new divx/xvid streaming plug-in [Archive]

View Full Version : new divx/xvid streaming plug-in

hyperplug

9th December 2004, 19:46

I had mentioned here ages ago about pluggle, a lil plugin able to stream divx/xvid/3ivx etc.

Just wanted to mention for those who are interested that it has become StreamPlug, and that the new version comes with many more features. It's still small (only 200k) but supports subtitles,has improved buffering, more rendering options, a new skin, and a few other things.

It's compatible with IE and Firefox/Netscape/Mozilla on windows only for now.ns-install here (http://www.streamplug.com/StreamPlug/ns-installation)

There are movies to try it (all for free, no registration, no spyware)

The homepage is here (http://www.streamplug.com)

For those who would like to use it to stream movies off their websites (or music for that matter) the manual is here. (http://www.streamplug.info)

Thx for feedback :)

The Master

15th December 2004, 07:53

I like your plug-in.. (I'm assuming your the author)

Initial observations.. little buggy with IE just weirds out IE like some ActiveX controls can do.. even Windows Update can, written in JAVA? (installer looks like Java)

It took me forever to get it to play a movie.. and the only one I could get it to play was .OGM files..? (going to do a real web server based stream test)

I'd say my problem would be the part where it plays DIVX or XVID.. (I can tell from your examples that it probably does but I seem to have problems in this area) is there something special required?

I've tested about several different movies.. (none of them my encodes but they all fail to run.. the loader bar runs and that's it) The reason may of course be this..

StreamPlug is compatible with all of the mpeg-4 family of codecs provided proprietary options are turned off during encoding for some of them.

Maybe you can help with the scripting.. (though this scripting seems to work fine with a ogm file)

<head>
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://www.streamplug.com/StreamPlug/html/StreamPlug.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://www.streamplug.com/StreamPlug/html/StreamPlug-Pl.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://www.streamplug.com/StreamPlug/html/StreamPlug-Look.js">
</script>
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://www.streamplug.com/StreamPlug/html/StreamPlug-Cmd.js">
</script>
</head>

<body>
<a href="#"
onclick=StreamPlugPlayUrl("http://10.0.0.2/movie.avi")>Title1</a>
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

</SCRIPT>
</body>

Overall this is exciting.. I was always shocked to here that MPEG4/Divx/XVID was not a stream-able format and no one was interested?

I have a streaming project I want to do.. and I was just having a look around when I noticed some work had finally been done (I know you can stream MPEG4/quicktime? with apples darwin server but that idea sucks)

It could be a mis-representation but every OGM file I've ever seen has looked incredibly ugly.. I want Divx/XVID part to work..

hyperplug

15th December 2004, 12:48

Hi,

Thx for the feedback, that's much appreciated.

It could be a mis-representation but every OGM file I've ever seen has looked incredibly ugly.. I want Divx/XVID part to work..
--> You must have been pretty unlucky. The OGM extension is a container just like AVI is a container; that is you can have anything inside your ogm file for the video stream (and i recommend you to use xvid, which yields much better results in 99% of the cases). What you need to do though is to have the sound stream of your film converted to ogg vorbis and both that ogg file and your avi file muxed as an ogm. Virtualdubmod is a pretty nice tool to do that. There are many tools to convert the sound of your movie to ogg vorbis.
Your divx/xvid will not be altered in any way because you put it in an ogm. The quality will be exactly the same. The only option you have to turn off when using divx/xvid is "packet bitstream", which StreamPlug does not support. The rest is just fine.
Note : remember to make the average bitrate for your whole file less than your audience expected average connection (e.g if you target people on 512kbps your movie must have a bitrate of less than that).

Else your scripting is just right, no worries there. The only reason why you did not get the film to stream is because it is an avi, and again, an ogm file isn't ugly per nature, as you can put what you want in it (the movies you can see on www.cedelia.com are all xvid movies, apart from the trailer in the showroom)

Initial observations.. little buggy with IE just weirds out IE like some ActiveX controls can do.. even Windows Update can, written in JAVA? (installer looks like Java)
A new version is out since this morning. When you go to a movie site and launch streamplug, a button will appear saying update, simply click it, the update is very quick. A few problems have been fixed but i'd be curious to know if this version has fixed the lil bugs you observed.

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions !

:)

The Master

18th December 2004, 02:49

Any chance you could stream quicktime (I'm sure this is not a option) but a lot of today's digital camera's can shoot quicktime movies this is of course means more people will want to see them and there looking like a dominant factor in the video market..

Here's another suggestion rather then tell you the name of the plug-in on a right click.. maybe give options like pause, zoom etc.

While I haven't fully test this part yet.. you do have the ability to skip via a bar to different sections right..? (or what's the code to keep the player there so I can try the skip forward part)

hyperplug

18th December 2004, 03:01

Any chance you could stream quicktime (I'm sure this is not a option) but a lot of today's digital camera's can shoot quicktime movies this is of course means more people will want to see them and there looking like a dominant factor in the video market..

I think i'll have to simply answer no to this one. :)

Here's another suggestion rather then tell you the name of the plug-in on a right click.. maybe give options like pause, zoom etc

Yep, that is in the list of things to do. Note though that besides the player skin, you can have each button assigned to anything you want, an image, a flash button, a simple link.

While I haven't fully test this part yet.. you do have the ability to skip via a bar to different sections right..? (or what's the code to keep the player there so I can try the skip forward part)
If you mean seek, you can seek by clicking in the time bar. The "Next" button (or "Skip Forward") is meant to be used when you have a playlist loaded. Say for instance you have :

<body>
<a href="#" onclick=StreamPlugAddPlaylist(http://www.yoursite.com/yourplaylist.pls)>Show Playlist Box </a>
</body>

and the playlist you load there goes :

File1=http://www.yourwebsite.com/file.ogg
Title1= File Title
Length1=-1
File2=http://www.yourwebsite.com/file2.ogg
Title2= File Title
Length2=-1
File3=http://www.yourwebsite.com/file3.ogg
Title3= File Title
Length2=-1
NumberOfEntries=3
Version=2

Then your user would change songs on clicking next/back.

Hope that helps & Thx for the suggestions :)

I suppose you got your clip to stream right? :)

Sharktooth

21st December 2004, 19:11

Just a question. Why OGM and not MKV?
OGM has a big overhead that can partially affect the streaming, it is no longer developed and directshow filters are unstable and outdated.

hyperplug

21st December 2004, 19:59

OGM has a big overhead that can partially affect the streaming, it is no longer developed and directshow filters are unstable and outdated.

- directshow isn't used at all by streamplug.

- Mkv did not give us as much possibilities as ogm. In all the tests we did recently, when we gained 3 megs on a 700 megs movie with mkv we could gain a lot more with ogm using vorbis for the sound. Altogether the gain is much more significant with vorbis and ogm.
Now this is only recent. The fact is our plugin existed and streamed OGM before MKV even existed. We simply almost never did any communication on it, but it used to be called Pluggle and was out in its beta version two years ago nearly.
We did consider MKV recently but then as i just explained, no significant gain. The only thing MKV would give us is the support of wmv and real and we will stick to xvid/divx for a long time.

stephanV

21st December 2004, 20:59

Originally posted by hyperplug
- directshow isn't used at all by streamplug.

- Mkv did not give us as much possibilities as ogm. In all the tests we did recently, when we gained 3 megs on a 700 megs movie with mkv we could gain a lot more with ogm using vorbis for the sound. Altogether the gain is much more significant with vorbis and ogm.
Now this is only recent. The fact is our plugin existed and streamed OGM before MKV even existed. We simply almost never did any communication on it, but it used to be called Pluggle and was out in its beta version two years ago nearly.
We did consider MKV recently but then as i just explained, no significant gain. The only thing MKV would give us is the support of wmv and real and we will stick to xvid/divx for a long time.
MKV does support Vorbis though... in fact there is nothing OGM can do that MKV cannot do. You can still use VirtualDubMod for MKV if you want.

darth rosenberg

21st December 2004, 21:05

Is there an OGM propaganda page saying MKV couldn't support Vorbis? Where else should such nonsense come from :scared:

CruNcher

21st December 2004, 21:20

Mkv did not give us as much possibilities as ogm. In all the tests we did recently

Your tests must be incorrect then, btw what for a parser and decoding engine do you use for you plugin ffmpeg/libavcodec ?

jcsston

21st December 2004, 21:20

:eek: Less possibilities than ogm?
Considering the largest task for an app to support playing is Matroska is supporting all the various formats supported, that is a strange statement...

hyperplug

22nd December 2004, 00:29

You have to remember this is a streaming plug-in and was designed for that specific application.

Hence the fact that we were looking for specific features, plus again, ogm was fully functional when we started, which is quite some time ago provided with started by a 3D plugin with audio/video streaming integrated 3 years ago. (It enables you to go through virtual rooms and watch divx stuff.)

I don't think the point here should be to discuss which container does this or that but how they can be integrated within a streaming application. For now, OGM does all we need and i think if we could discuss streamplug instead of matroska we could go into the details of the player, streaming wise. I can't say we are seriously thinking of making streamplug compatible with matroska at the moment but that is always an idea and could change.
Now the plug-in does have some very nice features : it's very small, installation is quick and quality is there. It needs no specific application server wise and the bandwidth is cheap. You can get very good results quality-wise even for low-bandwidth connections (using xvid and ogg). I think that instead of talking about the containers, it would be more constructive to compare SP to other streaming solutions. The container discussion, as interesting as it is, is only secondary here.

Let's talk about the streaming part :)

Longinus

24th December 2004, 22:31

I can't get it to work... neither in IE or Firefox..
In Internet Explorer it just freezes the browser window, showing a blank screen...

In firefox, I got that install screen the first time, but then I get the same problem. It's stop responding, and I have to end the program by force.

hyperplug

24th December 2004, 23:07

can you please give your config specs?

- OS

- Graphic Card + Driver version

- DirectX version

- Processor

That would help a lot :)

thx in advance

PS: you can try to update your drivers and/or directX, it usually fixes any prob. I'd still really like to know what your OS etc is if your probs get fixed that way.
*edit* : thx for feedback, reporting bugs is vital. Pls if anyone had probs installing SP say it!

yodoso

25th December 2004, 10:38

love the plug-in, but I thing it would be even better if someone could integrate it into mp classic. Then no special scripting would be needed, and all websites would automatically be supported

again, great work

sysKin

26th December 2004, 13:14

OK I have a very serious question - why is this not GPL-ed? I just downloaded the plugin (netscape version) and I like it, but it's a drivative works from xvid (1.0.2) so it MUST be under GPL. And the stuff I agreed to was not GPL.
Also, I see no sourcecode on your website.

What's the deal?

Radek

hyperplug

26th December 2004, 16:46

This is indeed a serious question and i'll try to answer as thoroughly as i can.

As we understand it, the GPL seems to still only apply to people who are redistributing the GPL'ed package - if you don't redistribute it by selling, posting for download, or whatever, you are free do modify, use and license patents for XviD as you please.
We do not in any case redistribute the XviD binaries/sources. We do not provide any encoder. Nothing has been modified by us and redistributed (or simply altered). Encoding in XviD for use in StreamPlug is done with the official XviD package. Since we do not redistribute altered sources for XviD, there is no way whatsoever that we could possibly "lock" XviD under some proprietary license (which in any case isn't our goal). There is no interference between the two softwares. StreamPlug is simply compatible with XviD. A patent concerning StreamPlug would exclusively be about its buffering method for the Mpeg-4 format and in no case include anything about XviD.

However, the team at Cedelia isn't happy at the moment with StreamPlug's license, which we see as a middle term in the uncertainties we still have concerning legalities. We are currently analysing with our legal advisors the consequences for StreamPlug if it is made GPL . If i can't promise yet that it is the direction StreamPlug will take, i can say that it is however likely.
We have been very uncertain to say the least about the license to give StreamPlug. Our goal is NOT to infringe on anyone's rights here, and we're open to discussion if people at XviD feel there is a problem. I can be contacted through private message here and email addresses are on www.cedelia.com .

Hope that answers your question

sysKin

27th December 2004, 03:38

Originally posted by hyperplug
This is indeed a serious question and i'll try to answer as thoroughly as i can.

As we understand it, the GPL seems to still only apply to people who are redistributing the GPL'ed package - if you don't redistribute it by selling, posting for download, or whatever, you are free do modify, use and license patents for XviD as you please.
Correct.
We do not in any case redistribute the XviD binaries/sources.
OK, incorrect. As I said, I downloaded the netscape version of your plugin. It made me agree to a "Cedelia Sarl End User License Agreement". Fine so far. Now I went to firefox/plugins/NSStreamPlug.dll and opened it with a text editor. It contains clearly (and I mean clearly) a static build of xvid version 1.0.2, the decoding part. It even has some debug strings, since you apparently compiled with DPRINTF() defined. Heh, it even has debug strings for Chroma Optimizer, funny thing your linker didn't strip it.

I meant this decoding part, not encoder. You are correct that encoder was not included under your license.

Radek

Leak

27th December 2004, 08:33

Originally posted by sysKin
As I said, I downloaded the netscape version of your plugin. It made me agree to a "Cedelia Sarl End User License Agreement".

It didn't for me - maybe because I just downloaded the XPI with wget and extracted it's contents with WinRAR... :D

Fine so far. Now I went to firefox/plugins/NSStreamPlug.dll and opened it with a text editor. It contains clearly (and I mean clearly) a static build of xvid version 1.0.2, the decoding part. It even has some debug strings, since you apparently compiled with DPRINTF() defined. Heh, it even has debug strings for Chroma Optimizer, funny thing your linker didn't strip it.

It's even worse than that - with BIEW I've found the following text in the DLL:

"This software is derived from the GNU GPL XviD codec (devel).
Your software distributor has to give access to its source code."

I mean it really can't get any more blatant than this... :eek:

hyperplug

27th December 2004, 09:53

I have been talking with Syskin in order to fix this issue : it was never our goal to infringe in any way.

I hope to be able to come back here soon with a solution to this (there are a few it appears, we just need to evaluate which one is the best). Announcements will be posted on cedelia.com as soon as possible.

This whole issue basically originates from what seems to be a wrong interpretation on our side of the "mere aggregation" thing in GPL and the "combining" of two modules.

You can be sure though that cedelia will do whatever is necessary to correct all this and that we'll take quick action.

Thx.

Longinus

28th December 2004, 06:25

Originally posted by hyperplug
[B]can you please give your config specs?

- OS
Windows XP SP2

- Graphic Card + Driver version
Geforce FX 5700 (latest driver)

- DirectX version
9c

- Processor
P4 (hyperthreading on... sometimes gives problems in some progs)

My computer is up to date I think... what else could it be?

Longinus

6th January 2005, 06:24

Uninstalling Firefox (and deleting the freaking application data folder) fixed the problem.