potentially dangerous file in AutoGK instalation pack

[buk]

I found, that library "dae.dll" instaled together with AutoGK is defined as spyware/malware (by saoftware called "a-squared") and also instals Browser Helper Object (BHO). My question is what is the dae.dll like and why is detected as malicious program. I think it is better to make AutoGK without such a potentially dangerous files (e.g. without auto new version of AutoGK checking). I think that AutoGK is fantastic software, but using files as dae.dll should caused problems in the field of computer security. Thanks for your excelent work on Auto GK and for solving this problem. Have a nice day and holidays. buk

[SiXXGuNNZ]

if dae.dll is spy/adware, maybe the auto update box should be unchecked by default during the install. I like the feature myself, so i will continue to check it, but to avoid people crying wolf, maybe the installer should have it unchecked.

[buk]

Yes, of course i unchecked the instalation of auto new version checking. The program DAE wasn´t instaled, but the library "dae.dll" instaled was. It is not very good, I think. So, this is the problem. buk

[len0x]

First, dae.dll has nothing to do with AutoGK's "check for update" capability.
Second, DAE is indeed a BHO-based ad system (sort of like Google's adsense, i.e. its content based). When installed - _very_ rarely it shows ads relevant to the websites you're visiting.
Third, full DAE disclamer can be found at the end of AutoGK's license.
Fourth, DAE can be safely uninstalled from add/remove programs with no traces left.
Fifth, AutoGK will still run without DAE as it doesn't in any way connected to it.
Sixth, yes, I sold my soul to the devil :) Meaning this is the dark future I promised you a while ago. Its just a way of keeping the project going. If all goes well I'll not only be able to continue developemnt of AutoGK at a good rate, but (as it requires less time these days) also make some improvements to regular GK.
Seventh, system is in testing process and only bundled with beta version of AutoGK so far.
Eighth, it only works within IE (firefox users won't notice it)
Ninth, dae.dll is really the only file installed.

[buk]

Yes, you really sold your soul to Devil. Do you know the story about man named Faust? What he did for money, success and so on? And how he was terminated after having money and success? Don’t play with the Devil. Hidden leaving suspected file dae.dll (maybe another files too) in system after refusing install or deinstall DAE is a very bad practise (in my opinion). I personally admire your work on AutoGK and GK, but if you will play with Devil many users could change their faith in you. I understand your need of money or something else, but chosen way seems to be way to Hell. Please, think it over. Money is not THE ONE reason we are living for. Have a nice day and Holiday. Buk

PS: DAE couldn´t be safely uninstalled, because dae.dll stays in system

[len0x]

Originally posted by buk
PS: DAE couldn´t be safely uninstalled, because dae.dll stays in system

Don't panic. Once you reboot the system - it'll be gone (files cannot be deleted if they are in use).

[buk]

You are right, dae-dll is removed after rebooting system, but terrible is the fact, that DAE is instaled silently. I´m using SpywareGuard a SpywareBlaster so i detected the silent instalation of DAE, but what about the others, who don´t know about safe computing and their protection before silent instalation is bad? There just should be some notice during instalation, that DAE will be instaled. Simple, clear and no problem. Similar to instalation pack of DivX 5.1.1 adware version. Thats what i mean all the time we write this thread. Its just about faith.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by buk
Yes, you really sold your soul to Devil.....

@buk
C'mon, this paranoid thinking is leading you nowhere.
Look around you, all this sh..y browser addons, like Google toolbar, adobe reader, etc. fool you into adverts.
If you're really interested in internet security, don't use microsoft
at all. I really don't know of any other software like Internet Explorer which is phoning home so much.
So if len0x decided to put some advertising code to his (beta) software, he's right.
You want to benefit from his experience, but don't want to pay the price.
Love it or leave it :D ;)

..and of course you can disable it, even uninstall it, without loosing
function control.
As long as it doesn't interfere with the encoding progress, like Divx did and does, why worry?

I try to keep my system as fast, slick and clean as it can get.
But I'm more a realist now. You have to weight out the benefits for the downsides.
So it's up to you.

I think this will be the start of an interesting discussion here on Doom 9 ......

Cheers

Taurus

[jggimi]

Moved to development forum.

[len0x]

@Taurus :goodpost:

[buk]

Hi, Taurus and LenOx,
yes you have a piece of truth. But, in the world we living in, when internet is full of problems and dangerous files, hackers, spy, crime and all other …......, there is no paranoia to keep your own safety, as strong as is possible. As i say: „If they say that you are just paranoid when it seems to you that somebody is pursuing you, it doesn´t mean that somebody really doesn´t pursue you“. And if you want, as Patrick Kolla (Spybot S & D author) say „Bad guys never sleep“. What i might know, AutoGK install pack or web pages might be hacked. LenOx might went mad (cha cha, sorry LenOx nothing personally to you, just example). There is more possibilities. Now, when I know, that DAE is a part of AutoGK from lenOx decision, everything is clear. LenOx has full right to do with his work what he think is the best for him, and others could accept it or leave it. You are right.

To security, I think, that the problem is not only in programs, the problem is in people too. Security problems have most of big programs i know, Windows, Linux, Mac, IE, Mozilla, Firefox. Opera, Netscape etc. Here is no absolutely secure system. A few weeks ago was in one PC magazine (CHIP) test of operation systems security. Tested was win XP, Mac X, Linux (i don´t remember what distribution) as is installed without patches (clear first instalation) and after instalation all patches. And the result? The most secure operation system after first installation was Linux, but after instalation of all patches the most secure system was Win XP. Fully patched Linux and Mac was absolutely defeated. Are you shocked? For example Mozilla and Firefox had, and i dont have any illusions that still has, critical security problems as IE has.

With this knowledge was my shock from sudden using advert robot in AutoGK much bigger, because i really don´t expected anything like that after my longtime very good and secure experience with AutoGK. Yes, I know everything is in progress. Just the silent instalation without notice is surprising, and it reminds me underground´s (hacker, spy) methods. It just mean for me, that I should be cautious to every version of AutoGK. Do you know what kind of robot or suspected code will be in next version of AutoGK? I don´t. Till yesterday i though, that using AutoGK is secure without any special steps. Today i know, that when i install a new version of AutoGK, I must deeply scan my system for silently instaled programs or codes. Nothing more, nothing less. Just another disappointment about perfect programs starting as clear and real freeware and slowly changing in silent money machine.

So this is the life and i can do nothing with it.

Have a nice day, buk

[chilled]

well this is surprising for me. I wouldnt expect to find adware (or whatever) on autogk.
I think it's a personal decision which I wont criticise but I think Len0x should warn of this more clearly on installation or somewhere (not just only at the end of the license or whatever-like).
I am absolutely not worried of DAE in terms of security but the main thing is that this definately doesnt "stick" to this sharp tool in anyway. I am not complaining about making money (milestones and paypal is a much more appreciated way I think) but about a decision that "darkens" autogk in some way.
I think a good solution would just be to give the user the choice whether to install DAE or not, but in the autogk installation process, not after having it on the system. I would just be nicer, but maybe this is not a possibility which can be dealed with the company (whoever).
Id like to know if next stable version will include DAE or if those releases will "never" include it.
btw, M2 is approaching...

[len0x]

Next stable version will probably contain DAE as well, and if it will then it will have a separate license page in the installer (and it will always be installed). The reason its sort of hidden now - I do not want to make a big deal out of it until its certain that system is in production and I will go ahead with it.

[drf666]

Originally posted by len0x
Next stable version will probably contain DAE as well, and if it will then it will have a separate license page in the installer (and it will always be installed).

Will it still be removable like it is right now, or will AutoGK be unable to run without DAE?

[len0x]

At the moment I don't have plans for DAE to be compulsory for AutoGK to run.

[Carraway]

Hey len0x. Just wanted to let you know this is the worst idea ever. There is no quicker way to alienate your users than by bundling adware. Taurus makes some interesting points, but the fact of the matter is that most users aren't nearly as forgiving as he is, and most aren't willing to simply rationalize away their misgivings about adware. I know I'm not.

Let me address a few points:

1. It doesn't matter how harmless or unobtrusive the adware is -- it's still adware (pop-up adware, at that). At least as far as reputation is concerned, people see anything resembling adware being installed and immediately associate it with the kind of software that has, in the past, hijacked their computer, or harvested websurfing data, or inundated them with popups. Adware has a bad image, and now that image is going to be associated with AutoGK. Terrific.

2. The fact that it's easy to uninstall doesn't make it OK that it was installed to begin with. This program is for noobs. You think they're going to be able to disable this adware? I doubt it.

3. I'm angry that I can no longer recommend this to friends anymore, which I have done in the past many, many times. Why? Because I don't want them to come back at me with, "Hey, that program installed some adware junk on my computer." I could rehash all of Taurus's arguments to them, and they'd still come back with, "Yeah, that may be so, but it installed adware on my computer."

I'm genuniely curious to see how the community responds to this development. Most of the people on this forum embrace free, open-source software. So now that AutoGK is neither, it will be interesting to see the response. I'm personally pissed off and feel (perhaps irrationally so) a bit betrayed. Given Taurus's annoyingly provocative "love it or leave it" ultimatum, I'm fairly certain which one I would choose.

Anyway, that's my perspective. Even though all signs are pointing to the opposite, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the next stable version will be adware free.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by Carraway
Hey len0x. Just wanted to let you know this is the worst idea ever.

How many people have this google searchbar (or any other) installed?
Hoe many people are using acrobat reader? Did you notice the blinking adverts?
They are selfmaintaining, that means every once in a while they're
updating themselve silently (just happened today with the google searchbar). They are exchanging dll's and code to their liking.
Nobody notice it and nobody's crying out loud.
Everyonce in a while MS is changing code silently, nobody claims them for to be evil, everybody is shouting hail to the leaders, because they are giving something for free.
So if len0x decides to handle it the same way, he is just doing what everyone on the net is doing now. --to get something back for their hard work.
All this shouting about free community and free software, what a bluff.
Look at Nero. Everyonce in a while part of the program is phoning home, even if you disabled all known switches and nobody is in trouble yet here at doom9.
To make it clear: I don't like adverts and adware either.
If I can't kick it off, surely I will switch to something else.
But in this case (AutoGK) there are no hidden traps. You can use the advert to show your appreciation for len0x work or just disable it
and still have full functions.

DAE is just one single dll and the uninstaller just regsvr32 /U /S.
While monitoring the registry during install of AutoGk, I could not see something obvious ore strange.
DAE belongs to my observations (correct me if I'm wrong) to
DAE (http://www.responsetarget.com/how-it-works/)
So make up you're mind and please differentiate between advertising
and spyware, browser hijacking, trojan behavior, etc.

Sorry for this long post.
But the devil has nothing in here :devil: ;) ,
just plain manpower...

Cheers

Taurus

...who killed hundred of viruses, hoaxes, spies and hitchhikers :D :p

[fuct]

Which beta version did you start putting the adware into? I thought I saw the answer in one of these threads, but now I cannot find it.

Also,
This isn't something that is going to be added to the original GK, correct?

[Carraway]

Originally posted by Taurus
How many people have this google searchbar (or any other) installed?
Hoe many people are using acrobat reader? Did you notice the blinking adverts?
They are selfmaintaining, that means every once in a while they're
updating themselve silently (just happened today with the google searchbar). They are exchanging dll's and code to their liking.

I don't see the connection between the Google/Adobe programs and AutoGK's adware. Just to be clear, if AutoGK was just "phoning home" or "updating" itself as the Google & Adobe programs do, I would have absolutely no problem with it. As a matter of fact, I don't have a problem with it when it checks for a new version (if I did, I would opt out by unchecking the box upon install). My problem lies in the fact that now, as a condition of installing AutoGK, I'm forced to install a separate, unwanted program that monitors my browsing and delivers unwanted ads.

The Google toolbar and Adobe reader themselves are not analagous to what AutoGK is now doing. If Google and Adobe started surreptiously bundling this very same RESPONSETARGET adware along with their products, I would be just as angry.

Originally posted by Taurus
Nobody notice it and nobody's crying out loud.

Well, this was clearly len0x's intention, considering that he didn't mention it until someone found it on their own. There's no mention of it in the changelog (even though it's without question the most significant change to the AutoGK package in quite a while), there was no indication of its installation, and the RESPONSETARGET license is buried at the end of AutoGK's own license. So, yeah, I don't think he wanted anyone to know. Do you think, perhaps, because he knew an AutoGK with bundled adware was not going to go over well?

Originally posted by Taurus
Everyonce in a while MS is changing code silently, nobody claims them for to be evil, everybody is shouting hail to the leaders, because they are giving something for free.
So if len0x decides to handle it the same way, he is just doing what everyone on the net is doing now. --to get something back for their hard work.

Everyone thinks MS is evil! :) But that is neither here nor there.

I understand len0x's intentions with the adware -- he's a capitalist like everyone else, and he deserves some kind of monitary reward for the hard work he's put into AutoGK. But by installing adware into his software that we are forced to install, he's essentially selling out his user base to an advertising company so he can profit. It's a valid way to make money, I suppose, but it's probably at the expense of the goodwill of his users.

Originally posted by Taurus
All this shouting about free community and free software, what a bluff.
Look at Nero. Everyonce in a while part of the program is phoning home, even if you disabled all known switches and nobody is in trouble yet here at doom9.
To make it clear: I don't like adverts and adware either.
If I can't kick it off, surely I will switch to something else.
But in this case (AutoGK) there are no hidden traps.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that people in this community and on this forum prefer free software. They'll use commercial software if there is no alternative, but there's a clear preference for software that is free and open. Until 1.84, AutoGK was at least free, if not open -- now it is neither. But that point is somewhat irrelevant at the moment.

The bigger point is that it doesn't matter that it's easy to uninstall. I realize that it would be simple for me to uninstall len0x's adware, but by the same token, it would be simple for me to pirate Divx Pro, or TMPGEnc, or even, yes, Nero. The ease with which I evade its commercialism doesn't negate the fact that it's commercial to begin with.

(Btw, to len0x: when the next stable version is released, you should still offer version 1.60 Stable and label it as the "non-adware" version. People need to have a choice of whether they want the new features + adware, or old-features + adware-free).

Originally posted by Taurus
You can use the advert to show your appreciation for len0x work or just disable it
and still have full functions.

No no. I'm forced to show my "appreciation" to len0x, at least initially. If the adware was really just intended for those who wanted to show their appreciation for len0x's work, it would be implemented like this: (a) in the installation of AutoGK, there would be a clear checkbox for the RESPONSETARGET software, and (b) it would, by default, but UNCHECKED. That way people who wanted to support len0x with the adware could do so.

Originally posted by Taurus
So make up you're mind and please differentiate between advertising
and spyware, browser hijacking, trojan behavior, etc.

So we're clear, here are my complaints. First, I'm disappointed that AutoGK is now commercial. I realize that this is len0x's right, it's his software, etc etc etc. But I always get angry after something that is ostensibly free develops a solid userbase and then becomes commercial -- I was just as upset when MP3 files (and Compuserve GIF files, in a different instance) were suddenly going to be subject to licensing fees after years of being free. Second -- adware?? With all the stigma attached to it, with all the obvious disdain shown for this kind of thing on these very forums (Doom9 has a freakin' guide on how to evade Divx Pro's adware), it had to be adware? I thought the milestone solution was going so well (and don't get me started on the fact that the people who donated did not realize that it was only a matter of time before the software they were "supporting" was going to become commercial anyway).

I don't care that it phones home. I care that it's now commercial, and that it forces me to install adware. These changes are clearly within len0x's right as a software programmer, but I'm a user, and it's my job to give feedback. :) I don't like it.

Originally posted by fuct
This isn't something that is going to be added to the original GK, correct?

I'm pretty sure since GK is GPL'ed, it can't be included. Or, at least, if it was included, someone would just take the source and recompile it without the adware. :)

[buk]

Great comments Carraway, i absolutelly agree with you. To Taurus´s post i have some thought. Maybe it´s repeating some of your thoughts.

Taurus think, that silent instalation of advertising or other f.....g internal information collecting robot, no matter if you call it adware, spyware, malware or other-ware, into users machine without users permission and even without users noticing, is OK. He must really be crazy. LenOx should at first clearly say to users, that in AutoGK is any robot (may be because donoring is not enough and he needs money for further developing). Also he should clearly say what the robot is like. But, he really didn´t do it. Instead of that he voted silent instalation of the suspected code to every users machine. It´s nothing else but silent infection as hackers smuggle trojan horses into systems of other people.

And is really not important, if it is just one little file, which is uninstalable, and if there are many other suspected programs. Important is only the fact, that lenOx instals DAE silently without any previous information. Do you realy love listening bugs or big-brothers in your machine? It is nothing else than very very bad practice.

In my opinion LenOx (or somebody else who put DAE into AutoGK) just abused faith of the users into previous cleanness of AutoGK.

Also you and other people should remember, that AutoGK is perfect thanks to users too, because users are beta testers and write lenOx experiences and bugs reports in this forum. Users also give lenOx ideas for further development. And what they got for their long time help? Hidden and dangerous information robot. It´s really funny for me, when you write, this is OK. Do you realy love somebody, who uses your help and silently listen your phone calls? Someone, to whom you help and who silently gives bugs into your machine? Someone who abuses your good faith and silently give your machine into hands of advertisers? It is bad practise and I don´t like this dark methods.

It is really not fair policy. Now, everybody knows, what he may await from AutoGK. Perfect program with potentially dangerous spyware.

Last news from LenOx is about noticing DAE instalation before the instalation. It´s better choice than silent instalation. That ´s the fair policy with main motto:„Do you want my program? OK, but here are my rules.“ That´s clear. OK. I can vote.

Have a nice time.

Buk

[Axed]

What i think this boils down to is a mans time. Either yours, or Len0x's. If you want to save your own time, and use an automated program like AutoGK, but you have to pay for the time that Len0x has put into the program in one way or another.

If you want to use your own time, learn to use Gordian Knot and thank the community at large who have developed that. Unlike AutoGK, Gordian Knot has had many people develop it, most recently that lovely man 'tHe gLouCh' who has helped to iron out alot of the bugs with Len0x.

My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it and i will continue to recommend it to friends. But, i also always try to talk friends into doing it the old GK way because in my opinion, you can get better results. It will take your own time tho, and most people are not willing to give that up.

[Carraway]

Originally posted by Axed
What i think this boils down to is a mans time. Either yours, or Len0x's. If you want to save your own time, and use an automated program like AutoGK, but you have to pay for the time that Len0x has put into the program in one way or another.

This is a fair point. I certainly understand the rationale behind including the adware, and truthfully, once len0x removes the "surreptitious" aspect of it I'll have no real ethical argument against it. However, by arguing against it, my hope is that perhaps len0x will reconsider the commercial aspect of it entirely, or find a better way to make money off of the program.

(I actually have a personal stake in all of this: I constantly champion this program among my friends who rip DVD's and now that it has adware bundled with it, it makes it feel like I'm pushing some kind of virus or trojan on them -- like I'm a culprit in screwing with their computers, you know?).

Originally posted by Axed
My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it...

"My personal stance on the inclusion..." of the adware? You're happy? I don't understand what you mean.

Originally posted by Axed
But, i also always try to talk friends into doing it the old GK way because in my opinion, you can get better results. It will take your own time tho, and most people are not willing to give that up.

The problem here is that a lot of people don't want to take the time to learn GK. With AutoGK it's just point and click, but most people don't know/care what a D2V file is, or how to write an AVS script etc etc. Personally I'm definitely considering switching back to GK (I switched to AutoGK because, like you said, it saved me time). But since I have nothing but time (http://forum.doom9.org/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=25992), the whole adware development may be the impetus for me to simply switch back to regular GK. :)

[chilled]

I just dont get why you/he implemented this adware if there was the milestone/paypal thing that was working well (imho).
While reading the posts I have been thinking about the fact: a software for newbies installing adware on their quite unsecured computers (instead of doing it on a program -GK, yes I know its GPLed-which is for advanced users who know how to be protected) and I just dont find it fair. Not for the fact of including adware (a bit too, indeed) but on the fact of the intended users. And I just remembered an intelligent thought of Bill Gate$, about his own computer being more secured on the internet when other peoples computers were more protected... so when someone who knows nothing about computers gets his own full of viruses, etc it does increase risks for all the others.
Well, Im not very worried about this indeed, but I really have not appreciated the way it has been introduced (obviously everyone will prefer a stable version which tells you "hey, approve this separate license", than this beta one.
I also agree with the one who asks for the 1.60 stable to be "eternally" available, especially for the "this one has the important features so far" thing. I think at the moment DTS and other beta improvements so far (even future AVI input or MKV/OGM output) are not interesting enough by themselves (I totally agree Len0x argument that autogk has reached his objective) to justify the possible non-availability of 1.60.

[Axed]

Good point Carraway. I can see how you would feel a bit reponsible especially if your friends talked about Dr.DivX and you said theres a better freeware (with no junk!) program, because i said that to my friends. But, as long as the spyware/adware/whatever isnt annoying and is just, say, a small ad banner that you see while your encoding in AutoGK i dont think its that bad.

With regards to my statement about "My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it..." what i ment was i think it is a good inclusion to help with the development if it inspires len0x to develop the program more and not stop. Sorry for not being very clear on that point.

To be truthful, im really not sure how to feel on this anymore after thinking about it. I'll still endorce the program to my friends as long as it doesnt become complete crapware that has hundreds of banners that just mysteriosly popup. Like i said, id prefer to see a banner that people can see while encoding if there has to be banners in AutoGK.

edit: added a line to first paragraph

[Taurus]

Originally posted by buk
Taurus think, that silent instalation of advertising....is ok


You got me totally wrong.
For a long time now I'm into internet security. I can't remember how many machines I have desinfected and stealthed again crapware.
But this have to be weightend differently.
I personally think that len0x has made a shot in the dark to see how the community is reacting.
As this is just beta software, not intended for everyday users, he's got the right to experiment whith some changes, even they are controvers to likings or dislikings of the beta users.
That's why it is called beta :D .

To make it clear:
If there is adware in next stable versions of AutoGk, it must be clearly pointed out at install progress and at top of the disclaimer.
If not, most people nowadays might find it suspicious.
Even some notes of what it does (and what not)will be welcomed.

But, I agree, if a (better)working donation system could be implanted, this would be the right choice and we could stop this awfull discussion.:mad:

A Merry Christmas to all of you

Cheers

Taurus

[Carraway]

Hey guys, just a bit more info on the DAE adware that AutoGK installs. I've been using a program called Privoxy for a couple of days just to test it out, and one of its features is that it essentially logs all 'net traffic on my computer, so I thought I'd use it to see just what the DAE softare tracks or receives. As far as I can tell, RESPONSETARGET gets to see virtually everywhere you go online.

Example: I type in www.doom9.org in IE, Privoxy logs this activity:

Dec 24 11:52:20 Privoxy(01304) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/sho
wit.php?u=97883&p=1243&url=http://www.doom9.org/
Dec 24 11:52:28 Privoxy(06644) Request: www.doom9.org/
Dec 24 11:52:29 Privoxy(07696) Request: www.doom9.org/framekill.js
Dec 24 11:52:30 Privoxy(06080) Request: www.doom9.org/frameset.js
Dec 24 11:52:31 Privoxy(04112) Request: www.doom9.org/top.html
[...etc...]


Apparently I'm U=97883 or something. Anyway, I go to Google:

Dec 24 11:54:39 Privoxy(02884) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/sh
owit.php?u=97883&p=1243&url=http://google.com/
Dec 24 11:54:40 Privoxy(02404) Request: www.google.com/

I click on Google Groups!

Dec 24 11:56:31 Privoxy(02796) Request: groups-beta.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=
Dec 24 11:56:31 Privoxy(05660) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/showit.php?u=97883&p=1
243&url=http://groups-beta.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=
Dec 24 11:56:34 Privoxy(05296) Request: groups-beta.google.com/img/watched_y.gif
[...it goes on...]

And so on. So after hours of web browsing, I can only assume that RESPONSETARGET has a whole history of U=97883's web browsing. I don't know what they do with this information -- whether they are honorable and genuinely only use it for targeted ads and then promptly purge it, or if they harvest the info and sell it, etc etc. But they're an adware company so they're not at the peak of business ethics to begin with, so I suspect it's something closer to the latter.

Edited for better formatting

[Wolfman]

Wouldnt the best adware be from one of the Dvd rental companies :devil:

Donations have problems too.

How about time limited Adware ? maybe 1 month or some such. Then self purge.

[buk]

To Taurus

If you wrote about beta versions and experimenting with new features, why the new feature of silent DAE instalation is not mentioned in the list of new features, which is every time presented on www.autogk.net with the notice obout a new version. Other new features are mentioned there. What a mystery? Why the betas are downloadable by all people and not only by eg. registered beta testers? Another mystery? I think it ´s too mysteries in one case.



To Carraway´s post i would like to add, that nobody really don´t need that anybody else knows about pages he visited on the web. Collecting these information about behaviour on the web is really no ADWARE feature as somebody thinks, but it is pure SPYWARE feature. It just spies and sends data to nontrustworthy third-party. It´s just a game with words, when somebody says that DAE is adware, but DAE is real and for every infected user very dangerous spyware. Each must be aware of it, because the information cellected by DAE could be very easy misused against users.

I personally think, that people who try to collect users personallities, even if they have a very good offer (AutoGK), are a bad guys and the offer must be refused. And what more, it is really funy that this bad guys try to convince other people that they are good guys, that they are giving other people something without can´t live any user. Fortunatelly, earlier or later will come a new really good guy, who will not infecting users computers.

AutoGK is not the only one, although it is very, very good. It´s just about user´s choice to use program with spyware, or to use less comfortable program or set of programs without spyware. It is just about little learning new methods.

That´s my opinion.

Nice Holiday

Buk

[richarddd]

If lenOx wants to include DAE in AutoGK, he should clearly disclose it.

[tdwest]

If lenox needs to add a little piece of spy ware so be it.
This is the software that got me into video encoding which is a good thing and bad thing:D This is my way of saying thanks alot for a great FREE program!!!

[len0x]

There is nothing in this thread that I wasn't prepare to hear. If you think that I consider this as greatest idea ever - you're mistaken. I had to make a piece with myself first... But having said that my main motive for doing this was that considerable number of ppl would feel like Axed said, i.e. "it is a good inclusion to help with the development if it inspires len0x to develop the program more and not stop". I have probably more than 100,000 users and even if I can continue to make happy just 10% of those - its still worth it.

Regarding milestones - its not quite working as expected (although it may look like it). Since M2 was announced only 35-40% of donations were actually for M2 - the rest was just normal donations and if it wasn't for holiday period M2 target would not be reached for another 2-3 months (and that is for the most wanted feature in AutoGK). Basically it will slow the development a lot, so we're back to the idea - if considerable number of ppl are still willing to see rapid development of AutoGK, then why not? (I have nothing to loose really - in the worst case I'll just stop developing it if I see that adware will make ppl abandon AutoGK completely. But I don't believe in that yet). If I make a poll on my website asking why are you using AutoGK with choices like "its free", "its the best", "it doesn't contain adware/spyware", the latter choice would not be the most popular one I bet. It all comes down to the value of AutoGK for each individual user.

P.S. About web serfing statistics - everyone's doing it. Google is logging all the keywords you search for along with your IP address. Why? Because every ad provider has to price keywords (the more popular the keyword, the higher the price), so they keep those stats along with geographical distribution. No one is really interested to see individual web surfing history (it would take huge amount space and not worth keeping, so its aggregated). DAE is doing the same by extracting keywords from URLs.

[CeeJay.dk]

I think its fine that Lenox is trying to make more money off AutoGK.
But when installing spy/adware you should have the option of choosing in the installer whether or not to install it.
This way you clearly notice that it is being installed, and you can always choose not to install it.

Another acceptable way of earning a bit of revenue would be to include ads in the installer itself , and perhaps some small unobtrusive ones in the program.

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by len0x
P.S. About web serfing statistics - everyone's doing it. Google is logging all the keywords you search for along with your IP address. Why? Because every ad provider has to price keywords (the more popular the keyword, the higher the price), so they keep those stats along with geographical distribution. No one is really interested to see individual web surfing history (it would take huge amount space and not worth keeping, so its aggregated). DAE is doing the same by extracting keywords from URLs.

This is so true. I wonder why so many people think that someone is keeping a whole room of files on their surfing habits. This is online advertising, you have to know at least something about the audience - otherwise you can go and burn the money and achieve the same effect.

You have to stop being commies.

[niamh]

You go len0x :)

to the people who think the IRA or something manufactured that dll to blow the world and the neighbouring planets, and that by the time you have removed it (2 and a half minute, if you´re really dumb), you will still die of a horrible death anyway : learn to rip.

PS: Beware of killing the goose with the golden eggs, if I were you I´d swallow the medicine :)


(2nd PS : if everybody was using firefox as minimum common sense would have it, this discussion would be void in the first place)

[ydobon]

Hi, all.

First and as always, Len0x wrote AutoGK so he can do whatever he wants with it. If I don't like spyware, I'm free to not use it.

Problem is: AutoGK wasn't spyware. When I installed v1.84b, and after dozens of versions installed, I didn't read the 5400-word license anymore because I (wrongly) assumed that any significant change would be clearly stated. For example in the changelog.

But no. And the top of AutoGK license still says: "Freeware License Agreement". So congratulations, you got me. And you probably got also 99.9% of your non-technical target audience.

Ok. No biggie. I don't use IE and I uninstalled DAE. And if one day it can't be uninstalled and I don't want it in my computer, I'll look for an alternative. But from now on, AutoGK is on the list of programs that do things without telling me. And Len0x is on the list of programmers that (try to) hide what his program does to his users' computers.

So yes, niamh, I'll swallow the medicine, but don't expect me to be happy about it. And I hope the people who donated don't feel cheated (I think I would). BTW, is the milestone idea gonna be continued after M2?

Oh, and niamh, if "everybody was using firefox as minimum common sense would have it," I'm sure the people at RESPONSETARGET would made their nice piece of software firefox-friendly.

[Corence]

I agree with lenOx's pursuit of finding income for his time spent developing this wonderful program. The inclusion of this adware program is a simple solution.

However, I agree that it should be stated in the changelog or on the website that there is a new adware feature. It wouldn't change my mind about the quality of this product. I would certainly prefer dealing with an easily removed adware component compared to paying for it with cash up front, such as inferior products like Dr. DivX!

Perhaps it would be best to include it only on the website, so that those who take the time to visit the autogk site can see it, but those who are just ripping off software from torrent sites (and I have seen autogk on a few) are left with this little adware surprise. :D For those of us who follow the development in the forums and download the software from lenOx, I feel that we should be notified somehow prior to installation that this is taking place.

Keep up the good work, lenOx! Just let us know when you're making such changes, please.

[Sharktooth]

Uhm, i'm sorry but as long as i unistall DAE and AutoGK still works (i used it 3 times in total and only for testing) then i will do it.
Since i don't consider myself a fulltime AutoGK user (i prefer manual encoding and dont even use regular GK...) i will continue to uninstall DAE.
When i will need AutoGK seriously, i'll prefer making one or more donations but i dont want software i didnt ask for on my computer.

OT:
Originally posted by niamh
E pericoloso sporghersi.
It's "E' pericoloso sporgersi." ...

[niamh]

So yes, niamh, I'll swallow the medicine, but don't expect be to be happy about it.
I never implied you should be.

len0x has previously stated his reasons for not advertising the dll in this particular beta build. I think most of you have managed by now to establish(at length) he is a dirty malicious sneaky scoundrel ;)
Now, my point is, can we get on with it ? :)

[OT]@ Sharktooth: thanks a bunch for the correction, it has indeed been a while since I´ve been in a french train (some private jokes are bad enough, but with errors get to be worse indeed ;))

[BigDid]

Originally posted by niamh

[OT]@ Sharktooth: thanks a bunch for the correction, it has indeed been a while since I´ve been in a french train (some private jokes are bad enough, but with errors get to be worse indeed ;))

Happy new year to all multilingual train users ;)

Hummm, in french I believe it is something like "Ne pas se pencher à la fenêtre..." unless only french trains have these multilingual inscriptions? :D
To french readers, sorry it's also beeen a while since I've been in a train (french or other). :)

Did

[Sharktooth]

Ok, sorry for the offtopic again...
The niamh signature is in Italian and can be found on any cross country train (for example Eurostars).

Back in topic...
I know what len0x said but i dont like to have software i didnt asked to install. If i want a mpeg4 conversion tool i dont want a spyware+mpeg4 conversion tool, expecially if that spyware is an "always running" application, and it's there even when i dont use the conversion tool.
Most of you will say "then dont use it or pay $$$". My answare is: i prefer paying some $$$ and get that software without spyware.

[stephanV]

With me, the problem is not the adware/spyware, but the fact that len0x didnt seem to mention it anywhere.

[fewtch]

Really glad I found this thread, I had DAE installed on my Win2k partition. To think every URL I typed in my browser was being sent to some company for review, without my knowledge or permission... that's scary.

Whether it's really risky or not, it feels like a personal violation. One's private behaviors to be exposed without knowledge or permission, perhaps logged/archived forever somewhere. I'm really offended by this. :mad:

[ydobon]

And so it begins...
http://www.sowbug.org/

Thanks God I don't use URLs like server.com/?usr=username&pwd=password (specially not in IE). If you do, the guys at www.responsetarget.com have a backup copy of your login information, in case you lose it :devil:


Regards,

[fileman]

I was just updating AutoGK to 1.84beta when I got that alert from my virus scanner:

http://www.directupload.net/images/050104/fygq6G6p.png
("C:\...\TEMP\TEMP.EXE is the trojan horse TR/Dldr.Agent.fy")


Is this related to the topic of this thread in any way, or is it the next step, or just false alarm?

[len0x]

Originally posted by fileman
("C:\...\TEMP\TEMP.EXE is the trojan horse TR/Dldr.Agent.fy")


It is a DAE installer, not a trojan...

[fileman]

Ok, thanks for the clarification len0x. Then it's a faulty classification in my virus scanner's database.

Well, this made it easy to not install the Adware at all, I chose "delete this file" and it was gone and couldn't be executed by AutoGK setup.

[len0x]

Originally posted by ydobon
And so it begins...
http://www.sowbug.org/


Yeah, the sad thing (as I expected) is that even before I actually go ahead with this system its already advertized as a fact. Now you understand why I sort of hide it in the first place.

[fileman]

Come on len0x, you should have known that everybody would rip AutoGK into pieces...
It's like that with every program that suddenly comes with adware, and if it's done by a trusted good programmer like you, it's even more a shock to everyone and the "wave of disgust" is even larger than with some company whom nobody trusted before.

[ydobon]

Hi, Len0x.

Originally posted by len0x
Yeah, the sad thing (as I expected) is that even before I actually go ahead with this system its already advertized as a fact. Now you understand why I sort of hide it in the first place.
Err... not to be picky about words, but you actually *went* ahead with it and *it's* a fact. Or did I dream about uninstalling DAE? :rolleyes:

and... "sort of"?!? well, it's true you didn't rename the .dll but... ;)


Regards,

[len0x]

The system is not live and I didn't get a cent from it, so theoretically if I don't get an agreement with responsetarget then DAE will be removed from AutoGK's installer.

[metropolis2004]

Although everything has been said before, I'd like express my opinion because I haven't read a single word of excuse from you.

LenOx: I appreciate your work. I use AutoGK since I always got oversized files when using GK and AutoGK made everything right.

But by bundling Spyware with your software WITHOUT stating that clearly destroys all your integrity. I think I will go back to GK and try to find the mistake I make. I am really disappointed.

You want to make money? OK? Do it, but be man enough to admit it in the installer instead of cheating all the people that trusted you.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by len0x
It is a DAE installer, not a trojan...
If you let the antivirus program do it's job, AutoGK 1.85 beta continues installing without interuption (and of course without DAE).
I will try to make an installation with Virus scanner turned off, just to see what's happening :D ;)
Strange, the scanner did'nt recognized DAE in former 1.84 install.
So either the virus definition got updated or the DAE installer got twisted.

Cheers

Taurus

[shevegen]

There is an easy solution for you users - use Windows on machines not connected to the Internet, and everything is fine. And use another OS while being connected to the WWW.
;)


Personally though, I think throwing in adware is a very very bad option to attempt solving a problem.

[fewtch]

It's clearly announced now, so personally I have no objections anymore. If it reaches a point where AutoGK won't function without the spyware, then maybe it's time to say something again (like e.g. you get Paypal donation from me when hell freezes over :devil: ).

[DeadMetal]

Originally posted by Taurus

Strange, the scanner did'nt recognized DAE in former 1.84 install.
So either the virus definition got updated or the DAE installer got twisted.

Yeah, here also. Using Avast! Antivirus.

[Guest]

I understand that AutoGK uses GPL'ed software from other developers. If len0x is now making money off AutoGK, this may change the equation for those developers whose work is included.

len0x needs to write to all these people, explain the situation, and offer them the opportunity to withdraw their permission for use of their work.

If there is any of my work included, I would prefer that it not be included in a package that distributes adware/spyware, and from which the author derives income, thereby violating the spirit of the GPL licensing.

[Guest]

I've thought a bit more and investigated about this.

It is *not* a GPL issue unless it places undue obstacles to getting the source code of the bundled GPL components. Assuming that is not the case, the only justifable reaction is a polite disapproval of the concept of adware/spyware. So that's it as far as I am concerned.

I politely disapprove. :p

[Carraway]

A couple things:

First of all, I hadn't planned on mentioning this, but now that DG has (rightfully) brought up the GPL issue and packaging free programs with a commercial work, it's probably relavent. I was going through the BeSweet readme and noticed this:

Distribution
The program is a freeware and not commercial in any mean.

Technically the software is still free but it's definitely commercial now (in the same sense that, for example, American television is referred to as "commercial television" despite the fact that it's costs nothing to watch it and is funded by advertising dollars). So, yeah, my question is this: is that gonna cause problems?

Second! I said this a few days ago:

Originally posted by Carraway (that's me!)
So after hours of web browsing, I can only assume that RESPONSETARGET has a whole history of U=97883's web browsing. I don't know what they do with this information -- whether they are honorable and genuinely only use it for targeted ads and then promptly purge it, or if they harvest the info and sell it, etc etc. But they're an adware company so they're not at the peak of business ethics to begin with, so I suspect it's something closer to the latter.

This should probably be of interest to everyone. The answer to my question -- whether they only use my web history to provide ads or if they harvest it and sell it to other companies -- the answer is sadly the latter.

From their privacy policy:

ResponseTarget may collect any or all of the following types of information: (a) traffic or clickstream data, (b) cookies, (c) Internet Protocol ("IP") addresses, or (d) contact information and other personally identifying information...

[...]

(a) Traffic or Clickstream Data.

ResponseTarget may share information it collects with certain selected third parties, but only in aggregated, anonymous form. For example, we may tell an advertiser that a certain number of people visited a certain area of a Web site, or searched Web sites for the term "mortgage loan."

[...]

(b) Cookies.

Cookies let us know about repeat visitors and if we are delivering quality products and services. ResponseTarget may also use cookies to identify which sites our repeat visitors are coming from, so that we can place more of our online advertising on these sites, and can, where necessary, pay our affiliates and other business partners.

[and so on]

They are giving the info to third parties and using cookies to follow the sites that we go to. And they also collect IP addresses, so I can only assume that if they wanted to, they could easily supply the entire web history of any particular IP address. So, yes, they're deliberately doing more than simply "advertising". I give them credit for being upfront about it (moreso than len0x was/is), but they nonetheless seem like a pretty typical adware/spyware company. I encourage everyone to read their privacy policy (http://www.responsetarget.com/privacy/) because it's very informative.

Oh, one last thing -- DAE started being bundled in version 1.82b, not 1.84b as was previously thought. I don't know if anyone cares, but I figured I'd mention it anyway. So to anyone who has either 1.82 (as I did) or 1.83, you unknowingly have DAE and will have to uninstall it.

(Also NOTE: If you do happen to have 1.82b, uninstalling DAE will not suffice because doing so -- I kid you not -- cripples AutoGK. You will need to upgrade and then uninstall DAE).

[thop]

I think it's not a very good move towards all users that did donate. I already had a slight idea where this might be going when i first saw the PAYPAL button in the main window a few months ago.

I'd rather have AGKnot going commercial, than install spyware. Not sure if that's possible with the GPL and so.

[buk]

As i noticed, BeeSweet is not longer in AutoGK pack (from 1.87 beta). Caused throught problems with BeeSweet licence?

[len0x]

No, see here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64266&perpage=20&pagenumber=168

[buk]

OK LenOx, everything is clear. Sorry for my previous post.

[ydobon]

Hi there.

Originally posted by Carraway
[...] Oh, one last thing -- DAE started being bundled in version 1.82b, not 1.84b as was previously thought. [...]

Actually it's also in AutoGK 1.81 beta, or at least the RESPONSETARGET license appears there too :rolleyes:


Regards,

[Carraway]

Originally posted by ydobon
Hi there.

Actually it's also in AutoGK 1.81 beta, or at least the RESPONSETARGET license appears there too :rolleyes:

Regards,

Yeah, I actually noticed this today, as a matter of fact, while I was going through old versions. I'm thinking of sending Doom9 a quick note to let him know that the adware info in his guide is incorrect (it still says 1.84).

Unrelated, to len0x:

It's been five days since DG posted in this very thread and your silence has been conspicuous. His code powers a very large part of your app. Do you care at all that Donald disapproves or are you to the point where $$MONEY$$ > respect?

[Guest]

len0x and I have been in private communication about this. As I have said in an earlier post, I politely disapprove of adware/spyware, and that is all. I have not asked him to remove any components of mine, nor do I think that would be appropriate. len0x doesn't owe any explanations to me.

[len0x]

I was writing a reply, but DG was first :)
Anyway - any issues I may have with developers I prefer to discuss privately without involving "the voice of public" aka Carraway...

[TripleA]

Should anyone care what I think about this? Probably not, as I don't even use AutoGK. I didn't even download it once. Even GK I use only for cropping and resize error calculations, so I don't really need any new features in this software and thus anything that would force me to abandon use of future updates of it is not critical to me.

I hope that's understandable.

Now, I think this move is a Very Bad Idea(tm). "You cannot do anything about it and it's not really hurting you so just lay back and enjoy it" is *not* a strong argument, in my book. The very absolute minimum is to clearly warn the user adware is being installed, IMHO: "Are you *really* sure you want to do this?" in 72pt flashing blood-red letters style, I mean.

A much better and infinitely more decent way to make money is to turn AutoGK into shareware. At least in my book.

[Trystian]

I noticed that when you uninstall DAE from the "Add or Remove Programs menu", all it does is unregisters dae.dll from the system. It doesn't appear to remove the dll or any of the changes from the registry.

SO, I wrote a small program that removes everything that dae places on your system. If you want it, it's located HERE (http://trystiansky.i8.com/). Called the DAE Removal Tool. :D
If you want to know exactly what it does, read DAERemove.txt in the ZIP.

Thanks,
-Trystian

[len0x]

if you read first page of this thread then you'll know that dae.dll is removed upon restart.

[Trystian]

Ah, I missed that part. Thank you for the clarification. But it still leaves at least one registry setting behind (HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\DAE\*). If an uninstall feature of a program can't uninstall EVERYTHING, then it isn't properly doing it's job. Of course this is just my opinion, I'm sure others would disagree.
This tool just assists with what Response Target apparently missed when uninstalling their software.

[cypher_soundz]

Wow this has really blown my mind! I don’t like brining negativity to the forum, but to be fair it was already here (in 1.81 beta apparently)! I don’t use autoGK but I do really think this is a bad move! Remember bad news travels lot faster then good news! Will people really be talking about autoGK lite? It just doesn’t sound right :), I think there would have been better ways to go about this.
With pc’s slowing down to a stop for no other reason than malware infecting the system, the program may be able to be removed simply but it has shown that you are a supporter to these malicious and untrustworthy companies. I feel you have been tarred with the spyware brush now.
I was not trying to rant, only voice my opinion. You are free to do as you like, and the users should be grateful they had a clean useful program to use up to now, But I do feel that it will not be as successful as it could be now with this latest developments.
Regards
cyph

[Mouse]

Bah, stop all the whining. Contribute with money to len0x so he can skip the DAE.

He updates this software more times than some of you change undies ;) and the software itself is GREAT!

[Carraway]

Originally posted by Mouse
Bah, stop all the whining. Contribute with money to len0x so he can skip the DAE.

I'm all for a donation milestone for adware removal, but I'm fairly certain the adware is here to stay. Len0x has commented before on its permanence, but I'm not sure if he's ever stated it publicly.

But my impression is that unless a sweeter deal comes along (and I don't mean donations), the adware will forever be part of AutoGK.

[dibl]

Though I agree that software author could choose whatever business plan for his or her work, I wonder whether a clean shareware version would be a better business plan? I, for one, would like to pay for shareware like ultraedit, winrar ... Anyway, I guess it is a good practice to at least let users know about the "adware" issue before installation, like ad supported Opera browser.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by Carraway
But my impression is that unless a sweeter deal comes along (and I don't mean donations), the adware will forever be part of AutoGK.
So let's hope ResponseTarget goes out of business, then Len0x can take it out... :D

[TripleA]

Possible scenario:

0- ResponseTarget goes out of business.
1- ResponseTarget sells all information they have to the highest bidder. I.E. some pr0n outfit, most likely.
2- Spyware from another company is used in the next AutoGK.
3- Suddenly you're getting spammed from all over the place!

In short: find other software to use.

[Carraway]

Originally posted by TripleA
Possible scenario:

[...]

In short: find other software to use.

Or AutoGK Lite.

Not that it exists, but it seems like all popular programs that are spyware-laden eventually go in that direction, like it or not.

[cypher_soundz]

Will people really be talking about autoGK lite?
LOL yes they will be :D ;)
Regards
cyph

[Trystian]

I doubt that there will be an AutoGK Lite. I actually looked at AutoGK for the first time yesterday for it's functionality (and not the DAE spyware part), and it seems to be a great piece of software. A lot easier to use than Gordian Knot (Hence the "Auto" part of it's name). I did look around, and found no other "free" software out there that came close to the ease of use and quality of AutoGK. I'm not saying I agree that adding spyware/adware to the AutoGK installation was a good idea, but if Len0x spends most of his time developing this software, he has to make a living somehow. Preferably with paypal donations. I just wrote my DAE Removal tool (http://trystiansky.i8.com/) just to give the user the option of completely cleaning DAE from their system (Since I despise Spyware).

My suggestion, if you use AutoGK (http://www.autogk.me.uk/index.php), and use my DAE Removal tool (http://trystiansky.i8.com/), then DONATE to Len0x (https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=len0x@autogk.me.uk&item_name=AutoGK+donation&no_note=1&tax=0&no_shipping=1) for his time for building such a great tool.

-Trystian

[buzzqw]

Very, very, very good :)

Your tool seems to fuction !

Thanks Trystian !

BHH

[ydobon]

Originally posted by buzzqw
Your tool seems to fuction !
Hey, I'm the first that doesn't agree with Len0x decision, but don't make it look so difficult.

Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > DAE > Uninstall also works :p

[buzzqw]

Sure !

But your tools is quicker ! :D

BHH

[Trystian]

Originally posted by ydobon
Hey, I'm the first that doesn't agree with Len0x decision, but don't make it look so difficult.

Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > DAE > Uninstall also works :p

True, but it doesn't remove everything that it added.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by TripleA
Possible scenario:

0- ResponseTarget goes out of business.
1- ResponseTarget sells all information they have to the highest bidder. I.E. some pr0n outfit, most likely.
2- Spyware from another company is used in the next AutoGK.
3- Suddenly you're getting spammed from all over the place!

In short: find other software to use.
Actually, my DVD burner + DVDShrink is looking the most attractive. Hate to waste the ability of my Philips 642 to play .avi files, but of course picture quality is much better at full DVD size. Then again, for less important DVD's I like storing 5-6 movies onto a single DVD+R, even if it takes a long time transcoding to MPEG4.

Hmm, what to do :rolleyes: :p

Edit -- I'm just joking... as long as DAE can be removed without preventing AutoGK from working, I'll keep using it. But if someone could write an app that simply performs the resize calculations and writes the AVISynth script, I could do the rest manually... honestly, AutoGK is basically a fancy resize/bitrate calculator (at least the DVD input function).

[Carraway]

Originally posted by fewtch
But if someone could write an app that simply performs the resize calculations and writes the AVISynth script, I could do the rest manually... honestly, AutoGK is basically a fancy resize/bitrate calculator (at least the DVD input function).

This brings up an interesting point. I am not a programmer, so I personally have no idea about anything, but really: exactly how advanced is the process that AutoGK uses?

I mean, it automates the D2V process using CLI, encodes the audio using CLI, encodes in VirtualDub via a settings file (I think). None of that seems too difficult. The interlacing analysis is predominately done through Decomb, and then AutoGK just uses those results to decide how/if to Telecine it, which in theory doesn't seem too terribly hard. Compressibility tests are well documented, so that can't be hard. AutoGK simply edits the registry file to implement the proper settings for Xvid or Divx.

What is the hardest part about writing an app like AutoGK? The batch system? The GUI itself? It seems (to my simple mind) a cakewalk compared to writing things like Decomb to analyze the video, or DGIndex that decodes and demuxes video (and they're free, too -- amazing! astonishing! where do they possibly find the motivation? etc).

Seriously, could someone who is even vaugely familiar with programming set me straight here? ydobon? Anybody?

[fewtch]

As far as I see it, the trick is in (A) refining calculations to get everything right, and (B) accounting for all possible variables (types of video the program could run into and such). Other than that (as someone vaguely familiar with programming :D) the rest isn't earth shattering stuff. It's got a nice, clean interface and is a good proggie for newcomers. No reason why Len0x shouldn't charge for it, but as you point out there's free stuff out there that makes AutoGK look pretty basic.

I wish DGIndex/DGDecode would get the ability to properly size video, like PC-based DVD player software does. Or someone would write a calculator that accepts .d2v files and outputs a small .avs script that resizes based on a fixed horizontal width (or something like that).

[niamh]

Other than that (as someone vaguely familiar with programming ) the rest isn't earth shattering stuff. It's got a nice, clean interface and is a good proggie for newcomers. No reason why Len0x shouldn't charge for it, but as you point out there's free stuff out there that makes AutoGK look pretty basic.

:eek:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, so I'll tell you mine, I find your posts inaccurate, uninformed and offensive to boot. That's gratitude for you, hey.
I'm waiting for your own earth shattering app, please keep us posted.

[fewtch]

Originally posted by niamh
:eek:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, so I'll tell you mine, I find your posts inaccurate, uninformed and offensive to boot.
If you have a personal beef with me, PM me from now on -- it's inappropriate and off-topic here.

[Taurus]

@ fewtch

Knock Knock:
It was you who is getting off topic. Just read your own posts a few lines above.
We are here to help each other, not to discriminate the work of a person or himself.
If you think you can do it on your own, do it. But for the rest, we are grateful for the work len0x is doing and he deserves all the respect and support he can get from the community.
If the Adware aspect worries you, you have to find conclusions on your own. And please don't say it's so easy to join all the tools together to make a perfect rip. If it's so, why there are thousands of people using AutoGk? Think of it before you write.
So, back to topic,please.

Cheers

Taurus

[fewtch]

I think there's a misunderstanding here. I like AutoGK, use it regularly, and told Len0x I'll donate if he makes another method (aside from Paypal) available (and fully intend to).

My post above was in reply to Carraway when he asked "Seriously, could someone who is even vaugely familiar with programming set me straight here? ydobon? Anybody?" I'm "vaguely familiar with programming" (6502 & 16-bit 80x86 assembler, a little C, a lot of Visual Basic and other BASICs) and was replying to his question with my personal opinion. The topic is AutoGK, the spyware included, and the worth of AutoGK considering that spyware is included with it.

Sorry if anyone was offended by my reply -- I have nothing whatever against Len0x and as stated above I use his program regularly.

[unskinnyboy]

It is sad to see people beating the same topic to death page after page even though the uninstall instructions for DAE is pretty clear and someone has even written a tool for it. What more do you want? Can't you just leave len0x and the tool alone atleast now? And yes, I am with niamh and Taurus. Let's see the ground-breaking all-in-one tool, if you can deliver.

P.S: I wonder how many of the dissidents actually even donated to len0x?:rolleyes:

[Sharktooth]

I think this has gone too far...
If you dont like AutoGK because of DAE then dont use AutoGK (or remove DAE with the uninstall or the tool...). No one forces you to download and use it. It's a free software and you should be happy it is still free, coz from what i heard, it's the best tool for automated encoding.
Stop whining and crying and get a life.

[Yo]

I just noticed this too. I have version 1.87b of Autogk installed. I noticed that there is a newer version, 1.91, downloaded it, and started the installation process.

I (like most people, I assume) don't usually read the license agreements on software installation, and just click "yes".) This time, however, I noticed mention of a software company I had never heard of, that one was agreeing to let that company access your computer through the Internet, etc. I clicked "No" and exited out of the installation, I didn't wish to allow spyware to be installed on my system.

I would find it unfortunate never to be able to upgrade Autogk again, but I do not wish to have spyware installed on my system.

I looked at the description of changes in version 1.91 on these boards, and on the autogk web site, and was surprised to see no mention of this change. This thread, started by a user, is the first mention I have seen of it, although it is possible I missed another thread. Why no official announcement of it?

Some freeware developers have spent years and many hours working on improving their software programs, with no financial compensation. Very generous souls, one can only be thankful for their generosity. One can also understand, however, after someone has worked hard on a program for years with no financial compensation, and they have seen their program develop and improve, that they finally wish to receive some compensation for thier work. Completely understood. In that case I would say, change the product to shareware, and charge money for it. That is straightforward and clear. But still calling it freeware, and sneaking spyware into the installation program, without publicly announcing the change, doesn't seem right to me. I don't mean to be critical,, LenOx, I know you have put a lot of time and energy into this project, which many people throughout the world have found useful, for no compensation, and I can understand how you might wish to earn money for it now. I just don't think this is the right way to do it. Be more straightforward--if you wish to earn money from the project, then charge for it. (I don't know if there might be a legal problem involved, in that your product bundles other freeware programs with it. If you are charging for a package that includes other freeware programs, I wonder if you would have to pay those other authors some of the money you earned from it. Or whether they would allow their products to be used in your bundle at all, if it is a commercial bundle.)

I don't like what's happened with a similar product in this regard, "Fair Use". One is forced to "donate" on their web site, in order to download the product. A "forced donation" is an oxymoron, no such thing. If one is required to pay, it is not a "donation". Once again I understand the developer's wish to make money from his project. He should then not call it "freeware" any more, change it to "shareware", and charge for it. (And not call the charge a "donation", but a registration fee.) That just doesn't seem honest to me. If you want to charge for software, then charge for it, but don't call it "freeware", and don't call the the fee you have to pay a "donation".

At least that's clear on their ("Fair Use") web site though, that you have to pay something to download the product. In this case with autogk, no mention of the spyware on the autogk web site. True, it's mentioned in the license agreement (which stopped me from installing it), but most people don't read those. It really seems rather deceptive to me, not the right way to deal with the question of revenue from your product.

[b0b0b0b]

Hey guys, I would have had no idea that I now had adware proxying my web browsing if I hadn't been debugging some web stuff, sniffing my own traffic. Without passing judgement on anything, I would vote for dae to be much more visible to the end user, on the order of "this is the version of the installer with dae" and "this is the version of the installer without dae".

[Sharktooth]

STOP IT! READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST!!!
Someone plz close this thread...

[Yo]

Originally posted by Yo
This time, however, I noticed mention of a software company I had never heard of, that one was agreeing to let that company access your computer through the Internet, etc. [/B]

I see where I had notated the name of that company:

"Responsetarget"

When I saw that name in the software license, that by installing I would be agreeing to let that company access my computer through the Internet, it immediately caught my eye. Doesn't sound like the usual freeware license, that's for sure.

[Yo]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
STOP IT! READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST!!!
Someone plz close this thread...

Are you opposed to free speech?

[len0x]

To prevent discussions about freedom of speech and unnecessary off-topic polemics (and because indeed everything has been said by both sides and me) this thread is closed.