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View Full Version : Is KiSS and entire idustry falling behind again ?


Lord_KiRon
30th December 2004, 09:21
I had this ideas for some time now but release of the Doom9 "Codec shoot-out 2004" ( http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/codecs-104-1.htm ) just had confirmed it :

- KiSS and entire industry once again building "old" new generation of players!

Why I think so?
Well, let me explain; what we as user expect and can get from DP-6xx and other coming Sigma EM8620L based players?

- First of all QPel , not something new others (MTK, Zoran) already can play it, it's more overcoming of old limitation then feature.

- Another thing High-Def resolutions, this IS the only real advancement, however it's impact will be limited because higher res. encodings take more space so they harder to share. Also there are not that much Hi-Def sources - all DVDs are so called "standard resolution" now, HD-DVDs and Blue-Ray are not released yet and the only source of Hi-Def video is digital TV that increases it's presents but still not that common.
So this means we will use this feature but in a year or so, currently it's just a "safety warranty" in case you somehow get one Hi-Def encode.

- WMV ... nice addition, but WMV files are rare (once again good to have one more standard supported but this is not mainstream use standard) , the only real usage for it is video streaming .
But there we will have to wait and see how well it will work with all this bandwidth , server load and other problems.
There is (ore will be) of cause an option to buy movies thru net but I doubt many will like it at first , not while free, quality movies widely available on BitTorent and eDonkey network.
Of cause it's question of price too, with reasonable prices people will buy movies but knowing movie industry I doubt it will ever be "reasonable price" .
Anyway even if it develops it will take another year or two so buying player just for this (buying movies from net) now is a waist of money and a good toy to show your friends but nothing more.

So what's missing?
Three things:
- HD-DVD playback
- Blue Ray disks playback
- Nero AVC codec playback.
(also I do not know what Nero Digital support planned in DP-6xx but based on it's specs probably "Standard Profile" while I would expect from Hi-Def player at least "Cinema Profile" or better "High Definition TV Profile" - http://www.nerodigital.com/eng/Trailers.html but I don't think it's possible because EM8620L can't do 3-point GMC)

And no KiSS DP-6xx or any other Sigma EM8620L based player will be able to do it. Sigma intend to build new chips for them.

Why ? - because chances are that very, very soon majority of encoders will switch to Nero because it's support for chapters , built in subtitles, angles and multiply sound streams . And Nero AVS codec is VERY good both in compression and quality .


What I have forgotten? - Well new "DivX 6" has to come out somewhere soon we will see that too.

So what's the conclusion? - Very simple, new generation of MPEG4 DVD players we waiting for well be already "old" on arrival once again.
It does not mean it will be a bad players, but it does mean that not going to be players to last , they will require replacement after a year or so and that's surely not good :(

masken
3rd January 2005, 13:12
You are missing one of the most basic things - Working subtitle support.

The KiSS players still can't handle this de-facto standard scenario:

movie.avi
movie.English.srt
movie.Swedish.srt

I e-mailed KiSS about this a year ago, and they said they couldn't release information about supporting multiple subtitles. It was some sort of company secret :rolleyes:

Lord_KiRon
3rd January 2005, 19:18
Even I agree with you to some point but not everyone uses subtitles.
KiSS made a joke of themselves it's true but this is not the main issue of this post.

SeeMoreDigital
3rd January 2005, 22:04
"however it's impact will be limited because higher res. encodings take more space so they harder to share"

Tut, tut... Share with who?

The specification of Sigma's EM8620L chip-set promises to be rather good. Being able to decode Mpeg2 pixel frame sizes of 1920x1080 (1088), WMV frame sizes of 1440x1080 and Mpeg4 frame sizes of 1920x1072 (as recently confirmed), is nothing to complain about!

"but I don't think it's possible because EM8620L can't do 3-point GMC"

As far as I'm aware, none of Nero's Mpeg4/ASP profiles incorporate GMC at all. And neither do any of their trailers!

And in my opinion, GMC is a very over discussed and over-rated ASP implementation anyway!


Cheers

Lord_KiRon
4th January 2005, 08:26
Well it's a bit out of this forum's rules but 90% of MPEG4 players users (unlike you SMD but still) use them to watch content downloaded from internet so question "share with whom ?" is self explaining :)

Also I did not "complaned" about high resolutions , I like it, I just said that there is not enough content to really need this feature over some others that indeed needed and absent.

About GMC... well I agree is too "over discussed" as you say , but the problem is that if someone (stupid, non expirienced, crazy,...) makes an encode with GMC (I know, I know, see my first lines) it will not play on the player and you will have to reencode.

Now few words to avoid P2P/leghal issues descussion - I don't know about you but I am Sci-Fi fan but to my country SciFi shows come very late , after 3-4 years if at all, I willing to pay but no one sells me , so I have use P2P to download TV episodes.
A lot of other people in Europe and over the world do the same.

Doom9
4th January 2005, 09:15
- HD-DVD playback
- Blue Ray disks playback
- Nero AVC codec playback.

Uh, for one, the highdef DVD formats are not out yet, so how can you play something where the specs have probably not even been finalized?

As far as Nero goes, you cannot play Nero AVC.. it's MPEG-4 AVC Main Profile, and that's an industry standard ;) Nero AVC is an implementation of that industry standard, there's another one in x264, another one from VSS, etc. Chips for that format will make their way into standalones in 2005.

masken
4th January 2005, 16:35
Originally posted by Lord_KiRon
Even I agree with you to some point but not everyone uses subtitles. Actually, I did some research on this a while ago - Why subtitles are important (http://forum.vcdq.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10702)

Shinigami-Sama
6th January 2005, 07:47
I agree
even in a few media players suport for subs is off :\
like hte vdub subs
I don't know why but
subs are htre best thing ever
how else could I watch my anime with out having to tear my ears off from, the shoddy english voice acting?
I also like to put the subs in when I make an encode but vdubs are acward and I end up useing hard dubs for easy od use
so
sub subort needs to be an issue
<now uses tcmp so the vdub subs issue is sorted out ^-^>