DVB Question

[Master Yoda]

I was thinking about getting a dvd recorder to record the odd thing here or there, but im thinking about getting a DVB card for my pc instead as its cheaper than a dvd record. I have a question though, if i get a dvb card and i want to record say a wwe main event, i dont understand fully how this works,i order the event through the digibox,then i disconnect the satilite from the box, i connect the satilite straight to the dvb card so i have direct access to the content right ? but then how does the channel get decrypted as thats what the card thats inserted in the digibox is for....

Im talking about Sky in the uk.

[Latexxx]

There is no change of recording sky using a dvb card in your pc. As you said, the signal needs to be decrypted and the only way of doing this is to use some filthy super 3l33t h4x0r program and those don't exist for nds crypt/sky. Apparently your dish is targeted to Astra 2D and only channels marked with yellow on http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html can be recorded using a PC.
But there is another option! And it is even cheaper than buying a dvb-s card :D Buy yourself a cheap (analog) video capture card and connect it to sky's box. This allows you to create an almost exact copy of the original stream. You just need to encode your captured video to mpeg-2 and author a DVD from it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

All SkyDigital broadcasts that require a "viewing card" (within a SkyDigital set-top box) are scrambled using NDS's VideoGuard v2 encryption.

If you decide to buy a DVB-S card, you will only be able to watch/record unscambled stations, such as BBC1, 2, 3, 4, News24, ITV3, Sky News, some shopping channels and a few other "free-to-view" stations.

You will not be able to watch or record any scrambled TV or radio stations.


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

OK, Thanks....

I have a Leadtek TV2000 Expert TV Card, if i wanted to record something off sky thats not freeview like sky one or a wwe main event on box could i run a lead from the RF output on the digibox to my tv card and capture it that way.... This sould give me getter quality thatn vhs plus i can put it to dvdr easyer.

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by Master Yoda
I have a Leadtek TV2000 Expert TV Card, if i wanted to record something off sky thats not freeview like sky one or a wwe main event on box could i run a lead from the RF output on the digibox to my tv card and capture it that way.... This sould give me getter quality thatn vhs plus i can put it to dvdr easyer.
You are likely to get better picture if you use a scart-composite adapter and use the composite signal instead of using an RF modulated one.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Latexxx
You are likely to get better picture if you use a scart-composite adapter and use the composite signal instead of using an RF modulated one. Agreed... This can be done by connecting one of these devices to your Sky digiboxes VCR output: -

http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/13372i0.jpg


Or even one of these (if you want to keep your VCR permanently connected as well): -

http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/33041i0.jpg


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

OK, thanks guys.The only problem with the scart is my pc is up stairs and the sky box is down stairs.The main problem would be i would need to bring my monitor down stairs aswell with the pc so i can set the programs up and see what im capturing.

Im stilling keeping theidea of getting a dvd recorder, but thats a last option.Seen as its going to be cheaper to go from the sky box to my capture card.

Oh by the way, how will i know what resolution the channel is in seen as i wont have direct access to the content, or should i just do a capture at 720x576.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Master Yoda
...Oh by the way, how will i know what resolution the channel is in seen as i wont have direct access to the content, or should i just do a capture at 720x576. Wherever possible, always capture using the maximum amount of pixels and bitrate you can!

Most of Sky's own stations are broadcast using 720x576 pixels, with either 4:3 or 16:9 DAR signalling. With the exception of Sky News, which is often broadcast using 704x576 pixels with 4:3 DAR.


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Wherever possible, always capture using the maximum amount of pixels and bitrate you can!

I thought i have to capture to lowloss avi then convert to mpeg2 so the bitrate would'nt matter untill i encode to mpeg2.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Master Yoda
I thought i have to capture to lowloss avi then convert to mpeg2 so the bitrate would'nt matter untill i encode to mpeg2. Yep... this is good too!

What "low loss" codec are you able to use?

I hope you have a big enough hard-drive, as even commonly used DV.avi bit-rates run to around 225MB per minute or 13,500MB (13.18GB) per hour!


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

Well i was going to us Virtualdub with the huffyuv codec to capture, then cce to convert to mpeg2 so i can put the capture on dvd.I have two 120GB sata hdd's.One split with a 10gb, then the rest as one.HDD 2 is split 50/50. So one a guess how much space would a capture at 720x576 of a wwe main event that runs anyware between 2h40m to nearly 3h's take up using huffyuv??


All i need to figure out now is how im going to capture, dont really want to take my pc down stairs to capture from sky, moving the case aing so bad its just having to move the monitor as well along with disconnecting and re-connecting everything and i rather not use a super long RF lead. i do have some spare parts to build a small pc to just capture from sky, but its only a athlon 600mhz with 256mb ram.Dont think thats going to be fast enough somehow and it defeets the point of having to buy new parts which i dont want to do. Or i could do something some may say is a bit crazed, but i could make a super long composite lead to run from downstairs to upstairs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

From what I remember "fully uncompressed RGB" audio and video files run at around 2GB per minute!

And the "Huffyuv" lossless codec (with PCM audio) runs at around 640MB per minute. So even with this codec, you'll need a seriously big hard-drive to capture 180mins :eek:

With regard to your video connection. You may be interested to know that provided your RF coax lead is if good quality (double shielded), it can be used to carry video signals... but of course you would then have to run more cables for the audio signals!

So it sounds like, an RF connection is your only option!


Cheers

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
And the "Huffyuv" lossless codec (with PCM audio) runs at around 640MB per minute. So even with this codec, you'll need a seriously big hard-drive to capture 180mins :eek:
That is some serious disinformation. :D Capture it as yuy2 720*576 huffyuv or picvideo mjpeg @ q19.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Latexxx
That is some serious disinformation. :D Capture it as yuy2 720*576 huffyuv or picvideo mjpeg @ q19. I guess I should have mentioned that 640MB per min is what you get if you use Huffyuv (v2.1.1) with the default settings!

Like I said... this is from what I remember... I have not used Huffyuv (v2.1.1) for a looooong time!

Could you give Master Yoda some approx MBpm guides using your prefered settings... so he knows what hard-drive space to allow?


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

Man sounds like i will need a massive hdd for a wwe main event at full res with huffyuv.

Thanks for the info guys, now i know how to capture from sky without having to record to tape first.I'll give huffyuv a try on a 30 min episode of something, see how much space it takes up. Just out of interest what other option have i got for capturing, codec wise that will give high quality at full res but takes less space than lowloss avi... as i want to go to dvd.

All thats left it to decide how im going to connect the sky box to the pc....

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Master Yoda
... Just out of interest what other option have i got for capturing, codec wise that will give high quality at full res but takes less space than lowloss avi... as i want to go to dvd. Mpeg2 at highest bitrate you can (anything above 9000Kbps will be fine) using 720x576 pixel frame!

Once you've got a high bitrate Mpeg2 CBR source, you'll find it easier to transcode down to a 2pass VBR encode, suitable for storing onto DVD.


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

What would i use to encode stright to mpeg2 ?? and does it have to be CBR and who much space would be needed to capture directly to mpeg2 real time of a wwe main event ??

Also does the audio have to be separate to the sound or will it come out fine through the red and white composite going into the capture card? as i thinking of make a super long composite cable as the parts wont cost that much and any recommendations on what type of cable to use.

Thanks once again.

[SeeMoreDigital]

How long a cable run are you talking about?


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

About 15 Metres.Would'nt be run permenatly just run when needed.

About the mpeg2 encoding ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Master Yoda
About 15 Metres.Would'nt be run permenatly just run when needed.

About the mpeg2 encoding ? I'm not familiar with your Leadtek TV2000 Expert TV Card. But I would presume it offers various capturing modes!

With regard to your analogue audio connection. UK companies such as Maplin, Lektropacks and Keene Electronics have massive ranges.

Personally speaking, I make all my own leads, including 21pin scart, 15pin VGA, S-video, component, digital audio etc... I've even had a go at making an 20m long DVI lead - never again!


Cheers

[Master Yoda]

with the mpeg2 encoding, the card does'nt have a hard ware mpeg2 encoder, but i think i can capture to mpeg2 with software, only i dont know what software to use to capture to mpeg2 to give me really high quality, so that after i can encode it to dvd, plus i dont know how much space it will take up , a 3 hour capture that is.

Cables i have made before but not that long.With the audio i asked if the red and white composite leads would do fine as im sure i read it was better to capture the audio through the sound card rather than the capture card.

[eb]

When recording mpeg-2 signals from SS2 card, records are exactly as transmited by provider, that is the reason that it is possible to record up to 5 full video packages (video + 3audio + subtitles in each) or up to 25 audio channels at the same time, only 1 condition that they all are from the same transponder.
Now I am testing recording on fly to .avi with cropping of on fly, not required parts of picture. In case of 2.35:1 films 256 lines are cut off from 576, so procesor power is saved and , logos are off, and picture is recorded as 720x320 with better quality in comparison to records with full frames.

eb

PS It is possible to transcode on the fly with croping to mpeg-2 but video s mpeg-2 and audio as mp2 are muxed to .avi container

[Master Yoda]

I had a look on the back of my sky box and is has a s-video out, im guessing that if i capture using the s-video out and the two composites on the box for the audio this would give me a really good picture.


Any ideas on what programs can cap directly to mpeg2 as caping a 2h50m event using vdub and huffyuv is going to be BIG.

[SeeMoreDigital]

What make of Sky DigiBox is it... there are not that many with an s-video output?

By the way...

You can get a cheapo DVD recorder for around £120.00... why not treat yourself?


Cheers

[eb]

@ Master Yoda,

As you are familiar with VDM already then return back to it, instal for beggining Divex4.12 just for tests. Set at starting point one pass, fastest, max bitrate as i remember 4000 and quantization 2 and 8.
Try next play with this parameters.
I am sure than after this you can go to use ffdshow and play different tricks as described above, loosing quality only on video converter and cable between X-box and computer.
Good luck

eb

[Master Yoda]

Sky digital box is made by Grundig. I was thinking of getting a DVD Recorder and i may still do, but not just yet, i'll wait till after xmas and see whats about.For now i'll just mess about with stuff, bring the pc downstairs, connect the sky using a s-video lead see what comes out.Im not going to mess about with divx i'll just stick with huffyuv, thanks for your help guys.