio FAQ by Kpex, General n ° 5, 12; mp3 n° 9;

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67073&highlight=dpl
correct dplii downmix with azid 1.9

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27936&highlight=dpl
Differences between dpl & dplii ( 1 pseudo rear to 2 pseudo-rear channels)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58958&highlight=dpl
dplii backward compatible to dpl

Resuming:
dplii is backward compatible with dpl
dplii is stable since azid 1.9
dplii is better because of the 2 pseudo rear instead of one

Now I am completly oriented and I have retrieved only some positive links related to that matter (I have not seen really negative links also) :)

Did

[len0x]

Cool, I have no problem using dplii option of Azid by default. (But I didn't really see any statements like "dplii should always be used now because its better").

[bkf.1]

Originally posted by len0x
Its not wav audio... MP3 volume is already boosted during encoding. AC3 volume can be adjusted during playback in AC3Filter.
Hello, I like your AutoGK very much (many many users to, you know ;) ). But you realy should implement some volume-increasing function in AutoGK because increasing volume in AC3Filter is not very nice. I don't think it's big problem for you because I think that AutoGK is simply batch-processing DVD-to-AVI tool. So please do us a favor and implement this "little" thing. For you it's a little change in the programm (adding some parameter in BeSweet decoding) and for us it would be a big improvement of AutoGK ;) So please do it. It takes you maybe 1 minute ;)

[len0x]

AC3 audio is _raw_ from DVD, i.e. unprocessed neither with BeSweet nor any other tool. So its impossible to alter its audio level.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by len0x
I'm no expert in it, but a couple of tests revealed that /r option of mp3gain didn't really work with mp3 files produced by BeSweet as boosting without clipping (that what /r option does, right?) was not possible. I'm evaluating another chain of transcoding via azid->normalize->lame and that produces slightly (upto 1db) louder audio (but mp3gain can only work in multiply of 1.5, so it was still impossible to boost without clipping).

I honestly cannot believe that BeSweet can produce audio 18db below max level and would like to see the logs for that besweet encode.
Wish I saved my BeSweet logs, but I don't.

I won't take the time to replicate the whole thing again, it's too much trouble. If the repeated claims of "movie is much too quiet" bother you, you can investigate yourself. However, a question: Why would I lie? There would be no conceivable reason.

Originally posted by Electrox3d
Well, I put the divx file in MP3Gain and midway though analyzing, it had an error.:o
No kidding, MP3gain has that name for a reason. It applies gains to MP3 files, not to encoded AVI files. :rolleyes:

[len0x]

Its not a lie, it can be a user mistake. Nothing is taken for granted on this forum unless proven...

[fewtch]

Grrrrrr... :angry:

OK, I'm re-ripping now and will post soon. I may have to rip several DVD's to find the one in question, but I will do it.

P.S. I'm using AutoGK v1.86b and was using next earlier version when I made the comment, so this does not apply to the latest version.

I may also have been using the version of BeSweet you distribute with the latest full stable release of AutoGK. I can't help it that you don't include latest BeSweet with your beta updates. If this turns out to be the issue, it's not user error on my part.

[len0x]

So why bother, if we switched from BeSweet anyway. Better try the same source with 1.87 and post the results.

[fewtch]

Because I made the comment, and then you said you can't believe it. My comment referred to the version I was using... I don't know what the latest version does, as I've never tried it. You say on the website that v1.87b needs lots of testing, and I won't be using it because of that reason -- I need an app that (at least nominally) works properly, can't afford to waste too much time.

P.S. just a suggestion: Why not include latest audio portion of AutoGK (whether it's BeSweet, Azid or whatever) with each beta release, so we're all on the same page regards to testing. It seems reasonable that some people will install the stable version, then update it with the betas.

[len0x]

Well, its been out since Monday and nothing was reported so far (more than 2,000 ppl used it already). So its safe. 1.87 includes manual normalize that should make mp3gain redundant (but I would very much like to know about cases where additional normalization is necessary).

[fewtch]

Maybe I'll install it later.

Anyway, will just make a suggestion and then I'm out of here. When releasing new betas of AutoGK, could you please also include software it depends on (if said software has been updated in the interim)?

IMHO this should decrease any potential confusion and 'user error' in the testing process. Not everybody watches like a hawk for updates to every piece of software on their machine.

[len0x]

Originally posted by fewtch
When releasing new betas of AutoGK, could you please also release software it depends on (if said software has been updated in the interim)?


Not quite sure what you mean...

[fewtch]

For example, I installed v1.6 (full stable) of AutoGK, then later updated it with one of the betas. This left an older version of BeSweet in the \AutoGK folder, and I had a problem with mono encoding (you told me to update BeSweet). If you included the new/updated BeSweet with the beta releases, the problem wouldn't have happened.

Maybe the solution would be to include a "full package" beta along with the beta updates, which includes latest version of all associated softwares. Might take too much bandwidth or server space tho.

[len0x]

That's quite nonsense: AutoGK was _never_ shipped with BeSweet 1.4 (what your logs indicated) and its installer always contains all necessary tools and updates. You must have put BeSweet there yourself (when ppl suggested that version 1.4 didn't have any problems with joint-stereo here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86035&perpage=20&pagenumber=2).

P.S. now you see why I don't take anything for granted...

[fewtch]

I have an \AutoGK folder, and when I installed v1.6 made sure to install all associated softwares (including BeSweet) using that folder as the root... AFAIK I never had BeSweet on my PC at all before installing AutoGK. So whatever.

[len0x]

Basically you had 1.60 installed, then manually overwritten BeSweet and then suggest that every consequent beta will restore version from stable pack even though BeSweet wasn't changed since 1.60. Very useful :)

[fewtch]

Originally posted by len0x
Basically you had 1.60 installed, then manually overwritten BeSweet and then suggest that every consequent beta will restore version from stable pack even though BeSweet wasn't changed since 1.60. Very useful :)
I didn't do this, but you go ahead & believe what makes you happy.

[len0x]

Then how you can explain your logs here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88197&highlight=besweet+1.4

Version 1.60 comes with BeSweet 1.5b29 and azid.dll 1.9. None of the consequent updates has BeSweet in them... Yet I still see BeSweet 1.4 in the logs...


BeSweet v1.4 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using lame_enc.dll v1.32 (8/8/2003), Engine 3.90 <http://www.mp3dev.org/>.

[fewtch]

I did have an old version of BeSweet floating around on a different partition, it may have been v1.40. What method does AutoGK use to locate BeSweet.exe? If it automatically uses the one in \AutoGK then I have no explanation (unless I'm losing my memory, time to see a doctor).

[len0x]

It uses BeSweet sub directory from where AutoGK.exe was launched.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by len0x
It uses BeSweet sub directory from where AutoGK.exe was launched.
Please accept my apology then, I don't have a clue how v1.4 could have gotten into that subdirectory. Anyway, will be more careful about version checking in the future (and saving logs too).

[BigDid]

Originally posted by len0x
It uses BeSweet sub directory from where AutoGK.exe was launched.
I too think that the Besweet 1.4 was installed/tested/tried when there was that joint-stereo argument; at least it was like that for me and I confess I gave the manual install process that worked for me, not the de-install one, the point being how to acceess joint-stereo, not how to not-mess with AGK installation.
Maybe I will have to consider a disclaimer when proposing anything that is not included in the standard AGK :( :confused: :rolleyes:

Did

[Electrox3d]

I stopped ripping in AC3 by the time I realized I'm going to be putting my movies on portable devices. That and I stopped using VBR for MP3 encoding for other video rips as well (would make audio sync off in a pmp). Both of these do not play well with portable media players.

CBR MP3 at reasonable kb/s will give a nice solution for loud playback, and full compatibility with PMP's like the Archos.

[chilled]

"CBR MP3 at reasonable kb/s will give a nice solution for loud playback, and full compatibility with PMP's like the Archos."

I guess this is the only (at least the main) reason whilst CBR mp3 is still selectable (as VBR-ABR at same average bitrate should always give you better results). Anyway I think 128 cbr mp3 is good enough for our ears (in a movie)

[Electrox3d]

Originally posted by chilled
"CBR MP3 at reasonable kb/s will give a nice solution for loud playback, and full compatibility with PMP's like the Archos."

I guess this is the only (at least the main) reason whilst CBR mp3 is still selectable (as VBR-ABR at same average bitrate should always give you better results). Anyway I think 128 cbr mp3 is good enough for our ears (in a movie)

Yeah, 128CBR has worked out pretty good. The only time you really hear the difference is if you hook up the PMP to a TV, or if music plays as an intro to a show. It really kills me to select CBR though, I just can feel all the wasted kb/s.

Oh well, it work-ith!

[therealjoeblow]

Originally posted by fewtch
Wish I saved my BeSweet logs, but I don't.

I won't take the time to replicate the whole thing again, it's too much trouble. If the repeated claims of "movie is much too quiet" bother you, you can investigate yourself. However, a question: Why would I lie? There would be no conceivable reason.


No kidding, MP3gain has that name for a reason. It applies gains to MP3 files, not to encoded AVI files. :rolleyes:

If you really want to re-gain your MP3 audio, just look in the agk_tmp directory where you saved your encode. AutoGK saves all the sub-files, and the encoded MP3 file should be there. Run your MP3 file thru MP3Gain, and then remux it with VDM (in your AutoGK program directory). Not a big deal, but heed len0x's warning abuot MP3Gain and clipping.