CCE encoding failed / MPVA VBV ovf frame# 0...

[Khauron]

Hey there,

I've been making backups for a while now (with VIP versions, of course). Last night I faced a new and a different kind of problem. I try to explain it here, but sorry if you miss the point. Here goes nothing:

The movie is finnish movie "Raid". Movie is original, it's PAL and R2. I ripped it to hard-drive with DVDDecrypter (all files -> VIDEO_TS sub-folder). Nothing strange here.

Installed DVD-RB 0.69-VIP just like the other version. I used CCE SP 2.67.00.27. Started to backup it fine. All went smoothly, DVD-RB started to backup it. Now I left to bed and the computer continued.

This morning when I took a look at it, the screen said this strange error:
http://www.testipenkki.com/misc/cce_encoding_failed.JPG
I clicked OK and next one:
http://www.testipenkki.com/misc/vinfo_open()_failed.JPG

What happened here? I doubt it's my mistake; I've done this before (the famous last words). I got the movie here, so I will try again this night. I will re-install everything and even re-rip the movie.

Thank you,

[Sir Didymus]

Hi Khauron :)

The problem you are reporting is known, and it has been discussed a lot, even recently, both in this forum and elsewhere...

Just pointing out some one of the most relevant:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84468

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77644

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85830

It seems the problem is someways general, meaning that no possibilities have been indicated for preventing it; anyway the cure, manual, is very simple:

Originally posted by Thrahald
Just so that the answer will help anyone with the question, for any version of cce, just load an avi/avs file, change the encode method to cbr (or whatever method(s) you would like the video_type code for and just save the ecl. load that ecl in notepad and voila.

Originally posted by robot1
Anyawy for every version of CCE CBR is video_type (or vmode) = 1
(I haven't checked the 2.70.xx ...)

Cheers,
SD

P.S. For further reading on the subject --> Search + VBR + OVF...

[Khauron]

OK, thank you for the "cure".
But this cure does worse quality than the normal way? I mean if the normal way is VBR, and now I change it to CBR. That is worser in difficult scenes, right?

Any ideas what causes this problem? Bad source?

[Sir Didymus]

Hi Khauron.

It is widely discussed in the indicated threads...
Please get a look at them...

The problem normally happens on very short video segments, [I hope it is clear you should change the encoding method just for the offending cell(s), not for the whole title...] and if you encode it/them at CBR 4000 or 5000 you hardly will see any difference.

You may play the encoded cell alone to see the result with your eyes...

[jdobbs]

Hmmm... I change the code to use CBR on segments of 60 or fewer frames when Half-D1 is selected. I wish I knew the "magic threshold" or "set of circumstances" that causes this error -- then I could adjust DVD-RB to make sure it never happens.

[Khauron]

I didn't choose the "Half-D1" option. All other options were set to somewhat normal. CCE passes were 6.

[pg55555]

jdobbs

Your change for short segments and Half D1 works very well. I have done a couple of movies with 0.69 that used to choke, and I had to manually modify rebuilder.ecl. Now those same movies encode well.

On the other side, I have found some episodes of Sex and the City (and I'm saying episodes because it happened only in some epidodes of somne discs, say 4 or 5 episodes of a total of 13 discs and 74 episodes I have done) where CCE came out with the error of reference or just froze during the encoding phase.

My solution: Change the encoding method of that episode from VBR (1+2) to OPV, using RBOpt.

If the size cames out slightly oversized (it happened to me), just use Shrink (ussually compressing the menus is enough to meet the DVD5 limit)

[wmansir]

Again, this isn't the half-D1 + short (blank) clips problems. That was an CCE_init() error.

Both errors can be fixed by going to CBR, but that's only because they are multipass VBR bugs in CCE, the actual causes are very different.

The CCE_init() error happens with very low complexity scenes and very very short segments, generally less than 60 frames. Those should be fixed with jdobbs recent changes. Switching these to CBR is no problem because they are less than a couple of seconds long so VBR doesn't have much of an impact anyway.

The VBV ovf is a some type of video buffer overflow which happens during very high complexity scenes. The length of the segment is not a factor. The HBO 'static' logo is a common cause because it's basically random video noise, which is very hard to compress. Check Sir D's links for discussion of this issue. The short of it is, it's a CCE bug and there isn't much DVD-RB can do to avoid it.

[pg55555]

wmansir

As always, a very clear an informative post.

And I think it explains why using OPV for the cells where the VBV ovf error happens can solve the problem: as it is a VBR related bug, using other encoding method would avoid it. And it works also on large cells, where changing the encoding to CBR is not practical.

[jdobbs]

Except of course for the very large group of DVD-RB users who use CCE Basic... as it has no OPV function. I have to come up with a better solution.

[Trahald]

ive had some encodes that error out doing opv (trying to encode the hbo static for example ) and yet work fine with vbr (1 + 1). its hard to say what a solution is (well except for cinemacraft to fix it )

[dizzyhazy]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Hi Khauron.

It is widely discussed in the indicated threads...
Please get a look at them...

The problem normally happens on very short video segments, [I hope it is clear you should change the encoding method just for the offending cell(s), not for the whole title...] and if you encode it/them at CBR 4000 or 5000 you hardly will see any difference.

You may play the encoded cell alone to see the result with your eyes...

Repeating myself in a different post, I just came up with the idea of using DVD Shrink to blank out the offending segment (the HBO logo, as I understand). If it is blanked out or even reduced to still pictures, maybe Rebuilder could handle it then since it will contain alot less video information. One note: you would want to rip the rest of the DVD uncompressed in DVD Shrink so Rebuilder can do the actual encoding.

Just a thought....

[wmansir]

That's basically the final solution if nothing else works. Another way to remove the video is to just blank it out by editing the .avs files. I wrote an AVS function to make this a bit easier and some instructions in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58361).

[jdobbs]

Repeating myself in a different post, I just came up with the idea of using DVD Shrink to blank out the offending segment (the HBO logo, as I understand). If it is blanked out or even reduced to still pictures, maybe Rebuilder could handle it then since it will contain alot less video information. One note: you would want to rip the rest of the DVD uncompressed in DVD Shrink so Rebuilder can do the actual encoding. I'm asking for ways to make DVD-RB work in this situation. I don't think "use another package for this section" would be a proper answer.

[jptheripper]

2 suggestions i found that workedd for me

average bitrate seems to have a minimum threshold (i dont know wht this is, but seems around 500). The difference in total size of a short clip (sub 60 or so frames) seems to justify atrificially increasing the bitrate, say to a minimum of 1000, with little increase in video size

second, 2.50 seems to work better than 2.67, in general, on short complex scenes.

just a thought

[jdobbs]

Right now any segment of 60 frames or less gets encoded using CBR at 6000Kbs.

[dizzyhazy]

Originally posted by jdobbs
I'm asking for ways to make DVD-RB work in this situation. I don't think "use another package for this section" would be a proper answer.
Long post here. Sorry for that!

First, jdobbs, I'm truly sorry if I have offended you in any way concerning a workaround to this slight problem. It has been stated before in other posts that it is a flaw with the later versions of Cinemacraft encoder, and not your work with Rebuilder. Personally, I think DVD Rebuilder is the best thing since sliced bread (I REALLY do!!!). It's just in my nature to explore any possibilities in the world to fix a problem. And I'm still doing that.... Thus my new findings on this matter (right or wrong!):

As stated many times before, there is a problem with encoding certain DVDs like The Shield and Sex And The City. Apparently there is a VBR problem with the latest Cinemacraft encoders. Modifying the .ECL file may be too complex for most people (including myself :(). I proposed that we subsitute the offending segments (less than 30 sec) with static pictures. I gave it a shot and the DVD goes no further than that image (when using DVD Shrink). When that happens, you have to click the 'menu' button and can continue normally. I didn't really like the result, so I tried other people's suggestion of doing the CBR thing or maybe even half-D1(I'm not all that keen on all this stuff, but I'm not afraid to try). I just tried running Rebuilder again (on a different computer) with hopes of getting it right with others' suggestions. I ran the three step process and was about to pay MUCH closer attention to the error message to follow others' suggestions alot more closely. What happened?

Darned if it didn't work perfectly on my other computer without having to do anything special. No errors at all and the resulting DVD came out perfectly fine. I never had to do any workarounds. My NEW question that has just arisen: is it a problem with the processor, motherboard, or combination of both? I know trivial things like video card and modem have nothing to do with Rebuilder. So what is it? Obviously something worked right on computer #2. I ran a particuar DVD six times on the first system with various settings and it never worked correctly. Then I was about to run some tests on computer #2 expecting the same problems, but it ran through the DVD just fine.

System #1 (that had errors every time):
2.4 Ghz Celeron (400 Mhz FSB)
512 MB RAM (PC333 1 chip Kingston)
Syntax motherboard
Maxtor ATA133 160GB hard drive

System #2 (ran fine first time):
2.53 Ghz P4 (533 Mhz FSB)
ASUS P4PE motherboard
1 Gb PC266 RAM (various name brand chips - Kinston and Cenetron, I think)
(2) Maxtor SATA 120 hard drive in RAID 0 array

I know Syntax motherboards are cheap, and my guess is that is the problem. ASUS is top notch stuff and that is the one that had no problems. Is this just a fluke or is the motherboard the possible culprit in this dilemma? Could it be the Celeron vs. P4 difference? I can't really see it but could it even be the difference between IDE vs. SATA RAID hard drives? To make things a bit weirder, a buddy of mine has even better stuff, mostly (ASUS mobo [don't know model #], P4 2.8Ghz running at 800 Mhz FSB, 1 Gb PC400 mem running in parallel, Maxtor ATA133 160Gb HD), but he also has the same errors as my Celeron system.

Just wondering if all these problems could be avoided by spending a few extra bucks on better equipment? I have both sets of equipment, so I have flexiblity that some others' don't. Curious if this could help others in the future by buying better quality components. Maybe we may have to start comparing system combinations before purchasing? Am I even on the right track? I have had both successes and failure with Rebuilder. Just trying to figure out what is the weak link here.

Once again, thank you, jdobbs, for the incredible DVD Rebuilder app you have blessed upon us!!!! I feel priviledged to be able to use it. It truly does wonders for our backups. Plus, I personally consider it a learning experience! Oh how much I've learned in the past couple months........:D

-Josh.

[jdobbs]

Hey, no offense taken. I didn't mean to sound as if it were.

[pg55555]

I think we have a couple of issues going on here:

- The CCE_init() error on half-D1 + short (blank) clips: This was solved by version 0.69, by encoding in CBR mode automatically.

- The VBV ovf video buffer overflow which happens during very high complexity scenes in which the length of the segment is not a factor, but the lack of enough bitrate it is.
In this last case it has been offered as solution the blanking / cutting of the offended cell. It assumes the cell is small or that only contains useless material.
This is not my experience with Sex andthe City (NTSC R4): In these discs each episode is a cell, so there is no easy way (that I know) of blanking (or replacing with the HBO logo and keeping the episode. The Shrink cutting method, to my knowledge, works only in reauthoring method, which means you would be losing the menues.
Changing to CBR is not a solution eihter as the cell is too long. The OPV works for me, but it is not good for CCE Basic.
An idea: Use Quenc as an alternative for these cases.
Other idea: I think Vobblanker has a cutting option (I have not used it) Maybe it would let you to cut the offending part (the HBO logo) while keeping the menues. Problem: You have to know what is the part that is causing trouble