How to 2.35?

[richarddd]

I just encoded a 2.35 aspect ratio DVD to a DVD, using the third AR entry on drop-down list, "Anamorphic (no borders, encoded as 16:9)" Alas, it seems to have actually encoded as 16:9 rather than 2.35, at least that's how it looks when played on my TV (sides cut off and borders too short). The original DVD plays properly. Splitting with DVD Shrink also produces DVDs that play properly.

From reading the Q&A and searching for 2.35 in this forum, it seems DVD2SVCD should have produced the proper AR. BTW, the link in Q11 is broken.

What am I doing wrong? What other information might be needed to answer this?

EDIT: I just rechecked the DVD on my PC. AR is correct. Why does it look ok on PC but wrong on TV, especially when un-encoded looks fine on TV?? I feel I'm missing something obvious :o

EDIT 2: Same result with a 2.2 AR movie. Tried a different DVD player with the same result - encoded appeared to be 1.85, original and DVD Shrink split appeared the correct AR.

Latest DVD2SVCD, using included D2SRoba & CCE 2.5. Std. def 4:3 TV.

EDIT 3: Aha! I can fix the problem by fiddling with the LetterBox, Pan&Scan, Widescreen control on my DVD player.

I continue to wonder why the original DVD or a DVD split (not encoded) with DVD Shrink behaves one way and a DVD encoded with DVD2DVD behaves another way.

[The Geek]

You can't encode in 2.35:1.

Movies with 2.35:1 are still encoded as 16:9, with borders to fill up the space above and below the actual movie.

The Geek

[richarddd]

Why can't the encode be the same as the original?

In any event, why would this cause the encoded version to look different than the original?

[The Geek]

Why can't the encode be the same as the original?

Because for TV, there is only 4:3 and 16:9, so DVD has to use one of both. It was defined that way, and that is the way it is.

If it's different, the result will be something else.

The Geek

[richarddd]

I don't understand your answer. Perhaps my question was imprecise. I'm not asking why the DVD would look different than the original movie. I'm asking why the encoded DVD would look different than the original DVD when both are played on a TV?

[jsoto]

using the third AR entry on drop-down list, "Anamorphic (no borders, encoded as 16:9)" This should be enough to guarantee the same DAR than the original. Are you sure you have selected this option?.
In any case, we need your logfile to help you. :logfile:

jsoto

[richarddd]

I am sure, but alas don't have log files anymore. I can get the encoded version to play the same as the original by fiddling with DVD controls. Next time the issue comes up, I'll retain the log file and post it.

thanks

[r6d2]

Originally posted by richarddd
I don't understand your answer. Perhaps my question was imprecise.I still don't understand you new rephrasing, but please read again The Geek's post. AFAIK there no such a thing as 2.35 DVDs, only 4:3 and 16:9. And by setting the AR on DVD2SVCD as above the output will be like the original.

[jsoto]

Hey r6d2
Glad to see the graphite mod back!.

jsoto

[richarddd]

Originally posted by r6d2
I still don't understand you new rephrasing, but please read again The Geek's post. AFAIK there no such a thing as 2.35 DVDs, only 4:3 and 16:9. And by setting the AR on DVD2SVCD as above the output will be like the original.

The problem is that the resulting DVD was not playing like the original when played on my DVD player. The encoded DVD appeared to have a different AR than the original DVD. This should not happen. Perhaps I accidentally set the AR wrong in DVD2SCVD, but then I don't understand how I could make the movie look right by changing the settings on my DVD player.

I realize there is no such thing as a 2.35 DVD. However, there are DVD's that look as if they are 2.35.

As I said, I can make everything ok by resetting my DVD player, so I'll chalk this up to random flucutations in the force.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by richarddd
The problem is that the resulting DVD was not playing like the original when played on my DVD player.I don't know about that. I only know that DVD2SVCD will create an output just like the original. Perhaps there's a problem with your player, not being able to interpret those flags correctly, or perhaps the wrong flags were set on DVD2SVCD. As said by jsoto, a log file would be useful to help us nail the problem.
However, there are DVD's that look as if they are 2.35.Really? How come? Can you give me an example? I've never seen one of those.


PS: Cheers, jsoto, glad to see you too!

[richarddd]

quote:
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However, there are DVD's that look as if they are 2.35.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really? How come? Can you give me an example? I've never seen one of those.


Ben Hur is 2.76:1 (I'd thought it was 2.35:1) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000056BP4/102-1584646-8625739?v=glance&s=dvd&vi=tech-info. You take a 2.76:1 movie and essentially letterbox it - add black bars on top and bottom to fill out a 16:9 frame.

My Fair Lady appears as 2.2 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/630522577X/102-1584646-8625739?v=glance&s=dvd&vi=tech-info

[jsoto]

add black bars on top and bottom to fill out a 16:9 frame. That's what we are saying. The DVD is 16:9. (You can letterbox inside what you want, but the MPEG-2 video is a 16:9 DAR)

BTW, 2,76:1 seems a typo... I've seen 2,35:1; 2,2:1; 2,0:1; etc, but never 2,76:1.

jsoto

[SeeMoreDigital]

richarddd,

As others have tried to inform you. Your Mpeg2/DVD 2.35:1 source actually includes mattes "hard coded" above and below the image! In effect the 2.35:1 anamorphic image you are seeing is "laid over" 720x480/576 black frame.

If you are confused, try thinking of the mattes as being part of the image. And although they are black... they could in reality be any colour!


Cheers

[manolito]

richarddd,

I think I have an explanation why your encoded DVD has a diffeent AR on your TV than the original DVD. My Cyberhome CH-DVD 402 (MediaTek chipset) behaves exactly the same way if I set the output of the player to "4:3 PS" instead of "4:3 LB". The 4:3 Pan and Scan setting is intended to resize a 2.35:1 DVD so it would look like a 1.85:1 DVD, but for some reason this setting has no effect for the vast majority of commercial DVDs. Maybe it's some kind of user prohibition thing.

But for an encoded DVD backup this setting has the intended effect, so the sides would be cut off and the black borders are much smaller. So the solution to your problem would be to set the output of your standalone to "4:3 LB" (letterboxed). If you need the Pan and Scan effect, chances are that your TV has a zoom function which you can use.

Cheers
manolito

[richarddd]

That's what we are saying. The DVD is 16:9. (You can letterbox inside what you want, but the MPEG-2 video is a 16:9 DAR)

This is absolutely clear and I fear I was sloppy in my OP. The DVD is 16:9. Ben Hur, for example, is 16:9 with internal letterboxing making the movie appear to be 2.35:1.

What isn't clear is the settings that resulted in the DVDs playing the way they played on my player and why the encoded DVD appeared different than original DVD. I no longer have the log files, which may well be necessary to answer the question. It seems clear that "Anamorphic (no borders, encoded as 16:9)" should work.

EDIT:
@Manolito. That seems consistent with my experience and explains my results. Glad I'm not the only one with :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by richarddd
... That seems consistent with my experience and explains my results. Glad I'm not the only one with :) Provided both of you generate your encodes "without" cropping away the mattes and use the correct DAR signalling (as dictated by the sources image pixel area), you should not have any problems!

For instance, do both of you know what a 2.35:1 source image really looks like in a 4:3 and 16:9 anamorphic frame, without DAR correction?


Cheers

[jsoto]

http://dvd.sourceforge.net/dvdinfo/ifo.html#vidatt
Not sure, but probably due bit 1: Automatic Pan Scan.

@manolito, richarddd
Could you check this byte in the original DVD and in the encoded DVD. Just open your VTS_XX_0.IFO (XX is where main movie is included) in IFOEdit and double click on TitleSet video attributes.


jsoto

[richarddd]

Ben Hur: automatic pan & scan is checked for the encoded DVD, but not the original DVD. Everything else shown by IFOEdit for TitleSet video attributes is the same.

[jsoto]

Well, I was wondering about the exact meaning of these IFO bits and now I know it. You never stop learning here...
jsoto

[richarddd]

Glad to help the learning process :D

Shouldn't DVD2SVCD set the P&S bit the same as the original?

[jsoto]

Originally posted by richarddd
Shouldn't DVD2SVCD set the P&S bit the same as the original? [/B]
IMHO, No.

In any case, I believe dvdauthor does not allow you to select this, so D2S cannot do it. May be scenarist...

jsoto

[richarddd]

Originally posted by jsoto
IMHO, No.
Why not?

[jsoto]

DVD2SVCD is doing a "new" (simple, but new) authoring. You can ask for this setting to be user configurable, but, IMHO, it is a new authoring, so this is a new option.

jsoto

[richarddd]

I had thought the idea was to replicate the original DVD main movie, to the extent possible. If so, it would seem we should replicate the AR settings.

If the tools used don't allow settng the appropriate bit, then I could understand not setting it, but otherwise, why not come as close as possible to the original?