potentially dangerous file in AutoGK instalation pack

[buk]

I found, that library "dae.dll" instaled together with AutoGK is defined as spyware/malware (by saoftware called "a-squared") and also instals Browser Helper Object (BHO). My question is what is the dae.dll like and why is detected as malicious program. I think it is better to make AutoGK without such a potentially dangerous files (e.g. without auto new version of AutoGK checking). I think that AutoGK is fantastic software, but using files as dae.dll should caused problems in the field of computer security. Thanks for your excelent work on Auto GK and for solving this problem. Have a nice day and holidays. buk

[SiXXGuNNZ]

if dae.dll is spy/adware, maybe the auto update box should be unchecked by default during the install. I like the feature myself, so i will continue to check it, but to avoid people crying wolf, maybe the installer should have it unchecked.

[buk]

Yes, of course i unchecked the instalation of auto new version checking. The program DAE wasn´t instaled, but the library "dae.dll" instaled was. It is not very good, I think. So, this is the problem. buk

[len0x]

First, dae.dll has nothing to do with AutoGK's "check for update" capability.
Second, DAE is indeed a BHO-based ad system (sort of like Google's adsense, i.e. its content based). When installed - _very_ rarely it shows ads relevant to the websites you're visiting.
Third, full DAE disclamer can be found at the end of AutoGK's license.
Fourth, DAE can be safely uninstalled from add/remove programs with no traces left.
Fifth, AutoGK will still run without DAE as it doesn't in any way connected to it.
Sixth, yes, I sold my soul to the devil :) Meaning this is the dark future I promised you a while ago. Its just a way of keeping the project going. If all goes well I'll not only be able to continue developemnt of AutoGK at a good rate, but (as it requires less time these days) also make some improvements to regular GK.
Seventh, system is in testing process and only bundled with beta version of AutoGK so far.
Eighth, it only works within IE (firefox users won't notice it)
Ninth, dae.dll is really the only file installed.

[buk]

Yes, you really sold your soul to Devil. Do you know the story about man named Faust? What he did for money, success and so on? And how he was terminated after having money and success? Don’t play with the Devil. Hidden leaving suspected file dae.dll (maybe another files too) in system after refusing install or deinstall DAE is a very bad practise (in my opinion). I personally admire your work on AutoGK and GK, but if you will play with Devil many users could change their faith in you. I understand your need of money or something else, but chosen way seems to be way to Hell. Please, think it over. Money is not THE ONE reason we are living for. Have a nice day and Holiday. Buk

PS: DAE couldn´t be safely uninstalled, because dae.dll stays in system

[len0x]

Originally posted by buk
PS: DAE couldn´t be safely uninstalled, because dae.dll stays in system

Don't panic. Once you reboot the system - it'll be gone (files cannot be deleted if they are in use).

[buk]

You are right, dae-dll is removed after rebooting system, but terrible is the fact, that DAE is instaled silently. I´m using SpywareGuard a SpywareBlaster so i detected the silent instalation of DAE, but what about the others, who don´t know about safe computing and their protection before silent instalation is bad? There just should be some notice during instalation, that DAE will be instaled. Simple, clear and no problem. Similar to instalation pack of DivX 5.1.1 adware version. Thats what i mean all the time we write this thread. Its just about faith.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by buk
Yes, you really sold your soul to Devil.....

@buk
C'mon, this paranoid thinking is leading you nowhere.
Look around you, all this sh..y browser addons, like Google toolbar, adobe reader, etc. fool you into adverts.
If you're really interested in internet security, don't use microsoft
at all. I really don't know of any other software like Internet Explorer which is phoning home so much.
So if len0x decided to put some advertising code to his (beta) software, he's right.
You want to benefit from his experience, but don't want to pay the price.
Love it or leave it :D ;)

..and of course you can disable it, even uninstall it, without loosing
function control.
As long as it doesn't interfere with the encoding progress, like Divx did and does, why worry?

I try to keep my system as fast, slick and clean as it can get.
But I'm more a realist now. You have to weight out the benefits for the downsides.
So it's up to you.

I think this will be the start of an interesting discussion here on Doom 9 ......

Cheers

Taurus

[jggimi]

Moved to development forum.

[len0x]

@Taurus :goodpost:

[buk]

Hi, Taurus and LenOx,
yes you have a piece of truth. But, in the world we living in, when internet is full of problems and dangerous files, hackers, spy, crime and all other …......, there is no paranoia to keep your own safety, as strong as is possible. As i say: „If they say that you are just paranoid when it seems to you that somebody is pursuing you, it doesn´t mean that somebody really doesn´t pursue you“. And if you want, as Patrick Kolla (Spybot S & D author) say „Bad guys never sleep“. What i might know, AutoGK install pack or web pages might be hacked. LenOx might went mad (cha cha, sorry LenOx nothing personally to you, just example). There is more possibilities. Now, when I know, that DAE is a part of AutoGK from lenOx decision, everything is clear. LenOx has full right to do with his work what he think is the best for him, and others could accept it or leave it. You are right.

To security, I think, that the problem is not only in programs, the problem is in people too. Security problems have most of big programs i know, Windows, Linux, Mac, IE, Mozilla, Firefox. Opera, Netscape etc. Here is no absolutely secure system. A few weeks ago was in one PC magazine (CHIP) test of operation systems security. Tested was win XP, Mac X, Linux (i don´t remember what distribution) as is installed without patches (clear first instalation) and after instalation all patches. And the result? The most secure operation system after first installation was Linux, but after instalation of all patches the most secure system was Win XP. Fully patched Linux and Mac was absolutely defeated. Are you shocked? For example Mozilla and Firefox had, and i dont have any illusions that still has, critical security problems as IE has.

With this knowledge was my shock from sudden using advert robot in AutoGK much bigger, because i really don´t expected anything like that after my longtime very good and secure experience with AutoGK. Yes, I know everything is in progress. Just the silent instalation without notice is surprising, and it reminds me underground´s (hacker, spy) methods. It just mean for me, that I should be cautious to every version of AutoGK. Do you know what kind of robot or suspected code will be in next version of AutoGK? I don´t. Till yesterday i though, that using AutoGK is secure without any special steps. Today i know, that when i install a new version of AutoGK, I must deeply scan my system for silently instaled programs or codes. Nothing more, nothing less. Just another disappointment about perfect programs starting as clear and real freeware and slowly changing in silent money machine.

So this is the life and i can do nothing with it.

Have a nice day, buk

[chilled]

well this is surprising for me. I wouldnt expect to find adware (or whatever) on autogk.
I think it's a personal decision which I wont criticise but I think Len0x should warn of this more clearly on installation or somewhere (not just only at the end of the license or whatever-like).
I am absolutely not worried of DAE in terms of security but the main thing is that this definately doesnt "stick" to this sharp tool in anyway. I am not complaining about making money (milestones and paypal is a much more appreciated way I think) but about a decision that "darkens" autogk in some way.
I think a good solution would just be to give the user the choice whether to install DAE or not, but in the autogk installation process, not after having it on the system. I would just be nicer, but maybe this is not a possibility which can be dealed with the company (whoever).
Id like to know if next stable version will include DAE or if those releases will "never" include it.
btw, M2 is approaching...

[len0x]

Next stable version will probably contain DAE as well, and if it will then it will have a separate license page in the installer (and it will always be installed). The reason its sort of hidden now - I do not want to make a big deal out of it until its certain that system is in production and I will go ahead with it.

[drf666]

Originally posted by len0x
Next stable version will probably contain DAE as well, and if it will then it will have a separate license page in the installer (and it will always be installed).

Will it still be removable like it is right now, or will AutoGK be unable to run without DAE?

[len0x]

At the moment I don't have plans for DAE to be compulsory for AutoGK to run.

[Carraway]

Hey len0x. Just wanted to let you know this is the worst idea ever. There is no quicker way to alienate your users than by bundling adware. Taurus makes some interesting points, but the fact of the matter is that most users aren't nearly as forgiving as he is, and most aren't willing to simply rationalize away their misgivings about adware. I know I'm not.

Let me address a few points:

1. It doesn't matter how harmless or unobtrusive the adware is -- it's still adware (pop-up adware, at that). At least as far as reputation is concerned, people see anything resembling adware being installed and immediately associate it with the kind of software that has, in the past, hijacked their computer, or harvested websurfing data, or inundated them with popups. Adware has a bad image, and now that image is going to be associated with AutoGK. Terrific.

2. The fact that it's easy to uninstall doesn't make it OK that it was installed to begin with. This program is for noobs. You think they're going to be able to disable this adware? I doubt it.

3. I'm angry that I can no longer recommend this to friends anymore, which I have done in the past many, many times. Why? Because I don't want them to come back at me with, "Hey, that program installed some adware junk on my computer." I could rehash all of Taurus's arguments to them, and they'd still come back with, "Yeah, that may be so, but it installed adware on my computer."

I'm genuniely curious to see how the community responds to this development. Most of the people on this forum embrace free, open-source software. So now that AutoGK is neither, it will be interesting to see the response. I'm personally pissed off and feel (perhaps irrationally so) a bit betrayed. Given Taurus's annoyingly provocative "love it or leave it" ultimatum, I'm fairly certain which one I would choose.

Anyway, that's my perspective. Even though all signs are pointing to the opposite, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the next stable version will be adware free.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by Carraway
Hey len0x. Just wanted to let you know this is the worst idea ever.

How many people have this google searchbar (or any other) installed?
Hoe many people are using acrobat reader? Did you notice the blinking adverts?
They are selfmaintaining, that means every once in a while they're
updating themselve silently (just happened today with the google searchbar). They are exchanging dll's and code to their liking.
Nobody notice it and nobody's crying out loud.
Everyonce in a while MS is changing code silently, nobody claims them for to be evil, everybody is shouting hail to the leaders, because they are giving something for free.
So if len0x decides to handle it the same way, he is just doing what everyone on the net is doing now. --to get something back for their hard work.
All this shouting about free community and free software, what a bluff.
Look at Nero. Everyonce in a while part of the program is phoning home, even if you disabled all known switches and nobody is in trouble yet here at doom9.
To make it clear: I don't like adverts and adware either.
If I can't kick it off, surely I will switch to something else.
But in this case (AutoGK) there are no hidden traps. You can use the advert to show your appreciation for len0x work or just disable it
and still have full functions.

DAE is just one single dll and the uninstaller just regsvr32 /U /S.
While monitoring the registry during install of AutoGk, I could not see something obvious ore strange.
DAE belongs to my observations (correct me if I'm wrong) to
DAE (http://www.responsetarget.com/how-it-works/)
So make up you're mind and please differentiate between advertising
and spyware, browser hijacking, trojan behavior, etc.

Sorry for this long post.
But the devil has nothing in here :devil: ;) ,
just plain manpower...

Cheers

Taurus

...who killed hundred of viruses, hoaxes, spies and hitchhikers :D :p

[fuct]

Which beta version did you start putting the adware into? I thought I saw the answer in one of these threads, but now I cannot find it.

Also,
This isn't something that is going to be added to the original GK, correct?

[Carraway]

Originally posted by Taurus
How many people have this google searchbar (or any other) installed?
Hoe many people are using acrobat reader? Did you notice the blinking adverts?
They are selfmaintaining, that means every once in a while they're
updating themselve silently (just happened today with the google searchbar). They are exchanging dll's and code to their liking.

I don't see the connection between the Google/Adobe programs and AutoGK's adware. Just to be clear, if AutoGK was just "phoning home" or "updating" itself as the Google & Adobe programs do, I would have absolutely no problem with it. As a matter of fact, I don't have a problem with it when it checks for a new version (if I did, I would opt out by unchecking the box upon install). My problem lies in the fact that now, as a condition of installing AutoGK, I'm forced to install a separate, unwanted program that monitors my browsing and delivers unwanted ads.

The Google toolbar and Adobe reader themselves are not analagous to what AutoGK is now doing. If Google and Adobe started surreptiously bundling this very same RESPONSETARGET adware along with their products, I would be just as angry.

Originally posted by Taurus
Nobody notice it and nobody's crying out loud.

Well, this was clearly len0x's intention, considering that he didn't mention it until someone found it on their own. There's no mention of it in the changelog (even though it's without question the most significant change to the AutoGK package in quite a while), there was no indication of its installation, and the RESPONSETARGET license is buried at the end of AutoGK's own license. So, yeah, I don't think he wanted anyone to know. Do you think, perhaps, because he knew an AutoGK with bundled adware was not going to go over well?

Originally posted by Taurus
Everyonce in a while MS is changing code silently, nobody claims them for to be evil, everybody is shouting hail to the leaders, because they are giving something for free.
So if len0x decides to handle it the same way, he is just doing what everyone on the net is doing now. --to get something back for their hard work.

Everyone thinks MS is evil! :) But that is neither here nor there.

I understand len0x's intentions with the adware -- he's a capitalist like everyone else, and he deserves some kind of monitary reward for the hard work he's put into AutoGK. But by installing adware into his software that we are forced to install, he's essentially selling out his user base to an advertising company so he can profit. It's a valid way to make money, I suppose, but it's probably at the expense of the goodwill of his users.

Originally posted by Taurus
All this shouting about free community and free software, what a bluff.
Look at Nero. Everyonce in a while part of the program is phoning home, even if you disabled all known switches and nobody is in trouble yet here at doom9.
To make it clear: I don't like adverts and adware either.
If I can't kick it off, surely I will switch to something else.
But in this case (AutoGK) there are no hidden traps.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that people in this community and on this forum prefer free software. They'll use commercial software if there is no alternative, but there's a clear preference for software that is free and open. Until 1.84, AutoGK was at least free, if not open -- now it is neither. But that point is somewhat irrelevant at the moment.

The bigger point is that it doesn't matter that it's easy to uninstall. I realize that it would be simple for me to uninstall len0x's adware, but by the same token, it would be simple for me to pirate Divx Pro, or TMPGEnc, or even, yes, Nero. The ease with which I evade its commercialism doesn't negate the fact that it's commercial to begin with.

(Btw, to len0x: when the next stable version is released, you should still offer version 1.60 Stable and label it as the "non-adware" version. People need to have a choice of whether they want the new features + adware, or old-features + adware-free).

Originally posted by Taurus
You can use the advert to show your appreciation for len0x work or just disable it
and still have full functions.

No no. I'm forced to show my "appreciation" to len0x, at least initially. If the adware was really just intended for those who wanted to show their appreciation for len0x's work, it would be implemented like this: (a) in the installation of AutoGK, there would be a clear checkbox for the RESPONSETARGET software, and (b) it would, by default, but UNCHECKED. That way people who wanted to support len0x with the adware could do so.

Originally posted by Taurus
So make up you're mind and please differentiate between advertising
and spyware, browser hijacking, trojan behavior, etc.

So we're clear, here are my complaints. First, I'm disappointed that AutoGK is now commercial. I realize that this is len0x's right, it's his software, etc etc etc. But I always get angry after something that is ostensibly free develops a solid userbase and then becomes commercial -- I was just as upset when MP3 files (and Compuserve GIF files, in a different instance) were suddenly going to be subject to licensing fees after years of being free. Second -- adware?? With all the stigma attached to it, with all the obvious disdain shown for this kind of thing on these very forums (Doom9 has a freakin' guide on how to evade Divx Pro's adware), it had to be adware? I thought the milestone solution was going so well (and don't get me started on the fact that the people who donated did not realize that it was only a matter of time before the software they were "supporting" was going to become commercial anyway).

I don't care that it phones home. I care that it's now commercial, and that it forces me to install adware. These changes are clearly within len0x's right as a software programmer, but I'm a user, and it's my job to give feedback. :) I don't like it.

Originally posted by fuct
This isn't something that is going to be added to the original GK, correct?

I'm pretty sure since GK is GPL'ed, it can't be included. Or, at least, if it was included, someone would just take the source and recompile it without the adware. :)

[buk]

Great comments Carraway, i absolutelly agree with you. To Taurus´s post i have some thought. Maybe it´s repeating some of your thoughts.

Taurus think, that silent instalation of advertising or other f.....g internal information collecting robot, no matter if you call it adware, spyware, malware or other-ware, into users machine without users permission and even without users noticing, is OK. He must really be crazy. LenOx should at first clearly say to users, that in AutoGK is any robot (may be because donoring is not enough and he needs money for further developing). Also he should clearly say what the robot is like. But, he really didn´t do it. Instead of that he voted silent instalation of the suspected code to every users machine. It´s nothing else but silent infection as hackers smuggle trojan horses into systems of other people.

And is really not important, if it is just one little file, which is uninstalable, and if there are many other suspected programs. Important is only the fact, that lenOx instals DAE silently without any previous information. Do you realy love listening bugs or big-brothers in your machine? It is nothing else than very very bad practice.

In my opinion LenOx (or somebody else who put DAE into AutoGK) just abused faith of the users into previous cleanness of AutoGK.

Also you and other people should remember, that AutoGK is perfect thanks to users too, because users are beta testers and write lenOx experiences and bugs reports in this forum. Users also give lenOx ideas for further development. And what they got for their long time help? Hidden and dangerous information robot. It´s really funny for me, when you write, this is OK. Do you realy love somebody, who uses your help and silently listen your phone calls? Someone, to whom you help and who silently gives bugs into your machine? Someone who abuses your good faith and silently give your machine into hands of advertisers? It is bad practise and I don´t like this dark methods.

It is really not fair policy. Now, everybody knows, what he may await from AutoGK. Perfect program with potentially dangerous spyware.

Last news from LenOx is about noticing DAE instalation before the instalation. It´s better choice than silent instalation. That ´s the fair policy with main motto:„Do you want my program? OK, but here are my rules.“ That´s clear. OK. I can vote.

Have a nice time.

Buk

[Axed]

What i think this boils down to is a mans time. Either yours, or Len0x's. If you want to save your own time, and use an automated program like AutoGK, but you have to pay for the time that Len0x has put into the program in one way or another.

If you want to use your own time, learn to use Gordian Knot and thank the community at large who have developed that. Unlike AutoGK, Gordian Knot has had many people develop it, most recently that lovely man 'tHe gLouCh' who has helped to iron out alot of the bugs with Len0x.

My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it and i will continue to recommend it to friends. But, i also always try to talk friends into doing it the old GK way because in my opinion, you can get better results. It will take your own time tho, and most people are not willing to give that up.

[Carraway]

Originally posted by Axed
What i think this boils down to is a mans time. Either yours, or Len0x's. If you want to save your own time, and use an automated program like AutoGK, but you have to pay for the time that Len0x has put into the program in one way or another.

This is a fair point. I certainly understand the rationale behind including the adware, and truthfully, once len0x removes the "surreptitious" aspect of it I'll have no real ethical argument against it. However, by arguing against it, my hope is that perhaps len0x will reconsider the commercial aspect of it entirely, or find a better way to make money off of the program.

(I actually have a personal stake in all of this: I constantly champion this program among my friends who rip DVD's and now that it has adware bundled with it, it makes it feel like I'm pushing some kind of virus or trojan on them -- like I'm a culprit in screwing with their computers, you know?).

Originally posted by Axed
My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it...

"My personal stance on the inclusion..." of the adware? You're happy? I don't understand what you mean.

Originally posted by Axed
But, i also always try to talk friends into doing it the old GK way because in my opinion, you can get better results. It will take your own time tho, and most people are not willing to give that up.

The problem here is that a lot of people don't want to take the time to learn GK. With AutoGK it's just point and click, but most people don't know/care what a D2V file is, or how to write an AVS script etc etc. Personally I'm definitely considering switching back to GK (I switched to AutoGK because, like you said, it saved me time). But since I have nothing but time (http://forum.doom9.org/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=25992), the whole adware development may be the impetus for me to simply switch back to regular GK. :)

[chilled]

I just dont get why you/he implemented this adware if there was the milestone/paypal thing that was working well (imho).
While reading the posts I have been thinking about the fact: a software for newbies installing adware on their quite unsecured computers (instead of doing it on a program -GK, yes I know its GPLed-which is for advanced users who know how to be protected) and I just dont find it fair. Not for the fact of including adware (a bit too, indeed) but on the fact of the intended users. And I just remembered an intelligent thought of Bill Gate$, about his own computer being more secured on the internet when other peoples computers were more protected... so when someone who knows nothing about computers gets his own full of viruses, etc it does increase risks for all the others.
Well, Im not very worried about this indeed, but I really have not appreciated the way it has been introduced (obviously everyone will prefer a stable version which tells you "hey, approve this separate license", than this beta one.
I also agree with the one who asks for the 1.60 stable to be "eternally" available, especially for the "this one has the important features so far" thing. I think at the moment DTS and other beta improvements so far (even future AVI input or MKV/OGM output) are not interesting enough by themselves (I totally agree Len0x argument that autogk has reached his objective) to justify the possible non-availability of 1.60.

[Axed]

Good point Carraway. I can see how you would feel a bit reponsible especially if your friends talked about Dr.DivX and you said theres a better freeware (with no junk!) program, because i said that to my friends. But, as long as the spyware/adware/whatever isnt annoying and is just, say, a small ad banner that you see while your encoding in AutoGK i dont think its that bad.

With regards to my statement about "My personal stance on the inclusion to AutoGK is that im happy to see it..." what i ment was i think it is a good inclusion to help with the development if it inspires len0x to develop the program more and not stop. Sorry for not being very clear on that point.

To be truthful, im really not sure how to feel on this anymore after thinking about it. I'll still endorce the program to my friends as long as it doesnt become complete crapware that has hundreds of banners that just mysteriosly popup. Like i said, id prefer to see a banner that people can see while encoding if there has to be banners in AutoGK.

edit: added a line to first paragraph

[Taurus]

Originally posted by buk
Taurus think, that silent instalation of advertising....is ok


You got me totally wrong.
For a long time now I'm into internet security. I can't remember how many machines I have desinfected and stealthed again crapware.
But this have to be weightend differently.
I personally think that len0x has made a shot in the dark to see how the community is reacting.
As this is just beta software, not intended for everyday users, he's got the right to experiment whith some changes, even they are controvers to likings or dislikings of the beta users.
That's why it is called beta :D .

To make it clear:
If there is adware in next stable versions of AutoGk, it must be clearly pointed out at install progress and at top of the disclaimer.
If not, most people nowadays might find it suspicious.
Even some notes of what it does (and what not)will be welcomed.

But, I agree, if a (better)working donation system could be implanted, this would be the right choice and we could stop this awfull discussion.:mad:

A Merry Christmas to all of you

Cheers

Taurus

[Carraway]

Hey guys, just a bit more info on the DAE adware that AutoGK installs. I've been using a program called Privoxy for a couple of days just to test it out, and one of its features is that it essentially logs all 'net traffic on my computer, so I thought I'd use it to see just what the DAE softare tracks or receives. As far as I can tell, RESPONSETARGET gets to see virtually everywhere you go online.

Example: I type in www.doom9.org in IE, Privoxy logs this activity:

Dec 24 11:52:20 Privoxy(01304) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/sho
wit.php?u=97883&p=1243&url=http://www.doom9.org/
Dec 24 11:52:28 Privoxy(06644) Request: www.doom9.org/
Dec 24 11:52:29 Privoxy(07696) Request: www.doom9.org/framekill.js
Dec 24 11:52:30 Privoxy(06080) Request: www.doom9.org/frameset.js
Dec 24 11:52:31 Privoxy(04112) Request: www.doom9.org/top.html
[...etc...]


Apparently I'm U=97883 or something. Anyway, I go to Google:

Dec 24 11:54:39 Privoxy(02884) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/sh
owit.php?u=97883&p=1243&url=http://google.com/
Dec 24 11:54:40 Privoxy(02404) Request: www.google.com/

I click on Google Groups!

Dec 24 11:56:31 Privoxy(02796) Request: groups-beta.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=
Dec 24 11:56:31 Privoxy(05660) Request: dae.responsetarget.com/showit.php?u=97883&p=1
243&url=http://groups-beta.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=
Dec 24 11:56:34 Privoxy(05296) Request: groups-beta.google.com/img/watched_y.gif
[...it goes on...]

And so on. So after hours of web browsing, I can only assume that RESPONSETARGET has a whole history of U=97883's web browsing. I don't know what they do with this information -- whether they are honorable and genuinely only use it for targeted ads and then promptly purge it, or if they harvest the info and sell it, etc etc. But they're an adware company so they're not at the peak of business ethics to begin with, so I suspect it's something closer to the latter.

Edited for better formatting

[Wolfman]

Wouldnt the best adware be from one of the Dvd rental companies :devil:

Donations have problems too.

How about time limited Adware ? maybe 1 month or some such. Then self purge.

[buk]

To Taurus

If you wrote about beta versions and experimenting with new features, why the new feature of silent DAE instalation is not mentioned in the list of new features, which is every time presented on www.autogk.net with the notice obout a new version. Other new features are mentioned there. What a mystery? Why the betas are downloadable by all people and not only by eg. registered beta testers? Another mystery? I think it ´s too mysteries in one case.



To Carraway´s post i would like to add, that nobody really don´t need that anybody else knows about pages he visited on the web. Collecting these information about behaviour on the web is really no ADWARE feature as somebody thinks, but it is pure SPYWARE feature. It just spies and sends data to nontrustworthy third-party. It´s just a game with words, when somebody says that DAE is adware, but DAE is real and for every infected user very dangerous spyware. Each must be aware of it, because the information cellected by DAE could be very easy misused against users.

I personally think, that people who try to collect users personallities, even if they have a very good offer (AutoGK), are a bad guys and the offer must be refused. And what more, it is really funy that this bad guys try to convince other people that they are good guys, that they are giving other people something without can´t live any user. Fortunatelly, earlier or later will come a new really good guy, who will not infecting users computers.

AutoGK is not the only one, although it is very, very good. It´s just about user´s choice to use program with spyware, or to use less comfortable program or set of programs without spyware. It is just about little learning new methods.

That´s my opinion.

Nice Holiday

Buk

[richarddd]

If lenOx wants to include DAE in AutoGK, he should clearly disclose it.

[tdwest]

If lenox needs to add a little piece of spy ware so be it.
This is the software that got me into video encoding which is a good thing and bad thing:D This is my way of saying thanks alot for a great FREE program!!!

[len0x]

There is nothing in this thread that I wasn't prepare to hear. If you think that I consider this as greatest idea ever - you're mistaken. I had to make a piece with myself first... But having said that my main motive for doing this was that considerable number of ppl would feel like Axed said, i.e. "it is a good inclusion to help with the development if it inspires len0x to develop the program more and not stop". I have probably more than 100,000 users and even if I can continue to make happy just 10% of those - its still worth it.

Regarding milestones - its not quite working as expected (although it may look like it). Since M2 was announced only 35-40% of donations were actually for M2 - the rest was just normal donations and if it wasn't for holiday period M2 target would not be reached for another 2-3 months (and that is for the most wanted feature in AutoGK). Basically it will slow the development a lot, so we're back to the idea - if considerable number of ppl are still willing to see rapid development of AutoGK, then why not? (I have nothing to loose really - in the worst case I'll just stop developing it if I see that adware will make ppl abandon AutoGK completely. But I don't believe in that yet). If I make a poll on my website asking why are you using AutoGK with choices like "its free", "its the best", "it doesn't contain adware/spyware", the latter choice would not be the most popular one I bet. It all comes down to the value of AutoGK for each individual user.

P.S. About web serfing statistics - everyone's doing it. Google is logging all the keywords you search for along with your IP address. Why? Because every ad provider has to price keywords (the more popular the keyword, the higher the price), so they keep those stats along with geographical distribution. No one is really interested to see individual web surfing history (it would take huge amount space and not worth keeping, so its aggregated). DAE is doing the same by extracting keywords from URLs.

[CeeJay.dk]

I think its fine that Lenox is trying to make more money off AutoGK.
But when installing spy/adware you should have the option of choosing in the installer whether or not to install it.
This way you clearly notice that it is being installed, and you can always choose not to install it.

Another acceptable way of earning a bit of revenue would be to include ads in the installer itself , and perhaps some small unobtrusive ones in the program.

[DAvenger]

Originally posted by len0x
P.S. About web serfing statistics - everyone's doing it. Google is logging all the keywords you search for along with your IP address. Why? Because every ad provider has to price keywords (the more popular the keyword, the higher the price), so they keep those stats along with geographical distribution. No one is really interested to see individual web surfing history (it would take huge amount space and not worth keeping, so its aggregated). DAE is doing the same by extracting keywords from URLs.

This is so true. I wonder why so many people think that someone is keeping a whole room of files on their surfing habits. This is online advertising, you have to know at least something about the audience - otherwise you can go and burn the money and achieve the same effect.

You have to stop being commies.

[niamh]

You go len0x :)

to the people who think the IRA or something manufactured that dll to blow the world and the neighbouring planets, and that by the time you have removed it (2 and a half minute, if you´re really dumb), you will still die of a horrible death anyway : learn to rip.

PS: Beware of killing the goose with the golden eggs, if I were you I´d swallow the medicine :)


(2nd PS : if everybody was using firefox as minimum common sense would have it, this discussion would be void in the first place)

[ydobon]

Hi, all.

First and as always, Len0x wrote AutoGK so he can do whatever he wants with it. If I don't like spyware, I'm free to not use it.

Problem is: AutoGK wasn't spyware. When I installed v1.84b, and after dozens of versions installed, I didn't read the 5400-word license anymore because I (wrongly) assumed that any significant change would be clearly stated. For example in the changelog.

But no. And the top of AutoGK license still says: "Freeware License Agreement". So congratulations, you got me. And you probably got also 99.9% of your non-technical target audience.

Ok. No biggie. I don't use IE and I uninstalled DAE. And if one day it can't be uninstalled and I don't want it in my computer, I'll look for an alternative. But from now on, AutoGK is on the list of programs that do things without telling me. And Len0x is on the list of programmers that (try to) hide what his program does to his users' computers.

So yes, niamh, I'll swallow the medicine, but don't expect me to be happy about it. And I hope the people who donated don't feel cheated (I think I would). BTW, is the milestone idea gonna be continued after M2?

Oh, and niamh, if "everybody was using firefox as minimum common sense would have it," I'm sure the people at RESPONSETARGET would made their nice piece of software firefox-friendly.

[Corence]

I agree with lenOx's pursuit of finding income for his time spent developing this wonderful program. The inclusion of this adware program is a simple solution.

However, I agree that it should be stated in the changelog or on the website that there is a new adware feature. It wouldn't change my mind about the quality of this product. I would certainly prefer dealing with an easily removed adware component compared to paying for it with cash up front, such as inferior products like Dr. DivX!

Perhaps it would be best to include it only on the website, so that those who take the time to visit the autogk site can see it, but those who are just ripping off software from torrent sites (and I have seen autogk on a few) are left with this little adware surprise. :D For those of us who follow the development in the forums and download the software from lenOx, I feel that we should be notified somehow prior to installation that this is taking place.

Keep up the good work, lenOx! Just let us know when you're making such changes, please.

[Sharktooth]

Uhm, i'm sorry but as long as i unistall DAE and AutoGK still works (i used it 3 times in total and only for testing) then i will do it.
Since i don't consider myself a fulltime AutoGK user (i prefer manual encoding and dont even use regular GK...) i will continue to uninstall DAE.
When i will need AutoGK seriously, i'll prefer making one or more donations but i dont want software i didnt ask for on my computer.

OT:
Originally posted by niamh
E pericoloso sporghersi.
It's "E' pericoloso sporgersi." ...

[niamh]

So yes, niamh, I'll swallow the medicine, but don't expect be to be happy about it.
I never implied you should be.

len0x has previously stated his reasons for not advertising the dll in this particular beta build. I think most of you have managed by now to establish(at length) he is a dirty malicious sneaky scoundrel ;)
Now, my point is, can we get on with it ? :)

[OT]@ Sharktooth: thanks a bunch for the correction, it has indeed been a while since I´ve been in a french train (some private jokes are bad enough, but with errors get to be worse indeed ;))

[BigDid]

Originally posted by niamh

[OT]@ Sharktooth: thanks a bunch for the correction, it has indeed been a while since I´ve been in a french train (some private jokes are bad enough, but with errors get to be worse indeed ;))

Happy new year to all multilingual train users ;)

Hummm, in french I believe it is something like "Ne pas se pencher à la fenêtre..." unless only french trains have these multilingual inscriptions? :D
To french readers, sorry it's also beeen a while since I've been in a train (french or other). :)

Did

[Sharktooth]

Ok, sorry for the offtopic again...
The niamh signature is in Italian and can be found on any cross country train (for example Eurostars).

Back in topic...
I know what len0x said but i dont like to have software i didnt asked to install. If i want a mpeg4 conversion tool i dont want a spyware+mpeg4 conversion tool, expecially if that spyware is an "always running" application, and it's there even when i dont use the conversion tool.
Most of you will say "then dont use it or pay $$$". My answare is: i prefer paying some $$$ and get that software without spyware.

[stephanV]

With me, the problem is not the adware/spyware, but the fact that len0x didnt seem to mention it anywhere.

[fewtch]

Really glad I found this thread, I had DAE installed on my Win2k partition. To think every URL I typed in my browser was being sent to some company for review, without my knowledge or permission... that's scary.

Whether it's really risky or not, it feels like a personal violation. One's private behaviors to be exposed without knowledge or permission, perhaps logged/archived forever somewhere. I'm really offended by this. :mad:

[ydobon]

And so it begins...
http://www.sowbug.org/

Thanks God I don't use URLs like server.com/?usr=username&pwd=password (specially not in IE). If you do, the guys at www.responsetarget.com have a backup copy of your login information, in case you lose it :devil:


Regards,

[fileman]

I was just updating AutoGK to 1.84beta when I got that alert from my virus scanner:

http://www.directupload.net/images/050104/fygq6G6p.png
("C:\...\TEMP\TEMP.EXE is the trojan horse TR/Dldr.Agent.fy")


Is this related to the topic of this thread in any way, or is it the next step, or just false alarm?

[len0x]

Originally posted by fileman
("C:\...\TEMP\TEMP.EXE is the trojan horse TR/Dldr.Agent.fy")


It is a DAE installer, not a trojan...

[fileman]

Ok, thanks for the clarification len0x. Then it's a faulty classification in my virus scanner's database.

Well, this made it easy to not install the Adware at all, I chose "delete this file" and it was gone and couldn't be executed by AutoGK setup.

[len0x]

Originally posted by ydobon
And so it begins...
http://www.sowbug.org/


Yeah, the sad thing (as I expected) is that even before I actually go ahead with this system its already advertized as a fact. Now you understand why I sort of hide it in the first place.

[fileman]

Come on len0x, you should have known that everybody would rip AutoGK into pieces...
It's like that with every program that suddenly comes with adware, and if it's done by a trusted good programmer like you, it's even more a shock to everyone and the "wave of disgust" is even larger than with some company whom nobody trusted before.

[ydobon]

Hi, Len0x.

Originally posted by len0x
Yeah, the sad thing (as I expected) is that even before I actually go ahead with this system its already advertized as a fact. Now you understand why I sort of hide it in the first place.
Err... not to be picky about words, but you actually *went* ahead with it and *it's* a fact. Or did I dream about uninstalling DAE? :rolleyes:

and... "sort of"?!? well, it's true you didn't rename the .dll but... ;)


Regards,

[len0x]

The system is not live and I didn't get a cent from it, so theoretically if I don't get an agreement with responsetarget then DAE will be removed from AutoGK's installer.