How to achieve "film look" on PAL DV source

[TheWolfer]

Great script all!

Stupid question I know. . . I assume it would be better to deinterlace prior to performing the "film look" than after -- due all the frame manipulation, but. . . Any advice or recommendations here.

As well, would anything be different in the script to accomodate NTSC material vs. PAL?

Thanks.

[mg262]

i often heard people prefer hsvI am going to stick my neck out and say that hsv is a thoroughly b0rked colourspace. Charles Poynton discusses this in his Colour FAQ, but the basic reason is that the Value component has no relation to luma/luminance/perceptual brightness/anything like that (and of course the human eye is much more sensitive to luma than to chroma). A much better bet is polar yuv -- i.e. use the luma from yuv , and get your saturation and hue as the radius and angle of a point in the uv-colourspace.

[Mug Funky]

perhaps GiCoCu would be a good opportunity to make a really useful plugin with a GUI? i'm not really hot on the idea of having to use a completely different program just to generate curves. should be fun :) (easy to say that when i'm not a coder)

[Guest]

easy to say that when i'm not a coder Become one! It's so easy that even I can do it. I taught myself back when the 8085 was all the rage, and I was a Technical Writer/Editor for Bell Labs. :)

[Mug Funky]

very tempting. i'm sure it'd be quite easy (and i'm always hassling devs to make little changes, so it'd feel good to do it all myself and offer it back), but i simply don't have time right now :( there's projects i've been putting off for months because of more pressing stuff at work.

but learning to code would be extremely useful. one day i'll do it...

[Guest]

one day i'll do it... With your fertile brain, you'd be a great addition to the coding community. I'll wait for you. :)

[mg262]

Mug Funky,

In the meantime, I think you should post a filter wish list. I've been meaning to say that ever since you described blend removal as "one of the holy grails of" anime restoration...

[CruNcher]

*bump*
Somebody an idea how this effect http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/projects/dv2film/ could be reproduced with avisynth ?

[smok3]

any other ideas on how to fake smaller DOFS? (automagically maybe?)

idea:
this seems to work for cameras that do uncontrolable amount of sharpening (oversharpened borders on hair and generally on objects):
upscale to 1000 x 1000
do some sharpening on some other freq than the one produces by camera
downscale back to 720 x 576

(pal 25p = input = ouput)

-----

question: would it be possible to do random frame based upscaling in avisynth? (this could hide the ccd grill a bit...)

like
f1= upscale frame 1 to 1830x1830
f2= upscale frame 2 to 1845x1845
fn = upscale frame n to XxY

final = scaledowntooriginal (f1 + f2 + fn) ?

question2: i dont see how an S curve could work, maybe C curve would be better? we are dealing with allready curved data (remember that ccd is basically a linear device)

question3: has anyone tryed selective sharpening on dv material? (like sharpen red more than green and blue?)

[E-Male]

*bump*
Somebody an idea how this effect http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/projects/dv2film/ could be reproduced with avisynth ?

try this:
http://e-rels.dyndns.org/downloads/test.lut
with GiCoCu in photoshop mode

[CruNcher]

CoronaSequence("F:\test\color correction\original%d.png", start=1, stop=1, fps=25, textmode=0, posx=0, posy=0)
ConvertToRGB24()
GiCoCU("test.lut",photoshop=true)

result
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/projects/dv2film/prob.png

[E-Male]

guess my quick conversion didn't work

[CruNcher]

nope doesn't seem so ;)

[Backwoods]

Levels in PS:

48,0.83,255 RGB
0,0.86,255 R

Produces a similar result.

[tin3tin]

If you'll get it up and running again, here's som inspiration for some great looks:
Magic Bullet film looks (http://redgiantsoftware2.com/Web/demoBground.swf)

[WorBry]

Just discovered that there is also a Curves option in the FFDShow Decoder 'Levels' settings, with provision for manual manipulation of the curve and loading of Photoshop acv files. Although it does not appear to permit separate manipulation of the chroma channels, it does at least provide the option for modification of luma only. Works for me.

[matthiasb]

I wanted to achieve Backwoods' V2F look. (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=624524&postcount=230)

It's working except not having the right amps. (film.amp, shadow.amp, highlight.amp)
Where do i get those?

Thanks

[Backwoods]

Here you go:

www.flmpro.com/amps.zip

[matthiasb]

Thanks Backwoods

[Dark-Cracker]

hi,

the e-male siteweb seems down where could i download the needed plugin ? (chainmix, GigoGU, ...etc)

thanks.

++

[Wilbert]

I don't know about chainmix, but Gigocu can be obtained from WarpEnterprises' site.

[E-Male]

sorry, my site goes up and down with my PC, and in the last days is was off a view times
didn't know people still dl from it :)

[Dark-Cracker]

@e-male
any new version of this wonderfull script ?

keep up the good work :)
++

[videoFred]

First, the real film look is much much better then most people are thinking.
Grain, yes, but very subtle.
Dynamic range and colors can be even better then digital.
Sharpness is different, less hard.
Detail depends on the format. (8-16-35mm ect)


Can I suggest something?
You can buy old but very good Super-8 cams on Ebay.
Or even on the local flea market.
I never pay more then 50 Euro's for them.
Some of them where the absolute 1970-80 top models.
(very expensive toys in those days)

Film and film processing is still available.
Good transfering to digital is possible.
Many people are working this way.
Avisynth is a great help for processing the digital files.

Now, is this film look or not?
Nothing beats the real thing if you ask me :D

Fred.

[Backwoods]

And that totally defeats the purpose of this thread.

[FredThompson]

Maybe, but it will taste more like chicken if you start with chicken...

[videoFred]

And that totally defeats the purpose of this thread.

Haha! :)

But of cource I did not meant this.

I was trying to say real film look does not have to flicker, does not have that much scrathes etc...

Actualy, a decent filmtransfer does not flicker at all.
Scratches are caused by dirty projectors.
I have lots of old filmreels without any scratches.

But of cource I understand the original meaning of this thread. The vintage film look!

Fred.

[smok3]

the real problem is DOF (if you want to simulate more than 8mm at least) and that is not easily simulated in post.

[Backwoods]

Haha! :)

But of cource I did not meant this.

I was trying to say real film look does not have to flicker, does not have that much scrathes etc...

Actualy, a decent filmtransfer does not flicker at all.
Scratches are caused by dirty projectors.
I have lots of old filmreels without any scratches.

But of cource I understand the original meaning of this thread. The vintage film look!

Fred.

The point of the thread is to give video a puesdo-film look, not applying scratches or flicker.

[FredThompson]

You're starting to resemble your avatar... :P

He already agreed with you.

[Backwoods]

While he brings up flicker and scratches when that was never brought up. Couldn't let it go.

[FredThompson]

Those are typically discussed when people talk about "film look."

"Couldn't let it go."?!?! Zombies are slow-witted, not thin skinned... :P

[Backwoods]

Never said I was a zombie. After using AVISynth for hours I may resemble one though.

Well after 15 pages I figured someone would figure out what was going on in this thread. On the count of three, letting it go...1.2.3...YAY.

[FredThompson]

Ah, well, that's true. I was treating your avatar as your portrait. That can't be you, though, his jaw is moving sideways, not up and down. You'd starve if yours did that.

[Backwoods]

Mature.

On a note RELATED to the actual topic of the thread, I've got my A machine back up and have been fixing the script up. Since new plugins have been released, I've been trying to cut down on some steps to produce the same results.

[FredThompson]

FWIW, Every time I see your avatar it reminds me of an old Mad magazine bit about how cockroach jaws move sideways so they can't possibly take over the world because they'd starve. :P

[EasyStart]

Looks like I came in too late. Can some one kindly re-upload the plugin DLLs for [V2F] Video2Film's AVS scripts.

Thank you in advance.

[EasyStart]

I've found some plugins for [V2F] Video2Film's AVS scripts. There's two that I can not find. They are GiCoCU.dll and Chanmix.dll. Please, kingly re-upload these two filters.

Thank you.

[FredThompson]

GoCoCu.dll

I don't have ChainMix.

[Backwoods]

www.flmpro.com/DLLreq.zip

Chanmix and GiCoCu

[EasyStart]

Thanks all to Backwoods and FredThompson trying to help. I have downloaded DLLreq.zip. Will try [V2F] Video2Film's AVS scripts tonight.

[actionman133]

This one is for people who have been looking at the grading for MagicBullet (mentioned way earlier in the thread).

I've managed to recreate the 'warm/cool hue' available in MagicBullet's postprocessing section, where you can apply color casts. You have the same options, although to a different layout...

Function Tint (clip Last, int color, int "strength") {

strength = Default (strength, 128)
hue = BlankClip (last, color = color, pixel_type = "YV12")

mask = GreyScale ()
mask = mask.isYUV () ? mask.ColorYUV (levels = "tv->pc") : mask
mask = Overlay (mask, mask, mask = mask.Levels (127, 1, 128, 0, 255, false), \
mode = "exclusion").Levels (0, 1, 255, 0, strength, false)

Overlay (last, hue.ConvertToYUY2 (), mode = "chroma", mask = mask)

}

color is a hex number to form the base colour of the colour cast, created by BlankClip. Good values are $FF8000 for orange and $0080FF for a cyan-blue.

I've attached a screenshot from the movie Heat. It tests both reversing an existing grade, and adding a new one. Just note that I double saturation via Tweak, because the colour is quite faint in the frame. The first image shows the original grade (after saturation). The second is an attempt to remove the blue cast, and the third adds a new cast of orange.

Tweak (sat = 2)
o = Subtitle ("Original - blue tint")
a = Tint ($FF8000, 80).Subtitle ("Color Corrected - neutral tint")
b = Tint ($FF8000, 511).Subtitle ("Regraded - orange tint")

StackVertical (o, a, b)


Anybody like it?

[Backwoods]

Looks good. Time to experiment.

[actionman133]

Hey Backwoods, I've revised it a little. The mask was actually halving the overall strength of the tint. It should work *perfectly* now... that's a loosely applied term of course.


Function Tint (clip Last, int color, int "strength") {

strength = Default (strength, 64)
hue = BlankClip (last, color = color, pixel_type = "YV12")

mask = GreyScale ()
mask = mask.isYUV () ? mask.ColorYUV (levels = "tv->pc") : mask
mask = Overlay (mask.Levels (0, 1, 127, 0, 255, false), \
mask.Levels (128, 1, 255, 255, 0, false), \
mask = mask.Levels (127, 1, 128, 0, 255, false))\
.Levels (0, 1, 255, 0, strength, false)

Overlay (last, hue.ConvertToYUY2 (), mode = "chroma", mask = mask)

}

I've uploaded another test, although it's a bit bigger, so it's on my website. This is actually a more complete grade and I'm surprised how well these turned out, considering the limited colour palette in the original frame. Again, it's from Heat and changed a bleak, metallic blue to a saturated sunset orange. It shows each step with the appropriate function subtitled over it. What's great about this is that it never changes from the YV12 colourspace, so there's no conversion loss...

http://actionman133.isa-geek.net:8080/preview/grading.jpg

EDIT: Added linebreaks to the script

[Wilbert]

What's great about this is that it never changes from the YV12 colourspace, so there's no conversion loss...
Overlay converts internally to YUV 4:4:4 before any processing.

[actionman133]

I was originally concerned about this when I wrote my bloom filter, however (at least with YV12) their didn't appear to be loss.

To give a synopsis of Bloom: it overlays a blurred version of a clip over the original, using the 'lighten' mode and a greyscale mask of the blurred clip to reduce intensities in the shadows.

However, when I did a subtraction - Subtract (clip, clip.Bloom () - and narrowed with VirtualDub's levels, a lot of the frame came up blank.... no difference.

Could it be that Overlay expands the chroma via point resize, then uses ReduceBy2 () upon output? That could explain why Subtract shows no difference...

But even so, the slight differences of chroma error are less than using RGBAdjust (requiring two conversions).

Perhaps a way out would be to apply a full strength tint of 255 (which completely replaces the chroma with the tint colour), then use merge to get a midpoint. That would change the strength input to a float between 0 and 1. Would that avoid the upsampling and downsampling errors?

[foxyshadis]

With Subtract(x,y).levels(127,1,129,0,255) black and white are both changes, only neutral grey is no-change!

YUV upsampling errors aren't very important; if done too often it'll start to turn some of your chroma into sludge, but 8-bit roundoff will mostly give you back what you had anyway.

maskedmerge or mt_merge will work better (for yv12 only), in fact the whole thing could be reduced to a lut or two, but I'd rather not convert it until you think it's finished because it'll be nigh unreadable. :p A decent option on the side for yv12 processing.

Anyway, I think it's a really cool idea and a cool effect, I'd like to try it out in concert with HDRAGC. Something tells me this is a filter that will make me long for 16-bit yuv though.

[actionman133]

With Subtract(x,y).levels(127,1,129,0,255) black and white are both changes, only neutral grey is no-change!

The 'blank' I was referring to was the neutral grey.

Regarding your masktools solution, I always try to write my functions so that they don't require external plugins. It makes it easier to integrate with new scripts.

Would my idea to use Merge be suitable? Using a full tint wouldn't have chroma upsampling errors because the chroma is a flat colour that is manipulated at 4:4:4 by the mask, then downsampled to either 4:2:0 or 4:2:2. Then merging it with the original would reduce the intensity of the tint and restore some of the original colour.

That seems to be a plausible internal solution in theory... would it ultimately provide better quality than just using overlay?

[actionman133]

How does this look as a filmizing script?

LoadPlugin ("F:\Core\AVISynth Plugins\GiCoCu.dll")

AVISource ("Desolation.avi").SwapUV () # UV channels swapped
Bob ().SelectEven () # Better bobber here of course
ConvertToRGB32 ()
GiCoCu ("F:\Core\Curve.txt")
ConvertBackToYUY2 ()
Merge (Greyscale (), last, 0.95) # desaturate 5%
Tint ($FF8000, 37) # warm the image slightly
BilinearResize (768, 576, 9, 0, 702, 576)

Note - the Tint line uses the same scripted function I posted just a few days ago, so if you want to test it, copy and paste that function in.

Here is the curve file:http://actionman133.isa-geek.net:8080/preview/curve.txt

And three before/after pics in JPEG format: http://actionman133.isa-geek.net:8080/preview/filmizing.jpg

I think the second pic in the preview came out great. What do you guys think about it?

[smok3]

actionman133, the curve does look pretty good althought i think you introduced some cliping, also the saturation should be lower in the final version imho.

(Color correction shouldnt be necesary if youd get the wb right at shooting time, unless you are going for some 'warm look' feel?)