4:1 pattern on a REALLY bad source

[GrofLuigi]

This is an original DVD of an old movie (not so old - 1985) and the material looks really bad - as the title says, it has 4 interlaced (and/or blended?) frames followed by 1 progressive. There are many ghosts and the chroma is lagging and/or offset, I guess due to bad transfer. On some places there are even tape dropouts...

I will post captures of the source if necessary, but I have to find a server and everything - so that could take a little time.

The purpose is ntsc - pal conversion and I know how to do it, (I have long expirience with telecide) but nothing works on this DVD - everything I throw at it makes BOTH jerks and blends, so it isn't really watchable...
Things I've tried so far:

- Plain Telecide().Decimate()
- Telecide with different guidances and parameters
- Telecide with TDeint as a postprocessor
- SmartDecimate ()
- SmartDecimate () with various bobbers
- IT ()
- RePal ()
- SmoothDeinterlace AKA Xesdeeni's script...
- Haven't tried Restore24 as I'm still trying to figure it out, but will soon

I have used all of these scripts successfully on other sources, but not on this one. I'd be glad if someone could post some advice on the nature of the source and proposed solution.

Thank you in advance!

GL

[scharfis_brain]

provide an unprocessed VOB-Sample.
at least ten seconds. the more, the better.
it should contain linear motion (long continuous pan/camera movement)

[Chainmax]

If there are blended frames, try TDeint's bobbing+BlendBob+Decimate.

[GrofLuigi]

Thank you for your replies. Unfortunately, I'm still searching for webspace, so it could take a while... Maybe someone has a suggestion for a temporary hosting site?

Will get back ASAP.

GL

[Mug Funky]

if you're converting to PAL for DVD, then you can always do a blended-field conversion. it's fine for high bitrates and CRT TV viewing (but sucks for progressive displays as it remains interlaced).

try:


mpeg2source("badNTSCDVD.d2v")
assumetff()
tdeint(1,1,cthresh=4)
converttoyuy2()
convertfps(50)
lanczos4resize(720,576)
separatefields().selectevery(4,1,2).weave()
converttoyv12(interlaced=true)


this wont bother with field-matching, but will smart bob the bad source and just blend it down to 50 fields per second. the result should be just as watchable on TV as the source.

of course, a field-matched solution would be best, but if the pattern is so bad, or there's blends, that's not going to be possible.

[GrofLuigi]

Originally posted by Mug Funky
if you're converting to PAL for DVD, then you can always do a blended-field conversion. it's fine for high bitrates and CRT TV viewing (but sucks for progressive displays as it remains interlaced).

try:


mpeg2source("badNTSCDVD.d2v")
assumetff()
tdeint(1,1,cthresh=4)
converttoyuy2()
convertfps(50)
lanczos4resize(720,576)
separatefields().selectevery(4,1,2).weave()
converttoyv12(interlaced=true)


this wont bother with field-matching, but will smart bob the bad source and just blend it down to 50 fields per second. the result should be just as watchable on TV as the source.

of course, a field-matched solution would be best, but if the pattern is so bad, or there's blends, that's not going to be possible.

Hi Mug Funky,

I tried that script also, and it looks horrible just like everything else, so I figured I'd try to crack this little bastard as it obviously has some pattern. I'm uploading stuff at a site right now, but I'm on dialup and it's very slooow (not to mention rather expensive where I am)... I will post again when it's all finished and ready.

For now, I have some questions about this script (I used it several times), but I can't find the exact thread (always happens when you need something urgently). :)

1. I use DGbob () or KernelBob () or TDeint () arbitrarily and can't see the difference between them (too lazy to compare clips by substraction, and frame by frame or stacking seem same to me). I like KernelBob because it's fastest, but do you recommend TDeint? What does "cthresh" do? In the helpfile it says "Going lower then 6 or higher then 12 is not recommended."

2. For this purpose (standards conversion), should I set "sharp=true" or "=false" with bobbers? I think I've seen examples/recommendations of both.

3. I think that the result of this script is not properly interlaced, i.e. I can see no "combs". Believe it or not, I still haven't seen it on an interlaced player, but on my TVOut it definitely doesn't show wiggling/artefacts like on interlaced source. I remember a thread about this (going progresive to interlaced), but can't find it (again!) and I think there was no conclusion... (if we let aside the double rate for a moment).

OK, I see this is getting longish, so I'll stop for now...

GL

[GrofLuigi]

Hi again!

Sorry for the delay, but I've finally managed to put some files on a site. Unfortunately, very short ones, but either the server doesn't allow large attachments, or my dialup connection keeps timing out...

There you will find:

A short clip with motion - here (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Compressed_with_XVid.rar) (very little gain from .RAR compression, but better than nothing). :)

I hope i chose a good one, although it is not very typical of this movie (it's mostly indoors and with little motion).

Maybe it came out a little overcompressed, so combs are not easily visible, but they are present at every frame that appears blended (if you try harder you will see them). I will keep trying to upload a larger clip...

Another things I've noticed are that cuts span through three frames and chroma is borked at the left and right edge (as you can see from the clip). Also, there are visible "ghosts" like bad antenna reception of a TV signal. I won't even mention the noise...

So, clearly this is a bad transfer, but the question is - can something be done about it?

AFAIK, all programs and plugins I use are at their latest versions. Most important: VDubMod 1.5.10.1, AviSynt 2.55 and DGDecode 1.0.12a.

Can't think of anything more...

GL

[GrofLuigi]

Me again!

(and I hate it when I see consecutive posts from the same person, but I think it's justified in this case, isn't it?) ;)

The website is acting strangely, so maybe it's better to go there directly:

http://grof.freeserverhost.com/

If it asks for username/password, it's grof/grof.

While I was at it, I put another clip from a similar movie (a LITTLE less horrible, but still very bad): http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Movie2.rar
Also with Anthony Hopkins at younger age, bought at a same store. Also makes problems with telecide, also borked chroma (which can be seen at this screenshot: http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Hopkins.rar). Notice the green colour on the left edge of his face, and on the right is purple (not very obvious here, but look at his ear and you'll see my point).
I've also put the .d2v scripts on the site:

- From the first DVD - http://grof.freeserverhost.com/1.rar
- And from the second - http://grof.freeserverhost.com/2.rar

Again, I'd appreciate some expert advice on the nature of the clips and proposal on solution from the gurus that hang around here. :)

GL

[Mug Funky]

i can't seem to access any of it. the host says the page doesn't exist. strange.

i look forward to seeing a sample, though :)

[lamer_de]

You can use yousendit.com to store files for free over a period of 1 week or 25 downloads (approx). Maximum upload size is 1GB, which should be enough for your purpose ;)

CU,
lamer_de

[GrofLuigi]

Really strange, the files are there, i just downloaded them by FTP. But, browser also reports "this page is missing" when I open the large files. Smaller files are OK.

Will keep trying... also on yousendit.

GL

[GrofLuigi]

Hopefully, fixed the links. The files were there all the time, but apparently the server plays smart and bans downloading large .rar files. So I simply renamed them to .txt and all is working at my end (I hope it doesn't check the IP address...)

So here are the files:

few frames, rename to .rar (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Compressed_with_XVid.txt)
a little more frames, change extension... you know (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Compressed_with_XVid-original.txt) :)
few frames of the second DVD (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Movie2.txt)
screenshot from the second DVD (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/Hopkins.rar)
DgDecode script of the first DVD (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/1.rar)
DgDecode script of the second DVD (http://grof.freeserverhost.com/2.rar)

And again, if it still doesn't work, please go directly to:

http://grof.freeserverhost.com

It should give you the list of files.

Hope I didn't bore everybody to death! :)

GL

[Mug Funky]

freeserverhost is messing with me.

it says the file is 6.6 megs, then downloads continuously. i stopped it at 11 megs when i realised it'd probably go on forever until i maxed out my cable account for the month.

could you find somewhere else to put it?

[GrofLuigi]

Originally posted by Mug Funky
freeserverhost is messing with me.

...

could you find somewhere else to put it?

Only the largest file (http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=01860ADD6F97B21D18E105D8EBDFB71E)

If this doesn't work, the Gods of Internet definitely hate me. :)

GL

[vhelp]

Hi guys.

@ Grof ...

The (your) strange "url string" is working :) ...finally !
I feel your pain. After waiting since Nov 20th, finally, hehe.

Anyways. The 6.7mb file is d/l 'ing.

OT question ...

I don't have xVid codec. But, I was wondering, if anyone knows the actual
DLL file that is called, to open this clip (any clips) I can get it to open
(using a technque in the .ini file) .. (but w/out having to resort to D/L'ing
Xvid and installing - it cases my system a mess, big-time) Anyways.
I would be grateful.

Thanks again,
-vhelp

[scharfis_brain]

your sample shows a 23.976fps progressive FILM being weirdly blended into 59.94 fields per second.

this script:


loadplugin("d:\x\tdeint.dll")

avisource("xvid.avi")
assumetff()
tdeint(mode=1,type=2)
selectevery(5,1,3)

gave me a nice, smooth 23.976fps progressive video of your sample.

your sample has the following patter after

applying
avisource("").assumetff().bob()

o d b | o b o d b | o b o d b | o d o d b .....

o - original, clean frame
d - duplicate of clean frame
b - blend of two neighboring frames
| - separate cycles

this shows, that every 5 fields contain 2 clean fields.
so we just need to select the good ones.

[GrofLuigi]

@ scharfis_brain:
Thank you, will try your script as soon as possible!
Note: when I look at it closer, the principle seems similar to the script posted above, only the SelectEvery is the trick...
So this is the "knowledge" I miss... I never thought "outside" of Telecide! :rolleyes:

@ vhelp:
Maybe this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79967&highlight=MPlayer) could help? Or any other player that has it's own codecs and don't rely on external one? (I don't know if another one actually exists... but I haven't tried all the players out there).
Otherwise, I don't know why would xvid give you any problems. In fact, I regard it as the most "trouble-free" codec ever. :p

GL

[scharfis_brain]

the script above is a simple NTSC-> PAL conversion, which would have made your video completely blended and smeared.

if you have problems setting up the selectevery numbers (they NEED to be changed for the whole movie, because the pattern is offsetted!)

you maybe want to try restore24.
it is slower and mat tend to produce some jerks, but it doesn't require 'user interaction' for finding correct frames.

there, you have to use

a=r24kernelbob()
b=matchbob()
restore24(a,b,24,60)

[GrofLuigi]

Originally posted by scharfis_brain
the script above is a simple NTSC-> PAL conversion, which would have made your video completely blended and smeared.

if you have problems setting up the selectevery numbers (they NEED to be changed for the whole movie, because the pattern is offsetted!)

you maybe want to try restore24.
it is slower and mat tend to produce some jerks, but it doesn't require 'user interaction' for finding correct frames.

there, you have to use

a=r24kernelbob()
b=matchbob()
restore24(a,b,24,60)

I tried Restore24 (exactly as above) and it doesn't seem "right"... Maybe a little hard to explain, but it has that "deinterlaced" look - like if there is an object in motion, there are no lines behind it (motion blur?), just the smeared object... So maybe R24 is doing it's job too good? ;)
Didn't do an encode with R24, just preview in VDMod because it was veeery slow, and besides, the source is so messed up that IMO nothing can help it...

Ended up doing a straight NTSC-PAL conversion with KernelBob.Convertfps(50).SelectEvery(4,0,3) since it gave me the smoothest motion and it was fastest... I think the result would be the most similar to what esteemed NTSC users see on their TV's. :)

That's it, I've had enough of this DVD... Thanks again scharfis_brain and everybody else.

GL