[Update] Nero 6.6.0.6 / Nero Recode 2.2.6.9 released (includes MPEG-4 AVC/H.264)

[whood]

new nero is finally out by ftp!

[chilledoutuk]

more importantly there seems to be a new version of vision express that was modified today am downloading to check it out.

[whood]

that is exactly what i want to say but i write my messsage too fast :)
they release an update for all the nero software!

[chilledoutuk]

its here every one avc just confirmed

ftp://ftp4.us.nero.com/NVE30114.exe

[acidsex]

woot, woot. My source was correct.

Download is slow as heck but Im sure its worth the wait.

[chilledoutuk]

am encoding right now on both my machines gona take a while though this is one complex codec.

all we need is ms to release 64 bit windows and i think i may have to upgrade to a amd64.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Cool... I'm downloading it now!


Cheers

[IgorC]

Yeap , i won´t sleep this night

[chilledoutuk]

i just tested the codec without all the funk features like cabac and the qulaity is still very good and yet works in the vlc player sweetly gona test more extensively but so far i am very impressed one note to those who may want to use the lanzos filter go into the configuration dialogue and you can force it to be used all the time.

im gona test this baseline encode on the xbox

[bond]

whood, i changed the thread title to one that better describes the content, so that everyone realises that neros avc codec is finally here :)

[netchris]

Hm... I might be doing something wrong but I cant find an option to open simple mpeg(and other video format) files in recode. I has only options for DVD files. Can somebody enlighten me in this?

[acidsex]

I agree. It seems to be missing or something.

I imported my DVD files and then go to the Nero Digital Settings and after selecting Expert mode, and then go to the Advanced tab, H.263 Quantization is greyed out. No options for Base or Main either.

Any idea?

[netchris]

I hope its not missing... its just hidden in a way. :mad:
Or else nero is useless for me atm :(


EDIT: An unistall and restart corrected the problem.

[acidsex]

One thing I have noticed is that I only one profile (standard) available for selection but this has always been that way for me. Reading through the Recode CHM file, it shows Maximum Profiles among others. How do I get these?

Edit: Duh. I figured it out. My bad.

[acidsex]

Ok, how do I select baseline or main? Thats the only thing I cant figure out.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by netchris
Hm... I might be doing something wrong but I cant find an option to open simple mpeg(and other video format) files in recode. I has only options for DVD files. Can somebody enlighten me in this? It's still there. I'm generating an encode from an Mpeg2 (.m2v) source now.


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have to give praise where praise is due, this is truly awesome work. Many thanks to everybody at Ateme.

Even the audio filter works now in other direct-show media players. All my Mpeg4+AAC in MP4 encodes played flawlessly in MPC.

More testing tomorrow but I go to bed tonight a happy chappie....


Many thanks

[acidsex]

Weird. We are supposed to be able to export Nero Digital from within Vision Express but I dont get that option in the drop down boxes. Can someone else check and see if they have the option to export in Nero Digital?

[Bogalvator]

I have the Nero OEM package (the one which includes Nero Vision Express & Recode etc) - does this update give me the H.264 capability? Because if it does, I can't work out how to use it........

Could someone post a screenshot of where I select the avc option from?

[chilledoutuk]

you have to select one of the avc profiles to encode with avc

[acidsex]

I have doen some awesome tests with some samples from the new Sony HDV camera is combined, both products are outstanding.

[plonk420]

:)

i'm speechless. joygasm (even if it's not as tweakable as i'd like it to be) to say the least ^_^

[bond]

can someone plz post some screenshot of the interface/choosable options aso? thanks :)

Originally posted by acidsex
I imported my DVD files and then go to the Nero Digital Settings and after selecting Expert mode, and then go to the Advanced tab, H.263 Quantization is greyed out. No options for Base or Main eitherthere is no h.263 quantization in avc afaik

[slavickas]

Originally posted by bond
can someone plz post some screenshot of the interface/choosable options aso? thanks :)


http://www.stud.ktu.lt/~vitslav/belekas/recode/

seems max 4bframes and 8 ref frames (maximum def - avc)

[acidsex]

Originally posted by bond
can someone plz post some screenshot of the interface/choosable options aso? thanks :)

there is no h.263 quantization in avc afaik

Bond, it was because I was still using the Standard profile (not the standard AVC.)

But all is right as rain now.

Cheers Mate!

[bond]

Originally posted by slavickas
http://www.stud.ktu.lt/~vitslav/belekas/recode/thx :)

bobololo, may i ask how the macroblock partitions option works?

[tangent1138]

can someone please explain the significance of MPEG-4 AVC/H.264? i'm sorry, i'm new to this. i've used recode 2 for a while, didn't know it was missing something...

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by tangent1138
can someone please explain the significance of MPEG-4 AVC/H.264? i'm sorry, i'm new to this. i've used recode 2 for a while, didn't know it was missing something...
Generally speaking, all current mpeg-4 codecs are mpeg-4 asp (advanced simple profile / mpeg-4 part 2). Xvid is. Divx is. Recode used to be, but now recode can do mpeg-4 avc (advanced video coding / mpeg-4 part 10). This is the newest (and probably best) video codec that there is available. :D

[CruNcher]

Makroblock Partition (part) is rather useless at least it was in the Cli Encoder you have to select Maximum Definition Profile to get to the goddies and then also Expert Settings.

@Latexxx
you should also mention that it's one of the chosen Standards for HD-DVD together with VC-1 :P

[FXsan]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
its here every one avc just confirmed

ftp://ftp4.us.nero.com/NVE30114.exe

If you experience slow download, you should go through http://www.nero.com/fr/update-nero.php?pak=2 to choose your server, as several are available (even http)

[easyfab]

Many thanks to ahead and ateme :)

It's realy amazing, my test mpeg4 vs avc on a hdtv source give me for a mpeg4 2000 kb/s bitrate the same avc result with only 1500 kb/s
(mpeg4 at 1500kb/s is ugly)

[Soulhunter]

Finally... http://img95.exs.cx/img95/6137/c6-hyper.gif


Bye

[Slave01]

Sorry for dumb question, but can we use nero digital h264 encoder in virtualdub?

Greetings

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Slave01

Sorry for dumb question, but can we use nero digital h264 encoder in virtualdub?

Nope, it wont work via vfw... ;)


Bye

[Slave01]

But how does recode work? Can't i import avs files? It seems that it wants only dvd disc and not raw vob files. Is it true?

Thanks

[Selur]

did anyone get it working in Graphedit?
gives me a
"The filter could not be created. Resource used by this filter may already be in use. Class nor registered (return code: 0x80040154)"
error,...

Cu Selur

[chilledoutuk]

@slave nero added avs support to recode some time ago and i use it a lot when i have interlaced video.

ok i think we should start discusing which settings and features everyone is using too good effect.

First i disable deblocking the type of stuff i encode and the bitrate make it unessesary.

one thing i have discovered is that if you disable bidirectional prediction the encoded files will play back ok with the vlc player.

I am going to be doing more testing of this codec now and will report anything wlse i find out.

[CruNcher]

@chilledoutuk
the problem is ffmpeg is still not compatible with H.264 B-frames this means we have a interoperability problem now i hoped it would be finalized by now but it's still not here :( maybe akupenguin can tell us how far he got with this or if some patch was commited allready, i hope so.

[whood]

Originally posted by bond
whood, i changed the thread title to one that better describes the content, so that everyone realises that neros avc codec is finally here :)

Thx a lot...
:)

[chilledoutuk]

I just tested xbmc and it cant play any of my encodes it seems that mplayer must not be able to play avc .mp4's at all (well at least the version used in latest XBMC).

[Soulhunter]

Hmm, for some reason I get a error (http://img86.exs.cx/img86/6710/23-Error.png) while importing a avs file... :confused:

If I add "ConvertToRGB32" to the script, recode simply disappears !?!


Bye

[nicco]

Sorry, I'm a newbie with nero, and I don't understand what version I should have to encode with it.
I have NERO ULTRA 6.6.0.1 but I can't find any recode:(
What version do I need?
THX:)

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by nicco

I have NERO ULTRA 6.6.0.1 but I can't find any recode...


You need Nero Vision Express (ftp://ftp4.us.nero.com/NVE30114.exe) !!!


Bye

[nicco]

is Nero recode 6.6 the same? (I think vision and recode are included)

[LostMP4]

Originally posted by acidsex
Weird. We are supposed to be able to export Nero Digital from within Vision Express but I dont get that option in the drop down boxes. Can someone else check and see if they have the option to export in Nero Digital?

There isn't any (why?)

I can't find a way to recode a "file", DVD only (why?)

I can recode a DVD to a DVD only!!! (what?!?)

I can't download italian language packs (and in the previuos Nero Vision language pack only a little part of software was localizated) (why?)

PS: I've tested only the "update" download

:( :( :(:scared: :scared: :scared: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by nicco
is Nero recode 6.6 the same? (I think vision and recode are included)
Vision express is a separate download.

[LostMP4]

Originally posted by nicco
Sorry, I'm a newbie with nero, and I don't understand what version I should have to encode with it.
I have NERO ULTRA 6.6.0.1 but I can't find any recode:(
What version do I need?
THX:)

If you have the CD you may have to install the Nero Vision Pack and if you bought the serial you must download the software (not included in the Nero Burnig Rom pack)

[slavickas]

Originally posted by nicco
is Nero recode 6.6 the same? (I think vision and recode are included)
there is no recode 6.6, there is nero reloaded aka 6.6 (6.6.0.3 as of yesterday to be precise), and there is NVE3 which include nero recode ftp://ftp4.us.nero.com/NVE30114.exe.

LostMP4: maybe You have some sort of OEM, You can try remove current SN and see if demo version works

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by LostMP4

I can't find a way to recode a "file", DVD only (why?)


Have you selected this (http://img123.exs.cx/img123/7194/4b-01.png) mode ???


Bye

[Sharktooth]

I'm impressed. Need to "recode" all my DVDs...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
I'm impressed. Need to "recode" all my DVDs... I'm currently in the process of "backing up" Terminator 3 (105min) to an 800MB file!

I'm using the slowest/highest quality 2pass AVC settings and I've just broken thru' 13hour 13min barrier... with another 247 mins to go :D

I reckon It's still faster than WMV9's slowest/highest quality 2pass setting....


Cheers

[LRDX]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Have you selected this (http://img123.exs.cx/img123/7194/4b-01.png) mode ???


Bye

I've got no such mode... Only theese (http://ural2.hszk.bme.hu/~dr420/recode.jpg). :mad::confused:

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by LRDX
I've got no such mode... Only theese (http://ural2.hszk.bme.hu/~dr420/recode.jpg). :mad::confused:
Uninstall NVE and reinstall it.

[nicco]

is Nero recode 6.6 the same? (I think vision and recode are included)

Ok, sorry I meant
"is nero reloaded 6.6 the same?"

but you arleady told me:)

[mezzanine]

I just encoded a small clip with 1500 kbits/sec, the quality is amazing!

[Sharktooth]

Blah... i can no longer encode...
every source i try it says "Burning process failed"...
Logfile:


Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: Custom (358400)

14:56:00 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

14:56:00 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 133
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: C:\Documents and Settings\Ebola\Desktop (2217295872 bytes free)
NeroDigital profile: Maximum Definition - AVC
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

14:56:06 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 158
NeroDigital: init

14:56:06 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 269
NeroDigital: burning 3805 sectors (3805 required)

14:56:06 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 343
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

14:56:06 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 697
NeroDigital: encode sp2tr

Source:
Size (720,384)
Display Aspect Ratio (720,384)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (0, 0, 0, 0)
Resizing enabled (560,304)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 501400 bps

14:56:06 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 722
Nth-pass file = C:\DOCUME~1\Ebola\IMPOST~1\Temp\\sp2tra03640.bin

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Il tipo di supporto di questo file non è riconosciuto.(0x80040240)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Impossibile caricare il filtro di origine per il file.(0x80040241)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\../directshow/DSError.h, line:120, error:Interfaccia non registrata. (0x80040154)
14:56:07 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit
It cant recognize the "support" and it cant load the DS filter... weird.
Help?

[vio_man]

Originally posted by LRDX
I've got no such mode... Only theese (http://ural2.hszk.bme.hu/~dr420/recode.jpg). :mad::confused:

You have to enter a NeroDigital serial to enable NeroDigital features.

[netchris]

First tests and I am amazed. Easily the best codec out there (for my needs at least).
At low bitrates using adaptive deblocking gives a more detailed picture at the cost of some blocks here and there.
Also I got a video with a lot of snow and vibrant blue-red colors at times, where nero gives a very blocky image. I thought blocks where because of bframes or psychovisual options but disabling them didnt help.

Sorry for the noob question, how can I take some pictures of frames of the videos produced? Vdub cant open the videos, and as always prtscrean doesnt work.

[chilledoutuk]

you can just disable hardware acceleration on your grphics card then you ahould be able to take screen grabs using print screen.

[digidragon]

Is it possible without Nero Recode installed to view an AVC encoding. If so, do you need a codec, and where do you get it from?

[chilledoutuk]

You can use VLC media player to play these avc files as long as bidirectional and weighted prediction arnt used.

Im not sure if the nero media player needs a license if it doesent then you could use that.

[chilledoutuk]

one thing that is a little anoying is not being able to set whether or not qpel or halfpel is used. Some people dont like the effect qpel has it would have been nice to be able to set this somewhere.

[acidsex]

I am beside myself. This codec is amazing. I wish encoding time was faster but man, the quality is worth the time. is it me or do I get the better quality and file size with H.264 than I would have using ASP?

Im starting to think that the Nero Suite I purchased last year was probably the smartest purchase I have ever made.

[digidragon]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
You can use VLC media player to play these avc files as long as bidirectional and weighted prediction arnt used.
I've no idea if they're used or not - I can't find any options for that. I encoded using the AVC Maximun Definition profile, and VLC just crashes as soon as it loads the file.

[slavickas]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
one thing that is a little anoying is not being able to set whether or not qpel or halfpel is used. Some people dont like the effect qpel has it would have been nice to be able to set this somewhere.
iirc qpel in h264 is allways on, probably encoder could do just hpel motion search, but that way bits are wasted

Originally posted by digidragon
I've no idea if they're used or not - I can't find any options for that. I encoded using the AVC Maximun Definition profile, and VLC just crashes as soon as it loads the file.

which ver? 0.8.1 can't normally decode with b frames but won't crash

[superdump]

Originally posted by acidsex
I wish encoding time was faster but man, the quality is worth the time.

bobololo and testers agreed that multiref didn't provide much of an improvement in quality, as such due to the hugely increased encoding time when using more references we seemed to reach a consensus that 1 reference frame was usually fine. Ahead however wanted to get the best video quality so they went for multiref = 5. Reduce this to 1 and you should see a fair increase in speed. Also, if you're encoding longer clips the first pass will be a lot faster because of a slightly different method used for the analysis pass.

I'm just testing it out on some 1920x1080@29.97fps video to see how it fairs. :)

[digidragon]

Originally posted by slavickas
which ver? 0.8.1 can't normally decode with b frames but won't crash
0.7.2... but I just updated to 0.8.1. It didn't crash, but it's virtually unwatchable.

So is there any way to watch an AVC encoding without having Recode installed...?

[chilledoutuk]

sometimes i feel like im talking to myself on here.........

@digidragon you have to deselect the bidirectional and weighted prediction features for the video to playback ok in the latest vlc.

[PlazzTT]

Does anyone have some high-resolution encoded samples of us?

This codec is great, and plays back great for me in Media Player Classic with the Nero Decoder.

[weiqj]

I have a nero6 ULTRA EDITION CD, probably OEM version. I tried to upgrade the installation. However, the recoder always complains about missing encoder/decoder plug-ins. Any solution to this problem? Thanks!

[digidragon]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
@digidragon you have to deselect the bidirectional and weighted prediction features for the video to playback ok in the latest vlc.
You mean during encoding or during playback?

Like I said, there are very few options that I can see in Recode.

[LostMP4]

Removed serial, uninstalled, rebooted and reinstalled. It finally works.

A question for beta testers af the AVC codec: the "present" from Ahead was a Nero 6 serial (not Ultra Edition), is the same for you?

[chilledoutuk]

ok look you should see options like this

http://www.aoul98.dsl.pipex.com/avc.gif

[digidragon]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
ok look your should see options like this
I've got it now. Thanks for your patience ;)

Trying another encode now...

[weiqj]

I realized my Nero ULTRA OEM doesn't include the license for vision express. So I was gonna buy an upgrade from their website @$50. But the website was down!

[IgorC]

is GOP like a max keyframe interval? i put 360-400 instead of 300(default).
Ok. I can say only : DAS ist SEHR gut!! :)

[acidsex]

Heres a new question. Is thereanyway to control the frame rate? Reasonbeing is I do video editing tutorials that use a low frame rate (3-5 fps) and this would be awesome to use for that.

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by acidsex
Heres a new question. Is thereanyway to control the frame rate? Reasonbeing is I do video editing tutorials that use a low frame rate (3-5 fps) and this would be awesome to use for that.
I believe that it uses whatever frame rate you feed it with.

[EnergeticBence]

Looks amazing

So what's up with not able to use custom quant matrices? Or is that in the AVC spec too?

[SeeMoreDigital]

My 720x576 800MB T3 AVC encode has finished encoding. And when compared the XviD encode I generated a few weeks ago, the differences are very apparent :eek:

Okay it took a long time to generate but it was well worth the wait.

Very, very nice work indeed.


Cheers

[Manao]

No custom matrices, it's not part of AVC main profile.

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
My 720x576 800MB T3 AVC encode has finished encoding. And when compared the XviD encode I generated a few weeks ago, the differences are very apparent :eek:
Can you post some samples (still frames or short video clips if you can somehow cut it)?

[el_rico]

Hello,

I am just trying it. It is slow, but I have to admit that since I do not know exactly the meaning of the different options, I have turned everything to "on", except for psycho visual enhancements.

Could someone here bring light to the different options, the influence on the results (for example listing them from the most worth to the least one if this makes sense). I in particular do not know whatr "CABAC", "Macroblock partitions" and "Weighted prediction" are. Also, even though I know what "Deblocking" is about, I do not know if it is worth using it (for example for high bitrates).

Thanks!

[Manao]

CABAC : change the way the data is stored. It's a far better way of stocking information, and it doesn't change the visual result while reducing bitrate by 10 % ( compared to the method used if it's disabled ). Drawback : slightly more complicated to encode / decode ( meaning, slightly slower ). I'd turn it on always.

Partition : h264 base unit is the macroblock ( 16x16 pixels square ). Partition allows to cut these macroblocs in 4 8x8 or 2 16x8 or 2 8x16 blocks for the motion compensation ( meaning each block will have it's motion vectors ). More complicated, there again, but it increase quality while reducing bitrate. There again, turn it on.

Weighted prediction : when doing the motion compensation, instaed of just copying the block, you can apply to it an affine transform on its luma / chroma component ( if the block was pure white, for example, you could make it grey using a coefficient of 0.5 ). Really helpful on fading. Drawback : only supported by nero's decoder, afaik.

Bidirectionnal prediction : it's bframes. Drawback : not supported by VLC / ffmpeg afaik ( and yet, it will change ).

Deblocking : it depends on your taste. You should try. Usually, people tend to prefer a video with in loop deblocking, especially if the bitrate is low. But then some people could prefer sharpness over absence of blocks. It up to you. Whatever the choice, remember that it's strength adapts with the quality of the frame ( even if adaptive isn't checked, checking it only make it even more adaptive ), so high quality frames won't be hurt by deblocking.

Visual enhancements :

Cartoon : it amounts to chroma motion in XviD. It takes into account chroma when searching for motion vectors. It's a must when encoding manga / animated content ( for exemple, Finding Nemo ), and it's always good, even on classic movie content ( except black & white of course ). Drawback : it slows encoding.

Psycho visual enhancement : it's up to you to test and choose the one you prefer. But do remember that Ahead settings in this case were made considering 'high' setting was bringing the best quality. Have a look on the Ateme's beta threads to read users opinions about it.

Reference frame : as already stated previously on this thread, the more, the slower to encode. Theorically, it helps and improves quality and reduces bitrate. Practically, it's highly dependant of the content. I'd use it only if I don't care about encoding time.

Gop size : mximum interval between two keyframes

Max consecutive b-frames : speak for itself

Vector range : use the largest possible

[el_rico]

Thanks a lot!

[vio_man]

I'm currently encoding "Windtalkers" using the AVC Normal profile (2 pass encoding). All options at their default. The encode is taking long, so far about 9 hours. I want to achieve a good quality. Should I use a "lower" profile?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by vio_man
.... The encode is taking long, so far about 9 hours. I want to achieve a good quality. Should I use a "lower" profile? Finish generating your current encode... Then encode from the source again using different settings and compare them!

Only you can decide what's right for you!


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

Im still getting that damn error and i cant encode...
Can someone help me?!?

[davegould]

Selecting 'Recode DVDs and Videos to Nero Digital' then Import Titles, I can select all the VOBs ripped by DVDDecrypter, but Recode encodes them into multiple MP4s. Is there a way around this or do I need one big VOB?

[moonman]

Originally posted by davegould
Is there a way around this or do I need one big VOB?
You need to have the DVD structure intact to do that.
That means with the IFO abd BUP files. Save them in a Video_ts folder. And then choose that folder.
Then Nero should show you a "Main Title" choice. Highlight it and then click on import titles.

[b0b0b0b]

From my first short test, the results are really remarkable. It's totally transparent for me at bitrates where xvid & divx were unacceptably artifacted. Anyhow, just kicked off a full movie encode.

[Sagittaire]

Little sample:

XviD 500 Kbps is ~q8 encoding
XviD 1000 Kbps is ~q4 encoding

Sample 500 Kbps H264 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-H264-500.mp4)
Sample 500 Kbps VP6 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-VP6-500.avi)
Sample 500 Kbps RV10 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-RV10-500.rmvb)
Sample 500 Kbps WMV9 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-WMV9-500.avi)
Sample 500 Kbps XviD (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-XviD-500.avi)
Sample 500 Kbps DivX5 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-DivX5-500.avi)
Sample 500 Kbps DivX3 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-DivX3-500.avi)

Sample 1000 Kbps H264 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-H264-1000.mp4)
Sample 1000 Kbps VP6 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-VP6-1000.avi)
Sample 1000 Kbps RV10 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-RV10-1000.rmvb)
Sample 1000 Kbps WMV9 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-WMV9-1000.avi)
Sample 1000 Kbps XviD (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-XviD-1000.avi)
Sample 1000 Kbps DivX5 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-DivX5-1000.avi)
Sample 1000 Kbps DivX3 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-DivX3-1000.avi)


SSIM and bitrate equivalence:

H264 : 500 Kbps for reference
VP6 : 570 Kbps
RV10 : 640 Kbps
WMV9 : 680 Kbps
XviD : 720 Kbps
DivX5 : 760 Kbps
DivX3 : 890 Kbps

H264 : 1000 Kbps for reference
VP6 : 1090 Kbps
RV10 : 1120 Kbps
WMV9 : 1230 Kbps
XviD : 1180 Kbps
DivX5 : 1320 Kbps
DivX3 : 1610 Kbps

[SteMa]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
Blah... i can no longer encode...
every source i try it says "Burning process failed"...
Logfile:

(...)

It cant recognize the "support" and it cant load the DS filter... weird.
Help?

I have the same problem, have you solved it?

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\../directshow/DSError.h, line:120, error:The Class is not registered (0x80040154)
12:31:15 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit


ANYONE???

[Shuichiro]

Also did an encode on a 2h movie @ 850MB @ standard AVC Profile @ standard option and 5.1 sound. It took me 7 hours on a 1.5 centrino but the quality was amazing. I hope for good standalones for this codec. The divx stand alone Players today are often too shabby.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
Im still getting that damn error and i cant encode...
Can someone help me?!? Are you "backing-up" and burning direct to CD~R?

[SteMa]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Are you "backing-up" and burning direct to CD~R?

I have the same problem as he does, and what i'm trying to do, is to encode an mpg (mpeg2, svcd, but i have the same problems with avis) to h.264, and it says something about directshow filters, what could be the problem?

[Leo 69]

As someone has already mentioned in this thread,will there be a so to say
"decoder pack" for .mp4 files created by Recode? Can someone make it?
I guess it's somehow possible to take away some .ax filters from
Nero installation,and install them separately afterwards.
Any volunteers to make it?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by SteMa
I have the same problem as he does, and what i'm trying to do, is to encode an mpg (mpeg2, svcd, but i have the same problems with avis) to h.264, and it says something about directshow filters, what could be the problem? What happens if you back-up to your hard drive first, instead of directly to CD~R?

Do you get the same errror?

[SteMa]

I'm not directly encoding to cd-r, but to hard disk :( now i'm trying to recode a full dvd to nd, but need some plugins first

[Jorgosch]

Hi all,

I have a strange problem when encoding. I choose the High Quality AVC profile, custom settings with 2-pass, 1 reference frame, CABAC, macrobloc partitions and psycho at high.

On the 2nd pass, I can preview the video, yet the result is a 27 MB mp4-file that only contains the audio.

Source files are unprotected VOBs.

Anyone run into that before?
Thanks!

[LRDX]

Hi!

I think I foud something: The "Nero Digital AVC Video Enc" DShow filter is somehow missing from my system, most probably this is why I (and some of you) cant encode. I've got (http://ural2.hszk.bme.hu/~dr420/ND.jpg) a shot from AVICodec, he/she, who can't encode, pls check if the AVC enc DSFilter is missing on his/her system.

To solve it un-and reinstalled NVE several times, and nothing, could this be an installer bug :confused:

[Bogalvator]

Sharktooth & Stema,

Are your PC's overclocked? Because if so, turn off the overclocking and check again etc....

If that doesn't help, then I'm just as in the dark as you!

Jorgosch: You need to give more info about your source!

[MacAddict]

First test on a DVD source looks very impressive, I was absolutely stunned at the picture quality:)

One of my computers here has the same problem as LRDX, encoding always fails due to the DS filter issue. Looking for a fix at the moment...

[davegould]

Originally posted by moonman
You need to have the DVD structure intact to do that.
That means with the IFO abd BUP files. Save them in a Video_ts folder. And then choose that folder.
Then Nero should show you a "Main Title" choice. Highlight it and then click on import titles.

I have the IFO, not the BUP and Nero says the folder is empty.

Results look amazing so far though maybe the deblocking is making things a bit blurry.

Wondering how it copes with eg 12 mins of credits and if I could get better results with explicit credit settings.

[LRDX]

Hi!

I've got a "fix" for this annoying problem.

Do this:
[list=1]
Uninstall all Ahead/Nero stuff.
Start regedit, and delete every CLSID, what has a "Nero" string in its sub-things (folder?). A "bit" dangerous, so be careful, not to delete anything, not created by Nero.
Install NVE (and other Nero progs)
[/list=1]

Registry hacking is really dangerous, if you dont know what are you doing, wait Ahead to fix the installer. I am quite sure this is an installer bug..

[SteMa]

Hehh, this has solved my problem:

start nero > help > enter new serial number

and enter serial number for all the things, like multichannel plug-in, nero digital, mpeg2 dvd plugin ect ect...

[cypher_soundz]

anyone care to host / torrent this file? its so hard to get :( max users on some ftp's 2k/s on others then cuts off about 6mb :mad:
anyone found a good mirror?
Regards
cyph

EDIT: it's ok i think i got it

EDIT2: Nooo how wrong i was, stopped on 92% :mad: anyone else having these problems? i dont mind waiting ages if i get it lol:p

[temporance]

Looks interesting, a quick question: I'm want to use AviSynth to do some comparisons, how can I open a Nero .mp4 file from within AviSynth?

Cheers

[Manao]

Your only chance is DirectShowSource, but it may not work.

[lordreign]

Hey guys, quality is quite awesome so far, encoded a few music video's from vob form and they look great. One problem though, I had to use the vob's directly with recode. I was not able to use avisynth. Everytime I try to use avisynth recode just closes completely, without warning. I believe soulhunter posted something similar to this near the start of this thread, but only after he converted the colour. I would really like to use avisynth for the obvious filter reasons, over nero's stock standard stuff. I'm creating my avisynth and d2v files using all the supplied tools with gordian knot 0.32.0 along with avisynth 2.5.5. Possibly nero only likes specific colour space? dunno. Anyways, any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers, lordreign.

[Manao]

It's not a colorspace issue ( works fine here ).

Somehow, I think it may be related to a DS filter which tries to get in the way. Which one, i do not know. But for example, VSFilter / VobSub always try to load if I don't specifically disable it.

[celtic_druid]

No problems with AVISynth scripts here. I just tried one, however it didn't contain audio. Nope, tried one with audio and it didn't crash either.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by celtic_druid
No problems with AVISynth scripts here.

No problems either. Even complex scripts with loadpuginex.dll loaded for old Avisynth 2.0 compatibility work like a charm.

Cheers

Taurus

[b0b0b0b]

For folks that are having the mysterious failures, do you have a dvd or cd burner in your machine? I don't, and was having the same issue. After a number of uninstall reinstalls, I tried burning to a *.nrg (nero image) file and now it seems a lot better.

My last all night encode resulted in a 4kb output file, but after doing what I described above, last night's all night encoded ended up at around 190mb, and actually had some video in it. Granted it wasn't the whole movie, but I'm getting there, albeit very slowly.

[Soulhunter]

I found a way (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=577667#post577667) to solve my "import avs" problem !!!

Removing the Warpsharp.dll from the plugins folder did the trick... ;)


Bye

[WorBry]

Originally posted by acidsex


Download is slow as heck but Im sure its worth the wait.

Download is slow would be an understatement. Tried all evening using direct download from the link, two ftp programs and MassDownloader as a final resort. Constant aborts and the best attempt has only given me 30% of the exe file. I hope it really is worth the wait

[calinb]

I encoded a test vob and Recode 2.2 reported it as film / no deinterlace necessary. However, the encoded video is playing too fast (29.970 instead of 23.976). Because the Nero filters don't play well with others, and my arsenal of tools, that previously worked with Nero digital, don't like AVC, I've only been able to demux the 2.2 AVC mp4 video (on another machine with 3ivx), mux to avi, confirm the incorrect framerate, and change it. I can't play it or remux it to anything useful. mp4UI also reports the framerate as 29.970 but can't deal with it either. Maybe I need to update mp4UI.

Anyone else having this problem with film source or know of a solution or workaround? :confused:

Thanks

[CyberGuy]

I used VOBEdit to change the Video Attributes value form 755097652 to 755097649 which changes the Frame Rate from 29.97 to 23.976.

[calinb]

CyberGuy, Thanks for the tip! So Recode isn't correctly handling the attribute? I've never had this problem previously with this test VOB using Recode or other encoding aps, but Recode's decimate to 23.976 feature is sometimes bust.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80845&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Manao

Deblocking : it depends on your taste. You should try. Usually, people tend to prefer a video with in loop deblocking, especially if the bitrate is low. But then some people could prefer sharpness over absence of blocks. It up to you. Whatever the choice, remember that it's strength adapts with the quality of the frame ( even if adaptive isn't checked, checking it only make it even more adaptive ), so high quality frames won't be hurt by deblocking.

Dumb question...

Sharp means less deblocking, right ???


Another dumb question...

Why is the max bitrate for aac 128kbps ???


Bye

[SteMa]

I was suprised too on the max aac bitrate, I don't know how good is it because i will only do a full dvd encode tomorrow, but i hope it sounds good after a hefty 10-12 hour encoding :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes,

For 2Ch AAC-HE the max bitrate is 128Kbps. But for 6Ch AAC-HE it's now up to 225Kbps.

For 2Ch AAC-LC the max bitrate is 448Kbps. And for 6Ch AAC-LC it's also 448Kbps.

If I remember rightly, wasn't the max 2Ch AAC-HE bitrate 96Kbps?

128Kbps sounds bloody good anyway... does it not?


Cheers

[chilledoutuk]

a couple of versions ago the max 2ch he-aac bitrate was 96kbps do remember that above 128 you may as well us lc-aac.

[cypher_soundz]

so.... no mirrors ?:p
Regards
cyph

[chilledoutuk]

are you still having problems downloading?

[kurt]

jap, me too :rolleyes:

edit: what about a doom9 mirror?
edit2: in the meantime multiple mirrors via getright gave me 80kb/s :D

[Soulhunter]

Erm, for me the max bitrate for 6Ch HE-AAC is 128Kbps... :confused:

http://img90.exs.cx/img90/9725/a4hhe.png

And for 6Ch LC-AAC I cant set any bitrate... :sly:

http://img90.exs.cx/img90/2379/w5ylc.png


Bye

[chilledoutuk]

that might be related to either the gui language as my english one is fine.

You do have the maximum definition profile selected dont you

[cypher_soundz]

yup :( ...let me see 5k/s at the mo...will cut out soon lol
Regards
cyph

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk

You do have the maximum definition profile selected dont you

Yes, selecting the max definition profile does the trick... :)

But now I have to ask why the HDTV profile has a 128Kbps limit !?!


Bye

[chilledoutuk]

OK i have split the NVE30114.exe installer into 5mb rars and i am uploading them to a gmail acount.

goto www.gmail.com

login with

username: imabitofatwat@gmail.com

Password: fileshare

just download the attachments of each email and extract there will be 7 parts when finished.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I think you may have found a bug Soulhunter!

When using the "High Definition TV" profile, with "5.1-ch Surround Sound". When I select: -

"Low Complexity" - I don't get any bitrate settings
"High Efficiency" - I only get 96Kbps and 128Kbps

Maybe bobololo can confirm?


Cheers

PS. I upgraded Nero Vision Express only and not Nero

[cypher_soundz]

thanks chilledoutuk your a life saver:).
regards
cyph

[Omni]

is there a possibility that the whole thing is very buggy?
sometimes it encodes correctly, sometimes it just returns a 16kb file in the second pass.
it doesn't like huffy files and shows problems with some avisynth files
but as far as the quality is concerned it's quite good for the "first" release.

[MacAddict]

Definitely a little buggy. Sometimes it excepts my AVS or MPG files as input and sometimes not, in every case the fix is to close it down and relaunch it.

[Omni]

well i'd really like to test it with longer encodes but the above mentioned problems are keeping me from doing so :(
3 mins where the maximum. and well a 3min file isn't representative.

Nero "The Good":
+ less noise
+ promising gui, good for beginners
+ easy to handle

"The Bad":
- can get blocky in highmotion scenes or background can get blocky when an object coverd it (like a moving hand)
- gui is lacking some features (is there a crop feature?)
- annoyingly buggy ^_^
- codec not usable in other applications :(

that's what i currently think. the major problem are the bugs....
btw. don't know if someone can confirm it but when i set an encoding range the secondpass won't work at least with this simple avisynth script:

Mpeg2Source("temp.d2v")
Telecide(hints=false,order=1,post=2,blend=true,ovr="temp.d2v.tel.txt")
Decimate(cycle=5,quality=3,ovr="temp.d2v.dec.txt")
undot()
TemporalSoften(4,4,4,5,2)
Crop(4,2,-4,-2)
UnsharpMask(strength=20,radius=2,threshold=2)
bicubicresize(704,480,0,0.500)

i tried to load the avisynth file over another avisynth file via avisource() and for the moment it works but this also can be a concidence.

[chilledoutuk]

I can honestly say that i have not had one problem with the recode application encoding from .avs scripts or any mpeg2 source dvb captures or vobs.

one thing that i noticed when i encode from Avisynth scripts in Vdubmod is that a decompressor is used for decoding the uncompressed video.
At the moment on my machines the XVID decoder seems to be used for this as can be seen below.

http://www.aoul98.dsl.pipex.com/chilledoutuk/vdubinfo.gif


I am not sure if recode also uses an external decompressor but if it does then this could be causing problems loading avs scripts in recode.

I also think it would be useful to know whether people having problems with avs and recode have actually used recode before this release so that we can ascertain whether its an issue with this particular release or with all versions of recode.

[cypher_soundz]

heres another mirror
http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=315789908538AF5408005CDFE1D7BBC5
Regards
cyph

[netchris]

Omni wrote:
- can get blocky in highmotion scenes or background can get blocky when an object coverd it (like a moving hand)
- gui is lacking some features (is there a crop feature?)
- annoyingly buggy ^_^v

-Maybe you get the blockiness from the adaptive deblocking option. It gives me many blocks too. I prefer having it deactivated and using a deblocking strength of 1. I get very nice-clean (not so smooth) results.
-There is a crop feature at the video options.
-Not for me (luckily)

It has crashed twice but in general its working fine. The gui the more I use the more I like. I open mpg files without problems(they are sat. captures and they all opened ok).
I have some things to complain about (like smearing at places, and not so smooth color gradients at times), but I could be exagerating.
So far my experience with Nero is at least very satisfying.

[acidsex]

I agree, overall, awesome quality. I just wish it was faster (I'm on a P4 2.4ghz and get about 5-7 fps on the second pass of Standard AVC. :(

[pike]

I only did 2 encoding attempts

CPU: AMD XP 3200
Sourcefile: a 450mb 1080i HDTV 4minute .ts file

attempt1: Standard AVC, bumped bitrate to ~1mbps, all other settings default.
Time taken: 55minutes
Result: file plays ok

attempt2: Cinema AVC, no settings changed (4mbps).
Time taken: ~3hours
Result: audio and video are not in sync :(

:devil:

[Taurus]

Originally posted by MacAddict
Definitely a little buggy. Sometimes it excepts my AVS or MPG files as input and sometimes not, in every case the fix is to close it down and relaunch it.
Same to me. Vobs loaded the first time =ok. Vobs loaded a second time = :devil:
Same happens with different avs scripts.
Even relaunch of Recode doesn't solve this issue.
A full restart of the machine did the trick.
Sometimes the enties in the queue field are greyed out and Encode crashes, starting encoding.
Strange, real buggy.

Cheers

Taurus

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Taurus

Vobs loaded the first time =ok. Vobs loaded a second time = :devil:


Can confirm this...

But restarting reloaded works for me !!!


Bye

[thegeby]

First of all, I have none of the issues reported here. Being an absolute lunatic, I took a 3m 12m film, well known for its excellent transfer;) , and recoded it with Cinema AVC and 6ch HE-AAC. 35 hours later, I have to say I am impressed.:D

On a DVD-R it ended up being 720x304p, but manages to do it without inserting any artifacts, as far as I can see.

6ch AAC sounds marvellous at 128k, no blocks, no excessive softness, no jumps.

[Sagittaire]

best quality for metric

Profil : maximum defintion
Rate control : 2 pass encoding
general setting : quality extra, motion vectors -512 to 512, max ref frame = 5, max GOP = 300, max bframe = 3
encoding tools : Cabac, bidectional pred, macroblock part, weigth pred, adaptative deblocking desactived, deblocking strength = 0
video enhancement : cartoon and psy = low


good quality and good speed

Profil : standard AVC
Rate control : 2 pass encoding
general setting : quality best, motion vectors -128 to 128, max ref frame = 1, max GOP = 300, max bframe = 3
encoding tools : Cabac, bidectional pred, macroblock part, weigth pred, adaptative deblocking desactived, deblocking strength = 0
video enhancement : normal and psy = low or high

[bobololo]

Regarding all the issues you have, please could you post them in the dedicated thread so we can easily compile and address them efficiently !

Thanks !

ps: maybe a mod can sort all the bugs/issues posts here and gather them in the other thread. That would be really nice !

[Omni]

Originally posted by netchris
-Maybe you get the blockiness from the adaptive deblocking option. It gives me many blocks too. I prefer having it deactivated and using a deblocking strength of 1. I get very nice-clean (not so smooth) results.

no^^ i deaktivated deblocking and got some scenes where blocks appeared.
i used an anime-dvd (12 kingdoms). i'll reinstall recode 2 now^^ maybe it fixes my problems if i'm lucky.
but really the quality is impressive :)

[bobololo]

Originally posted by acidsex
I agree, overall, awesome quality. I just wish it was faster (I'm on a P4 2.4ghz and get about 5-7 fps on the second pass of Standard AVC. :(

Did you change the default settings ? If not, I really suggest you to reduce the number of reference to 1.

[nicco]

ok, after my first test on a frameserved DV (Premiere(debugmode fram.)->avisynth->recode)@maximum quality (deblock=1, max ref=2, psy=off), these are my impressions:

+ very good quality, recode@1000Kbps looks better than divx@1200Kbps (on my tests, of course), (+ recode preserves much more details)
+ no problems with MPC playback
+ no audio/video sync problems
- quite long encoding
-- It can be played only with recode installed!(It's not a goal for a wide distribution), maybe you could make a free Decoder-pack with only nero decoder filters. For example: I have to distribute my movies to some people, they don't have nero installed and they don't want to buy it only for watching one movie, so I have to encode my movie with other codecs. But if you provide a free-decoder pack they can download it and watch the movies and, becouse they are astonished of their quality they will buy nero for encodings.....
- why can't I encode in nero with Vdub?

- still problems with nero serial (I can get the right options in recode only if I emove nero serial! Nero Ultra6.6.0.1)

:)

[Skuto]

- why can't I encode in nero with Vdub?


VDub only supports the old VFW interface, while Nero uses the newer DirectShow one.

[Cyberace]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
I just tested XboxMediaCenter (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) and it can't play any of my encodes, it seems that MPlayer must not be able to play AVC .mp4's at all (well at least the version used in latest XBMC (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com)). In fact looking at MPlayer itself it can play H.264 in an AVI container but the splitter spazes out when playing an MP4 container with AVC/H.264, if this can be fixed then we are on our way. What's the best way to get MPlayer-devs attention?, through their IRC-channel or mailing-lists?, don't they have a forum?MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu) don't have a forum (and they don't like requests or bug-reports to their dev-mailing-list) so best use MPlayer's bugzilla (http://bugzilla.mplayerhq.hu) and/or users-mailing-list (http://mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mplayer-users) to report this/these issue(s) to them. Plus since most MPlayer codecs (though not their demuxers?) are based on FFmpeg (http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net) it might be worth if to report the issue to them too, (I believe FFmpeg (http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net) only use mailing-lists for communication to them?).

...on the flip side you can also try to report the issue to Ahead's Nero Digital devision (http://www.nerodigital.com) who might be willing to fix it and send code patch to MPlayer/FFmpeg, (as one could imagine that they indirectly benifit from the fact that MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu), FFmpeg (http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net) and FFdshow (http://ffdshow.sourceforge.net) can decode/demux (but not encode) their codecs and containers.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
best quality for metric

good quality and good speed

deblocking strength = 0

Is it just me ?: can't find "deblocking strength = **" in configuration panel. :mad:
All other options are visible.

Cheers

Taurus

[Manao]

When accessing the page where you configure the codec, check expert mode, go to encoding tools, and in the deblocking's frame, select deblocking strength ( instead of automatic sharp / smooth ) and voilà !, you get a slider which allows you to set the strength.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by Manao
When accessing the page where you configure the codec, check expert mode, go to encoding tools, and in the deblocking's frame, select deblocking strength ( instead of automatic sharp / smooth ) and voilà !, you get a slider which allows you to set the strength.
At times I feel so dumb :stupid: :stupid:

Thank you, Manao!

Cheers

Taurus

[billou2k]

Any idea how to get Recode recognise interlaced videos or force it to work in interlace mode?
I have interlaced avs clips but Recode recognises them as progressive. I encode the clip in interlaced with huffyuv but Recode still considers it is progressive, the same goes for interlaced mpeg2 or xvid clips...

[WorBry]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
are you still having problems downloading?

I guess I was the lone voice who expressed frustration with the slow/repeatedly aborting download of the exe file. Finally managed to get the complete file.

This being my first venture into Nero Digital, tried a few encodes from high quality PAL Type II DV test videos using an AVS script that I use for all MPEG4 (and VP6)compressions:

avisource("E:\test file.avi")
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
KernelDeint(order=0,sharp=true)
LanczosResize(720,528)
Undot()

Using the "standard" Recode2 profiles for ND and AVC in 2-pass mode at the default settings, all test encodes completed succesfully. The visual quality generally appeared quite good, but I was suprised to see more artifacts (edge shimmers and distortions) with the AVC encodes and to me ND looked better, although I would say, in my humble(i.e. "always looking for a better compression format") opinion, not as good as XviD encoded with a sharp matrix or (dare I say it in this thread) VP6 (2-pass at 2000kbps). I'll run some objective quality tests (PSNR's) when I have more time. However, I did some quick checks on CPU usage and frame rates. On my PC (AMD XP2800, 1GB RAM, XPPro) CPU usage on playback in Nero Showtime was about 20-23% for the ND encodes, which is on par with XviD and DivX, but the AVC was up at 60%, about the same as VP6. Using the statistics view in ClassicMediaPlayer, the AVC videos ran a few frames under target with some video/audio async.

Out of interest I also some ran some encodes with the source DV files direct. I was suprised to note that Recode2 considered these files to be progressive ! Encoded them anyway as interlaced. The results were not that great, with more edge artifacts. I've yet to try DVD to ND and AVC.

[Sagittaire]

CPU usage on playback in Nero Showtime was about 20-23% for the ND encodes, which is on par with XviD and DivX, but the AVC was up at 60%, about the same as VP6.
You must desactive Post-Process with Nero decoder ...



Sample 500 Kbps H264 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-H264-500.mp4)
Sample 500 Kbps VP6 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-VP6-500.avi)
Sample 500 Kbps RV10 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-RV10-500.rmvb)
Sample 500 Kbps XviD (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-XviD-500.avi)

Sample 1000 Kbps H264 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-H264-1000.mp4)
Sample 1000 Kbps VP6 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-VP6-1000.avi)
Sample 1000 Kbps RV10 (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-RV10-1000.rmvb)
Sample 1000 Kbps XviD (http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/Sample-XviD-1000.avi)

H264 with best setting is very better than other codec especially for high quant encoding ...

[kurt]

nice clips! for H264 wich resize method did you use? Automatic or Lanczos?

[jedillwag]

Hello everyone

I have made a few test runs of the new Nero AVC, using a DVD ripped to Hard drive.

Standard AVC
HDTV AVC
Maximum definition AVC

I compared all the files and I see no difference between them using these different Nero digital profiles, Should I ?

Should the files be about the same to my untrained eyes.

Why does it take so long it. I stopped it after 10 hours. It would have taken 35 to complete. Before with h.263 I would spend about 4 to 6 hours.

how long are your recodes taking?

I see Nero is 64 bit compatible maybe I could upgrade, but my calculations still say 8 to 13 hours after the upgrade.

And although I think the H.264 recodes look great, what benefits do they possess over a H.263 recode? Stand alone players?

Thank you for your time.
Jedillwag

[Skuto]

You shouldn't see any difference with a DVD source. The profiles set limits on the allowed resolution, bitrate, and AVC tools that can be used.

MPEG H264/AVC takes longer to encode than MPEG4-ASP, because, well, it's a more advanced codec :)

That's also the advantage over H263: *much* better quality at the same bitrate.

[temporance]

Sagittaire,

> H264 with best setting is very better than other codec especially for high quant encoding ...

I just downloaded H264 and Xvid 500k versions. One thing that strikes me is the lack of any fine texture in the H264 encodes. The walls and banister in H264 look like they are freshly painted and eveyone looks like he has had a very recent shave and is wearing a lot of makeup. I concede that the MPEG-4 encode contains more blocking artifacts -- so I haven't decided which codec I like better overall, yet.

Now I'm wondering if, seeing as AVC doesn't represent textures very well, it would be an interesting comparison to strip out these sort of fine textures before encoding. This would allow the MPEG-4 codecs maybe to reduce quantizer slightly and avoid some of their trailing / blocking artifacts. So my question is, have you or anyone else tried this? What filters would be good as an "AVC-effect" prefilter for ASP codecs?

Thanks for hosting the samples :)

[Teegedeck]

AVC uses inloop filtering which is quite a different thing. To reach a similar effect with MPEG4 ASP use post-processing. And for more detail in AVC disable 'deblocking' (=inloop filtering). Then XviD and AVC will look much the same (and also have the same efficiency BTW; from my tests AVC won't do better than XviD at low bitrates without inloop filtering, sorry to say that).

[chilledoutuk]

Thats mostly due to the VHQ alglrithms which are the best rate distortion alglorithms around if im not mistaken.

is there any noise as to whether the xvid team will be implementing avc?

[Teegedeck]

I'm not into IRC, so I'm a bit detached from what's happening. :p

There's always x264 to be joined if Open Source developers feel like working on an AVC implementation.

The Snow codec seems very attractive, too, tho. Who knows? But I bet we'll see the potential of good old MPEG4 ASP further exploited. --> HVS-plugins etc.

[aicjofs]

I evaluated it from a beginner to intermediate standpoint with the thought of using the availible one click solutions. i.e. non-expert, simple I myself am intermediate at best. The goal will be a desired file size. In this case 50MB for a 4:32 clip. Keep an open mind as this isn't exactly an apples to apples comparision, and it's not quite scientifically sound.

The one click solutions will be

AutoGK 1.81 for Xvid, Divx 2pass
TMPEG Xpress 3.0.4.24 WMV9 2pass
Nero Recode 2.2.6.1 AVC simple profile 2 pass

Original source
Size : 178MB
Video: MPEG2 5-6Mbps 720x480
Audio: AC3 192 Kbps

Divx 5.0.5 - this is here to compare a codec of the past
Size : 49.7MB
Video: 1-1.8Mbps VBR (avg 1.4Mbps) 704x400
Audio: MP3 128Kbps VBR
Encode time: ~12min

Xvid 1.0.2 - Honestly I know this codec could have been better but this what AutoGK came up with(remember this is for one clickers)
Size : 49.9Mb
Video: 1-1.8Mbps VBR (avg 1.4 Mbps) 704x400
Audio: MP3 128Kbps VBR
Encode time: ~10min

WMV9 - A great codec IMO just not flexible with M$ power trip.
Size : 49.8MB
Video: 1-2Mbps VBR (avg 1.5Mbps) 704x400
Audio: WMA 96kbps VBR
Encode time: ~16min

AVC simple profile - The future??
Size : 49.1MB
Video: Target 1.44Mbps
Audio: HE-AAC 64Kbps
Encode time: ~45min

High motion scene:

I evaluated the area around her head and the breaking glass in the picture. AVC and WMV9 are both near quality of the source if not equal. Xvid and Divx lag behind.

Source (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/source.png)
AVC (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/AVC.png)
WMV9 (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/WMV.png)
Xvid (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/xvid.png)
Divx (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/divx.png)

Low Motion scene:

I evaluated the area to the left of her arm near the chain. AVC wins but if you notice the shoulder strap turned out a bit blocky. Xvid and WMV9 tie and Divx brings up the rear.

Source (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/source1.png)
AVC (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/AVC1.png)
WMV9 (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/WMV1.png)
Xvid (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/xvid1.png)
Divx (http://home.comcast.net/~aicjofs/divx1.png)

Obviously AVC and WMV9 get the benefit of a few extra bits due to space saved on audio. I think this brings the best quality to date, epecially since it's relitively user friendly. It is truly amazing. I'm not so sure the extra encoding time is worth it if your not fanatical about quality. I think for compatibility and the quick backup Xvid still has quite a few days left in it's lifetime :D Again, this isn't pure science, just what I see, in my unscientific manner.

If the images are too dark it's probably my fault...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by aicjofs
If the images are too dark it's probably my fault... How about generating some "comp tests" at 1:1... Or with just the mattes cropped away!

If re-sizers are not used, your tests may be more precise...


Cheers

[Teegedeck]

A test about 'out of the box' quality with one-click encoding applications is legitimate, too, I think. I had in mind doing something like that just for myself, too. Thanks. :)

Is there interlacing in the AutoGK XviD snapshot?

[temporance]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
AVC uses inloop filtering which is quite a different thing. To reach a similar effect with MPEG4 ASP use post-processing. And for more detail in AVC disable 'deblocking' (=inloop filtering). Then XviD and AVC will look much the same (and also have the same efficiency BTW; from my tests AVC won't do better than XviD at low bitrates without inloop filtering, sorry to say that). Thanks Teegedeck, agreed and understood. In my comparison I used MPEG-4 postprocessing (DivX Plasma PP) and skin / wall textures etc. were preserved. AVC's in-loop deblocking has a distinct softening ("flattening") effect on these parts of the image.

So, if people are willing to accept the texture-squishing effect of AVC in exchange for less blocking, maybe a similar outcome could be had with ASP codecs by some judicious use of a spatial filter prior to encoding. The filter would strip out fine texture and allow the ASP codec to use a lower quantizer and reduce blocking.

[bond]

Originally posted by kurt
for H264 wich resize method did you use? Automatic or Lanczos?i would love to know this too, last time i tested it with neros mpeg-4 asp codec they used a resizer that brought quality between bilinear and softresize (so a really bad one, smoothing out lots of details)
i hope ahead consideres using a high quality resizer, cause otherwise it doesnt make much sense to use avc, if the details of the source get smoothed out by the resizer already

[Sagittaire]

Originally posted by kurt
nice clips! for H264 wich resize method did you use? Automatic or Lanczos?

Same avs script for all codec : source is identical for all
Neutral bicubic in avs script ...

For MPEG4 ASP H263 + PP4 is the best solution and by far ... HVS custom matrix is a good solution but with PP0

For me Nero H264 is visually very better than MPEG4 ASP¨and by far. With High quant encoding (q4 and more) MPEG4 ASP present high ringing level (especially with custom matrix).

[JimmyZ]

is there anyway to remux the resulting .mp4 file into matroska or some container else? i just wanna use the video with original ac3 audio track.

mkvtoolnix failed to recognize the "avc1" video stream :(

[JohnV]

Originally posted by temporance
Sagittaire,

> H264 with best setting is very better than other codec especially for high quant encoding ...

I just downloaded H264 and Xvid 500k versions. One thing that strikes me is the lack of any fine texture in the H264 encodes. The walls and banister in H264 look like they are freshly painted and eveyone looks like he has had a very recent shave and is wearing a lot of makeup. I concede that the MPEG-4 encode contains more blocking artifacts -- so I haven't decided which codec I like better overall, yet.
Try lowering the adaptive deblocking strength. Disabling inloop filtering totally is not the only option..

[JohnV]

Originally posted by bond
i would love to know this too, last time i tested it with neros mpeg-4 asp codec they used a resizer that brought quality between bilinear and softresize (so a really bad one, smoothing out lots of details)
i hope ahead consideres using a high quality resizer, cause otherwise it doesnt make much sense to use avc, if the details of the source get smoothed out by the resizer already You can choose lanczos: In Recode go to configuration -> Nero Digital -> Up/Downsizing

[Manao]

Temporance : you want an avc like filter ? Encode with avc prior to xvid :p Else, you can try a "dust" with strong settings, or mvdenoise, and possibly also a spatial denoiser ( deen ). Then you'll get a picture which should look much like avc. But imho, that won't make xvid look better than avc ( blocks'll still be here anyway, as Teegedeck said, inloop plays a great role to avoid blocks )

Jimmiz : you should be able to put ac3 into mp4, so there's no need for matroska. Anyway, if i'm not mistaken, matroska doesn't support yet h264 natively. EDiiiit : before bond jumps in the way :) It seems ac3 isn't supported yet by mp4. i confused aac for ac3. My bad

chilledoutuk : rate distorsion algorithms don't leave you much liberties in the way of implementing them. So VHQ is as good as any other rate distorsion optimisations. ( OK, apart from DivX5's one, which are worse, but then, i wonder how did they ever manage to bork that )

[akupenguin]

Originally posted by Manao
rate distorsion algorithms don't leave you much liberties in the way of implementing them. So VHQ is as good as any other rate distorsion optimisations. ( OK, apart from DivX5's one, which are worse, but then, i wonder how did they ever manage to bork that )
You have a choice of how to measure "distortion". Most implementations simply use squared error, due to the lack of good video psy models. But there are alternatives, like lavc's "quantiser noise shaping".

[JimmyZ]

Originally posted by Manao
Jimmiz : you should be able to put ac3 into mp4, so there's no need for matroska. Anyway, if i'm not mistaken, matroska doesn't support yet h264 natively. EDiiiit : before bond jumps in the way :) It seems ac3 isn't supported yet by mp4. i confused aac for ac3. My bad


so... :(

any easier way to anamorphic resize the image? i use avisynth to provide the video to nerorecode, and wanna use the AR feature to correct the destination resolution (i'm used to use mkvtoolnix to do that with xvid in mkv)

there are 3 ways mentioned in bond's "MP4 FAQ":
Originally posted by bond
10) How can I "anamorphic resize" with MP4?
As the MPEG-4 Standard aims to be a "multi-talent", satisfying everyone's needs, it offers 3 possibilites:
1) on the video bitstream level: maybe the most practicable method atm
use a codec which allows the setting of a PAR (eg 3ivx, ffmpeg/ffvfw, XviD), than mux the resulting AVI into MP4 by using any MP4 muxer (for example the 3ivx mp4 muxer, MP4Box or mp4UI). you can change the PAR on existing bitstreams with Moitah's RP Tool.
playback also already perfectly works automatically with the 3ivx decoder filter
2) on the container level: MP4 offers the possibility to use a "Composition Matrix", which allows the changing of the AR, rotating of the picture, multilayer handling, mixing of two audio streams during playback (eg seperated speech and music in movies), etc...
Quicktime/Pro already offers many composition possibilities via Movie -> Get Movie Properties -> Video/Sound Track -> Size/Layer/Volume/... and the correct playback of such composed MP4 files
3) on the BIFS level: which allows the broadest range of authoring possibilities (question 9) and therefore also changing of the AR (eg via Transform2D.scale)
to create this BIFS control stream and to use it during playback you can use the tools from the GPAC project: MP4Box and Osmo4 (download)

the first way: there is no tool can demux the video out.
the second: QuickTimePro can't recognize mp4 with avc ATM.
the third: should work but seems much too complex:(

[nicco]

One thing that strikes me is the lack of any fine texture in the H264 encodes. The walls and banister in H264 look like they are freshly painted and eveyone looks like he has had a very recent shave and is wearing a lot of makeup

Try deblocking=0/1 and disable adaptive deblokcing

[CruNcher]

this artifiacial look comes from the higher encode modes if you want XviD stlye look but still a more stable picture + more details and almost the same encoding speed as XviD with Vhq 2 B-frame Vhq + Qpel use Normal mode for AVC and the full tool set except Macroblock Partitioning if you do high res videos it wont help anyway only slow you down.

720x576 (both passes) 3:21 Pal 25 Fps
XviD + avisynth + mpegdecoder = 13 minutes
Recode 2.2 AVC (normal) vob directly = 20 minutes

theres also a way to make 1pass for AVC faster but this works only with the encoder beta users have you can do a 1pass with the fastest mode this will give you like +4 fps for the 1pass


1st run
-qual fastest -rcmode 1st -log 1pass.log -br 900000

2nd run
-qual normal -rcmode 2nd -log 1pass.log -br 900000


in my short test clips this has no real impact on the Rate Control efficiency but i didn't tested yet for a full movie

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by CruNcher

...use Normal mode for AVC and the full tool set except Macroblock Partitioning...

Yes, using the normal mode helps... :)

But @ high bitrates, AVC still "eats" more details than XviD !!!


Bye

[Omni]

visually avc is really good on the first look. but depending on the material and bitrate (in my case about 1.6mbit/s) xvid with qpel is a bit better. avc looked worse in the background but better in the front where the most movements are visible but without an encode over a full 25min episode i can't count these first impressions completely :(
smoothing wasn't that big problem in my case ^^ animes normally get a bit smoothed anyway depending on the source but my source doesn't need any smoothing and has some nice colored and detailed backgrounds which wheren't smoothed a lot. if i manage to do a full encode i'll post the results here :)

[bobololo]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Yes, using the normal mode helps... :)

But @ high bitrates, AVC still "eats" more details than XviD !!!


Could you please post some example that clearly shows this case ? (if possible including the source and both xvid/avc encodes). Our implementation may be not tuned enough for high bitrate and hopefuly this could be improved easily.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by bobololo

Could you please post some example that clearly shows this case ? (if possible including the source and both xvid/avc encodes). Our implementation may be not tuned enough for high bitrate and hopefuly this could be improved easily.

Sure...

But you have to wait a bit, coz Im running a very long encode (http://img22.exs.cx/img22/7296/f9nbadtiming.png) atm !!!

Or I could send you a pm with enough info to reproduce my results... :o


Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Sure...

But you have to wait a bit, coz Im running a very long encode (http://img22.exs.cx/img22/7296/f9nbadtiming.png) atm !!! Jeez... over 31 hours!

This reminds me of an WMV9 encode I generated a couple of years ago :eek:


Cheers

[Soulhunter]

@ SeeMoreDigital

Well, 30 hours without filtering...

I did the filtering before (5000 min.) and saved the result lossless !!!


@ bobololo

I just realized that I can run multiple instances of recode !!!

So, I generated a sample (http://s05.imagehost.org/0345/Details.png) that shows the difference...

But where can I upload the clips ???


Bye

[billou2k]

I've fed Recode with interlaced DV clips (it seems at the moment to be the only content apart from DVD that will be recognised as interlaced), and I set it to NOT deinterlace (By the way how come that Recode recommends to deinterlace pure interlace stuff "to improve quality"??, as far as I know you don't exactly improve quality by deinterlacing a pure interlaced video, and going from 50Hz to 25fps)

Anyway, I've also configured NeroShowTime not to deinterlaced. However what's displayed is clearly a deinterlaced picture.

At the moment I dont care that weaved fields are not comfortable to watch as I guess at some points it will be possible to watch it on a TV via PC TVout or standalones,
I'm just trying to compare codecs performances with interlaced encoding.

So is there a reason that I can't see the weaved fields? Is it a bug in Showtime that deinterlaces anyway even if it has been told not to, or is it a bug in the encoder that deinterlaces anyway and encodes progressive?

[nicco]

@soulhunter


So, I generated a sample that shows the difference...

can you post your settings?:)

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by nicco

Can you post your settings?

Well, I thought its better to post it together with the video samples... ;)

XviD: EQMV3UHR / VHQ4 / Chroma motion / BVOPs 1-1-1

AVC: HighestQuality / No Deblocking / No Psy / V=512


Bye

[CruNcher]

@Soulhunter
thats normal you cant preserve the noise and inbetween that are the details with AVC it will allways merge the pixels and look artificial
at least you think it looks artificial but who knows if the original source didn't looked like this before it was compressed to Mpeg-2 ;)

I never saw 1K source that came out of a Filmscanner unfortunately :(

[nicco]

@soulhunter

what bitrate?....:p

Whatching your shots I see that AVC is less noise (like cruncher said) but not less detailed (or maybe I'm missing something)
Removing noise is a quite normal preprocessing task (avisynth filters) becouse many people don't like it.

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
@ bobololo

But where can I upload the clips ???


you can upload your files in ftp://mood.ateme.com/incoming

[Sharktooth]

Finally recode works.
Here's what I did:
1 Removed all the serials from Nero ProductCenter
2 Uninstalled all Nero products
3 Search the registry for keys about Nero
4 Removed the registry keys
5 Reboot
5 Reinstalled NeroBR and NeroVE
6 Reboot
7 Reinserted the serials (including the plugins)
8 Removed NVE (Nero digital options didnt show...)
9 Reboot
10 Reinstalled NVE
11 *** IT FINALLY WORKS ***

Now my considerations: I can understand the paranoia of pirated software but users who paid for the software shouldnt spent days and days trying to make it work only because a stupid protection mechanism is buggy.
Your software will be pirated anyways, so make it easy for the ppl who paid for it...

[Teegedeck]

Originally posted by nicco
Whatching your shots I see that AVC is less noise (like cruncher said) but not less detailed (or maybe I'm missing something)

Perhaps that Gladiators don't really have such a smooth skin?

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by nicco

Whatching your shots I see that AVC is less noise (like cruncher said) but not less detailed (or maybe I'm missing something)
Removing noise is a quite normal preprocessing task (avisynth filters) becouse many people don't like it.

Well, for me the noise and film-grain is part of the image detail !!!

Btw, I think most ppl use denoising to raise the compressibility...


Originally posted by babayaga

You can upload your files in ftp://mood.ateme.com/incoming

Thanks, the "Samples.zip" is on the way... ;)

EDIT: Ok, its uploaded now !!!


Bye

[Sharktooth]

Well... noise and grain are 2 different things...
At least i can distinguish them.
Noise can be safely filtered out and then added during playback.
Film grain cant...

[Soulhunter]

Yes, there is indeed a difference...

But removing the noise without touching the grain is a hard task !!!


Bye

[karl_lillevold]

Has anyone been able to import a Nero encoded MP4 file with DirectShowSource in Avisynth?

I get "DirectShowSource: unable to determine the duration of the video". I have the latest Nero installed (30114), and the MP4 plays fine in DirectShow media players.

Avisynth script:
a = DirectShowSource("output.mp4", fps=23.976, audio=false)
return a

(adding 'seek=false' does not help)

The DS filter loaded for decoding is "Nero DVD Decoder".

[bond]

Originally posted by JohnV
You can choose lanczos: In Recode go to configuration -> Nero Digital -> Up/Downsizingcool, thats indeed a more than very important feature :)

[Sagittaire]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Has anyone been able to import a Nero encoded MP4 file with DirectShowSource in Avisynth?

I get "DirectShowSource: unable to determine the duration of the video". I have the latest Nero installed (30114), and the MP4 plays fine in DirectShow media players.

Avisynth script:
a = DirectShowSource("output.mp4", fps=23.976, audio=false)
return a

(adding 'seek=false' does not help)

The DS filter loaded for decoding is "Nero DVD Decoder".

eh eh eh ... you want make PSNR test ... :devil:

try with trim:
a = DirectShowSource("output.mp4", fps=23.976, audio=false)
a = trim(a, 0, 1500)
return a

perhabs bobololo or babagaya could post in PM beta parser and beta decoder for your test ... lol

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
cool, thats indeed a more than very important feature :) Agreed...

I must admit I'm quite surprised that such a feature is buried here...

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/5199/recode2lanczosresize0jo.png

...and not in a more prominent place!

Even so it appears to work well.


Cheers

[temporance]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
eh eh eh ... you want make PSNR test ... :devil:

try with trim:
a = DirectShowSource("output.mp4", fps=23.976, audio=false)
a = trim(a, 0, 1500)
return a
I'm trying to do a similar thing (though for a StackVertical comparison, not a PSNR test :) ). Adding trim() does not help, the error "unable to determine the duration of the video" is still there :( .

[karl_lillevold]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
try with trim:
a = DirectShowSource("output.mp4", fps=23.976, audio=false)
a = trim(a, 0, 1500)
return a

perhabs bobololo or babagaya could post in PM beta parser and beta decoder for your test ... lol
Trim did not make any difference.

Actually, Ateme was kind enough to let me participate in the Beta test, so I have version beta-4a. With this, I can kind of get Avisynth to work without seek. However, normal DirectShow playback, which the Nero versions of the filters handle well, is not working well in Ateme's versions, with frozen video, failed seeks, player will not open etc. (on the Nero encoded content)

[Andrey]

Hi, guys !
>>Sharktooth: Finally recode works.
You are lucky. Still no chance for me.
But I'll try your method step by step when I have spare time, may be it will help... :devil:
>>Soulhunter: If I add "ConvertToRGB32" to the script, recode simply disappears !?!
My current installation (show mpeg4 enc) disappears EVERY time I tried to use avs source, regardless of what is inside :devil:
And
>>Noise can be safely filtered out and then added during playback.
>>Film grain cant...
Hm ? Is that bolobolo, who showed here an example of analysing film grain before encoding and adding it after ?
And said that it is one of the tools they gonna to implement in the future... :)
Or I'm wrong ? (It was in that beta test chain on this forum)

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Andrey

My current installation disappears EVERY time I tried to use avs source...


Have you tried to delete the WarpSharp.dll from AviSyths plugin folder ???

Maybe moving all plugins in a different folder works...


Originally posted by Andrey

Hm ? Is that bolobolo, who showed here an example of analysing film grain before encoding and adding it after ?

Nope, that was me... ;)

But you need ffdshow to do this !!!


Bye

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Well, for me the noise and film-grain is part of the image detail !!!

Btw, I think most ppl use denoising to raise the compressibility...

Thanks, the "Samples.zip" is on the way... ;)

EDIT: Ok, its uploaded now !!!

Bye

I disagree about the film grain "removal" in the shot you sent :rolleyes:

There is indeed a loss in grain for both encodes (Xvid and ND) but it appears to me that it's closely related to the B-frames sequence :
- ND B-frames are a little bit more blurry than XviD's but less noisy
- ND P-frames are a little bit more precise than Xvid's and less noisy
- The P-B sequences are not the same so the alternance of noisy/blurry frames is not the same

As a result, a part of the grain you think Xvid preserves is noise added (mostly in B-frames) and the overall impression is closely related to the P-B frame sequence.

As a matter of taste, in this very shot I prefer our way of handling the grain (it looks more "smooth" or less "rusty" to my eyes).

[bond]

Originally posted by Selur
did anyone get it working in Graphedit?
gives me a
"The filter could not be created. Resource used by this filter may already be in use. Class nor registered (return code: 0x80040154)"
error,...hm, any news on that? did anyone manage to encode using neros avc encoder directly in graphedit as it was possible with neros asp encoder?

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by babayaga

As a result, a part of the grain you think Xvid preserves is noise added (mostly in B-frames) and the overall impression is closely related to the P-B frame sequence.

As a matter of taste, in this very shot I prefer our way of handling the grain (it looks more "smooth" or less "rusty" to my eyes).

Well, imo its not really a "matter of taste" thing...

I think a codec should be able to reproduce the source as exact as possible !?!

For me this means, if the source looks "rusty" the encode should look rusty as well...

If you prefer a clean "not rusty" look, you can use one of the numerous denoisers out there !!!


Bye

[Andrey]

>>Maybe moving all plugins in a different folder works...
It works. Thanks a lot !!! :cool:
BTW, why the hell unused(loaded automatically?) plugins (and plugins at all) affects this ? :(

[Manao]

Because they are loaded when avisynth dll is loaded ( in order to know which filters are available )

[nicco]

originally posted by Teegedeck
Perhaps that Gladiators don't really have such a smooth skin?
it depends, I think, on their make-up!
:D :D :D :D

@soulhunter
Premised that quality is subjective (and personally I don't like source-noise), I think you are right with this:

I think a codec should be able to reproduce the source as exact as possible !?!

For me this means, if the source looks "rusty" the encode should look rusty as well...

If you prefer a clean "not rusty" look, you can use one of the numerous denoisers out there !!!

But I really like avc denoising in your shot!

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Well, imo its not really a "matter of taste" thing...
I think a codec should be able to reproduce the source as exact as possible !?!


Well that's exactly what it does :p


For me this means, if the source looks "rusty" the encode should look rusty as well...

If you prefer a clean "not rusty" look, you can use one of the numerous denoisers !!!


I was refering at the look of the noise *not* the video itself.

The source noise is by far not as rusty as the Xvid result especially in B-frames : the added noise in B-frames compensates too much the compression loss.

So in my opinion, there is also a compression loss in ND. This one is smaller than with Xvid (since we have a higher coding efficiency) but is not compensated by an artificial encoder noise like in Xvid.

For those who want to make their own mind, the clips are in ftp://mood.ateme.com/Samples.zip

[Sharktooth]

I prefer the xvid encode. It's sharper and noise/grain is more like the source. AVC encode b-frames are too much "denoised/smoothed".
BTW i spotted some "imperceptible blocks" in the background in both the encodes.

[nicco]

@soulhunter
Btw, I think most ppl use denoising to raise the compressibility...
If you look at my DV-movies you'll understand why I use denoising filters..:devil: :D :D

Personally, for my sources (almost only DV) I prefer avc "denoised picture", becouse details are preserved, and it's hard to me to notice lousy bloks

[temporance]

Originally posted by nicco
Personally, for my sources (almost only DV) I prefer avc "denoised picture", becouse details are preserved, and it's hard to me to notice lousy bloks For me, it's the opposite. We're not talking about denoising, we're talking about "de-texturing" too. I would rather have a few blocking artifacts if it means I can actually see some detail in my movie. AVC is as good at ASP at making sharp edges and strong details look sharp. It is not good though at preserving fine textures, and I don't just mean film grain. Things that make the movie look 'real' (e.g. rough paintwork, actor's crowsfeet or stubble, lichen growing on a wall, leaves on a tree and blades of grass) are better represented, IMHO, by ASP than AVC. Anyway, it's early days and I'm sure this argument will be fought, won and lost over the next year or so.

[Tommy Carrot]

Well, the smoothing away of the fine textures is an unfortunate side-effect of the loop-filter, similarly to the post-filter of mpeg4 asp, and this is the reason most of us don't use post-filtering at playback. The problem is, disabling the loop-filter won't solve the issue, but it creates other, because IMO the blocking effect of h.264 is much more annoying than in the case of mpeg4 asp. You can try to decrease the loop-filter strength, perhaps you can find a more optimal setting, where the smoothness is not so obvious, and the blockyness is still tolerable.

[Soulhunter]

@ temporance

True, much ppl dislike WMV/RV9 for its "smooths out too much fine details" behavior...

Maybe lowering the high frequency cut-off in exchange for some ringing could prevent this !?!


Bye

[nicco]

originally posted by Tommy carrot
The problem is, disabling the loop-filter won't solve the issue, but it creates other, because IMO the blocking effect of h.264 is much more annoying than in the case of mpeg4 asp
True!

originally posted by Tommy carrot
You can try to decrease the loop-filter strength, perhaps you can find a more optimal setting, where the smoothness is not so obvious, and the blockyness is still tolerable.
Is what I've done!:), a deblocking value of 1 (no adaptive) is very good for me

originally posted by temporance
We're not talking about denoising, we're talking about "de-texturing" too.
I was talking to de-texturing too.

originally posted by temporance
I would rather have a few blocking artifacts if it means I can actually see some detail in my movie
I agree, but these details should be more noticeable than blocking artifacts, If I can see these details only with a lens I prefer a bit smoother picture rather than a "party of blocks".
However these are only my own opinions, you have yours! :)

my shots (postprocessing disabled):
[EDIT]updated

[temporance]

@ babayaga

I downloaded your samples, wow that's a high bitrate you use! I prefer the xvid version: the film grain / noise is more alive. The AVC encode has a slight 'dirty window' effect - there seems to be some artificial temporal correlation or "stickiness" of the noise (and the image appears very slightly softer).

@ Tommy

I don't have a problem with ASP deblocking. It doesn't hit texture in flattish areas of the image in the same way that AVC does. Perhaps it's partly helped by the larger block size in ASP. Also ASP deblocking is completely in the hands of the person and the codec doing the decoding - in-loop filtering is decided at encode time.

I have more experimentation to do. Trying AVC with no and minimum deblocking next....

[temporance]

Originally posted by nicco
[EDIT] my shots (postprocessing disabled):
[/B]Interesting. But is it fair to compare DivX and xvid without PP against a deblocked AVC image? Btw, how does the moving picture look - is the blockiness of ASP more/less apparent?

[skal]

Originally posted by temporance
Interesting. But is it fair to compare DivX and xvid without PP against a deblocked AVC image?

Also: how comes "AVC DEBL=1" invented the two sharp skin spots
on the bottom-right corner of the very last picture?

(is it what is refered to as "film grain generation" ? hehe ;) )

More seriously: did you check all the pics are P-frames, e.g.?
(or b-frames, for that matter)

-Skal

[nicco]

originally posted by temporance
But is it fair to compare DivX and xvid without PP against a deblocked AVC image?
In fact, there is also a non-deblocked avc image! Postprocessing is disabled both in asp and avc.

originally posted by temporance
how does the moving picture look - is the blockiness of ASP more/less apparent
The blockiness is less apparent in avc-deblocked movie(the last one), even compared with postprocessed asp.

originally posted by skal
how comes "AVC DEBL=1" invented the two sharp skin spots
on the bottom-right corner of the very last picture?
Don't ask me!:)

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by skal
Also: how comes "AVC DEBL=1" invented the two sharp skin spots
on the bottom-right corner of the very last picture?

(is it what is refered to as "film grain generation" ? hehe ;) )

Originally posted by nicco

Don't ask me!:)

Erm, I think you should take a closer look @ the last sample picture... :rolleyes:

I think it shows a completely different frame number than the others ones !?!


Bye

[CruNcher]

jep it is soulhunter and surely as skal said it even completly different frame types ;)

[nicco]

@soulhunter
I saw the spots, but I don't know why they are so sharp in the last shot (in fact they are in the source too even if less noticeable)

think it shows a completely different frame number than the others ones !?!
oops, maybe...you are right, sorry (I really didn't want to trick you!)
I'll ceck
:p
For now I removed the link, thanks!

[Manao]

Soulhunter : having looked at your sample, I must say, indeed, that XviD looks better. However, i'd point that the bitrate you use is insane : it's the original mpeg2 bitrate... What's the point of the test then ? Trying the reproduce quantization noise from the mpeg2 ? In that case, of course, a 8x8 DCT codec we'll be better. You'll also remark that halving the bitrate for the h264 video won't almost change the perceptual quality.

Then I'll quote you :I think a codec should be able to reproduce the source as exact as possible !?!But your also the one making a prefiltering which takes more time than a full avc encode :)

In that particular case, before encoding to h264, you can easily use a limitedsharpen, followed by a addgrain(), and the result will look better than xvid's ( or, with some tweaking, as close to the source as xvid ).

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Manao

However, i'd point that the bitrate you use is insane...

Well, bobololo asked for a example that "clearly shows" the case...

So I used a "worst conditions" example to amplify the difference !!!


Originally posted by Manao

Then I'll quote you [...]

But your also the one making a prefiltering which takes more time than a full avc encode

With "source" I meant -> the file you feed to the encoder... ;)

No matter if its a raw MPEG2 or a AVS that includes filtering !!!


Bye

[nicco]

ok, now it should be the same
[EDIT]:updated
I'm terribly sorry
:(
Thanks:)

[Bulletproof]

The reference frames have been capped at 8, how come? I seem to remember seeing an improvement with 16.

[Bulletproof]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
You must desactive Post-Process with Nero decoder ...


Where did you find that option?

[Manao]

The reference frames have been capped at 8, how come?Because it's already slow, no need to be slower.
I seem to remember seeing an improvement with 16You must be kidding. 5 references often only brings a 0.05dB raise in psnr, so i very much doubt that 16 references will bring much more ( except slowliness )Where did you find that option?In the nero decoder, you can set the post processing. But I don't know if it really has an influence with a h264 video ( i couldn't spot a difference )

[Andrey]

>>ok, now it should be the same
>>http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img4...romatest6uu.jpg
Heh, what is that artifact near (to the right) woman's nose ?
(in one of AVC encodes)

[Teegedeck]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Well, bobololo asked for a example that "clearly shows" the case...
So I used a "worst conditions" example to amplify the difference !!!
Bye
Yes, I would call it worst... Sorry, but this matrix is bound to give XviD's efficiency a bad name [edit](though it certainly shows that XviD is flexible)[/i], I would never use it. Again, sorry that I have to say that. I dig the work people put into thinking-up matrices. :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Andrey
>>ok, now it should be the same
>>http://img49.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img4...romatest6uu.jpg
Heh, what is that artifact near (to the right) woman's nose ?
(in one of AVC encodes) Is it just me!

It seems the link to your image is not working properly!


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Request to the NeroDigital Team guys...

Speaking as someone who quite likes using the ShowTime 2 player and who regularly activates the "Show Additional Info on OSD" option. Would it be possible include "Additional Info" when playing "audio only" streams.

Or could you at sometime include a more detailed "Stream(s) and Media" information option panel?


Many thanks

[nicco]

the link in my post works ok!

[Manao]

Afaik, Show Time is produced by Ahead, not by Ateme. Ateme only provides the video codecs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks guys...

Photo's downloaded and my "Ateme" post changed...


Cheers

[nicco]

I updated my shots for more clarity (NO_B= no b-frames used in encoding):
[EDIT]:updated

(postprocessing disabled,no GMC,no qpel,no psy, they still should be the same frames:p )

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Teegedeck

Sorry, but this matrix is bound to give XviD's efficiency a bad name...

Uhm, could you explain... :confused:


Tia n' Bye

[Teegedeck]

IMHO and from my, of course limited, testing I'm afraid that other matrices seem to compress much, much better at virtually no difference in quality to UHR at all. Excuse me for being offtopic in the first place, but I wouldn't put this one of all matrices into comparison against a very effcient codec like Ateme's AVC codec. Excuse again that this is only vaguely connected to the original topic, and I also know that we should wait for further rounds of your matrix comparison before claiming to tell anything objectively true about high-bitrate matrices.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Teegedeck

IMHO and from my, of course limited, testing I'm afraid that other matrices seem to compress much, much better at virtually no difference in quality to UHR at all. Excuse me for being offtopic in the first place, but I wouldn't put this one of all matrices into comparison against a very effcient codec like Ateme's AVC codec. Excuse again that this is only vaguely connected to the original topic, and I also know that we should wait for further rounds of your matrix comparison before claiming to tell anything objectively true about high-bitrate matrices.

Imo EQM v3UHR keeps much more fine details (like noise) than most other CQMs...

And this example was mainly to show that XviD is able to keep more noise than h.264 !!!


Bye

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Yes, I would call it worst... Sorry, but this matrix is bound to give XviD's efficiency a bad name [edit](though it certainly shows that XviD is flexible)[/i], I would never use it. Again, sorry that I have to say that. I dig the work people put into thinking-up matrices. :(
UHR has it's own application.
Obviously a Q2 encode with UHR is an overkill...

[Omni]

but if you disable inloop filtering and setup a cm for avc, too wouldn't it be possible to keep up with the quality?
i thinkg that maybe currently xvid is better in normal movies and detailed scenes, but i.e. for animes h264 really looks nice and i'm sure there'll be optimizations on the nero avc which maybe will increase the possible fine-detail :)
(i'm one of those who love a sharp and detailed picture and always go for bitrates above 1,4mbit)

[Teegedeck]

There is no support for custom matrices in MPEG4 AVC. But I'm pretty confident it won't need them.

[skal]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
There is no support for custom matrices in MPEG4 AVC. But I'm pretty confident it won't need them.

Note: FR-extension of AVC has custom quantization matrix, for 4x4
and 8x8 transforms.


Skal

[Soulhunter]

I never said h.264 is worse than XviD, only that its "less good" in keeping fine details like noise !!!

Btw, somewhere I read that the H.264 High Profile even allows dynamic quantization matrices...


Bye

[Teegedeck]

Good to know! This promises interesting times lying ahead of us (pun not intended).

[Bulletproof]

Originally posted by Manao
Because it's already slow, no need to be slower.


That depends on your machine, and it's not like you are forced to use 16. If 16 is too slow for you, then use a lower setting. I used 16 reference frames all the time in the beta and it was usable.

You must be kidding. 5 references often only brings a 0.05dB raise in psnr, so i very much doubt that 16 references will bring much more ( except slowliness )

Actually it did a significant improvement, I still have the beta encoder and I did a quick test on a very short clip with a target bitrate of 669000 and the 5 reference frames setting gave 640.72 bitrate at the end with a speed of 5.27fps, while the 16 reference frames gave 692.03 with a speed of 3.34fps. It is not a huge change but it definitely helps with quality, and over longer clips and larger resolution video it should help even more. When the decoder works with AVISynth again I can actually get some PSNR numbers.

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Actually it did a significant improvement, I still have the beta encoder and I did a quick test on a very short clip with a target bitrate of 669000 and the 5 reference frames setting gave 640.72 bitrate at the end with a speed of 5.27fps, while the 16 reference frames gave 692.03 with a speed of 3.34fps.
One is under the target bitrate, the other is over the target bitrate. Hard to tell what would be the difference with the correct target bitrate...

Anyway, I do not think that more than 5 refs frames is worth the time. 5 refs is already not that usefull most of the time.

[acidsex]

I noticed that there is a new Nero Vision Express package on the ftp site. Does anyone know what is updated/changed? I was hoping to see the ability to export to Nero Digital from Vision Express but apparently that hasnt made in there yet even though it shows as an option in the vision express pdf help file.

Thanks.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Another Request to the NeroDigital Team guys...

Some of us have been reading up about, "The Worlds First Player supporting NeroDigital"

Can any of you provide details regarding NeroDigital's proposed "Profiles" and what they include?


Cheers

[thegeby]

Can any of you provide details regarding NeroDigital's proposed "Profiles" and what they include?

Hello again, SMD
According to the review in the hardware forum, the profiles are as follows )excuse my affliction for pitiful German;) :

Nero Digital Mobile 176x144 15 fps
Nero Digital Portable 352x288 30 fps
Nero Digital Standard 720x576 30 fps
Nero Digital Cinema 1280x720 30 fps
Nero Digital HDTV 1920x1080 30 fps

The AVC Profiles seem to be similar, but with a much lower bitrate. What surprises me is the stated low frame rate 30 fps, close to flicker city (something I have not noted in practice). Another real life observation is that the horizontal rate seems to decide the vertical, i.e. a 720 width movie may well be 304 horizontal pixels if the aspect ratio is 2.35. I have to add that I am anyway quite impressed with the result.....

[Doom9]

@thegeby: actually, we already know that.. but what is way more interesting is bitrate limits, buffering limits, audio and container requirements, mpeg-4 features (like b-frames, qpel, etc) ;)

[thegeby]

Cheers,
the container for ND has always been MP4, hasn't it?

As a data point, the last ND standard (non AVC) I loaded said 4Mb/s. The same AVC indicated half the final size, which to me would indicate roughly 2Mb/s.

Similarily audio for ND is AAC, HE-AAC has been available for quite some time now in recode, but I suspect that ND substitutes LC-AAC if your target size can easily accomodate it. There seems to be a logic there that puts our normal thinking on its head...

As for the other points, I have no input.:(

[dvd_maniac]

I noticed earlier in this thread that if you disable certain features that the resulting file will play in VLC. Should it also be able to play in WMP?

[Manao]

It's not the same issue : vlc isn't a directshow player, so it can't use nero digital direct show filter to decode properly the video. It has instead to use ffmpeg, which is able to decode avc / h264, as far as b-frames & weighted prediction aren't enabled.

On the other hand, WMP, being a direct show player, can read .mp4 files filled with avc / h264 ( and so can mpc, zoom player, bsplayer & the like, which are far better than wmp, imho ), whatever the features enabled in the encoding.

Concerning ffmpeg, the b-frames decoding seems to be on its way. Weighted prediction may come later.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
Should it also be able to play in WMP? WMP should be able to play all of NeroDigital's AVC implementations, so long as you are using Nero's own "direct-show" filters!

Which filter are you currently trying to use?


Cheers

[dvd_maniac]

How would I know which filters I am using? Where would I change them?

On the other hand, WMP, being a direct show player, can read .mp4 files filled with avc / h264 ( and so can mpc, zoom player, bsplayer & the like, which are far better than wmp, imho )

The reason i am trying to get WMP to play the files is so SageTV will also play them. I was told that as long as WMP plays them then Sage would also. I Use SageTV Client on every PC in my home and would like to keep them a one UI unit so my wife and kids won't complain/screw them up...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
How would I know which filters I am using? Where would I change them?

The reason i am trying to get WMP to play the files is so SageTV will also play them. I was told that as long as WMP plays them then Sage would also. If you are playing your files in WMP9/10. Click on "File" then "Properties"... and you should see something like this: -

http://img63.exs.cx/img63/6443/dsdecfilter4wt.png


Cheers

[chilledoutuk]

Originally posted by acidsex
I noticed that there is a new Nero Vision Express package on the ftp site. Does anyone know what is updated/changed? I was hoping to see the ability to export to Nero Digital from Vision Express but apparently that hasnt made in there yet even though it shows as an option in the vision express pdf help file.

Thanks.

looking at the ftp it looks like they have been reoganising the structure. I checked the filesize and it apears to be indenticle to that of the previous and the version number is the same.

I think it would be very strange to update a release and not change the version number.

[dvd_maniac]

@SeeMoreDigital

I do not see the same property tabs as you do...
Nevermind I see it now. I have to go into WMP and select properties after opening the file.
It does not seem to be using the right Video Codec
I am using WMP10 in WinXP Pro....
http://parow.us/prop2.JPG

[Selur]

the Audio Codec could also be the 3ivx Audio Decoder, CoreAAC of FFDShow(FAAC), so this shouldn't be a problem.
Though it's strange that the nero filters weren't used for playback on your system.

You might want to e.g. start Graphedit and check if they are in the list of DirectShow Filters of the system (Graph => insert Filters => DirectShow Filters),...

If not it might help to reinstall recode&nero,...

Cu Selur

[Franky]

I know that on my system, the installer didn't register the codecs correctly, I had to do that myself (luckily Zoom Player simpifies that process a lot).

[Valeron]

Serveral setting question:
1.where to set VBR or CBR mode?
2.Is "deblocking" setting in expert mode in-loop deblocking?
3.Differences between different profile?

Thx.

[nicco]

Added two more shots:

[Manao]

Valeron : I didn't find CBR. VBR could be achieved in a one pass encoding, setting the min & max quantizer to the same value.

Debloking is indeed in loop deblocking.

[Valeron]

@Manao:
Thanks for your reply.
And the 2 pass is?

[chilledoutuk]

Originally posted by Valeron
@Manao:
Thanks for your reply.
And the 2 pass is?

Oh dear you cant seriously be asking how to select 2 pass, please tell me your not.

Perhaps your asking what 2 pass is which is almost as bad as its a tad self descriptive.

[Valeron]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
Oh dear you cant seriously be asking how to select 2 pass, please tell me your not.

Perhaps your asking what 2 pass is which is almost as bad as its a tad self descriptive.
No,no
I understand all the encoder settings as well, but just wonder where to adjust these settings in Nero Recode, just that simple.
I experienced video encoding for a long time, not a newbie anymore.
I mean if 2 pass is VBR or CBR mode.
Because the other codecs can do 2 pass CBR encoding.
So I wonder which mode Nero Recode AVC use by default in 2 pass.

And I think Nero AVC would be a nice codec for my anime backup.

[Ark]

Originally posted by Valeron
No,no
I mean if 2 pass is VBR or CBR mode.
Because the other codecs can do 2 pass CBR encoding.
So I wonder which mode Nero Recode AVC use by default in 2 pass.

What codecs?

AFAIK 2-pass CBR is nonsense...

[Valeron]

Originally posted by Ark
What codecs?

AFAIK 2-pass CBR is nonsense...

AFAIK, VP6 and WMV9 can do 2 pass CBR.
Maybe all the stream via Internet intented codec support this mode, as well as Real Video.

[jedillwag]

I will second that.

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Another Request to the NeroDigital Team guys...

Some of us have been reading up about, "The Worlds First Player supporting NeroDigital"

Can any of you provide details regarding NeroDigital's proposed "Profiles" and what they include?


Cheers

Also we need to make sure we have the full audio story for these players, so we can recode accordingly.
AAC-LC
AAC-HE
Stereo
5.1


And please-please anyone post links to the players you find that will support NeroDigital.

Thanks
jedillwag

[chilledoutuk]

there is a player available since dec 7th 99 euros

go here

http://nerodigital.com/eng/pr20041207.html

by the looks of the player anything under the standard profile should play back.

If its limited to the standard profile that means only lc aac and no 5.1 channels either. also you have to use h.263 and no suprise gmc and qpel are defo no no.

I would like to know though whether it is actualy limited to the standard profile or not though.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
there is a player available since dec 7th 99 euros

go here

http://nerodigital.com/eng/pr20041207.html

by the looks of the player anything under the standard profile should play back. And for more information (well not much more), look here: -

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86408


Cheers

[Andrey]

Hi, guys !
At the end I managed to get nero working and create 528x416 PAL encode of 1h:51m movie.
Guess the bitrate ? :) 730Kbit (584Mb total)
I must say - nero AVC is what divx was promising us about 5 years ago and still can not afford :D :D
It is still a little bit not as sharp as we want on a huge bitrates, but seems to be a real king of a low ones.
Conglaturations to the Nero team !
EDIT:
If someone can tell me how to create screenshots I can post them :) (mpc may help, I will download it and try)

[chilledoutuk]

just use showtime to grab screen shots!

[jedillwag]

Originally posted by Andrey
If someone can tell me how to create screenshots I can post them :) (mpc may help, I will download it and try)

Andrey

In Nero Showtime player you can right click while playing or paused. It captures the frame to clipboard or file.

To all

Is or can one of you codec genius make a simple how to guide on the new AVC.
Like this one
www.doom9.org/nerodigital.htm

I know it is the same way of doing as before with h.263, but you guys are over my head with the new settings (not that hard to do, I know).

What I am looking for is the best way possible to back up a DVD to Nero digital, and have my files ready for the future network players.

For example
4.3 Gig DVD ----> to ----> Nero MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
DD -------------> to ----> AAC 5.1 audio (HE or LC 128K or 256K)
Stereo audio ---> to ----> AAC (HE or LC 128K or 256K)
Subtitles ------> to ----> MP4 Subtitles (English)

Options
I just followed the guide before, and I was very happy with the results.
??????

Results
1 Gig to 1.5 Gig file
Best over all Picture quality (I do not have a trained eye)
Best over all Sound quality (I do not have a trained ear)
Fastest available recode time for AVC/H.264

What do you guys think, stupid?
Thanks so much for all your help.
Jedillwag

[calinb]

Originally posted by Manao
It has instead to use ffmpeg, which is able to decode avc / h264, as far as b-frames & weighted prediction aren't enabled. Really? If I leave the weighted prediction box checked, VLC seems to be able to play the file. It seems only CABAC and b-frames must be unchecked to enable VLC playback--though I haven't looked at the VLC playback output all that closely yet.

If I use the Nero DSFs for playback, which settings will minimize CPU load on playback? (Should I uncheck Macroblock?/ use 1 reference frame?) 1280x720 playback from encodings of HD source sure keeps the CPU busy!

Thanks for the usage hints, Manao

[chilledoutuk]

well on the latest dev build cabac is decoded fine. weighted prediction decoding problems will only show if its being used much i did one video it was fine then one a another music video there was blocks breaking and floating every where. Bidirectional prediction is likely to be suported soon by fmpeg.

[Zalbar]

Originally posted by davegould
Selecting 'Recode DVDs and Videos to Nero Digital' then Import Titles, I can select all the VOBs ripped by DVDDecrypter, but Recode encodes them into multiple MP4s. Is there a way around this or do I need one big VOB? If you ripped just the main film in IFO mode with, say, DVD Decrypter for use with gordian knot, then do this:

Use VOBEdit to join the VOB files to proper DVD standard. If you follow the instructions on the VOBEdit website, it will give you a sequence of 1 GB VOBs. That's fine.

Then use IFOEdit with the default options and 'create IFOs', this will parse your VOBs and create all the proper files in the video_ts folder.

Recode will then recognize your movie properly when you choose the Main Movie option and pick your video_ts folder.


I recommend doing it this way, because I tried using vobmerge to join them all together into one big file, and recode had trouble with most of them when using the DVDs and Videos option.

[Omni]

well i've to praise avc a bit again because at least for cartoons the quality is really nice and the detailloss isn't really visible. maybe i'll put up a comparision between wmv9,xvid,divx and neros avc concerning anime encodes.

[IgorC]

i remembered that i had some samples of Ateme H.264(beta4) of Sagitarie´s test. So I tried to comparate beta4 and realese.
i tried the same settings that Sagitarie used (and also one couple of others setings.) But it seems that beta4 has a little more intelligent bitrate modulation. Beta4 is more balanced (more accurate) to give bitrate for low&how motion.

[Omni]

being able to set some kind of bitratedistribution within the codec would be quite nice.
just noticed that on low bitrates (640x480x23.976 cartoon 128kbit audio and 445kbit video) keyframes are blocked and then during the next p/b-frames are getting more detailed. looks like avc tries to strictly limit the bitrate and thus the keyframe get's to small or something like that...any way to prevent this?

[Sagittaire]

H264 Ateme beta4 vs H264 Nero ... lol

http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/H264vsH264.JPG

Seem to be exactly the same codec. RC for H264 Nero seem to be little better but it's a very little modification ...


H264 Nero and anime

For anime (and only for anime) IMO visual quality is better with high inloop deblock level (4 for example) ...

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Sagittaire
H264 Ateme beta4 vs H264 Nero ... lol
Seem to be exactly the same codec. RC for H264 Nero seem to be little better but it's a very little modification ...


You're absolutely right ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

As a matter of interest, how many "NeroDigital Team" people do we have on the Doom9 forum now?


Cheers

[Clock]

Okay, so one basic question: which version are you all using?

'Cause the visionexpress-file that was mirrored somewhere earlier this thread, only included a Recode SE Version, which seems to lack nearly everything...

So I'd like to know which version would be up to date (for example to have the ability to (un)check CABAC)
Or maybe it's just called totally different in the german version?

Thank guys, Clock

[CruNcher]

both aiming for the same filesize/bitrate ?
would also reflect my own testings (high bitrates 900 kbps) same resolution infact the only difference is less ringin and more details
but the price you pay for this is alot of time (speed) im not sure if everyone wants to pay it (on slower machines) :(

[jedillwag]

My apologies
I think I made a mistake of about 500Meg. I will do it all again and repost the results.

Now it looks like a 1 Gig H.264 recode looks just like a 1.5 Gig H.263. Both from a 4.3 DVD, not bad at all

But like I said I will redo it again and provide more information.

Sorry again.
Jedillwag

[babayaga]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
As a matter of interest, how many "NeroDigital Team" people do we have on the Doom9 forum now?


On the ATEME side 4 that have posted several messages. Two of them can still be seen on this page : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82036&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Ark

AFAIK 2-pass CBR is nonsense... [/B]

It's not :) But in the case of a video backup tool designed for a large audience, multiplying rate-control modes just adds an unnecessary complexity.

Both Recode rate-control modes are not comparable to CBR or VBR, one or 2 passes found on some codecs. Those modes impose constraints that reduce the quality.

BTW the underlying rate-control engine has much more capabilities than the 2 modes provided in Recode GUI.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks babayaga,

Currently we know of your goodself and bobololo: -

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/6678/SMD_NeroDigital_Team.jpg

But just who are the other suspects?


Cheers

[Bootsy]

Ivan Dimkovic and Menno Bakker are active at hydrogenaudio.org, which probably means that they work on Nero's AAC codec.

[chilledoutuk]

Originally posted by babayaga
BTW the underlying rate-control engine has much more capabilities than the 2 modes provided in Recode GUI. [/B]

any chance of ever having these capabilities as hidden features for us encoding gurus?

[ildocteur]

Hi guys,


After upgrading to Nero VIsion Express 3.0.1.4 I cannot encode to Nero Digital. When pressing the burn button i get an error message and the following line apears in the errorlog:

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\../directshow/DSError.h, line:120, error:Class not registered (0x80040154)
22:15:09 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit

I have checked using FilterManager that there is a lot of Nero DS filters registret and I cannot seem to figure out wich one is missing registration.

I saw another guy posing the same problem on this thread but I have not seen the solution. I have resinstalled NVE several time but no effect.


Another question btw: Will AVC H.264 encoded files play on XBMC on the Xbox. The old ND files will but is the decoding process different.

IlDoc

[chilledoutuk]

Originally posted by ildocteur


Another question btw: Will AVC H.264 encoded files play on XBMC on the Xbox. The old ND files will but is the decoding process different.

IlDoc

i have already ansered this i think earlier in the thread. alough mplayer can play avc video in a avi container it doesent seem to expect it in the .mp4 container at the moment.

cureently using the ffmpeg decoder vlc can play videos encoded without weghted prediction and bframes and so should mplayer eventually (we have been told that suport of bframes is not far away in ffmpeg so soon that will be supported as well).

As you should know xbmx is based around mplayer (why they didnt base it around vlc I dont know) therefore as soon as mplayer supports avc in .mp4's it wont be much time at all until XBMC does.

[CruNcher]

vlc still has some flaws that mplayer doesn't
and @ the time xbmc was starting vlc was in it early beginings
and mplayer more advanced today both are almost equal

[Cyberace]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk xbmx is based around mplayer (why they didnt base it around vlc I dont know) therefore as soon as mplayer supports avc in .mp4's it wont be much time at all until XBMC does.Originally posted by CruNcher vlc still has some flaws that mplayer doesn't
and @ the time xbmc was starting vlc was in it early beginings
and mplayer more advanced today both are almost equal Not entirely true, real reason is that MPlayer was (and still is) much more efficient in using the limited resources available on a standard Xbox, MPlayer gives more FPS with the Xbox slow CPU (Intel 733Mhz PIII x86) and runs much better with the little memory available (64MB shared system/graphics), ...in fact MPLayer's mission-statement is that MPlayer should always be the fastest and decode most A/V codecs of all UNIX players, (so I'm sure full H.264 support will come to it eventualy but it does help if you encurage them and FFmpeg ;)). PS! One developer on Team-XBMC recently tried porting VCL to Xbox but gave up because VideoLAN is designed to use too much system memory.

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
As a matter of interest, how many "NeroDigital Team" people do we have on the Doom9 forum now?

I am wondering the same thing...
I know several of them, but perhaps there are a few others that are working on it that I am not yet aware of...

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
I am wondering the same thing...

I give you a clue : they are located in France, near Paris.

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Originally posted by babayaga
I give you a clue : they are located in France, near Paris.
Good way to spot some of them :)

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
But I am not sure about all the ones working for Ahead

To the best of my knowledge, one Ahead engineer posted in this thread (his signature says so).

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Originally posted by babayaga
To the best of my knowledge, one Ahead engineer posted in this thread (his signature says so).
Well, I can count 4 Ahead people on HA and here, but there are perhaps still some hidden ones.
Anyway, we are going off topic...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
Well, I can count 4 Ahead people on HA and here, but there are perhaps still some hidden ones. There's a NeroDigital guy called j0g0 (http://forum.doom9.org/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=54560), but he's only made two posts!


Cheers

[CyberGuy]

I filled out an Ahead Software support online form about an inconsistency I noticed in Nero Recode 2, version 3.0.1.14 where I noticed the “HDTV – AVC” profile does not show anything in the Custom Profile, Low Complexity, 5.1-ch Surround Sound drop-down box and only shows 96 and 128 in the Custom Profile, High Efficiency, 5.1-ch Surround Sound drop-down box. After receiving a reply that they didn’t understand my e-mail and wanted screenshots, I sent them a couple to which they sent the following reply.

Dear valued customer,

thank you for your email and your interest in our software.

Low complexity is not compatible with 5.1 surround sound, that's why
you don't get any options over here.

Best regards

Sebastian Sonn

Technical Support

Ahead Software AG
Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad
Germany
Fax : ++49 (0)7248 911 888
http://www.nero.com

If AAC LC does not support 5.1 audio, then can someone explain why it is allowed in the “Maximum Definition – AVC” profile? I also didn’t get an answer to the differences in the HE 5.1 audio drop-down selections between the custom “HDTV – AVC” and “Maximum Definition – AVC” profiles.

[momentum]

Please help me. I can not start Nero digital on Nerorecode even though I have got all necessary plugins and serials. Unistalled and reinstalled but still the same problem. I am on Windows 2003 standard with DirectX 9.0C. What is to be done for use of Atheme enconding tool?

[nicco]

@momentum
What's your problem? Can't you get the nero digial options in recode main windown?
If so try to remove nero serial and then open recode...

[easyfab]

Here (http://ezshare.de/files-en/168664/BULLETPROOFMONK.mp4.html) is a little test file


4 Mo file / duration 1 min
The goal of my test was to see what nero/ateme h264 give at very low bitrate.
See by yourself the result :)

[JohnV]

Originally posted by CyberGuy
I filled out an Ahead Software support online form about an inconsistency I noticed in Nero Recode 2, version 3.0.1.14 where I noticed the “HDTV – AVC” profile does not show anything in the Custom Profile, Low Complexity, 5.1-ch Surround Sound drop-down box and only shows 96 and 128 in the Custom Profile, High Efficiency, 5.1-ch Surround Sound drop-down box. After receiving a reply that they didn’t understand my e-mail and wanted screenshots, I sent them a couple to which they sent the following reply.

Dear valued customer,

thank you for your email and your interest in our software.

Low complexity is not compatible with 5.1 surround sound, that's why
you don't get any options over here.

Best regards

Sebastian Sonn

Technical Support

Ahead Software AG
Im Stoeckmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad
Germany
Fax : ++49 (0)7248 911 888
http://www.nero.com

If AAC LC does not support 5.1 audio, then can someone explain why it is allowed in the “Maximum Definition – AVC” profile? I also didn’t get an answer to the differences in the HE 5.1 audio drop-down selections between the custom “HDTV – AVC” and “Maximum Definition – AVC” profiles. The audio bitrate selections of those AVC profiles (other than the maximum definition AVC profile) are a bit restricted for certain reasons. Should be more flexible in the following update releases..
Don't listen too much the answer you got from technical support on this, and of course AAC-LC supports 5.1.

[acidsex]

John,

Any idea when we can expect the export to Nero Digital from within Vision Express as it was alluded to in the Vision Express PDF help file?

[jedillwag]

Hi again

Can someone explain the resize option in the Video button.

I have a DVD Automatic setting say that is 720 x 304 resolution.

I can up convert it to a 720p native display resolution?
I think it would be 1024 x 768 right?
Would this not take the load off of my scaler in my TV, and or DVD player (hopefully someday).

One last thing I can play with the settings but does anyone know how to completely get rid of the black bars for a 16:9 with the crop options. Or is this possible to get rid of the black bars for your 16:9 tv.

Thank you so much.
Jedillwag

[iwod]

has any body try to encode in low bitrate (500k) and compare it to Snow?

I am really interested but i am on my good old laptop PIII800Mhz....

So for me even to decode snow is a problem.

[thegeby]

@jedillwag

I noted the same resolution 720x304, so you are trying to encode a 2.35:1 original. It end up as 2.368, but it is as close as you get given the "divisible by 16 rule", (which formally does not apply to AVC, but seems to be implemented here). Clearly ND seems to want square pixels. (The following is my understanding, but I remain happy to be corrected) If square pixels is a given, you would let horizontal resolution guide vertical resizing, except in the case where you show a 4:3 movie on a wide screen. So if your screen is 1024x768 > 1024/720=1.42222 > 1.4222x304=432.36. Rounding to the nearest number divisible by 16 gives 432 > final resolution 1024x432 which give an aspect ratio of 2.37:1, or sightly stretched.

The equivalent for a true 16:9 movie would be 1024x576. All numbers a based on a 4:3 screen with a resolution of 1024x768. If you have an LCD TV, the 32 inch models usually have square pixels at 1364x768, so then calculate on the basis of 1360 horizontal.

[skal]

Hi all,


iirc, some the bitstreams produced by the beta version
raised errors when fed with the ref software. Something
like:

* warning: zero_byte shall exist (at every frame)
* Found NALU w/ forbidden_bit set, bit error? Let's try...
* Found NALU type 0, len 0 undefined, ignore NALU, moving on
* POCs becoming negative after an IDR.
(and eventually core dumped).

Could someone try demuxing a Recode 2.2 AVC bitstream and feed
it into jm92?
(or post a sample here...)

thanks!
Skal

[JohnV]

Originally posted by acidsex
John,

Any idea when we can expect the export to Nero Digital from within Vision Express as it was alluded to in the Vision Express PDF help file? It has been delayed a bit until sometime after the new year.

[timeismoney]

I tried latest NVE 30114 and NBR 6603, well with both of them, the NDParser.ax will cause 3ivx Media Splitter, AAC Parser, Moonlight MP4 Demultiplexer & dicas Codec broken and unusable! Well at the same time Nero's codec and demuxer's compatibility is not good enough, many no-avc common mp4s can't be demuxed correctly, and with poor compatibility to other Videc Codec (But to Audio Codec is good).

All the Broken Codecs will be be usable after uninstall Nero, or unreg NDParser.ax!

This time Nero has gone too far!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by timeismoney
I tried latest NVE 30114 and NBR 6603, well with both of them, the NDParser.ax will cause 3ivx Media Splitter, AAC Parser, Moonlight MP4 Demultiplexer & dicas Codec broken and unusable! Well at the same time Nero's codec and demuxer's compatibility is not good enough, many no-avc common mp4s can't be demuxed correctly, and with poor compatibility to other Videc Codec (But to Audio Codec is good).

All the Broken Codecs will be be usable after uninstall Nero, or unreg NDParser.ax!

This time Nero has gone too far! I tried doing something similar to what your doing now many months ago!

I could not get Nero's parser to work with other companies audio and video filters filters. Or Nero's audio and video filters to work with other companies parsers!

Thankfully, I've found this current releases filters work very well with other direct-show media players. That said, it would be perfect if we were able to select multiple audio streams and view subtitles, using Nero's filters in other media players too!


Cheers

[timeismoney]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I tried doing something similar to what your doing now many months ago!

I could not get Nero's parser to work with other companies audio and video filters filters. Or Nero's audio and video filters to work with other companies parsers!

Thankfully, I've found this current releases filters work very well with other direct-show media players. That said, it would be perfect if we were able to select multiple audio streams and view subtitles, using Nero's filters in other media players too!


Cheers In fact, at least this version's NDParser.ax can connect to some other Audio Decoders (CoreAAC and ffdshow w/ff_libfaad2.dll) very well, and can connect to ffdshow video decoder (use libavcodec, but use xvid1 will meet some problem), too

Moonlight MP4 Demuxer can connect to Nero Video Decoder, well I disabled ffdshow's h264 support, then play some AVI/MKV with h264 Audio, Nero Video Decoder worked fine...

About multiple audio streams and subtitles, use nero showtime is OK, but failed in MPC...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by timeismoney
In fact, at least this version's NDParser.ax can connect to some other Audio Decoders (CoreAAC and ffdshow w/ff_libfaad2.dll) very well, and can connect to ffdshow video decoder (use libavcodec, but use xvid1 will meet some problem), tooThis is true!

I've been asking the NeroDigital guys to allow this for many months. Prior to this release, NeAudio.ax would only work with Windows Media Player 9/10 (and ShowTime of course).

Originally posted by timeismoney
About multiple audio streams and subtitles, use nero showtime is OK, but failed in MPC... Yes... this was the point I was trying to make!


Cheers

[timeismoney]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
NeAudio.ax would only work with Windows Media Player 9/10 (and ShowTime of course). Well I noticed that when I play a XviD + MP3's MP4 via MPC, the Nero Audio Decoder does work:rolleyes: of course use NDParser.ax as demuxer...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by timeismoney
Well I noticed that when I play a XviD + MP3's MP4 via MPC, the Nero Audio Decoder does work:rolleyes: of course use NDParser.ax as demuxer... Yes, I noticed this too!

Such steams do however still play in Windows Media Player 9/10 using NeAudio.ax (and NDParser.ax).

I run a PC with multiple boot drives. One one of my boots I only have Nero's filters installed, so it's very easy to work out which direct-show based media players work better than others, with Nero's filters.


Cheers

[Andrey]

>>In Nero Showtime player you can right click while playing or
>>paused. It captures the frame to clipboard or file.
I'm a stubborn, definitely, but right click just opens a fu$%#ng menu for me, no less, no more :devil:
Ok, promised pics, taken by mpc (original aspect):
Shot1 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/1.png)
Shot2 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/2.png)
Shot3 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/3.png)
Shot4 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/4.png)
Shot5 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/5.png)
Shot6 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/6.png)
Shot7 (http://sirgrey.sbn.bz/videoTest/7.png)

[JohnV]

Originally posted by JohnV
It has been delayed a bit until sometime after the new year. Well it looks like the next update will include Nero Digital export in Nero Vision Express. :)

[krackato]

Originally posted by JohnV
Well it looks like the next update will include Nero Digital export in Nero Vision Express. :)

What does that mean? I thought you were already able to export Nero Digital movie files using Recode2 in Nero Vision Express.

I apologize in advance for my obvious ineptitude.

[acidsex]

He means from the Vision Express program itself. VE is different from Recode.

Nonetheless, this is good news.

[bond]

Originally posted by JohnV
Well it looks like the next update will include Nero Digital export in Nero Vision Express. :) does this mean that cutting, appending aso.. of already existing .mp4 files will be possible in vision express?

[acidsex]

@bond: I sure hope so. It would be nice to use recode to back up at the highest quality and then be able to make a DVD from it later on. This would be pretty advantageous for the independent film maker like myself.

[netchris]

Cutting and Appending options are indeed a must have!
I hope they listen there at atemes laboratories ;)

[gozu]

Whenever I try to launch an encode, I get a log with this error:

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\../directshow/DSError.h, line:120, error:Class not registered (0x80040154)
02:09:56 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit

I'm trying to encode an unprotected vob to Standard AVC to a file on the HD.

A couple of people have complained about this same issue but I couldn't find any solution to it in this thread. Did I miss something?

Any help would be appreciated.

[McoreD]

Originally posted by bond
does this mean that cutting, appending aso.. of already existing .mp4 files will be possible in vision express?
that will be so useful without the need of re-encoding. I am very much looking forward to these features in Nero Vision Express.
Nero Recode for ripping DVDs to Nero Digital, Nero Vision Express for editting Nero Digital files.

[Sirber]

Why can I only do DVD recompression with Recode? :scared:

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Sirber

Why can I only do DVD recompression with Recode?

Why can I only import videos (but no audio files) in Recode ???


Bye

[dbzgundam]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Why can I only import videos (but no audio files) in Recode ???


Bye

I dislike that as well. I've simply been using AVS to read audio files. :rolleyes:

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Why can I only import videos (but no audio files) in Recode ??? This would certainly make Recode2 more complete!

Maybe they could throw in an external muxer/de-muxer too!


Cheers

[Beave]

Hi,
I just tried out Recode 2 with AVC using Avisynth to reencode a 720p Transport Stream. It wasn't easy to find out how to use the 5.1 sound in recode, but i managed by using besweet to demux each channel to a seperate wav and importing it back to the avs file.
The first time I used the internal cropping of recode which did not work somehow. The black borders were still there. But because of this I noticed too little saturation in the final encode:

http://www.f4.fhtw-berlin.de/people/s0342232/KillBill_h264_1.jpg

Both screenshots were taken in Zoom Player. The lower shot was taken using the Nero DVD Decoder in ZP. The above shot was taken from the avs file. The script was:

LoadPlugin("C:\DVD\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\DVD\AutoGK\filters\decomb.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.d2v")
movie = SelectEven(movie).Decimate(5)
movie = crop(movie,0,96,-0,-96)
l = WAVSource("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.HDTV AC3 T01 5_1ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms-FL.wav")
c = WAVSource("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.HDTV AC3 T01 5_1ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms-C.wav")
r = WAVSource("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.HDTV AC3 T01 5_1ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms-FR.wav")
rl = WAVSource("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.HDTV AC3 T01 5_1ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms-SL.wav")
rr = WAVSource("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.HDTV AC3 T01 5_1ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms-SR.wav")
s = WAVSource("E:\Kill.Bill.Volume1.720p.HDTV AC3 T01 5_1ch 384Kbps DELAY 0ms-LFE.wav")
audio = MergeChannels(l,c,r,rl,rr,s)
audiodub(movie,audio)


Any suggestions how to correct the color problem? Is this a bug in recode?

I used the maximum definition AVC profile in recode and turned all the options on, deblocking = -2, cartoon mode (tried with normal mode as well -> same thing there), psycho = high, vector search -256 to 256, GOP = 2, 300, 2

[jigc]

Originally posted by netchris
Cutting and Appending options are indeed a must have!
I hope they listen there at atemes laboratories ;)


i 2nd it. virtuldub keystrokes as well: home (markin), end (markout) and delete (cut) :)

[babayaga]

Originally posted by jigc
i 2nd it. virtuldub keystrokes as well: home (markin), end (markout) and delete (cut) :)
We will not support AVI as a container for MPEG-4 since it introduces too many compliancy issues, a much larger overhead and needs big hacks to support relatively simple features.

Nevertheless, a MP4 editing tool is needed :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by babayaga
We will not support AVI as a container for MPEG-4 since it introduces too many compliancy issues, a much larger overhead and needs big hacks to support relatively simple features. Thanks for posting this comment.

It's music to us MP4 lovers ears :D


Cheers

[Wilbert]

@Beave,

Any suggestions how to correct the color problem? Is this a bug in recode?
Try ColorMatrix.

[Beave]

I did try Colormatrix() as well. Only a little bit different. The color is still less saturated. I tried XVID and it looks better there, but not the same as the source.

Do your encodes have the same colors as the source? Espially reds are good to spot the difference.

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Beave
Color mismatch
I'm not sure since I did not work on DS filters but this looks like a color space conversion issue. There is no bug in Recode about colors (or none we have spotted :))
This could be related to your video card (types of overlay supported) or to the overlay mixer used. In some cases, a silly color space conversion is done before the rendering mixer.

[pogo stick]

I finally had some time to try this new hot stuff. I am really impressed! Great encoder! GUI is looking good and nicely! Congratulations! :)
But there are problems with the whole encoding/playback solution, that preventing it from been more popular. I hope they can be fixed.
Recode is missing prefiltering, something like denoising is necessary. I know there is avs input (which I used) but then it will be a little harder to use chapters (set by hands) and a lot harder to use subtitles (I couldn't).
As I understand, Recode is using DShow for encoding, so maybe an option of using FFDShow for filtering will be a good idea?
What do you think about something like separate inputs for encoding: video from avs; audios from ac3, wav or already prepared mp4; subs from vobs; chapters from txt file (there are a lot of tools to make them)? Or is it a muxer's job? ;)
Also using avs input for anamorphic encoding is problem. I used Hhanh's AR changer and I would be lost without it.
Recode's crop is not working for me. I just wanted to crop away black bars and to not resize. But black bars stayed. That is another reason for me to use avs input.
Would be great to have an ability to set own defaults of Recode's parameters and to start encoding jobs from command line.
I liked the idea of pause button, but it seems like it didn't work the way I thought about it. It just prevented starting of second pass before I pushed it again instead of pausing encoding.
Also would be nice to have an option of making separate passes.
The thing that really bothered me is that second pass occupy overlay (for preview?) and my favorite tv program DScaler can not be started. Or if I watch movie or tv while making first, then second pass can not be started and Recode is freezing. Maybe something is wrong with my graphic card? Is there solution?
DShow muxer in Graphedit didn't work with HE-AAC as already reported. I used mp4box for muxing and I would be lost without it.
I tried adding VobSubs with muxer as JoeB and Bond suggested in containers part of forum, but in my case Graphedit was always crashing.
DS playback filters are limited in one way or another when not using ShowTime:
Parser can not handle more then one audio, subtitles can not be seen, audio decoder can not play 6ch HE-AAC right from the start and chapter 1 is missing (maybe MPC's fault).
It doesn't seem like fortuity. I like ShowTime but I think that this is not a very good way to make people to like it too.
Also what do you think about offering a playback package for people who just want to watch and not to encode? It will also be a very popular move.
I am not even talking about mp4 editing program which could help to choose container to doubters.
Combine quality and flexibility, while DivX are doing strange things! :)
I know there are Ahead representatives on this forum. What do you think about it? Hope that I am not too loud or too boring. :)

[708145]

Originally posted by pogo stick
As I understand, Recode is using DShow for encoding, so maybe an option of using FFDShow for filtering will be a good idea?


Is it really using DShow? So which other app can use it to encode?
Premiere?

Originally posted by pogo stick
Would be great to have an ability to set own defaults of Recode's parameters and to start encoding jobs from command line.


I second that. A CLI would be great!

bis besser,
T0B1A5

[Beave]

ok, I started to look into the playback problem. Somehow Media Player Classic (MPC) is showing the right colors. But Showtime and Zoom Player give me wrong colors. VLC was totally screwed up.
I tried all the different renderers in ZP, but they all have that color problem.

[pogo stick]

Originally posted by 708145
So which other app can use it to encode?
As far as I know, no other program can use it. :(

[Beave]

Well, there seems to be something wrong with my ZP setup. Finally got the standard "Video Renderer" working instead of the DirectX9. Colors are fine now.

Playback of 720p is extremely demanding on my 2800+ Athlon 64. It uses 90% of my CPU. Sometimes even 100%. Should I turn any options off during encoding to ease on decoding? I guess the decoding filters will be optimized in the future for AVC. XVID and WMV9 use far less.

Is it normal that "Nero DVD Decoder" is chosen as video playback filter?

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Beave
Playback of 720p is extremely demanding on my 2800+ Athlon 64. It uses 90% of my CPU. Sometimes even 100%. Should I turn any options off during encoding to ease on decoding? I guess the decoding filters will be optimized in the future for AVC. XVID and WMV9 use far less.

Is it normal that "Nero DVD Decoder" is chosen as video playback filter?
XviD And wm9 use far less because the decoding complexity is far lower than AVC. To give a rough idea its about twice more complex than ASP when you use qpel and turn-on post-processing.

To ease decoding in HD, you may disable partitions (they are not very usefull at those resolutions anyway). If it still does not fit on your PC, you may disable deblocking and then lastly CABAC.

And yes it's normal that "Nero DVD Decoder" is chosen since it carries all video decoders.

[Beave]

babayaga, thanks a lot. That helps a lot.
Hope you don't mind if I ask: What would be your recommended settings for 720p HDTV sources? Concidering quality or maybe future standalone player compatibility.
For example, should I change the defaults of the "Maximum Definition" profile in the GOP Section? I was using 2, 300, 2.
For my next encode I will probably leave everything on except partitions in the encoder part.

[bond]

Originally posted by 708145
Is it really using DShow? So which other app can use it to encode?
Premiere?i very much doubt that its usable in any other app than recode, as it also doesnt work in graphedit with the latest versions (earlier version did work in graphedit)

[708145]

Originally posted by bond
i very much doubt that its usable in any other app than recode, as it also doesnt work in graphedit with the latest versions (earlier version did work in graphedit)

:( So no alternative GUI in sight.
The graphedit "hack" was too complicated for mainstream use anyways.

bis besser,
T0B1A5

[babayaga]

Originally posted by Beave
babayaga, thanks a lot. That helps a lot.
Hope you don't mind if I ask: What would be your recommended settings for 720p HDTV sources? Concidering quality or maybe future standalone player compatibility.
For example, should I change the defaults of the "Maximum Definition" profile in the GOP Section? I was using 2, 300, 2.
For my next encode I will probably leave everything on except partitions in the encoder part.
For compatibility with standalones, I'll wait a few days since the first chips are going to be released and tested. There might be some differences between the intial annoucements and the reality of available chips, especially in HD.

Except if you have a "pathological" sequence (for instance slide-shows), there is no need to modify the GOP structure.

[Mindphaser]

New Nero Vision Express released. Nero Recode updated to v2.2.6.4

ftp://ftp4.us.nero.com/NVE30118.exe

[slavickas]

can somebody test if "custom Resize" is working in latest ver, for me it just sets to 0 :(

[Irwin]

What's new in Nero Recode 2.2.6.4 ? Parametric stereo is finally
available?
It's faster? (this a version used in "latest codec comparison"?)

[Shinobu]

any mirror ?
i try to download it a lots of time and alway crash or stop before the end of download.

++

[IgorC]

Originally posted by Shinobu
any mirror ?
i try to download it a lots of time and alway crash or stop before the end of download.

++

there are some mirrors in the official site

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by Shinobu
any mirror ?
i try to download it a lots of time and alway crash or stop before the end of download.

++

http://httpdl.nero.com/NVE30118.exe

until now no changelog available... http://www.nero.com/us/Release_Notes_Reloaded.html

but that's just a question of time ;)

[Sharktooth]

I think they fixed the audio sync issue...

[calinb]

Originally posted by pogo stick
I liked the idea of pause button, but it seems like it didn't work the way I thought about it. It just prevented starting of second pass before I pushed it again instead of pausing encoding.
Also, has anyone noticed that you can't "sleep" or "hibernate" a PC that's running Recode2? It's the only encoding ap I've used that won't permit it. If your laptop forces a hibernate because it's running out of juice, you've just lost your encoding job :(

Originally posted by Beave Playback of 720p is extremely demanding on my 2800+ Athlon 64. It uses 90% of my CPU. Sometimes even 100%. Beave, For comparison sake, are you doing true 720p (60fps) or are your encoding 1280x720 @ 30 or 24 fps? I find that a 400MHz FSB Athlon 3000+ Barton can barely do 1280x720x24 fps, when all the mpeg tools options are used -- if there's not too much motion.

[peteag]

My custom resize-mode switches to 0 automaticaly. No! I want to backup a DVD now ...

FOUND something!

When setting a custom resize, just follow these steps:

- select deactivate
- then select custom resize and change ONE not BOTH
- DO NOT TRY TO CHANGE THE OTHER VALUE!
- LEAVE WINDOW WITH JUST CLICKING ENTER

Do not prove it anytime, just encode, then view the result.

This is a very strange bug in recode. Hope it will fix in a shortly coming release.

[Beave]

@calinb
Yes, I encoded at 1280x720@24fps. Leaving Partions off did not help that much, but who knows, maybe it is using less 100% now. Pans are still jirky sometimes. Is Postprocessing off by default? Let's see if my 3200+ Barton performs better than the 2800+ 64bit.

Hmm, I like the deblocking part. The next step to reducing playback demands would be turning off deblocking...
720p AVC is definatly only for extremely fast PCs, but I very much like the quality. 10GB of 720p .ts to 4,36 GB .mp4. Looks great.

[acidsex]

any chance somone has a bit torrent of Nero 6.6.05 and NVE 3.0.1.8?

[calinb]

Originally posted by Beave
10GB of 720p .ts to 4,36 GB .mp4. Looks great. Hmmm, I can't get any of my huge files to play past about the 4 GB point:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87877

NTFS and all my other huge files play just fine (DivX, XVID, Real, etc.) I haven't tried the Nero update that just came out today, though. Any ideas for me? Thanks!

[plonk420]

Originally posted by acidsex
any chance somone has a bit torrent of Nero 6.6.05 and NVE 3.0.1.8?

i'd be more than glad to do it, but i don't think they'd approve of it. (they don't even approve of people hosting the ASPI layer offsite) plus i'm still download NVE as we speak. just use getright or some other download manager and let 'er chug away overnight

[daveidmx]

I've just installed today's release.

Looks like NeAudio.ax once again does not play well with others. :( I've now lost the ability to play m4a and mp4/Nero Digital in ZoomPlayer (or anything I have except Showtime and WMP9).

I'm sure there must be a business-related reason for refusing to let people use the media player of their choice. Does anyone know what this might be?

Confused in Connecticut,
David

[acidsex]

I managed to grab all the Nero files, only VisionExpress was slow as heck.

Maybe the Nero guys on the forum can comment on torrent hosting and if its allowed for future versions.

[acidsex]

I am a little disappointed with this relase thus far. I was seriously hoping for the ability to export Nero Digital from Vision Express timeline but for the second month in a row, it didnt make it in there.

Can anyone from Nero please give a good guess when the export to ND will be available in Vision Express?

[neo_anderson]

so, does this recode 2 release solve the audio not-in-sync issue?

[peteag]

I don't realy know if my machine is to slow (P4 2,8 GHz HT, 512 MB-RAM, Geforce 5600SE) or this showtime-release is something unstable. I've encoded a full-lenght movie yesterday and wanted to play it back 3 times faster im showtime. Seems like the Windows Media Player playback on a Pentium MMX :)

Also a bug?

And: 2-pass encode is something wrong in the beginning. The first pass started like the second pass (5-7fps at highest quality) but after a little while it rised up to 26-27fps for analysing.

-||- ?

[Doom9]

And: 2-pass encode is something wrong in the beginning. The first pass started like the second pass (5-7fps at highest quality) but after a little while it rised up to 26-27fps for analysing.
Not a bug, it's a feature all the people who read page1 of the codec comparison already know about ;) The first pass (and only that) gets faster over time.

[peteag]

my mistake ...:D

[kappa]

Originally posted by slavickas
can somebody test if "custom Resize" is working in latest ver, for me it just sets to 0 :(

Downloaded and gave it a shot.

Custom resize doesn't work for me either, it sets to zero whatever value I put there. Also, the Subtitles tab has disappeared. I think the chapters button is gone too, can't remember because I uninstalled and went back to 2.2.6.1. Seems like something was rushed.

I didn't test if the very annoying second pass overlay usage issue (even with preview disabled, I cannot launch TV app (AIW), record etc) has been fixed.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by daveidmx
Looks like NeAudio.ax once again does not play well with others. :( I've now lost the ability to play m4a and mp4/Nero Digital in ZoomPlayer (or anything I have except Showtime and WMP9).

I'm sure there must be a business-related reason for refusing to let people use the media player of their choice. Does anyone know what this might be? I can still play "audio only" .m4a and .mp4 in MediaPlayer Clasic... So Nero's audio filter still seems to work outside ShowTime and WMP9/10 players!


Cheers

[Mei]

I hope Nero will release a Decoder only package one day... ;)

[Sharktooth]

... installed the new NBR and NVE and still can play encoded files in MPC (even 5.1 aac).

[kurt]

... i have no problems in zoomplayer with nerofilter.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by kappa
Custom resize doesn't work for me either, it sets to zero whatever value I put there. Also, the Subtitles tab has disappeared. I think the chapters button is gone too, can't remember because I uninstalled and went back to 2.2.6.1. Seems like something was rushed. Agreed.

I certainly does appear that "subtitling" and "chapter point setting" have gone :eek:

Can any of the NeroDigital guys confirm what's happened please?


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

this version is b0rked.

[iapir]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Agreed.

I certainly does appear that "subtitling" and "chapter point setting" have gone :eek:

Can any of the NeroDigital guys confirm what's happened please?


Cheers

Maybe they decided to support only standardised features ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by iapir
Maybe they decided to support only standardised features ? I hope not!

I assume, neither of these features are supported in the Siemssen SCO 500 ND. Which, as far as I know, is the only stand-alone player, currently covered by NeroDigital's "Certification".

But don't forget chapter selection does work in other "software" media players, even if "subtitles" don't.


Cheers

[dvd_maniac]

But don't forget chapter selection does work in other "software" media players, even if "subtitles" don't.

I can't get them to work in ShowTime either. I can move the chapter slider but hitting the hotkeys for Previous/Next or even the buttons doesn't work for me.

Also, have they done anything about the audio volume in encodes? I find ND to be way too low. Start playing one of these files I have to turn my 5.1 speakers almost all the way up, then if I forget and put on another file type or LiveTV and the house shakes...

Last... Can somebody post some speed comparisons between this release and the last.

Last...last... Is this the version used in the Codec Comparison?

[IgorC]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
I can't get them to work in ShowTime either. I can move the chapter slider but hitting the hotkeys for Previous/Next or even the buttons doesn't work for me.

Also, have they done anything about the audio volume in encodes? I find ND to be way too low. Start playing one of these files I have to turn my 5.1 speakers almost all the way up, then if I forget and put on another file type or LiveTV and the house shakes...

Last... Can somebody post some speed comparisons between this release and the last.

Last...last... Is this the version used in the Codec Comparison?

yes it´s version ND MP of doom9´s comparision.

did you read the news here : http://www.doom9.org/ ?

[dvd_maniac]

Hi IgorC

did you read the news here : http://www.doom9.org/ ?

Yes I read the news.

There's no changelog yet, but hopefully the latest AVC encoder based on the core I used in the codec comparison is now integrated in Recode2.

It states that Hopefully it made it in this release.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
I can't get them to work in ShowTime either. I can move the chapter slider but hitting the hotkeys for Previous/Next or even the buttons doesn't work for me. All my NeroDigital encodes generated (prior to this release) still chapter seek in ShowTime and MediaPlayer Classic

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
Also, have they done anything about the audio volume in encodes? I find ND to be way too low. Start playing one of these files I have to turn my 5.1 speakers almost all the way up, then if I forget and put on another file type or LiveTV and the house shakes....I must admit this is a bit of a pain. When I play NeroDigital encodes in software (and view them on my TV - via DVI), the 6Ch "analogue" audio pumped thru' my DSS amp is very low indeed


Cheers

[dvd_maniac]

Has anybody from Nero posted anything on the audio? Is it in the list of things to fix?

I wish I could get some feedback on the speed comparison. I can't download it yet to try it out myself.

[daveidmx]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I can still play "audio only" .m4a and .mp4 in MediaPlayer Clasic... So Nero's audio filter still seems to work outside ShowTime and WMP9/10 players!

Hmmm... well that's great news!

Um...

Could you check for me your NeAudio.ax version number?

[kappa]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I must admit this is a bit of a pain. When I play NeroDigital encodes in software (and view them on my TV - via DVI), the 6Ch "analogue" audio pumped thru' my DSS amp is very low indeed

This is one of the reasons that a separate decoding solutions is missed, Showtime has no equalizer to boost the volume. Ffdshow has. My biggest problem is playing back mp4 movies on my laptop, it's almost unwatchable without headphones!

[acidsex]

I get the same thing as everyone else when tryign to custom resize, it all changes to 0. Hopefully this will be fixed immediately.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by daveidmx
Could you check for me your NeAudio.ax version number? Sure....

http://tinypic.com/18d5it

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by kappa
This is one of the reasons that a separate decoding solutions is missed, Showtime has no equalizer to boost the volume. Ffdshow has. My biggest problem is playing back mp4 movies on my laptop, it's almost unwatchable without headphones! Prior to having a full version of Nero6, I used to generate my 6Ch AAC-LC or HE streams using Foobar2000 from a ripped AC3 stream. And mux them into the MP4 container using mp4UI!

I still have some of these encodes and sufficed to say, the audio level is higher!

Foobar2000 is able to offer third party tools such as "equalisers and boosters".... so it might indeed be time for Recode2 to offer something similar!


Cheers

[peteag]

*em*, sorry for me being to fast but ...

I encode a full lenght movie at the moment with the asp-codec of recode and it shows me 100fps (extraquality and all over the best settings) in the first pass - prior it was just 37fps.

????

Oh my god. Is this true?

I know it's been written in the codec comparison but I wanted to post it here for a very positive change. nice. 2nd pass works closely to the older release. But the chapter- and resize settings are very silly to me, also the missing subtitles.

[daveidmx]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Sure....

<IMG>...</IMG>


Cheers

Could not connect to remote server. :scared: I'll try again later.

[daveidmx]

@kappa et al

I have AC3Filter in my graph when using ZoomPlayer. I can set its DRC and Gain controls to hear stuff beautifully on my laptop. (Another reason it's important to me to be able to use other players.)

[peteag]

Question to AVC-Codec.

Does it use an adaptive algorithm to place the b-frames into the videostream or is it constant?

[babayaga]

Originally posted by peteag
Question to AVC-Codec.
Does it use an adaptive algorithm to place the b-frames into the videostream or is it constant?
Yes it's adaptive.

[kappa]

Originally posted by daveidmx
[i]I have AC3Filter in my graph when using ZoomPlayer.

Without using all the features of the AVC profiles, so that ffdshow plays it (the video), right?

[daveidmx]

@kappa

Nope, I use the full AVC features and play back using Nero decoder filters in Zoomplayer.

I have things registered so that--
AVC uses Nero filters, and
ASP uses ffdshow

Audio always goes through AC3Filter so I can correct the audio levels.

[kappa]

@daveidmx
I don't know exactly how to do that (automatically - not really familiar with ZP), I'll start tinkering with it. No subtitles and chapters though, right?

[peteag]

Changelog (german)

Bei der Hautapplikation Nero Burning ROM 6 (Update Paket 1) gab es eine Reihe von Bugfixes. So wurde beispielsweise ein "On the Fly"-Kopierproblem bei DVDs behoben. DVD-RAMs sollten sich künftig problemlos komplett löschen lassen. Das Brennen von ASF-Dateien führte in der Vorgängerversion noch teilweise zu einer Fehlermeldung. Auch dieses Problem wurde gefixt. Die weiteren Änderungen:

* Die Booktype-Einstellungen werden in der Programmoberfläche besser erklärt
* Re-encoding von Mpeg-1-Dateien zu (S)-VCD wurde verbessert
* Ein Problem beim Wechsel von Nero Burning ROM 6 zu NeroExpress wurde behoben
* Beim Ändern des "Volume create"-Datums kommt es nicht mehr zum Absturz.

Nero hat uns mittlerweile auch die Release Notes für die neue InCD-Version zukommen lassen. Demnach wurde dem Packet-writing-Program als neue Funktion ein Auto-Format-Feature spendiert (ab Windows 2000). Zur Sicherheit der Daten beim Formatieren mit UDF 2.50 lassen sich nun auch die Meta-Daten-Dateien duplizieren. Darüber hinaus gab es zahlreiche Bugfixes. Weitere Änderung: Windows NT 4.0 und Windows 95 unterstützt die Software nicht mehr.

[daveidmx]

@kappa

You are correct, sir. While I have not personally tested to confirm, I think I've heard that chapters and subs don't work outside of ShowTime. A rub, to be sure.


Perhaps, as someone suggested earlier, the reason chapters and subs have disappeared in the latest release is that Those Crazy Kids are working on an MPEG-4 compliant version of those features? That would indeed be super-fan!

[kappa]

The changelogs for all the new versions are already available at

http://www.ahead.de/en/Nero_6_Reloaded_Release_Notes.html

@daveidmx

That thought crossed my mind too, it makes sense. I wonder though, if that is the case, how long it will take for an actual implementation.

[daveidmx]

@kappa

I'm only holding my breath 'till GMT-23:09 :D

[dvd_maniac]

@Kappa
The changelogs for all the new versions are already available at

That page is not updated with the newest version of Recode. The only thing on that page that looks updated is Nero Main program.

Can anyone translate the German changelogs for us please?

[daveidmx]

@SeeMoreDigital

Aha!

1.0.4.36 worked for me as well, but the update installed version 1.0.4.42 (I think. Have to confirm later, but i know it was forty-something.)

Forty-something won't play with anything else. Perhaps your NeAudio.ax was locked when the installer was trying to update and you got stuck with the old version?

[kappa]

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
That page is not updated with the newest version of Recode.
I'm completely baffled! A couple of hours ago, I had clicked on the 3.0.1.14 link and it had a 3.0.1.18 paragraph in it. The changelog was only one line, something very trivial, can't remember what, no mention of new builds, AVC etc. They probably pulled it down.
Anyway, the German changelog posted, refers to Nero Burning ROM only. You can find the english version for that at the afformentioned page. On their German page (substitute the en with de in the address) you can't even find that .

[justinkwaugh]

I have massive problems with audio sync when I encode using nero recode 2. I'm encoding hdtv extracted from my tivo. It is 1280x1088 mpeg2 with 5.1 ac3 sound. Basically the movie encodes, and the video is fine, but the audio ends up getting more and more behind the video until at the end, it is 30 min or so behind.

Here is the explanation of the problem according to the guy who wrote the tivo extraction app:

DTV uses TFF and RFF in a weird way (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203601&postcount=708)

It seems this is similar to the problems others were mentioning. Is there any workaround using avisynth to solve the problem?

[Lugia]

Hi there

I'm using Recode 2.2.6.4 but included in NVE 3.0.1.18 to do AVC, but won't give me any AVC option when selecting the encoding options, it just gives the normal profile (ASP I suposse)

Could anyone lend me a hand? :$

[Snollygoster]

Is it me or with version 2.2.6.4 of Recode you don't get to Select Subtitles... I just have the 2 audio tabs and no subtitle tabs...

[Mindphaser]

Well, that's what I found in new version of NVE 3.0.1.18 - Nero Recode 2.2.6.4:

- No chapters
- No subtitles
- DS Videodecoder NeVideo.ax updated to ver. 2.0.2.30
- MPEG4/AVC encoder NeNDVid.ax (2.6.2.9) wasn't updated and Ateme encoder still old ver. 1.0.2.2 from December 2 2004. That's all very pity :-(

Don't download NVE30118, no sence

[daldrum]

Can anyone officially confirm the thing about missing features in the update? If its true, I think it would be outrageous to do such changes without letting its users know about it. I am just considering buying the Nero package, and this seems to be too bad to be true. Unless it is only an issue for pirated copies. As far as I know these changes are not mentioned in the change logs.

[daveidmx]

@justinkwaugh

crosspost.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by daldrum
Can anyone officially confirm the thing about missing features in the update? If its true, I think it would be outrageous to do such changes without letting its users know about it. I am just considering buying the Nero package, and this seems to be too bad to be true. Unless it is only an issue for pirated copies. As far as I know these changes are not mentioned in the change logs. Chapters and subtitles are not removed. At least I have those, though maybe I need to do a clean install becase I have newer 2.2.6.6 even after the installation of this package..
I don't know why Mindphaser claims that, but it's not true, unless it's some "issue"..

[daldrum]

OK, thank you.

[momentum]

Hmmm strange, me too missing subtitle,but chapter remained.
having severe audiosynch problem though

[neo_anderson]

hmm..... strange, i encoded a dvd-extra clip (deleted scene) and had no audio-sync problem, i suggest u play the file with media player classic or showtime 2, that would give no problems, i was having sync probs in zoom but none in mpc ! also please tell me guys how much time encoding is taking at ur pc's? please read my post and reply please: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88191

[neo_anderson]

what are these and are they any useful in dvd to nero avc encoding:
macroblock partitions,CABAC and weighted predictions ?

[acidsex]

On a P4 2.4GHZ, using the Standard AVC profile, my 2nd pass never gets above 10fps using default settings except reference changed to 1. I have no clue where everyone is getting these outrageous fps because I am not seeing it.

During the beta test, the first pass usually was much slower than the second pass but for some reason, that is no longer the case for me.

Personally, I am upset with this latest release. Features that were supposed to have been implemented with the last release still are not implemented (export ND from Vision Express timeline, editing MP4 in Vision Express, recode support for MS-DVR files (gets through first pass then b0rks the second pass) and then features that were there now gone (custom resizing changes to 0 no matter what the input is).

It kind of sucks because I have been championing this codec/app over at the Sony Vegas Video forum and then this kind of stuff happens.

Does anyone know when Nero plans to include DVD style menu support and I know this will get flames, but the option of using DRM (before you freak out about personal rights, its so clients cant take the work and not pay for it)?

[Manao]

neo_anderson : search for these terms in this forum, you'll find what they mean and why they are useful.

[donaldtone]

Originally posted by Mindphaser
Well, that's what I found in new version of NVE 3.0.1.18 - Nero Recode 2.2.6.4:

- No chapters
- No subtitles
- DS Videodecoder NeVideo.ax updated to ver. 2.0.2.30
- MPEG4/AVC encoder NeNDVid.ax (2.6.2.9) wasn't updated and Ateme encoder still old ver. 1.0.2.2 from December 2 2004. That's all very pity :-(

Don't download NVE30118, no sence

me too.
I have already uninstalled previous version,
and use nero remove tool to clean the register.
Then install nero again.
What a pity.

[lutz0411]

Chapters and subtitles are not removed. At least I have those, though maybe I need to do a clean install becase I have newer 2.2.6.6 even after the installation of this package..

I miss subtitle-features too - only ND (AVC) encoding, not within dvd recoding. I've downgraded to the previous release...

[daveidmx]

@SeeMoreDigital

:confused:

Welcome to Version Conflict City!

Previous version was:
NeAudio.ax 1.0.4.36 at 797696 bytes.
You have that in front of you and I in front of me.

Nero 6.6.0.5 installs:
NeAudio.ax 1.0.4.42 at 649216 bytes.
("New" version won't play with others.)

But here's where things get awkward.
NVE 3.0.1.18 also installs:
"version 1.0.4.36", but its 650240 bytes!


So if you install the new NVE .18 only, and not the new nero, the verion numbers match and you don't get the "new?" version. This makes me nervous that there might be other files that aren't being updated as well. Of course this is to say nothing of the fact that there's two different files being disty'd as current...

[donaldtone]

Originally posted by JohnV
Chapters and subtitles are not removed. At least I have those, though maybe I need to do a clean install becase I have newer 2.2.6.6 even after the installation of this package..
I don't know why Mindphaser claims that, but it's not true, unless it's some "issue"..

So you means that 2.2.6.6 is quite different from the present one 2.2.6.4.
Why not release 2.2.6.6?

[momentum]

Ehhh...
First of all, I am sorry for asking out of context question.

How do you make, adjust (split and merge), subtitle on Nero recode ?
I produced 3 parts mp4 files using nero recode without hardcoded sub. when I use subrip or vobrip, time stamping on these two utils are quite different from the one nero shows.

[Mindphaser]

I think version 3.0.1.18 not so new as many wanted. Japanese ver. was on the ftp://ftp4.us.nero.com/ from Dec 21 14:49:
NVE30118_jpn.exe . . . . . . . . Dec 21 14:49 34354k
So new version NVE30118.exe . . . . . . . . . . Jan 10 07:57 34771k is only translated variant of that japanese with minimal fixes?

Maybe someone saw two big bugs in Nero Recode. First, sometimes when use overlay or change display modes when encoding in progress, after encoding we have only sound in output file, no video present :-(
And the second, for my mind, very very bad bug with blocked hybernate mode when Recode works. It's very bad, because my Athlon 3200+ isn't able to recode a full 2h video in two pass during one night, and I can't leave my PC worked when I go to my work. How that annoying bug can be fixed? Maybe somebody knows someone program for activate hybernate mode when it blocked by some software (NR)?

Sorry for my English

[calinb]

Originally posted by Mindphaser
And the second, for my mind, very very bad bug with blocked hybernate mode when Recode works. Yes, this is a severe downside to Recode for some of us. I'm not sure that hibernate (or any low power cpu modes, for that matter) have ever worked with Recode. :( If your laptop runs out of gas and forces a hibernate, you lose your encoding work too.

[toke]

Originally posted by JohnV
Chapters and subtitles are not removed. At least I have those, though maybe I need to do a clean install becase I have newer 2.2.6.6 even after the installation of this package..
I don't know why Mindphaser claims that, but it's not true, unless it's some "issue"..

I also miss subtitles and chapters with 3.0.1.18's 2.6.4.
So do we get them back with 2.6.6?

Joonas, kuinkas on?

I noticed strange thing with resize: you have to raise "video quality" (=video bitrate) to a certain point and after that resizing works.
If you disable resize by selecting too low video bitrate, cropping doesn't work either, maybe because of resizing is disabled.

Nero's staff:
When are we going to get quality slider instead of this video bitrate slider? Something like 2-pass constant quality?

[Sharktooth]

2 pass constant quality?
Uhm... u mean 1 pass constant quality maybe?

[toke]

Well, as many passes as needed to get exact quality.
Many encoders use more than one pass for quality based encoding.

So, I'm just asking quality.
I don't care so much about exact bitrates, I'm interested about quality.

[hiemster8]

This new nero sucks, I have made like 8 coasters trying different media. I thought it was my dvd burner so I updated my firmware and that was not it so I rolled back to the previous version. I updated and waited for that long download for nothing. I was using recode2 to make a movie and when it was time to burn the movie it starts the burn and immediately it says some type of block error.and here comes another coaster please help if anyone can.thanks.

[hiemster8]

When I use the rolled back nero all works well. weird huh.

[hiemster8]

:confused:

[Latexxx]

Try to save the files to hd before burning.

[hiemster8]

I used the Nero clean tools and reinstalled the update. I shall try to burn to hard drive first. But has anyone else been having this trouble. Do you believe it may be a conflict with Roxio easy Media creator 7? Any input is appreciated.

[toke]

Why do we have two diffrent 2.2.6.4 versions?
First from NVE30114 packet and second from NVE30118.
Can we have confirmation that subs and chapters were taken off because of noncompability with mpeg4 standard?
Or is there some other reason?

2.2.6.4 "second edition" seems to be faster, but we lack subs, chapters and resizing only works with automatic setting when bitrate is high enough.

Any timeframes for fixing these?
Those working and anykind of constant quality option and Recode would be a hit! I think it could be also sold as a standalone program.

Nero/Ateme people, can we have some answers or are these too big secrets?

[daldrum]

The same here, missing chapter and subs option in NVE30118.exe.
What is even stranger, when I install previous version of NeroVision NVE3014.exe (after uninstalling using Nero Clean tools), chapters and subs are back back but this time there is NO "AVC":-(

Posted about this to NEro support, waiting...
Come on Nero guys, give us some info! Actually I am a fresh owner of Nero Reloaded package, and the only reason I bought it was the new AVC:-(

[JohnV]

I don't know why this version got released exactly..
But there should be a new update soon which fixes many things, I was said latest at next week.

Also sync issues with some NTSC material are fixed for the next release.

[Mindphaser]

Originally posted by daldrum
The same here, missing chapter and subs option in NVE30118.exe.
What is even stranger, when I install previous version of NeroVision NVE3014.exe (after uninstalling using Nero Clean tools), chapters and subs are back back this there is NO "AVC":-(

There is no problem. Kill these keys in registry:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Ahead\Nero Recode\Info]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Ahead\NeroVision\Info]
than start and register programs again.

Posted about this to NEro support, waiting...
Come on Nero guys, give us some info! Actually I am a fresh owner of Nero Reloaded package, and the only reason I bought it was the new AVC:-(
Ask them please about hibernate mode lock in recode and next bug: when recode in progress and you start playing 3D-games or start programs changing display modes (may be so), nero recode continue coding, but without video, only sound :-(

[daldrum]

You are playing 3D games during Recode sessions?!
You are definitely stressing the system too much, during Nero recode sessions I never do any kind of other demanding tasks.

[neo_anderson]

Originally posted by JohnV
I don't know why this version got released exactly..
But there should be a new update soon which fixes many things, I was said latest at next week.

Also sync issues with some NTSC material are fixed for the next release.

Holy Hell, now i will have to download another 30+ mb pack next week, i hope they release it with some major improvements like resolving audio sync, faster avc encoding and proper cropping for dvd material......

[toke]

Originally posted by JohnV
I don't know why this version got released exactly..
But there should be a new update soon which fixes many things, I was said latest at next week.
Also sync issues with some NTSC material are fixed for the next release.

Thanks for the info!

[toke]

Originally posted by Mindphaser
Ask them please about hibernate mode lock in recode and next bug: when recode in progress and you start playing 3D-games or start programs changing display modes (may be so), nero recode continue coding, but without video, only sound :-(

I have same kind of problem. With Matrox's overlay if you start any other program that use DvdMax when you are Recoding, then you get only sound...

[JohnV]

Originally posted by toke
I have same kind of problem. With Matrox's overlay if you start any other program that use DvdMax when you are Recoding, then you get only sound... If you play something in overlay mode for example with Media Player Classic, does Recode produce stream without video for you?
If so, can you PM me. Or anybody who can reproduce this kind of streams without video, PM me. I need a small 3-5MB stream like that.

[daldrum]

quote:Originally posted by daldrum
The same here, missing chapter and subs option in NVE30118.exe.
What is even stranger, when I install previous version of NeroVision NVE3014.exe (after uninstalling using Nero Clean tools), chapters and subs are back back this there is NO "AVC":-(


There is no problem. Kill these keys in registry:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Ahead\Nero Recode\Info]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Ahead\NeroVision\Info]
than start and register programs again.


I did as you wrote, however, the second (NeroVision\Info) entry was not present in the registry. Then I started and registered the apps again. Still I have no AVC option in this (NVE3014.exe) release:-(
Any more ideas?

Also, what is your experience with Nero support, how fast or slow are they when responding to submissions?

[toke]

Btw,
what options are there for free player in win/mac/linux to play nerodigital's avc-mp4's?

(I'm too lazy to start new thread...)

[slavickas]

Originally posted by toke
Btw,
what options are there for free player in win/mac/linux to play nerodigital's avc-mp4's?

(I'm too lazy to start new thread...)

cvs build of vlc supports (with cvs ffmpeg :)), so next release 0.8.2 will support it, current only ok without b frames and weighed prediction

[mp3chan]

Originally posted by daldrum
Still I have no AVC option in this (NVE3014.exe) release:-(
Any more ideas?

I also had same problem. What I did was uninstalling all nero's stuff, run "General-CleanTool", then install only NVE30118.exe without installing Nero Reloaded first. Strangely enough, this worked! :confused:

[daldrum]

Originally posted by mp3chan
I also had same problem. What I did was uninstalling all nero's stuff, run "General-CleanTool", then install only NVE30118.exe without installing Nero Reloaded first. Strangely enough, this worked! :confused:

By saying "worked" you mean you have AVC with Subtitles tab and Chapters button in NVE30118.exe?

God I hate this, I still have no info about it from the Nero support, anybody got a response regarding this from NERO support team?

[video]

Hi folks.
I've pruchased this nero digital (vision express 3.0.1.14) thingy including audio plugins such as AC3(DD) and AAC. I'm almost happy with this, but I've some problem with the audio encoder (HE)AAC module. It's produces the audio track of the movie approx. 12dB softer than expected. How can I control the volume before it gets transcoded from DD to AAC?

[bond]

Originally posted by video
How can I control the volume before it gets transcoded from DD to AAC?recode2 doesnt do gain on the audio streams as it would be necessary

encode the audio in besweet with gain enabled for example and mux into .mp4 later

[video]

Originally posted by justinkwaugh
I have massive problems with audio sync when I encode using nero recode 2. I'm encoding hdtv extracted from my tivo. It is 1280x1088 mpeg2 with 5.1 ac3 sound. Basically the movie encodes, and the video is fine, but the audio ends up getting more and more behind the video until at the end, it is 30 min or so behind.

Here is the explanation of the problem according to the guy who wrote the tivo extraction app:

DTV uses TFF and RFF in a weird way (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203601&postcount=708)

It seems this is similar to the problems others were mentioning. Is there any workaround using avisynth to solve the problem?

I feel I't shouldn't be a problem. TFF and RFF flags in the mpeg2 streams are having the purpose to render the progressive video which frame rate is 24(23.976)fps in real on a display at ntsc frame rate and interlaced mode. So the decoder can produce the telecine effect on the fly with the help of these flags.

We are almost there, but there are two more flags in the mpeg header, the first one called fps and the second one is the drop frame.

There are two methods to transfer films to mpeg:

a) slow down the movie from 24fps to 23.976 fps. In this case your decoder after performing the assisted telecine can output 29.97fps to your tv. In this case the fps field is used in the mpeg header.

b) usind drop frame. The movie and the mpeg stream having exactly 24fps, but in this case after the telecine you got 30 fps. To have exactly 29.97fps out from the decoder, it will count frames and will drop the one which belongs to the exact minute playing out and the frame next to that, if their frame number are even multiples of 10.

You may encounter with (b), so after IVTC You have ignored the DF property. But I feel it should be no more than 30sec slip. If audio lags more than 30secs then your IVTC decoder did somthing really-really bad.

[justinkwaugh]

If you read that link, and if it is true, then what you said is incorrect. Directv doesn't use the TFF RFF flags for 24->30 fps telecine. Rather they are using it to save space by using the flags to repeat similar frames, but the framerate is actual 29.97 fps, and not 24 w/ telecine.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by daldrum
By saying "worked" you mean you have AVC with Subtitles tab and Chapters button in NVE30118.exe?

God I hate this, I still have no info about it from the Nero support, anybody got a response regarding this from NERO support team? I'm no "NERO support team", but there should be new version out either tomorrow or monday/early next week. At least subtitles and chapters should work.

Contrary what I thought, filters that fix NTSC sync issues didn't make it to this coming release, but there will be another release sooner than usual in the beginning of Feb which will address also this issue.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by bond
recode2 doesnt do gain on the audio streams as it would be necessary
Audio gain will be part of Nero Digital "soon".

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for keeping us appraised of the situation JohnV ;)


Cheers mate

[McoreD]

Originally posted by JohnV
Audio gain will be part of Nero Digital "soon".

That's good news JohnV. The encoded ND-MPEG4 have very much low audio level compared to the movie which makes it almost impossible to watch a movie with earphones.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by JohnV
Contrary what I thought, filters that fix NTSC sync issues didn't make it to this coming release, but there will be another release sooner than usual in the beginning of Feb which will address also this issue. I'm happy to say that now it seems the filters fixing NTSC sync issues will be in the next release due out in few days after all. :)

[JohnV]

Originally posted by McoreD
That's good news JohnV. The encoded ND-MPEG4 have very much low audio level compared to the movie which makes it almost impossible to watch a movie with earphones. I hope the fix for this will come soon. But it helps it you don't use 5.1ch->2ch conversion. If the DVD has 2ch audio, use that for 2ch and the volume will not be so low. I know we should get this fixed asap..

[acidsex]

JohnV,

Just wanted to take the opportunity to thank you and the rest of the developers who work so hard to fix everything and put up with our griping :) I know we have expresse dour thanks to you all in the past but I just wanted to say thanks again to let you know we truly appreciate the awesome product you have brought to the masses.

Having said that, is export to ND from within the Vision Express timeline going to make it in this release? Seems like forever that we have been waiting for this feature (since the initial launch)

Thank you once again.

[video]

Originally posted by justinkwaugh
If you read that link, and if it is true, then what you said is incorrect. Directv doesn't use the TFF RFF flags for 24->30 fps telecine. Rather they are using it to save space by using the flags to repeat similar frames, but the framerate is actual 29.97 fps, and not 24 w/ telecine.
Okay. You may try this:
a) you have the transport stream captured i.e. movie.ts
b) You have installed the moonlight-elecard mpeg2 player
c) You have installed Tom Barry's deinterlacing filter (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28778) into avisynth's plugin directory.
d) script:

LoadPlugin("TomsMoComp.dll")
DirectShowSource("movie.ts")
TomsMoComp(1,5,1)


If the field order is wrong You may try TomsMoComp(0,5,1), but don't do TomsMoComp(-1,5,1) because the filter may shoot itself on foot doue to the 'strange' field ordering tricks of your DTV broadcast. If You don't like TomsMoComp, You may use a more simple scipt such as

DirectShowSource("movie.ts")

or even rename the file to movie.mpg or whatever what nero recode accepts and set the deinterlace tick in nero recode.

[daldrum]

Just to confirm JohnVs words about the next update availability.
Here is the official info I have got from Nero support team today:

"I spoke to our development and found out that they already know the problem with the missing subtitle option and fixed it for the next release. So please be patient and update to our next versions on www.nero.com (coming in about 1 week)"

[Mindphaser]

Originally posted by daldrum
Just to confirm JohnVs words about the next update availability.
Here is the official info I have got from Nero support team today:

"I spoke to our development and found out that they already know the problem with the missing subtitle option and fixed it for the next release. So please be patient and update to our next versions on www.nero.com (coming in about 1 week)"
That's good. And what about hibernate mode lock and missing video in result when overlay using during encoding?

[JohnV]

Originally posted by Mindphaser
That's good. And what about hibernate mode lock and missing video in result when overlay using during encoding? These are not yet fixed for the release which looks like to be out today, but another update is planned within 2 weeks. But chapters, subtitles, NTSC a/v sync and some other issues are already fixed.

[mikeson]

NeroVision Express 3 / Nero Recode 2 (3.0.1.27)

Download here (ftp://ftp6.us.nero.com/NVE30127.exe)

[Sharktooth]

Anyone tested it? I'm still SLOWLY downloading it...

[Sharktooth]

Ok, finished downloading and the fixes are there... finally...
Still the 5.1ch->2ch audio conversion lowers the volume but if i understood correctly that will be fixed with the next releases.
I can't still "eat" the Recode interface and for that reason if nero/ateme will keep the codec integrated into recode i think i will move to x.264 ASAP (so i can set the EXACT encoding bitrate...).

[toke]

I think Constant Quality would be very crucial, if you think that early adaptors are quite quality conscious and getting ND to mass markets will have to go through early adaptors.

[justinkwaugh]

With the new version, audio sync is still not properly fixed for my directv hdtv content. Previously the video played back perfectly smoothly and the audio lagged behind progressively worse. Now it seems that the audio is sort of synced up, but mostly because the video comes to a complete halt every few frames and then skips ahead.

In addition, converting the audio to 5 channel aac doesn't include all 5 channels upon playback. The center channel at least appears to be missing as there is background music, but no voices.

Just to recap, my video source is a 2 min clip of recorded HDTV in mpeg2 format from DirecTV with a resolution of 1280x1088 and an ac3 5.1 audio track. It plays back perfectly in various players.

I beg nero to fix this problem, as I have about 400GB of recorded hdtv content which I would like to recompress to avc for storage.

The settings I chose are default settings for 5.1 audio, I cropped the bottom 8 pixels from the video, and set it on the AVC-HDTV setting.

I am happy to provide the clip I am encoding to the nero developers. Just tell me where to send / upload it. It's a 378 meg file.

[McoreD]

Another thing I might add. One of my 8 hour long AVC encode aborted suddenly at 95%. Stupid me. I swithched user in Windows XP. Will there be a fix for this or should I lock the computer? ;)

[thegeby]

Testing on a feature-length cartoon showed:

chapters working, but not available in Showtime's "next" button
subtitles working fine
pretty new icons for the encodes (yeah. I like them a lot :cool: )

I also seem to have a faster encode (Standard AVC)this could be that the maximum reference frames seem to have been set to "one" as a default, instead of "three".

[toke]

One more "great" idea for Nero:
adding rendering farm like function to fasten the encoding.
Lots of people are having more than one pc at home and they are networked together. So adding those bedroom machine, workroom powerhorse, old server in a closet, htpc in living room and laptop in a backpack would shrink encoding time to a fraction of what it is now.
We could use best quality settings in every case. If in hurry, just turn on few more pc's...

[Mindphaser]

But version of Ateme encoder in NeNDVideo.ax is still old 1.0.2.2 :-(

[Sharktooth]

The encoder hasn't changed.
The issues were ALL in the GUI (Recode).

[video]

I think nothin' is wrong with the current ateme encoder if it can do this (http://feliratok.rpotor.com/jadzia/pulp_fiction_chapter8_384kbps_ateme-avc.mp4) @384kbps :)

[Sharktooth]

As i said hundreds of times the encoder is good... it's just Recode that's buggy...

[IgorC]

when i use more than 6 refence frames (7-8) it seem to drop some frames.

i used newest version NVE 30127, and AVC codec don´t get faster. it´s only use 3 ref instead of 5 . But i still use 6.

[Sharktooth]

yes, new defaults are 3 reference frames.
quality freaks may argue that's a bad choice/use 5 refs... but the quality difference between 3 and 5 refs is not so big while the speedup is noticeable...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Something's still not right with this new version of NVE (ie: NVE (v3.0.1.27) Released 23Jan2005) :(

After installation, MediaPlayer Classic can no longer play files containing AAC audio using Nero's DSdec audio filter although WMP9/10 still works okay!

I've tried going back to the previous "working" version (ie: NVE (v3.0.1.14) Released 03Dec2004) but to no avail :(


Cheers

[daveidmx]

@SeeMoreDigital

Just checking if you might have missed these last time 'round. :) These posts were from the last version, but .27 installs yet another version (1.0.4.46) which also doesn't play with others.

You have to revert manually to one of the two 1.0.4.36 versions to use other media players.


Originally posted by daveidmx
@SeeMoreDigital

Aha!

1.0.4.36 worked for me as well, but the update installed version 1.0.4.42 (I think. Have to confirm later, but i know it was forty-something.)

Forty-something won't play with anything else. Perhaps your NeAudio.ax was locked when the installer was trying to update and you got stuck with the old version?

Originally posted by daveidmx
@SeeMoreDigital

:confused:

Welcome to Version Conflict City!

Previous version was:
NeAudio.ax 1.0.4.36 at 797696 bytes.
You have that in front of you and I in front of me.

Nero 6.6.0.5 installs:
NeAudio.ax 1.0.4.42 at 649216 bytes.
("New" version won't play with others.)

But here's where things get awkward.
NVE 3.0.1.18 also installs:
"version 1.0.4.36", but its 650240 bytes!


So if you install the new NVE .18 only, and not the new nero, the verion numbers match and you don't get the "new?" version. This makes me nervous that there might be other files that aren't being updated as well. Of course this is to say nothing of the fact that there's two different files being disty'd as current...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by daveidmx
Just checking if you might have missed these last time 'round. :) These posts were from the last version, but .27 installs yet another version (1.0.4.46) which also doesn't play with others.

You have to revert manually to one of the two 1.0.4.36 versions to use other media players. Thanks for the reminder Dave, very much appreciated :D

After manually replacing 1.0.4.46 (627KB) with 1.0.4.36 (779KB), all is well again!

During the installation of NVE 3.0.1.27, I decided to select a few more "file associations". Since doing so some of my .MP4 encodes are able to display a lot more information: -

http://img196.exs.cx/img196/3513/neroproperties9dt.gif


Cheers

[G-Slide]

i'm sad... i was happy cause of AVC Nero, cause when i show my avc encodes on my computer, i'ts beautiful. but i just tried to see on my TV (thomson 72cm 16/9) with the s-video connection on my 6800GT, and the result is........ hugly ! there are a lot of blocking ! it's so hugly ! the quality is so poor... there a big block i can't see on my computer, and i can see them on my tv, all the time...
blocks seem to "move"

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hmmm!

I've viewed my and other peoples AVC test encodes (generated using Nero and others) on my 42" TV, via S-video... and they look fine to me!


Cheers

[acidsex]

so how does one enable the rights management?

[calinb]

Originally posted by G-Slide
<snip>i just tried to see on my TV (thomson 72cm 16/9) with the s-video connection on my 6800GT, and the result is........ hugly !<snip> Yup--size matters! I have the same complaint using the DVI input to my 50" Sammy--with any codec if you starve the bits, for that matter! I've found maximum inloop deblocking (adaptive/6) works best for me. I think artifact reduction is what it's all about on high quality FPDs! I mostly incode HD at 1280x720@24/30fps Try using more bits or more inloop deblocking and see if you prefer the results.

[McoreD]

Originally posted by JohnV
I hope the fix for this will come soon. But it helps it you don't use 5.1ch->2ch conversion. If the DVD has 2ch audio, use that for 2ch and the volume will not be so low. I know we should get this fixed asap..

Using latest Nero and Recode. The Audio level was fine in encoded MP4 files when played in directshow players e.g. WMP10 other than Nero ShowTime. Low Audio level was only from Nero ShowTime. Looks like an issue with ShowTime?

[Sgt_Strider]

I'm sorry to ask this, but is the AVC encoder in Nero Recode officially done? Like are there still features missing or it contains all of the features that was intended for this encoder? What kind of FPS are you guys getting with the latest release? Thanks.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by Sgt_Strider
I'm sorry to ask this, but is the AVC encoder in Nero Recode officially done? Like are there still features missing or it contains all of the features that was intended for this encoder? Some encoder features will be added. For example interlaced support and maybe AVC High Profile. And of course Ateme continues to improve the AVC encoder core, so in that sense it's not "done".

[acidsex]

JohnV, any chance that there will be an increase in speed with regards to the time it takes to encode? Trying to get the most that I can out of the P4 2.4GHZ I have now and dont want to shell out extra bucks for a faster processor unless I absolutely have to.

[G-Slide]

i hope nero will do something for le blocking problem...

[JohnV]

Originally posted by acidsex
JohnV, any chance that there will be an increase in speed with regards to the time it takes to encode? Trying to get the most that I can out of the P4 2.4GHZ I have now and dont want to shell out extra bucks for a faster processor unless I absolutely have to. Yes, there will be some speed increase soon.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by G-Slide
i hope nero will do something for le blocking problem... Well, it's Ateme's job to make the b-frames better, but now you can select to use only 1-2 consequtive b-frames and there should be less blocking. But the next filter version should have increased quality. I'll check soon if b-frames act any differently.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by McoreD
Using latest Nero and Recode. The Audio level was fine in encoded MP4 files when played in directshow players e.g. WMP10 other than Nero ShowTime. Low Audio level was only from Nero ShowTime. Looks like an issue with ShowTime? Hmm, it's the same for me in WMP9, ShowTime and MPC. But Foobar2001 indeed plays the mp4 louder for me..
Anybody else?

EDIT: Argh, nothing much, I had equalizer on in Foobar.. (usually I never use equalizer, so I forgot it..)
I get the same volume with everything.

[McoreD]

Originally posted by JohnV
Hmm, it's the same for me in WMP9, ShowTime and MPC. But Foobar2001 indeed plays the mp4 louder for me..
Anybody else?

Hi JohnV, at the time of testing, I had Master Volume: 95%, Wave: 95%, ShowTime volume: 100%, WMP10 Volume: 80%.

Also tried:

Master Volume: 95% and Wave: 95%

1. GraphEdit
2. Nero ShowTime with Volume: 100%

It was very louder with GraphEdit but not with ShowTime. :(

[JohnV]

Originally posted by McoreD

Master Volume: 95% and Wave: 95%

1. GraphEdit
2. Nero ShowTime with Volume: 100%

It was very louder with GraphEdit but not with ShowTime. :( I get the same volume.. What channel settings you are using? Try only with 1 audio stream and for example 5.1ch->2ch. Anybody else has similar results as McoreD?

[igor1st]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
As i said hundreds of times the encoder is good... it's just Recode that's buggy...
Sorry for delay. I don't have enough free time at present.
Encoder by Ateme (which comes with ND) has bug in rate-control. This bug (or bad rate-control itself) leads to overcompress some frames (frequent - consecution of frames, length up to 10-20). For example quantizer=35-50 instead of quantizer=20-30. Result - bad image with many blocks (if deblocking disable) or blurred image with block structure (if deblocking enable).
This situation is repeatable and not depends upon codecs features.
Some screenshots:
http://igor1st.narod.ru/video/nd-h264-wodeb-2.png
http://igor1st.narod.ru/video/nd-h264-wdeb-2.png
http://igor1st.narod.ru/video/xvid-2.png
http://igor1st.narod.ru/video/nd-h264-wodeb-3.png
http://igor1st.narod.ru/video/nd-h264-wdeb-3.png

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi igor1st,

Your images are taking a hell of a long time to download :eek:

Have you ever thought about uploading them to an "image hosting service provider", such as http://www.imageshack.us/ or http://tinypic.com/ ?


Cheers

[igor1st]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hi igor1st,

Your images are taking a hell of a long time to download :eek:

Have you ever thought about uploading them to an "image hosting service provider", such as http://www.imageshack.us/ or http://tinypic.com/ ?


Cheers
Done.
http://img136.exs.cx/img136/4652/ndh264wodeb27fi.png
http://img132.exs.cx/img132/9196/ndh264wdeb29rt.png
http://img136.exs.cx/img136/9162/xvid25pe.png
http://img151.exs.cx/img151/1079/ndh264wodeb33px.png
http://img132.exs.cx/img132/4401/ndh264wdeb36ce.png

[JohnV]

Originally posted by igor1st
Encoder by Ateme (which comes with ND) has bug in rate-control. This bug (or bad rate-control itself) leads to overcompress some frames (frequent - consecution of frames, length up to 10-20). For example quantizer=35-50 instead of quantizer=20-30. Can you upload the source stream? Please check your private message.

[McoreD]

Originally posted by JohnV
I get the same volume.. What channel settings you are using? Try only with 1 audio stream and for example 5.1ch->2ch. Anybody else has similar results as McoreD?

Hi, I am using 6 channel output, Having 2 channel output only slightly increases the volume. It's also boosted up by AC3Filter but still very low compared to the audio level when played in GraphEdit or WMP.

[G-Slide]

someone can tell me why i can't see blocks on my 17" crt when i show a avc video, qith great qualty, and why the quality is hugly when i use my s-video 6800gt end on my tv ???

[igor1st]

Originally posted by JohnV
Can you upload the source stream? Please check your private message.
Done.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by G-Slide
someone can tell me why i can't see blocks on my 17" crt when i show a avc video, qith great qualty, and why the quality is hugly when i use my s-video 6800gt end on my tv ??? What player/decoder you use? If you use ffdshow, it probably has problems with b-frame deblocking, so if you don't use ShowTime, use max 1 b-frame. And difficult to say cause this "hugly" is not very precise description.. :rolleyes:
Try different inloop settings and ShowTime for decoding.

[G-Slide]

i use nero showtime, the "clone"mode to put video on my TV : blocks "flash" , its weird... and i haven't this prob on my crt

[daveidmx]

So at this point, is it confirmed that the audio level is low WRT the "Standard"? Or are we just whining? Down the road, will this be a concern for playback on standalone hardware?

Another way, is the "compliant" fix for this low level situation to boost at encode or at playback?

[JohnV]

Originally posted by igor1st
Sorry for delay. I don't have enough free time at present.
Encoder by Ateme (which comes with ND) has bug in rate-control. This bug (or bad rate-control itself) leads to overcompress some frames (frequent - consecution of frames, length up to 10-20). For example quantizer=35-50 instead of quantizer=20-30.
Originally posted by JohnV
Can you upload the source stream? Please check your private message. igor1st: I don't have this problem at least with my new filter set. Does this problem happen for you with the short 4 second clip you sent me? I'm just wondering that maybe this is too short clip, or it was fixed already.

[igor1st]

Originally posted by JohnV
igor1st: I don't have this problem at least with my new filter set. Does this problem happen for you with the short 4 second clip you sent me? I'm just wondering that maybe this is too short clip, or it was fixed already.
Yes, it happens with this short clip. I uploaded you my encode of this clip.
NVE 3.0.1.14 (new ones did not contains new version of encoder), 2Mbps, Standard AVC, deblocking disable, cartoon mode enable. The result is ugly.

That's a great news in case the problem has already solved.

[IgorC]

does recode2 support dts audio track? If it does but doesn´t work here

I´ve tried to encode this into AAC (Recode2 Max. Def. AVC) http://download.cinenow.com/vobtrailers/dts-sonic_landscape.vob
Time length : 17s
Sound format : DTS 5.1 (1536 Kbps)
Video format : 960x540 (7.5 Mbps)

http://download.cinenow.com/vobtrailers/dts-the_digital_experience.vob

Time length : 33s
Sound format : DTS 5.1 (1536 Kbps)
Video format : 960x540 (9.8 Mbps)

[JohnV]

Originally posted by igor1st
Yes, it happens with this short clip. I uploaded you my encode of this clip.
NVE 3.0.1.14 (new ones did not contains new version of encoder), 2Mbps, Standard AVC, deblocking disable, cartoon mode enable. The result is ugly.

That's a great news in case the problem has already solved. Thanks, now I see what you really meant. Yes, that should be fixed already.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by IgorC
does recode2 support dts audio track? If it does but doesn´t work here No, I don't think it does!

It's also a shame ShowTime player does not include DTS audio support either! Why is this JohnV?


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
It's also a shame ShowTime player does not include DTS audio support either!
And VMR...

[bot]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question :confused:

Do I need to have the latest full version of Nero Burning Rom to get recode and showtime to work?

I downloaded NVE30127.exe to install showtime, but my pc reboots during installation. I tried to get around it by extracting the dsfilters and installing them manually. The reboot came when I tried to install NEvideo.ax or NEaudio.ax.

I'm using w2k with sp4 installed.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by bot
Forgive me if this is a dumb question :confused:

Do I need to have the latest full version of Nero Burning Rom to get recode and showtime to work? That shouldn't be necessary.

I tried to get around it by extracting the dsfilters and installing them manually. The reboot came when I tried to install NEvideo.ax or NEaudio.ax. How did you try this manual install?
regsvr32 Nevideo.ax and it reboots?

[bot]

Originally posted by JohnV
That shouldn't be necessary.

Thanks!

Originally posted by JohnV
How did you try this manual install?
regsvr32 Nevideo.ax and it reboots?

Yes. Scared the c*** out of me at first.

[bobololo]

Originally posted by igor1st
Yes, it happens with this short clip. I uploaded you my encode of this clip.
NVE 3.0.1.14 (new ones did not contains new version of encoder), 2Mbps, Standard AVC, deblocking disable, cartoon mode enable. The result is ugly.

That's a great news in case the problem has already solved.

I think the problem you have is the same a few people also encountered. Could you try to encode your clips using "avc maximum definition" ? (I guess you're using another profile like standard avc).

[JohnV]

Originally posted by bobololo
I think the problem you have is the same a few people also encountered. Could you try to encode your clips using "avc maximum definition" ? (I guess you're using another profile like standard avc). I encoded his clip with latest filter set with standard avc and there was no such problem.

[igor1st]

Originally posted by bobololo
I think the problem you have is the same a few people also encountered. Could you try to encode your clips using "avc maximum definition" ? (I guess you're using another profile like standard avc).
Yes, I am using sdandard AVC profile. Problem didn't occur with maximum definition profile (with the same settings).

[Soulhunter]

Updated, but I still get this "utils.cpp" errors... >.<


2Pass encode:

********** Nero Recode 2 **********

Version: 2.2.6.9

[...]

Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: CD80 (354000)

17:10:50 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

17:10:50 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 133
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Soulhunter\Desktop (41713475584 bytes free)
NeroDigital profile: Standard
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

17:11:25 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 158
NeroDigital: init

17:11:25 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 269
NeroDigital: burning 354000 sectors (354000 required)

17:11:25 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 343
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

17:11:25 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 697
NeroDigital: encode Kopie von Z

Source:
Size (768,432)
Display Aspect Ratio (768,432)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (0, 12, 0, 12)
Resizing enabled (544,288)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 760945 bps

17:11:25 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 722
Nth-pass file = C:\DOKUME~1\SOULHU~1\LOKALE~1\Temp\\Kopie von Za01404.bin

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Medientyp dieser Datei ist unbekannt.(0x80040240)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Quellfilter für diese Datei konnte nicht geladen werden.(0x80040241)
17:11:25 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 924
NeroDigital: waiting for graph to complete

19:39:18 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 1018
graph completed successfully

19:39:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 391
NeroDigital: finished 1st-pass

19:39:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 407
NeroDigital: 1 files require 2nd pass

19:39:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 480
NeroDigital: beginning 2nd-pass operation

19:39:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 697
NeroDigital: encode Kopie von Z

Source:
Size (768,432)
Display Aspect Ratio (768,432)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (0, 12, 0, 12)
Resizing enabled (544,288)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 760945 bps

19:39:24 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 722
Nth-pass file = C:\DOKUME~1\SOULHU~1\LOKALE~1\Temp\\Kopie von Za01404.bin

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Medientyp dieser Datei ist unbekannt.(0x80040240)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Quellfilter für diese Datei konnte nicht geladen werden.(0x80040241)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\burn_ndigital.cpp, line:1871, error:Unbekannter Fehler (0x80004005)
19:39:33 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit


Single pass encode:

********** Nero Recode 2 **********

Version: 2.2.6.9

[...]

Project type: Nero Digital
Target size: CD80 (354000)

20:14:17 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

20:14:17 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 133
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Soulhunter\Desktop (41785581568 bytes free)
NeroDigital profile: Standard
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

20:14:28 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 158
NeroDigital: init

20:14:28 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 269
NeroDigital: burning 354000 sectors (354000 required)

20:14:28 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 343
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

20:14:28 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 697
NeroDigital: encode Kopie von Z

Source:
Size (768,432)
Display Aspect Ratio (768,432)
Deinterlace disabled
Cropping enabled (0, 12, 0, 12)
Resizing enabled (544,288)
Pixel ratio (1,1)
Bitrate: 760947 bps

20:14:28 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 722
Nth-pass file = C:\DOKUME~1\SOULHU~1\LOKALE~1\Temp\\Kopie von Za01888.bin

ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Medientyp dieser Datei ist unbekannt.(0x80040240)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Quellfilter für diese Datei konnte nicht geladen werden.(0x80040241)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\burn_ndigital.cpp, line:1871, error:Unbekannter Fehler (0x80004005)
20:14:30 File burn_ndigital.cpp, Line 200
NeroDigital: exit


Maybe it has to do with this lines here ???


ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Medientyp dieser Datei ist unbekannt.(0x80040240)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\directshow\utils.cpp, line:566, error:Der Quellfilter für diese Datei konnte nicht geladen werden.(0x80040241)
ERROR in file:E:\Sources\Current\Recode 2.2\Nero Recode II\burning\burn_ndigital.cpp, line:1871, error:Unbekannter Fehler (0x80004005)


Coz "E:" is my DVD drive... :\


Bye

[Sharktooth]

No, those are debug info.
I suggest you to remove all serials and uninstall everything related to nero, clean the registry and reinstall the latest versions of the packages.
First Nero Burning Rom, then Nero Vision Express.
Provide all the serials for nero software and the plugins and it should work.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by Sharktooth

I suggest you to remove all serials and uninstall everything related to nero, clean the registry and reinstall the latest versions of the packages...

Uninstalled n' reinstalled all nero stuff, but I still get the same error... :(


Bye

[Sharktooth]

Have you removed the serials before uninstalling?

[Soulhunter]

Well, i had to re-enter the serial after the re-installation... :\

Do you mean i have to remove them in this "StartSmart" thingy ???


Bye

[daveidmx]

Re: low audio level

I know that a fix for this is already underway, but I also know that people were looking for more information about this. So I figured I'd send this out.

Common procedure:
Braveheart R1 AC3-2.0 audio track encoded to HE-AAC 2ch with each tool.
Track decoded to .wav with foobar2k, statistics AvgRMS MaxRMS and Peak were gathered with Cool Edit Pro for the first 1200 seconds.

Tools:
1) Recode
2) BeSweet, bsn, Dialog Norm Off, DRC Off
2) BeSweet, bsn, Dialog Norm Off, DRC Normal


encode tool avg max diff peak
recode -45.6 -25.0 20.6 -15.5
bsn nodrc -37.8 -13.3 24.5 -04.0
bsn normal -36.7 -17.5 19.2 -07.9


Now the difference between the average and max RMS readings ("diff") is correlated to the dynamic range, so I assume that Recode uses a "Normal" DRC setting. (Both have a "diff" value of about 20db) It also appears that Recode's audio hovers around 8db below that of BeSweet/Normal.

[bot]

No suggestion as to what it could be :confused:

Anyways, the self terminating installation left some files installed. When I try to uninstall it behaves in the same way and reboots all of a sudden.

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Well, i had to re-enter the serial after the re-installation... :\

Do you mean i have to remove them in this "StartSmart" thingy ???


Bye
Yep, and after uninstalling all the nero appz, clean the registry manually or with the nero cleaning tool.
If it still doesnt work just contact ahead and tell them to replace your serials coz one of them isnt working!

[candsh]

I bought a retail version of Nero 6 - Ultra Edition (Office Max) Did a movie with Nero Digital and played it back with Nero Showtime. Then there was an update which I downloaded and installed and now Showtime will not play the Digital any longer. Says "cannot load, files missing" so I removed Showtime and redownloaded but still get the same error. Windows Media Player plays the disks without a problem.

[G-Slide]

great news ! do you remember my problem with visible blocks when playing AVC videos on my TV with the 6800GT s-video output ???!!! i thought there was an bug with nero recode. yesterday, i trided the same thing, but with DVD source (on tv with s-video output), and i have the same problem. it's good cause the prob doesn't come from AVC but from s-video output !!!

[neo_anderson]

1. When I Disable Resize, but cropping enabled (which was done by me in proper way so as to eliminate black borders on top and bottom), still the output video had black borders attached at top and bottom!
2. I Resized my anamorhic 16:9 dvd to 704X304 and enabled subtitles muxing, in the output video file, subs were little smaller in size than originals!
3. Is there any way to decide bitrate to be used, and what should be the resize according to bitrate?

[JohnV]

Originally posted by neo_anderson
1. When I Disable Resize, but cropping enabled (which was done by me in proper way so as to eliminate black borders on top and bottom), still the output video had black borders attached at top and bottom!
2. I Resized my anamorhic 16:9 dvd to 704X304 and enabled subtitles muxing, in the output video file, subs were little smaller in size than originals!
3. Is there any way to decide bitrate to be used, and what should be the resize according to bitrate?
1. Uncheck Letterboxing
2. Well, the subs rendering is probably a bit different than in some other software, it's just a rendering issue, since we include the DVD's subtitle stream(s) as it is
3. Well.. when you use automatic resize, it does change the resize automatically relative to your chosen bitrate.

[calinb]

Originally posted by neo_anderson
1. When I Disable Resize, but cropping enabled (which was done by me in proper way so as to eliminate black borders on top and bottom), still the output video had black borders attached at top and bottom! Did you crop to multiples of 16? I think I remember Nero adding black bars to make a cropped image divisible by 16--even if resize is disabled (which automatically unchecks letterboxing).

JohnV should be able to confirm/deny this behavior.

@JohnV: WRT blocks, I agree with Sharktooth--1 bframe mo' better. Thanks! :)

[JohnV]

Originally posted by calinb
Did you crop to multiples of 16? I think I remember Nero adding black bars to make a cropped image divisible by 16--even if resize is disabled (which automatically unchecks letterboxing).

JohnV should be able to confirm/deny this behavior.

Yeah, I was a bit too fast. Yes that it so.
@JohnV: WRT blocks, I agree with Sharktooth--1 bframe mo' better. Thanks! :) I think 3 bvops shouldnt be a problem in the next filter versions..

[neo_anderson]

hi,
so , how to crop in terms of multiples of 16, i mean, cropping just eliminates black borders, how to crop in multiples of 16 without resizing? cropping is done with mouse drag over borders, right?

[video]

Originally posted by neo_anderson
hi,
so , how to crop in terms of multiples of 16, i mean, cropping just eliminates black borders, how to crop in multiples of 16 without resizing? cropping is done with mouse drag over borders, right?

Recode will tell you the exact pel dimensions of the result, okay I know it's not so easy to set the image size to the a multiple of 16, but it can be done ;) Anyway it will be wery much useful, if some could type in the exact cropping sizes such as can be in vdub's null transform filter.

[neo_anderson]

hi,
pls can anyone tell me which is the best option for dvd sources, keeping automatic smooth enabled or automatic sharp or enabling deblocking strength, also for dvd sources if enabled,what deblocking strength should be used?also, should i use pve for dvd sources? should i disable pve at higher bitrates?

[video]

it is recommended by serveral rumors to run the MPEG4 AVC encoders with deblocking strength: '-2'. (so it applies to x264, too) Unfortunately I don't know how 'strong' is the deblocking when it set to -2, but it's true, that produces almost block free output in case of 1Mbps video rate when resolution left @720x576

[JeremyIrons]

NERO supports dual layer DVD burn. I wish they would advertise this.

[neo_anderson]

first of all, pls guys, if u find my questions annoying, don't kill me, i'm a newbie!

So, here it goes :
For DVD encoding to avc/h.264 using nero recode 2, what should be the ideal bitrate range for a nice looking encode?
What DeBlocking Strength Should be used, so that no blocks are visible in the output?
In the guide for x264, doom says for 2 cd rips , stay close to 0.25 bpp, so, will nero also give great looking encodes when we chose high filesize?

Also, what b-frames and refference frames should be used?

Please someone do reply!

Thanks.......

[Sharktooth]

@neo_anderson: keep the b-frames value at 1 and regarding reference frames: higher is better but slower. I'm usually satisfied with 5, someone likes even 15... the remaining settings depend on the source.

@johnv: so, when this "filter" update is coming?

[neo_anderson]

thanks, my sources are dvd sources, please sir, also help me with bitrate and deblocking settings!

[Sharktooth]

a low motion movie will require less bitrate, an high motion more bitrate... if the movie is grainy then will hurt the compressibility...
now read again: IT DEPENDS ON THE SOURCE.
So what are the best settings? finding them by yourself is the best way.

[JohnV]

Originally posted by Sharktooth

@johnv: so, when this "filter" update is coming?
Should be in the next web release. I'll check when the build goes to pre-release state.

[Kortik]

how do you know if nero recode 2 got MPEG-4 AVC/H.264.
I have the latest Nero with all the plug ins etc.
Is there a way to check that i am actually using avc/h.264