Problems when removing subtitle streams

[CoNS]

I have a DVD9 disc which I want to make into a DVD5. I use DVD-Rebuilder by jdobbs (and CCE) to compress the disc. This program also allows you to select which audio and/or subtitle streams to remove in the process.

On my original disc there're 10 subtitle streams. For various reasons I only want to keep two streams: no. 1 and 2. In the output disc, DVD-Rebuilder has now blanked out subtitle stream no. 0 and 3-9. DVD-rebuilder apparently doesn't edit the subtitle stream attributes, because the stripped streams are still visible and selectable when I play the disc in my software DVD player (Media Player Classic), they're just empty/blank if they're selected... And I guess if I burn the disc as it is, I can also cycle through those empty streams with my remote control on my standalone player.

I would like to make sure that when I cycle through the available subtitles using my remote control, I can only see/select the two streams which are left untouched.

How can I do this?

I tried loading the output disc from DVD-RB in PgcEdit, double clicked the main VTS title with the movie to enter the PGC-editor and clicked on each of the obsolete (empty/stripped) subtitle streams and clicked "Disable" so that they showed as "none" in the PGC-editor. But I can still see them and select them when playing the disc in my software player (and probably also in my standalone player if I burned it to a disc? Or is it an "error" in Media Player Classic that they still show?).

The only difference is that after editing the subtitle attributes in PgcEdit as described above, my software player now shows one of the two "real" subtitle streams/languages when I select one of the blanked out languages, instead of just showing nothing (the blank stream).

If I go into the "Domain stream attributes" for the PGC in question using PgcEdit, I can see that the languages are still set to the original ISO language codes. Maybe that's why Media Player Classic keeps displaying the subtitles even though I disabled them in the PGC-editor?

[blutach]

@cons

I find the easiest way to do this is to remove the streams in IfoEdit first (ie before building a project). That way, they don't stay there and "clog up your remote".

Having said that, you should still be able to edit them out in IfoEdit. You will need to open the IFO concerned and edit the number of streams in VTSI_MAT (at offset 0x155) and also, for the PGC concerned, in VTS_PGCITI, the subpicture stream status (at offset 0x1c and following).

You will also need to edit VIDEO_TS.IFOs info. Go to VMG_VTS_ATRT and edit the number and type of subbies there (at offset 0x169).

Having said all that, you may still be able to strip it using IfoEdit's VOB Extras - try that first.

NOTE: If you delete the streams, if the IFO sets a stream to something that isn't there any longer, you may get strange results. So, you may need to "reprogram the DVD" in respect of your sub-picture streams. Ask yourself if it is really worth it.

Regards

[CoNS]

Hmmm, I was just hoping that I could do it using PgcEdit and that I was doing something wrong the way I was doing it now? Or was just missing something in the process?

I tried to run the disc outputted by DVD-RB through DVDShrink, where I made a full backup and deselected the "empty" subtitle streams. But the result was the same: When I played it in Media Player Classic I could still see all the empty streams and was also able to select them.

[CoNS]

Ok, now I tried blutach's tip about manually editing the values in VIDEO_TS.IFO and VTS_01_0.IFO using IfoEdit. It doesn't work, it gives me the choice between stream 0 (which is blanked) and stream 1, where it should've shown stream 1 and 2 only.

So with this method, there seems to be a dead end for me because it's not the two first streams I'm keeping, but instead it's the second and third one out of 10.

Hmmm, anyone knows how I can fix it?

[CoNS]

I may have found the solution myself! I eventually got it to work with DVDShrink: I had to check the option "Logical remapping of enabled streams" in Edit -> Preferences... -> Output files. And then it worked! Also, the buttons in the language selection menu of the disc still work, which was crucial for me. So everything is fine now!

Out of curiosity I started IfoEdit afterwards and analyzed the new .IFO files made by DVDShrink and compared it to the original .IFO files. DVDShrink's "logical remapping of enabled streams" function has done this:

In VIDEO_TS.IFO:

In the VMG_VTS_ATRT section, "VTS_1: Number of sub-picture streams in Title (VTSTT_VOBS)" was changed from 11 to 2. (my main movie is located in VTS1, and in DVDShrink I chose to keep only 2 out of 11 subtitle languages)

In VTS_01_0.IFO:

In the VTSI_MAT section, "Number of sub-picture streams in VTSTT_VOBS" was changed from 11 to 2.

Also in the VTSI_MAT section, the "Sub-p_xx: Sub-picture Stream Attributes" was changed. The "Sub-p_01: Sub-picture Stream Attributes" hex value used to be [01 00 63 xx 00 00] (where xx is the ISO language code) and "Sub-p_02: Sub-picture Stream Attributes" hex value used to be [01 00 64 xx 00 00] and so on, up to no. 11. In the new .ifo file made by DVDShrink, "Sub-p_01: Sub-picture Stream Attributes" is set to [01 00 64 xx 00 00] and "Sub-p_02: Sub-picture Stream Attributes" hex value is set to [01 00 65 xx 00 00] and the rest are zeroed out.

In VTS_PGCITI (VTS_PGC_1), "Sub-picture stream 1 status" used to be [00000000] (zeroed out by DVD-RB), "Sub-picture stream 2 status" used to be [80010100], "Sub-picture stream 3 status" used to be [80020200] and the rest of them were zeroed out, too (no. 3-11 were zeroed out by DVD-RB, and the rest were empty from the start). Now, in the new .ifo made by DVDShrink, the "Sub-picture stream 1 status" is set to [80010100] and stream 2 is set to [80020200] and the rest are zeroed out.

So basically the stream ids were kept intact and DVDShrink just cleaned up the stream attributes various places.

[blutach]

@cons

Yes, shrink does do it automatically for you. I thought of that after I went to bed :). But look here (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=206139#post206139) for "unintended consequences", particularly if you have a menu.

The upshot is to now untick logical remapping and do this stripping in IfoEdit first from now on.

And yes, what eventuated in the IFOs is what I was encouraging you to do. Sorry if I was not clear about it.


Regards

[CoNS]

Hmm, interesting reading about that option in DVDShrink...

In my case I do have a language selection menu (as a sub menu in my main menu). I haven't burned the output yet to a disc and tested it in my standalone player, but so far it looks like DVDShrink got the it right. When I play the disc outputted by DVDShrink in my software player (Media Player Classic) and I select the subtitle language I want from the language selection menu and press "resume film" in the menu, the movie starts playing with the correct subtitle language.

I'll try burning the disc tomorrow night and test it, and then I'll report back if I experience the same problem as you described with the menu.

About the IfoEdit VOB Extras method: Could you go a bit more into detail with it? How the settings should be, and if I have to do some manual copying afterwards? It seems like the function is only enabled when I load a VTS_xx_0.IFO file, not the VIDEO_TS.IFO. But how do I then get the output of the VOB Extras function to be the entire disc with all menus and titles of the original disc?

[blutach]

@cons

Burn with an RW first, ok? Or use the trace function in PgcEdit (in Step mode while watching SPRM registers, esp SPRM 2) to see what's going on.

Read about IfoEdit stream stripping here (http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/strip.html). Your strip options page should be set up like this (you can have autocopy menus unticked).

http://img15.exs.cx/img15/3117/untitled123.gif

You will need to do this for each IFO, in turn, that you want to process - stripping the streams and copying the resultant files back into your source directory and then starting afresh with a new IFO.

Tip: Move that box which says "Processing source..." so that only its title is visible - the rest should be under the taskbar. This speeds things up a lot

Regards

[CoNS]

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

When I've copied the resultant files back into the source directory, I then I have to do a Get VTS Sectors, and it should all work?

Does IfoEdit do any remapping of the streams like DVDShrink claims that it can do? So that after doing the stripping with IfoEdit, I have only the desired streams visible/selectable AND the buttons in my language menu still link to the right language?

[blutach]

@cons

See the link in my earlier post about "unintended consequences". IfoEdit will strip the streams and clean up your IFOs but does nothing to process your menu buttons. These should be checked with PgcEdit's trace, a s/w player and if editing needed, with Menuedit.

See also http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86117

Oh, BTW, VobBlanker also does a good job of stripping streams. I haven't tested its consequences on the IFOs yet, though.

Regards

[CoNS]

Ok, thanks.

But then it seems like the result of VOB Extras method in IfoEdit is very much the same as the result of the DVDShrink method: They both do the stream stripping for me and seem to take around the same time to complete it, but in both cases I probably have to use MenuEdit to edit the menu buttons in my language selection menu in order to make the buttons work properly with the new stream map...

If yes, then I think I prefer DVDShrink as it is fully automated. There's only one setting to do: Which streams are to be kept and which are to be removed, and there's no manual copying back and forth between directories and no need of a Get VTS Sectors afterwards.

EDIT: Can I also strip subtitle streams with VobBlanker?

[blutach]

I always use IfoEdit because of the remapping issue. IfoEdit does it properly, never a question. As far as Get VTS Sectors is concerned, it is only one button and less than 1/2 second. You do that only at the end of a project anyways.

But, if you use Shrink, be sure to leave the remapping unchecked and also don't do the transcoding at that time - just strip the stream (you can do this by setting everything to no compression and ignoring the warnings - you're only coding to hard disk anyway)

AFAIK, VobBlanker strips audio, not subbies. Ask jsoto.

Good luck and regards

[CoNS]

I tried yesterday to run the output I got from DVD-ReBuilder (with blanked subtitle streams, but the stream attributes still intact) through DVDShrink without checking the logical remapping option. I selected only the subtitles I wanted to keep and left the rest unchecked (the ones that were blanked with DVD-RB). But it didn't change anything when I played the result in my software player: I could still see and select all the subtitles languages in the navigation menu of Media Player Classic... :confused:

[blutach]

Were any streams greyed out?

If so, they shouldn't appear in your remote when pressing the subtitle key.

Again, my rec is to use IfoEdit for this.

[CoNS]

No, they weren't greyed out. I was able to select them and all. Only, as the streams were blanked out using DVD-RB, no actual subtitles were shown on the screen.

I've done some more testing with DVDShrink and also carefully read the thread over at Digital Video Forums, which you posted a link for, and 2COOL's thread here about the same issue.

In my software player, everything seems right when I play the disc made by DVDShrink (Full Backup with "logical remapping of enabled streams" checked). My menu buttons in the subtitle selection menu also work, i.e. point to the right streams/languages.

I'm at work right now, but when I get home tonight, I'll try to burn this disc made by DVDShrink and see if it works on my standalone SONY, too.

[CoNS]

Yep it works on my standalone, too! Menu buttons in the subtitle menu work fine, also, they point to the correct streams.

Perhaps I just got lucky, but DVDShrink (with the logical remapping option checked) did the job for me! :)

[blutach]

Glad your problem is solved then cons. :)

Lata

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by blutach
@cons

Yes, shrink does do it automatically for you. I thought of that after I went to bed :). But look here (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=206139#post206139) for "unintended consequences", particularly if you have a menu.

The upshot is to now untick logical remapping and do this stripping in IfoEdit first from now on. Seems your compatison is outdated. I've just made a test with Shrink 3.2.0.15 in Full Disc mode, with Logical Remapping ON, and I have searched for the SetSTN commands in the resulting IFOs.

I've found that all commands (including menubutton commands) are now correctly modified by Shrink to point to the right streams.

However, some little problems may still be present.

For example, an original 'SetSTN Subpic 1 ON' command that makes reference to a deleted stream is replaced by 'SetSTN', without any stream assignment.
This means that if a stream was selected before the command is executed, the old subpic will still be selected after the command. This is OK for audio stream, but IMHO, for SubPic, the command should be replaced by 'SetSTN Subpic 0 OFF', to turn off any remaining subtitle.

The second, and more important problem, is that the SetSTN command in indirect mode ('SetSTN Subpic = GPRM(X)') is not changed. Shrink is not smart enough to find and change the GPRM assignment to the new stream number. This is understandable, because it's verry difficult to do!

Unfortunately, the problems with SetSTN commands in remapping mode are not totally fixed by Shrink, and will probably never be.